Cameron Champ lost his mojo

[QuigleyDU]

Distance off the tee is far from the only thing that matters when it comes to golf.

[ItIsJack]

Distance is extremely important when you are accurate like Champ is. He is also one of the best putters in the world. Imo he just needs to improve his shots from around the green to average to become one of the top players on tour. Some people act like he is just a long driver that can’t golf but that is not true.

[nsxguy]

> @ItIsJack said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > > @Railroading13 said:

> > > > The game will always be about how often you get the ball up and down from 150 yards and in - everything else - distance... is just hype

> > >

> > > Any stats to back this up?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Just common sense. You can hit it in the weeds and get up and down and beat anybody. Or you can hit it in the fairway , hit greens and 2-3 putt only and beat nobody.

>

> **There is an easy arrgument to make that driving is the most important part of shooting lower scores on tour.** Champ is already one of the best in this category and has the potential to dominate SG off the tee for the future. If he can stay healthy he will likely have a great career.

 

If it's so easy, why didn't you make it ?

[One Putter]

Everyone always goes gaga over the new guy who hits it forever, and this guy actually won an event so he definitely warranted some attention, but any time i've watched him tee it up i haven't been impressed.

[bladehunter]

> @ItIsJack said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > > @Railroading13 said:

> > > > The game will always be about how often you get the ball up and down from 150 yards and in - everything else - distance... is just hype

> > >

> > > Any stats to back this up?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Just common sense. You can hit it in the weeds and get up and down and beat anybody. Or you can hit it in the fairway , hit greens and 2-3 putt only and beat nobody.

>

> There is an easy arrgument to make that driving is the most important part of shooting lower scores on tour. Champ is already one of the best in this category and has the potential to dominate SG off the tee for the future. If he can stay healthy he will likely have a great career.

 

Driving yes. As in 290 down the middle. After that it becomes getting up and down from 150 as said. If you can’t scramble and putt. You are a long drive sideshow. I’m not at all calling champ that. I’m just arguing the “ he hits it long so he will dominate “ insinuation is false.

[ItIsJack]

If you take the top 5 players in SG-off-the-tee their average ranking in SG-total is 14th. If you take the top 15 players the average is 24th.

If you take the top 5 players in SG-around the green their average ranking in SG-total is 39th. If you take the top 15 then it’s 51st.

Driving is very important and hitting straight 320 instead of 290 is one of the ways the top players separate themselves from the average tour player. Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. On top of that he is an elite putter. Worth the hype imo.

[bladehunter]

> @ItIsJack said:

> If you take the top 5 players in SG-off-the-tee their average ranking in SG-total is 14th. If you take the top 15 players the average is 24th.

> If you take the top 5 players in SG-around the green their average ranking in SG-total is 39th. If you take the top 15 then it’s 51st.

> Driving is very important and hitting straight 320 instead of 290 is one of the ways the top players separate themselves from the average tour player. Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. On top of that he is an elite putter. Worth the hype imo.

 

Then why haven’t the 5-6 up and coming players who average 310 plus off the tee done anything ? When will this domination engage? Answer. When they match scoring with the driving. Which is exactly what I said.

[Vardon Grip]

Can you really write him off if you never wrote him in in the first place?

 

 

[Kevinnz]

His mentality is simply not there. Watched his swings earlier in the season where he found quite some consistency which has faded since March. He seems not in trust of his full swing for some reason.

Isnt this similar to Tiger in his days with sean?

 

Get another coach.

[grm24]

> @ItIsJack said:

> Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. **On top of that he is an elite putter**.

Champ is currently ranked 192nd out of 209 players in putts per round on the PGA Tour. That's not elite.

 

 

[CrushSticks]

> @ksgolfcoach said:

> > @Railroading13 said:

> > The game will always be about how often you get the ball up and down from 150 yards and in - everything else - distance... is just hype

>

> Any stats to back this up?

>

>

Mark Broadie was on NLU podcast and said, basically, that based on all of his research the one thing that points to sustained high level play and has the most impact on scoring is shots from 125-175. Players who gain the most strokes on those shots year over year are generally the best players on tour. I kind of backed up both of your arguments with that, but hey. I’m here to assist.

 

[bladehunter]

> @CrushSticks said:

> > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > @Railroading13 said:

> > > The game will always be about how often you get the ball up and down from 150 yards and in - everything else - distance... is just hype

> >

> > Any stats to back this up?

> >

> >

> Mark Broadie was on NLU podcast and said, basically, that based on all of his research the one thing that points to sustained high level play and has the most impact on scoring is shots from 125-175. Players who gain the most strokes on those shots year over year are generally the best players on tour. I kind of backed up both of your arguments with that, but hey. I’m here to assist.

>

 

What about the Pelz study that Phil just mentioned in the video before Augusta. He cites that if you add 10 % gain for every stat for the best players in the game , each stat shows lower scores except longer off the tee. only 1 course on earth shows a lower scores for a gain off the tee of 10% longer. Augusta national.

 

[QuigleyDU]

Personally, for my very mediocre game, I find driving to be very important in relation to my score. But, if the rest of my game was better it may be less important. I think Champs game over all is very similar to mine just at a higher level. He hits it very long, and if he is in the fairway he can take off. But, the course during the regular season are much more difficult, much tighter and much less forgiving to minor errors than that of the silly season. I would think he will be able to adjust at some point. If not then he will be gone and it wont really matter much. I would love to him and other young guys take off. I think it would be good for the entertainment of the game to get some more interesting people out there.

 

 

[BeerPerHole]

I think the big, unspoken element a person must have to make it on tour is "sticktoitiveness". Is that a word? Since I've learned more about the sport and watched some young uns near me show real talent I can't help but think about how those guys on tour must be able to live from a suitcase, travel all the time, etc...all this while playing at such an extremely high level. I think Champ is great to watch and I hope he sticks in there. Also, I was concerned to hear of a back injury. Can't imagine what it must feel like to hit a ball that far... I also couldn't help but notice how sub-par his wedge play seemed early on. Would love to see him make it back out...

[Ferguson]

The next Tiger, yeah.

 

NEXT!

[nsxguy]

> @grm24 said:

> > @ItIsJack said:

> > Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. **On top of that he is an elite putter**.

> Champ is currently ranked 192nd out of 209 players in putts per round on the PGA Tour. That's not elite.

>

>

 

Not saying he's an elite putter or not but stats in golf, as in many sports, often do not tell the whole story.

 

This is a good example. Champ is 9th in GIRs. You hit more greens you also hit more putts. It's really just that simple.

[ray9898]

> @ItIsJack said:

> On top of that he is an elite putter.

 

 

LOL....not even close.

 

[DrivingChamp]

Iron play is awful

[braincramp52]

I thought he's been injured hasn't he?

[Golfjack]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @grm24 said:

> > > @ItIsJack said:

> > > Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. **On top of that he is an elite putter**.

> > Champ is currently ranked 192nd out of 209 players in putts per round on the PGA Tour. That's not elite.

> >

> >

>

> Not saying he's an elite putter or not but stats in golf, as in many sports, often do not tell the whole story.

>

> This is a good example. Champ is 9th in GIRs. You hit more greens you also hit more putts. It's really just that simple.

 

Yeah his problem areas are mainly approaching and short game. As evidenced by his strokes gained stats. He’s like the guy in your group who hits it further but can’t finish the deal. I used to experience that playing savvy old vets lol

[Krt22]

> @Golfjack said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @grm24 said:

> > > > @ItIsJack said:

> > > > Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. **On top of that he is an elite putter**.

> > > Champ is currently ranked 192nd out of 209 players in putts per round on the PGA Tour. That's not elite.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Not saying he's an elite putter or not but stats in golf, as in many sports, often do not tell the whole story.

> >

> > This is a good example. Champ is 9th in GIRs. You hit more greens you also hit more putts. It's really just that simple.

>

> Yeah his problem areas are mainly approaching and short game. As evidenced by his strokes gained stats. He’s like the guy in your group who hits it further but can’t finish the deal. I used to experience that playing savvy old vets lol

 

 

 

You rang??? I can have a partial wedge in on a par 4 and still come away with double, lulz

[grm24]

> @lawsonman said:

> I thought he's been injured hasn't he?

Yes. Had back issues that caused him to w/d during the 2nd round of The Players. Came back at The RBC.

[Golfjack]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @Golfjack said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > @ItIsJack said:

> > > > > Champ has the potential to dominate one of the most important parts of golf. **On top of that he is an elite putter**.

> > > > Champ is currently ranked 192nd out of 209 players in putts per round on the PGA Tour. That's not elite.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Not saying he's an elite putter or not but stats in golf, as in many sports, often do not tell the whole story.

> > >

> > > This is a good example. Champ is 9th in GIRs. You hit more greens you also hit more putts. It's really just that simple.

> >

> > Yeah his problem areas are mainly approaching and short game. As evidenced by his strokes gained stats. He’s like the guy in your group who hits it further but can’t finish the deal. I used to experience that playing savvy old vets lol

>

>

>

> You rang??? I can have a partial wedge in on a par 4 and still come away with double, lulz

 

LOL took me a while to realize real good players actually score better rather than just hit it further. Also not easy to hit it close to the pin. My game got a lot better when I started hitting better wedge shots. Now if I would just stop tinkering with my swing.... I just wonder if Champs swing is so good for distance but not as much for consistency? Not sure why his iron/wedge play isn't better. He's basically like DJ who just needed to work on his wedge game and short game to become elite. Well a poor man's version, since right now his game is not on that level.

[ItIsJack]

A > @ray9898 said:

> > @ItIsJack said:

> > On top of that he is an elite putter.

>

>

> LOL....not even close.

>

31st in SG Putting is not even close???

 

[PZero]

Another missed cut this week.

 

That is 5 missed cuts and a WD in his last 6 starts.

[wildcatden]

Cameron Champ needs a new swing coach.

[tyorke1]

Golf is tough, lots of media attention, he is experiencing what 80% of the pga tour goes through a slump. He will be back. Not many have confidence when playing bad, I know you will hate to hear this but Tiger was able to score when playing bad and not just his short game but the confidence that he could score when playing bad , even when the whole world was picking his swing apart. This kid will find it.

[ryuartz]

Sean Foley.

[Titleist99]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > @Railroading13 said:

> > > The game will always be about how often you get the ball up and down from 150 yards and in - everything else - distance... is just hype

> >

> > Any stats to back this up?

> >

> >

>

> Just common sense. You can hit it in the weeds and get up and down and beat anybody. Or you can hit it in the fairway , hit greens and 2-3 putt only and beat nobody.

Absolutely correct......a scrambling Tiger is fun to watch. Woods never was the best driver of the golf ball. He became a great player when he developed an arm swing with his wedges.....length is great but I would rather have a killer iron game.

 

[mjen43]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > > @Railroading13 said:

> > > > The game will always be about how often you get the ball up and down from 150 yards and in - everything else - distance... is just hype

> > >

> > > Any stats to back this up?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Just common sense. You can hit it in the weeds and get up and down and beat anybody. Or you can hit it in the fairway , hit greens and 2-3 putt only and beat nobody.

> Absolutely correct......a scrambling Tiger is fun to watch. Woods never was the best driver of the golf ball. He became a great player when he developed an arm swing with his wedges.....length is great but I would rather have a killer iron game.

>

 

Tiger was by far the best driver in the late 90s/early 2000s. He was never the most accurate, but he was pretty easily the longest and as long as you aren’t taking penalty strokes due to tee balls length is overwhelmingly more important than accuracy.