My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[nsxguy]

> @Bigmean said:

>

> Why can no one wrap their head around the fact that cbs don’t make bad shots good and blades don’t make small misses terrible and that whatever minimal differences between 2 confirming irons **has no effect on an actual score** which is mostly determined by swings, decision making, luck of when and how missed happen, and your mind.

 

Unfortunately neither you (nor I) will EVER be able to prove (or disprove) that.

 

So bottom line it's just your opinion against others with an opposite opinion.

[chisag]

"I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

 

... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

[cliffhanger]

> @chisag said:

> "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

>

> ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

 

i don't believe i have it backwards at all. Several players on this thread have alluded to being able to "nut" their current gamer CB irons and not the dreaded MB. With regards to your point on your results, that can't be disputed as they belong to you, and while they are relevant, they are not relevant to everyone. Thats my point. We share our successes and failures however we can't generalize everyone because of them. Remember "motor skills" and everyone is different when it comes to the ability to repeat something. We all fail and succeed at different levels... that cannot be disputed.

[mahonie]

> @chisag said:

> "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

>

> ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

 

I’m not surprised you find a difference...a toe strike with a 790 is the same as a complete miss with an MB...boy they have a big head...almost as big as the J40 DPC ;-)

 

[cliffhanger]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> >** I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player.** They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that **if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**.

> >

> > If we are talking averages thats fine...

>

> Disclaimer - I didn't see pinestreet's post.

>

> You have a propensity for "moving the goalposts" so I'll just ask you this.

>

> When did the thread become about your "_**an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player**_" ? I think I missed that. Can you kindly point it out to me ?

>

> I would have thought the thread was mainly about your "_**if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**_"

>

> TIA

 

Based on my statements i am not actually "moving the goalposts", i am saying the goalposts are located in the same spot on every club (center of the face) and ask the question of why is it so hard to hit it in the center of the face (between the goalposts) on one, and yet it isn't happening on another. So if i am reading everyone's statements correctly which i believe i have, it is the group defending the use of CB's as the ones who are in fact "moving the goalposts" to justify their position by saying the goalposts are wider apart and thus easier to hit between. I will not dispute that a wider or longer face will make it easier to strike the face, i am arguing that a wider or longer face doesn't make it easier to hit the middle of the face and that many golfers really don't know if they are actually striking where they think the are... some low cappers included.

 

As far as when this thread became about the point of "an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player"... it always has been about this... The CB group just doesn't talk about it because it goes into areas that you are not willing to discuss as per your answer to my previous post. It makes it hard to go there and still justify your position. So by saying you don't have success with an MB i ask why? if you can have success with your CB's then why can't that success be transferred to another club regardless of its design? Unless you aren't making as good of contact with your CB's and thus it explains why the MB's are so difficult to hit. Because at the end of the day... the goalposts are in the same spot right?

 

So if a person can hit the center of the face on a CB, GI, whatever... they should and in some cases can hit an MB and have success with them due to their motor skills. All relevant to the conversation.

 

I am not arguing that every mid cap player can improve with MB's, however some can and we have to accept that (liking it or not).

[bodhi555]

> @chisag said:

> "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

>

> ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

 

I think there is a slight difference in attitude at play here. Some people think that if their miss is out of toe then they should get some irons that will help, whereas others think that maybe they should just stop hitting it out of the toe. I'm very much in the second camp, so far as after 15 years of playing MBs I never hit it out of the toe. I might catch it fat occasionally, but toe hits aren't something I concern myself with - and if toe hits aren't really your miss, I'd stick with a set of MBs.

 

As frankly, they are just better imo. I find the MBs I play now longer, more accurate and easier to move than any CBs I've played.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @mahonie said:

> > @chisag said:

> > "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

> >

> > ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

>

> I’m not surprised you find a difference...a toe strike with a 790 is the same as a complete miss with an MB...boy they have a big head...almost as big as the J40 DPC ;-)

>

 

Yep! No offset, large head with tons of weight. I've always said they are in the top two iron designs of all time because they look like a blade at address but have all the forgiveness of a CB. The only other i've found is non-conforming (the Adams a4).

 

j40 DPC = best iron in existence.

 

IMO, IMO, IMO.

[BiggErn]

> @mahonie said:

> > @chisag said:

> > "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

> >

> > ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

>

> I’m not surprised you find a difference...a toe strike with a 790 is the same as a complete miss with an MB...boy they have a big head...almost as big as the J40 DPC ;-)

>

 

Actually the 790 head is smaller than the DPC head. The 790 head is closer to the AP2.

[BiggErn]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @chisag said:

> > "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

> >

> > ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

>

> i don't believe i have it backwards at all. Several players on this thread have alluded to being able to "nut" their current gamer CB irons and not the dreaded MB. With regards to your point on your results, that can't be disputed as they belong to you, and while they are relevant, they are not relevant to everyone. Thats my point. We share our successes and failures however we can't generalize everyone because of them. Remember "motor skills" and everyone is different when it comes to the ability to repeat something. We all fail and succeed at different levels... that cannot be disputed.

 

Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

[Bigmean]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Bigmean said:

> >

> > Why can no one wrap their head around the fact that cbs don’t make bad shots good and blades don’t make small misses terrible and that whatever minimal differences between 2 confirming irons **has no effect on an actual score** which is mostly determined by swings, decision making, luck of when and how missed happen, and your mind.

>

> Unfortunately neither you (nor I) will EVER be able to prove (or disprove) that.

>

> So bottom line it's just your opinion against others with an opposite opinion.

 

 

I know we are opposite sides of the fence here, but credit where due for sure, this is also winning the thread, and by far the most concise answer to all the blades/CB banter here. Well said.

 

[chisag]

> @BiggErn said:

> Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

 

... I don't believe anyone said that or anyone even thinks that. Those of us that prefer CB's do so because they make our misses better. It really is that simple. Although we could all just take 555's advice and just not miss the center LOL. I have been playing for 40 years and have a + index and I most certainly wish I could hit the center every time but experience and millions of balls later I know that just isn't gonna happen every time I play.

 

[BiggErn]

> @chisag said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

>

> ... I don't believe anyone said that or anyone even thinks that. Those of us that prefer CB's do so because they make our misses better. It really is that simple. Although we could all just take 555's advice and just not miss the center LOL. I have been playing for 40 years and have a + index and I most certainly wish I could hit the center every time but experience and millions of balls later I now that just isn't gonna happen every time I play.

>

 

I agree that it is that simple. Their comparisons are always grossly exaggerated. I don’t think they truly appreciate how a world class ball striker using MBs makes contact with the ball and virtually never miss. That’s not to say a golfer of your skill level couldn’t use MBs and play well but admittedly you know that sometimes you miss and a more forgiving club gives you a better result where an MB would not. That might be only 1-3 shots per round but that doesn’t mean it will only cost you 1-3 strokes.

[cliffhanger]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

> > >

> > > ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

> >

> > i don't believe i have it backwards at all. Several players on this thread have alluded to being able to "nut" their current gamer CB irons and not the dreaded MB. With regards to your point on your results, that can't be disputed as they belong to you, and while they are relevant, they are not relevant to everyone. Thats my point. We share our successes and failures however we can't generalize everyone because of them. Remember "motor skills" and everyone is different when it comes to the ability to repeat something. We all fail and succeed at different levels... that cannot be disputed.

>

> Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

 

read away sir. Its there.

[cliffhanger]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @chisag said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

> >

> > ... I don't believe anyone said that or anyone even thinks that. Those of us that prefer CB's do so because they make our misses better. It really is that simple. Although we could all just take 555's advice and just not miss the center LOL. I have been playing for 40 years and have a + index and I most certainly wish I could hit the center every time but experience and millions of balls later I now that just isn't gonna happen every time I play.

> >

>

> I agree that it is that simple. Their comparisons are always grossly exaggerated. I don’t think they truly appreciate how a world class ball striker using MBs makes contact with the ball and virtually never miss. That’s not to say a golfer of your skill level couldn’t use MBs and play well but admittedly you know that sometimes you miss and a more forgiving club gives you a better result where an MB would not. That might be only 1-3 shots per round but that doesn’t mean it will only cost you 1-3 strokes.

 

 

thats the beauty of golf... it may only be 1-3 shots per round and then again it may cost you 10-12 shots per round. In one case its very apparent that you are playing the wrong gear and in the other case its not so cut and dry. This applies for golfers of all skill levels though and not just the better player.

[BiggErn]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

> > >

> > > ... I don't believe anyone said that or anyone even thinks that. Those of us that prefer CB's do so because they make our misses better. It really is that simple. Although we could all just take 555's advice and just not miss the center LOL. I have been playing for 40 years and have a + index and I most certainly wish I could hit the center every time but experience and millions of balls later I now that just isn't gonna happen every time I play.

> > >

> >

> > I agree that it is that simple. Their comparisons are always grossly exaggerated. I don’t think they truly appreciate how a world class ball striker using MBs makes contact with the ball and virtually never miss. That’s not to say a golfer of your skill level couldn’t use MBs and play well but admittedly you know that sometimes you miss and a more forgiving club gives you a better result where an MB would not. That might be only 1-3 shots per round but that doesn’t mean it will only cost you 1-3 strokes.

>

>

> thats the beauty of golf... it may only be 1-3 shots per round and then again it may cost you 10-12 shots per round. In one case its very apparent that you are playing the wrong gear and in the other case its not so cut and dry. This applies for golfers of all skill levels though and not just the better player.

 

If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

[cliffhanger]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @chisag said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > Who has said they could “nut” a CB but not a MB?

> > > >

> > > > ... I don't believe anyone said that or anyone even thinks that. Those of us that prefer CB's do so because they make our misses better. It really is that simple. Although we could all just take 555's advice and just not miss the center LOL. I have been playing for 40 years and have a + index and I most certainly wish I could hit the center every time but experience and millions of balls later I now that just isn't gonna happen every time I play.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I agree that it is that simple. Their comparisons are always grossly exaggerated. I don’t think they truly appreciate how a world class ball striker using MBs makes contact with the ball and virtually never miss. That’s not to say a golfer of your skill level couldn’t use MBs and play well but admittedly you know that sometimes you miss and a more forgiving club gives you a better result where an MB would not. That might be only 1-3 shots per round but that doesn’t mean it will only cost you 1-3 strokes.

> >

> >

> > thats the beauty of golf... it may only be 1-3 shots per round and then again it may cost you 10-12 shots per round. In one case its very apparent that you are playing the wrong gear and in the other case its not so cut and dry. This applies for golfers of all skill levels though and not just the better player.

>

> If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

 

i believe thats what i said. we agree!!! yes... we agree!!

[cliffhanger]

have a great day fellas... i have a putter dilemma to sort out... i thought i had it sorted out with my selection of the TP Mullen 2... however i have several putters that have entered the conversation.

[chisag]

> @mahonie said:

m not surprised you find a difference...a toe strike with a 790 is the same as a complete miss with an MB...boy they have a big head...almost as big as the J40 DPC ;-)

>

 

... I have been playing almost every day in Phoenix all winter and the greens out here are so hard, most courses don't even show a ball mark on the green. So I have been paying my Cobra Forged Tours because I can use the extra spin. Soft greens and windy conditions in Chicago are perfect for the P790's but not so much out here in the desert.

 

[tannyhoban]

> @BMC said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > > @BMC said:

> > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > @dpb5031

> > > > In places where we have circumstantial evidence we have to accept a narrative. I don't believe your narrative that it's all marketing. There are logical wrinkles there which I pointed out. It's not the interest of OEMs to do it the hard way if casting would be just as good. At the end of the day, clubs aren't sold based on the fact they have "1025" carbon steel. Very few people know that. A person will simply say "X feels better than Y." I have no reason to believe cast blade irons would somehow be impossible to sell because people are obsessed with the details of forging. I don't buy that. Advertising does not control as you're describing. It's a cop out argument IMHO.

> > > >

> > > > Also, you keep saying "most of the mass behind the sweet spot" when obviously that isn't true. A blade doesn't clump the mass behind the sweet spot at all. The muscle extends rather uniformly from heel to toe, not to mention the thickness of the club varies from the sole to the top-line going from thicker at the bottom to thinner at the top with a slight drop-off near the middle where the top of the muscle ends.

> > > >

> > > > So I don't quite see why you're so obsessed with this notion that placing mass close to the CG results in better feel. What exactly is your reasoning for saying that? If you're saying there is wide-spread anecdotal evidence based on what people say, well, you can't criticize that line of reasoning in the case of forged vs cast, can you?

> > > >

> > > > Again, we're not metallurgists so to speak as though all forgings are the same or all castings are the same is probably not safe. I just know that when two companies make clubs which are really close to being the same in geometry (i.e. Mizuno blades versus Titleist blades) and yet people seem to prefer the form in feel, there might be something to the material argument.

> > > >

> > > > I prefer not to have uneducated debates. I'm fine leaving it there. A certain percentage of cast clubs may rival the feel or forged. I just don't have the answer to whether that's true, let alone exactly why.

> > > These are my 1990 VIPs. They're cast and have a substantial muscle behind the sweet spot. I've owned many true blades, and the cast blades feel as good as any of the forged ones I've played.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You are mistaken. From the Macgregor Golf History - Catalogs those 1990s are defintely forged.

> You may be right, I didn't get them new. But, according to "Ironfinder"...1990-1993

> Satin finish. Investment cast stainless steel head. Muscleback design. Diamond pattern on face.

>

 

No may to it. I am right. I have the cb jnp same year. Forged.

[Nard_S]

> @BiggErn said:

> If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

 

That's a standard the carded Tour guys do not even live up to. It's quite liberating to watch laggards at PGA events hit mid irons into greens, they miss a lot and by a lot. Heck Rory cannot get it done with wedge plenty of times. They make mistakes at a much higher average than 1-3. Tour GIR average is 13, theres guys below 10. Scratch amateur averages 9-10 on puny-muni. So I never sweat mis hits and get back on track much faster appreciating that reality.

 

[nsxguy]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> >** I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player.** They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that **if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**.

> >

> > If we are talking averages thats fine...

>

> Disclaimer - I didn't see pinestreet's post.

>

> You have a propensity for "moving the goalposts" so I'll just ask you this.

>

> When did the thread become about your "_**an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player**_" ? I think I missed that. Can you kindly point it out to me ?

>

> I would have thought the thread was mainly about your "_**if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**_"

>

> TIA

 

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > >** I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player.** They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that **if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**.

> > >

> > > If we are talking averages thats fine...

> >

> > Disclaimer - I didn't see pinestreet's post.

> >

> > You have a propensity for "moving the goalposts" so I'll just ask you this.

> >

> > When did the thread become about your "_**an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player**_" ? I think I missed that. Can you kindly point it out to me ?

> >

> > I would have thought the thread was mainly about your "_**if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**_"

> >

> > TIA

>

> Based on my statements i am not actually "moving the goalposts", i am saying the goalposts are located in the same spot on every club (center of the face) and ask the question of why is it so hard to hit it in the center of the face (between the goalposts) on one, and yet it isn't happening on another. So if i am reading everyone's statements correctly which i believe i have, it is the group defending the use of CB's as the ones who are in fact "moving the goalposts" to justify their position by saying the goalposts are wider apart and thus easier to hit between. I will not dispute that a wider or longer face will make it easier to strike the face, i am arguing that a wider or longer face doesn't make it easier to hit the middle of the face and that many golfers really don't know if they are actually striking where they think the are... some low cappers included.

>

> **As far as when this thread became about the point of "an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player"... it always has been about this.**.. The CB group just doesn't talk about it because it goes into areas that you are not willing to discuss as per your answer to my previous post. It makes it hard to go there and still justify your position. So by saying you don't have success with an MB i ask why? if you can have success with your CB's then why can't that success be transferred to another club regardless of its design? **Unless you aren't making as good of contact with your CB's and thus it explains why the MB's are so difficult to hit.** Because at the end of the day... the goalposts are in the same spot right?

>

> So if a person can hit the center of the face on a CB, GI, whatever... they should and in some cases can hit an MB and have success with them due to their motor skills. All relevant to the conversation.

>

> I am not arguing that every mid cap player can improve with MB's, however some can and we have to accept that (liking it or not).

 

Ummm, sorry but no, the thread HASN'T always been about this. You just made an alternate argument (hence the moving the goalpost). The thread, as usual, is about blades vs. CBs and who would benefit more from playing,,,,,,, something else.

 

So the answer to my question then is NOBODY has said "_an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player_". Thanks for confirming by your non-answer. So yes, you ARE moving the goalposts (nice play on words BTW) with your own alternate argument.

 

Oh, and thanks for your admission BTW " _if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him_"

 

As well as your "**_Unless you aren't making as good of contact with your CB's and thus it explains why the MB's are so difficult to hit_**". Yes, that absolutely explains why higher handicappers typically shouldn't be gaming MBs. After all, how many 27 handicappers can shape it both ways at will ? I thank you very much.

 

Finally WE agree - One will get a better result on mishits with the CB than the MB.

 

Glad we finally straightened that out. I knew you'd eventually come around.

 

Hope you made out well with your putting today.

 

 

 

[gbartko]

whether you prefer blades or cb always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else....

[mahonie]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

> > >

> > > ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

> >

> > I’m not surprised you find a difference...a toe strike with a 790 is the same as a complete miss with an MB...boy they have a big head...almost as big as the J40 DPC ;-)

> >

>

> Yep! No offset, large head with tons of weight. I've always said they are in the top two iron designs of all time because they look like a blade at address but have all the forgiveness of a CB. The only other i've found is non-conforming (the Adams a4).

>

> j40 DPC = best iron in existence.

>

> IMO, IMO, IMO.

This is why I love golf...different people’s perspective is what makes the game so great. To you the J40 DPC looks like a blade...to me it looks like an ice hockey stick. In all honesty I would be intimidated putting that clubhead behind a ball as the ball would appear to be the size of a marble to me and I would have no confidence in swinging at it and getting it off the ground, particularly on the tight lies at my course. FWIW my feeling is that anyone who could score well with the J40 DPCs in the bag would find a set of MBs an absolute doddle to hit in comparison unless every shot was coming out of the toe.

 

[BiggErn]

> @Nard_S said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

>

> That's a standard the carded Tour guys do not even live up to. It's quite liberating to watch laggards at PGA events hit mid irons into greens, they miss a lot and by a lot. Heck Rory cannot get it done with wedge plenty of times. They make mistakes at a much higher average than 1-3. Tour GIR average is 13, theres guys below 10. Scratch amateur averages 9-10 on puny-muni. So I never sweat mis hits and get back on track much faster appreciating that reality.

>

 

Another irrational excuse. You can hit the ball solid and still hit it offline or have not go exactly where you wanted. I guess some people will just never comprehend.

[Nard_S]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

> >

> > That's a standard the carded Tour guys do not even live up to. It's quite liberating to watch laggards at PGA events hit mid irons into greens, they miss a lot and by a lot. Heck Rory cannot get it done with wedge plenty of times. They make mistakes at a much higher average than 1-3. Tour GIR average is 13, theres guys below 10. Scratch amateur averages 9-10 on puny-muni. So I never sweat mis hits and get back on track much faster appreciating that reality.

> >

>

> Another irrational excuse. You can hit the ball solid and still hit it offline or have not go exactly where you wanted. I guess some people will just never comprehend.

 

Apparently you do not comprehend basic math, statistics and reality.

 

[BiggErn]

> @Nard_S said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

> > >

> > > That's a standard the carded Tour guys do not even live up to. It's quite liberating to watch laggards at PGA events hit mid irons into greens, they miss a lot and by a lot. Heck Rory cannot get it done with wedge plenty of times. They make mistakes at a much higher average than 1-3. Tour GIR average is 13, theres guys below 10. Scratch amateur averages 9-10 on puny-muni. So I never sweat mis hits and get back on track much faster appreciating that reality.

> > >

> >

> > Another irrational excuse. You can hit the ball solid and still hit it offline or have not go exactly where you wanted. I guess some people will just never comprehend.

>

> Apparently you do not comprehend basic math, statistics and reality.

>

 

How so? Hitting the ball pure doesn’t mean you hit it exact where you want but it is definitely a prerequisite if using an MB. You can still hit bad shots and be a world class ball striker. I guess since you can hit bad shots all over the face then the club doesn’t matter. Right? Lol

[revanant]

I think this has been a good thread. The basic question isn’t “cb vs blades” or “forged vs cast.”

 

It’s “can playing or practicing with blades offer benefits to mid-high handicappers.” And the thread has shown that the answer is yes—there are players out there who benefit from practicing or playing blades, and that people shouldn’t be afraid to try or experiment with them.

[platgof]

When I started golf I had a thrown together set of irons, and the McGregor mb was clearly my favorite. It just felt so good and the ball would just dance on the green. The feel was amazing. I would love to try out a set of Hogans with graphite shafts to see what they feel like, because their design is so neat.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @mahonie said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @chisag said:

> > > > "I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him."

> > > >

> > > > ... You seem to have this completely backwards. Golfers don't play CB's because they can hit the center with them but can't hit the center on an MB. They play them because they know they can't hit the center and absolutely realize the club head saves them. My miss is a little on the toe and a bad miss is even more on the toe. CB's make a huge difference in those strikes for me, especially in the long irons. I have days where I am striping it all round long and could use any iron with very little, if any difference. But I also have days where my swing is just a little off and ball striking is inconsistent and on those days my iron choice will most definitely make difference in my score.

> > >

> > > I’m not surprised you find a difference...a toe strike with a 790 is the same as a complete miss with an MB...boy they have a big head...almost as big as the J40 DPC ;-)

> > >

> >

> > Yep! No offset, large head with tons of weight. I've always said they are in the top two iron designs of all time because they look like a blade at address but have all the forgiveness of a CB. The only other i've found is non-conforming (the Adams a4).

> >

> > j40 DPC = best iron in existence.

> >

> > IMO, IMO, IMO.

> This is why I love golf...different people’s perspective is what makes the game so great. To you the J40 DPC looks like a blade...to me it looks like an ice hockey stick. In all honesty I would be intimidated putting that clubhead behind a ball as the ball would appear to be the size of a marble to me and I would have no confidence in swinging at it and getting it off the ground, particularly on the tight lies at my course. FWIW my feeling is that anyone who could score well with the J40 DPCs in the bag would find a set of MBs an absolute doddle to hit in comparison unless every shot was coming out of the toe.

>

Most of my club head speed comes from playing tennis at a high level in another life, so I love the big look of the DPC heads. And my miss is a toe miss virtually 95% of the time. I either spin out with my L hip or drop my R shoulder as a result of not getting forward enough fast enough. Both of those result in a toe hit (just one with toe closed and one with it open). I searched through a whole lot of iron sets before the DPC and a lot have tried to kick it out. I even (As documented by another thread) paid through the nose for that elusive actual-DPC (NOT just a j40 CB) 3 iron. All my other equipment is "meh" my DPCs are the way to go.

We are obviously on opposite sides of this argument. My contention is that going out and finding that you like the feel of something and staying with it is fine but not optimal. You can figure out what your miss is using trackman, video and powder and then get the iron(s) that fit that miss. Chances are, for most of us, that will not be a blade.

Its a spectrum. Its not all blades suck and all CBs rule. There could very easily be a blade better than a CB but if a high cap truly does the work he will come out with a CB/SGI answer way more often than a blade answer.

The huge head on the DPCs fixes my overwhelmingly predominant miss. Doesn't do much for me occasionally thinning the short irons, though.

Again, IMO.

 

[Nard_S]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > If you mishit more than 1-3 iron shots per round then it’s pretty cut and dry.

> > > >

> > > > That's a standard the carded Tour guys do not even live up to. It's quite liberating to watch laggards at PGA events hit mid irons into greens, they miss a lot and by a lot. Heck Rory cannot get it done with wedge plenty of times. They make mistakes at a much higher average than 1-3. Tour GIR average is 13, theres guys below 10. Scratch amateur averages 9-10 on puny-muni. So I never sweat mis hits and get back on track much faster appreciating that reality.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Another irrational excuse. You can hit the ball solid and still hit it offline or have not go exactly where you wanted. I guess some people will just never comprehend.

> >

> > Apparently you do not comprehend basic math, statistics and reality.

> >

>

> How so? Hitting the ball pure doesn’t mean you hit it exact where you want but it is definitely a prerequisite if using an MB. You can still hit bad shots and be a world class ball striker. I guess since you can hit bad shots all over the face then the club doesn’t matter. Right? Lol

 

Hitting the ball exactly where you want it is why you're better off with an MB, but you would not know that because you hold on to this fantasy bullxxxx that every pass has to be nutted in a pea size sweet spot or you'll pee your pants as the ball falls in the bunker. Be my guest, follow your path. Good luck with that. I've had mine going another route.