Cobra's new King F9 Speedback Driver, Woods, Hybrids and Irons (NO BUY SELL TRADE POSTS)

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  • Hookasaurus RexHookasaurus Rex Purveyor of fine turf Members  1118WRX Points: 132Posts: 1,118 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 20, 2019 #2522

    On -, @Mob said:

    Can people comment on their experience with weight back vs. forward? I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with this club yet, but on the range, I seem to get better dispersion with the weight back, without sacrificing distance. I haven't had the opportunity yet to see the difference in performance on the course

    I prefer it with the heavier weight back. I've got a 10g forward and 18g back- dispersion is a lot better for me in this set-up. It is definitely more forgiving in this configuration, in addition to sounding and feeling better (Still sounds/feels great with heavy weight up front). I dropped loft by 1* when I shifted the heavier weight back to keep the spin where I wanted it. It still launches plenty well for me at 8*. I'm not really seeing a difference in distance between the weight settings. I think the possibility of an insanely long drive is higher with the heavy weight forward, but I was a little bit all over the place with the heavy weight up front. I actually liked 14g forward and 10g back, or even flip flopped, but needed a few more grams for swingweight. Once I get rid of the cobra arccos grip set up, which weighs a ton, I can put a 50g weight on an drop some weight in the head back to the 14-10 configuration.

    Posted:
    🐍LTD Pro Aldila Copperhead 60tx or
    Callaway EF SZ Triple💎10.5/Rogue SZ-V w/ Aldila 130 Rogue White 60x
    Callaway Super Hybrid 16* Tensei Pro Orange 80s
    Ping G410 19* Hybrid Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    Taylormade p790 4-GW Project X LZ 6.0
    🐍King Black 54*, 58* Modus Wedge 115
    PXG🦇Attack Extreme Darkness 35” 375g
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  • WarrickWarrick ClubWRX  11552WRX Points: 1,358Handicap: 7Posts: 11,552 ClubWRX
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    Still up and down with the driver, but have swapped out with my Epic and not hitting that very good either right now, but.....

    The Tour fairway woods are the business, hitting the strong 3 wood better than the driver, they are amazing.

    Posted:
    GBB 9* Ventus Black 6
    F9 Tour 3w\13.5 -Ventus black 7
    Rogue SZ 5w HZRDUS 
    Mavrik 7w smoke 80
    Mavrik Pro TT Elevate
    MD5 53/58
    Odyssey SL Black Rossie 
    TM TP5X pix
  • SEP1006SEP1006 Pearland, Tx.ClubWRX  1331WRX Points: 348Handicap: 6.5 and trendingPosts: 1,331 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #2524

    Definitely don’t understand all the physics part but mine “came alive” when I moved the heavy weight forward.

    Posted:



    DRIVER -    Taylor Made Sim Max 10.5* | UST Mamiya Attas Cool Stiff
    3 WD -       Taylor Made Sim Max 14.5* | Ventus Blue Stiff 
    HYBRIDS - PXG Gen 2 -  2 / 3 / 4 Hybrids | Accra Tour 90i Stiff
    IRONS -     PXG Gen 3 -  0311XP 5 - GW | Accra Tour 90i Stiff
    WEDGES - Ping Stealth Glide 2.0 54-12 / 58-06 Wedges | Wedge Flex
    GRIPS -      JumboMax XL Ultralight grips on ALL 
    PUTTER -   PXG Gunboat H 
    BAG -         PXG Staff Bag
    BALLS -     Snell MTB Black / Pro V1






  • ian-500ian-500 Members  1086WRX Points: 291Handicap: 12Posts: 1,086 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2525

    On -, @hurley999s said:

    On -, @ian-500 said:

    Anyone know the 'standard' head weight of the driver? Mine is 196g with just the 14g and 2g weights and I'm wondering how Cobra got it to D4 sw playing at 44 1/4...

    Probably your shaft, no? I noticed 7x...I’m thinking otherwise if it was a 60 series cut to that length you’d be a lot lighter.

    I see what you're saying, but the 7x is on the 'lighter side' of the 70g range. Having read on this thread about tour length drivers and the subsequent different head weight screws, just surprised mine didn't have these 'weights' installed too. Anyway, it feels fantastic.

    Posted:
    DR: Callaway Rogue SZ 9° + Diamana W60x.
    FW: in the making.
    HY: Callaway Apex19 4h 23° + Tour AD IZ 95x.
    Irons: Taylormade R9 Forged 5i-PW + Quadra 100i Pro x.
    Wedges: iCleveland RTX3 52/58
    SeeMore SB1, Accra FX300.
  • ian-500ian-500 Members  1086WRX Points: 291Handicap: 12Posts: 1,086 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2526

    On -, @Mob said:

    Can people comment on their experience with weight back vs. forward? I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with this club yet, but on the range, I seem to get better dispersion with the weight back, without sacrificing distance. I haven't had the opportunity yet to see the difference in performance on the course

    I'll hopefully do a comparison test on the course tomorrow with TP5 balls and report back. Let's hope I swing the same for both swings right! B)

    Posted:
    DR: Callaway Rogue SZ 9° + Diamana W60x.
    FW: in the making.
    HY: Callaway Apex19 4h 23° + Tour AD IZ 95x.
    Irons: Taylormade R9 Forged 5i-PW + Quadra 100i Pro x.
    Wedges: iCleveland RTX3 52/58
    SeeMore SB1, Accra FX300.
  • DatSliceDoeDatSliceDoe Camerons & Cobras One fairway overMembers  2461WRX Points: 371Handicap: 9ishPosts: 2,461 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2527

    On -, @monkeyboy said:

    On -, @DatSliceDoe said:

    Any thoughts on the HZRDUS Red vs Smoke vs Black? Is the order of launch from highest to lowest as I've stated in the last sentence? Or is it something different?

    Has anyone ordered their club with the HZRDUS Smoke Black in the 70g offering?

    I've recently increased my driver launch through coaching, and the Red 6.0 I'm playing in my LTD @ 10.5* feels good, but now launches quite high. I tried a Smoke 6.0 - 60g in the F9 at 9* and it seemed lower launching, but felt light (actual gram weight 59). I'm looking to buy the F9 Tour length since my current LTD setup is 44.5" as is.

    I play a Black 6.0 75g in my 4W, but think the Black would be too low launching for driver.

    I'm considering a move from my Red 6.0 65g (actual gram weight 62) to the Smoke 6.0 70g (actual gram weight 68). Am I thinking this through correctly?

    I ordered an F9 with a Smoke Black 70 stiff...but I actually am using the shaft from my F8+ (Aldila Rougue Silver 70) - just works better for me. I can sell the Rogue Smoke 70 still if you want to make a deal.

    Thanks for the offer, but I've got some PUD with Cobra directly. I think I'll order with the smoke 70 and see how it goes. If not, I have the red to fall back on or can go shaft hunting in the BST.

    Posted:
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  • Captain Morgan Captain Morgan Members  709WRX Points: 102Posts: 709 Bunkers
    Joined:  #2528

    Even though I took ten F9 driver out of the bag, my F9 3 wood is going nowhere. Used it today second shot par 5 245 out ended up 25 feet for eagle. That club flies good, feels good, and lands soft.

    Posted:
    Sent from my iPhone using GolfWRX Mobile
  • ian-500ian-500 Members  1086WRX Points: 291Handicap: 12Posts: 1,086 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2529

    3yds longer distance when middled for heavy weight back, and slightly more forgiving. Strangely it also seemed to launch lower. However I preferred the sound/feel of heavy weight forward.
    More testing needed.

    Posted:
    DR: Callaway Rogue SZ 9° + Diamana W60x.
    FW: in the making.
    HY: Callaway Apex19 4h 23° + Tour AD IZ 95x.
    Irons: Taylormade R9 Forged 5i-PW + Quadra 100i Pro x.
    Wedges: iCleveland RTX3 52/58
    SeeMore SB1, Accra FX300.
  • GunGunGunGun Members  12WRX Points: 13Handicap: 4ishPosts: 12 Bunkers
    Joined:  #2530

    After three rounds of bad driving I'm starting to hit it better. Using shot scope hitting most fairways. Avg 246m and longest 266m liking those numbers :)

    Posted:
  • raheelcraheelc Members  93WRX Points: 19Posts: 93 Fairways
    Joined:  #2531

    Currently thinking about picking up one of the F9 driver heads from the forums here. Where would be a good place to buy a shaft for it? Direct from Cobra? I play my current driver (Nike VRS Covert) at 44.5", so looking to grab a tour length shaft for the F9. Also, don't have much experience with shafts, but what would be a good option for a regular flex shaft?

    Posted:
  • Lord HelmetLord Helmet Members  8783WRX Points: 305Posts: 8,783 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2532

    On -, @raheelc said:

    Currently thinking about picking up one of the F9 driver heads from the forums here. Where would be a good place to buy a shaft for it? Direct from Cobra? I play my current driver (Nike VRS Covert) at 44.5", so looking to grab a tour length shaft for the F9. Also, don't have much experience with shafts, but what would be a good option for a regular flex shaft?

    You can go thru cobra sure. Maple Hill golf has some shafts. Ebay will have some too.

    Posted:
    M5 - UST V2 6f5
    Cobra F9 3w - Atmos TS Blue 7x
    Speedback F9 4i - DG 105 x100
    Srixon 565/765 Combo 5-PW - Project X 5.5hs
    SM5 50,54,58,62 - F,K,S Grinds - Rifle 6.0
    Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 CS
    Pro V1x
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  • Go_TimeGo_Time Members  2585WRX Points: 311Posts: 2,585 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 27, 2019 #2533

    [MOD EDIT] NO SELLING IN THE GENERAL FORUMS

    Posted:
    Post edited by 1t2golf on
  • Jetierney13Jetierney13 Members  102WRX Points: 35Posts: 102 Fairways
    Joined:  #2534

    I keep flipping back and forth between the F9 and M5. M5 seems to be much more consistent for my swing but when hit well the feel, sound and results of the F9 are hard to beat!

    Posted:
  • danielryanwdanielryanw Members  316WRX Points: 43Posts: 316 Greens
    Joined:  edited Apr 25, 2019 #2535

    Caved.
    F9 9* came in. Swingweight was at D1-ish with the stock Smoke 6.5 60 shaft. Head weighed 195g.
    Tipped up a Synergy Black 60TX to play 44-3/4” and put lead tape around the back weight to bring the SW up to D4.
    So going to start with the 14g up front, 8-ish grams in the back and dialed down to 8.

    Posted:
    M3 8.5* | Synergy Black Proto 70tx
    M2 T3 13* DF | Tensei Pro Blue 80tx
    P790 2 UDI 17* | Tensei Pro White Hy 90tx
    '17 M1 20* hybrid | UST VTS Black 100hx
    Z745 4-PW | C-taper 125
    SM7 50*F 54*S 58*D | S400 TI Onyx
    Spider Tour Black
  • NicodimasNicodimas Members  58WRX Points: 33Posts: 58 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Apr 25, 2019 #2536
  • Lord HelmetLord Helmet Members  8783WRX Points: 305Posts: 8,783 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2537
    Posted:
    M5 - UST V2 6f5
    Cobra F9 3w - Atmos TS Blue 7x
    Speedback F9 4i - DG 105 x100
    Srixon 565/765 Combo 5-PW - Project X 5.5hs
    SM5 50,54,58,62 - F,K,S Grinds - Rifle 6.0
    Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 CS
    Pro V1x
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  • MooJerseyMooJersey MarylandMembers  601WRX Points: 137Handicap: 15.4Posts: 601 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2538

    I just hit the F9 for the first time today at my local Golf Galaxy. I have to say ... I really didn't like it. May have been the shaft (Atmos). Could not get remotely close to my normal drives. Just came from the range bombing my F8+ right around 260-270. I felt like the F9 had a smaller face and was harder to middle.

    Posted:
    Driver = Titleist TS2
    4W = Titleist TS2 (16.5*)
    7W = Titleist 917F2 (21*)
    9W = TaylorMade M6 (24*)
    Titleist 718 AP2 5-PW
    Jet Black SM7's
    (50.08F, 54.08M, 60.04L)
    Bettinardi Queen Bee #6




  • bird_4_3bird_4_3 Members  636WRX Points: 117Handicap: 7.2Posts: 636 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2539

    I just ordered the F9 one length. My boss is playing the f7 one length and I played 9 with him the other day, I played his irons and was impressed. I have a 1 plane swing and these were really easy to hit straight. Hope this works lol.

    Posted:
    Ping G410 
    Epic 3
    XR 16 3 and 4 Hybrid
    z585/z785 combo
    Bettinardi
    Ping Wedges
  • reechardreechard Members  47WRX Points: 45Handicap: +7.8Posts: 47 Bunkers
    Joined:  #2540

    On -, @Mob said:

    Can people comment on their experience with weight back vs. forward? I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with this club yet, but on the range, I seem to get better dispersion with the weight back, without sacrificing distance. I haven't had the opportunity yet to see the difference in performance on the course

    I find that it's a wee more forgiving with the weight in the back. It's also more spinney for me.

    I also have the tour weights. Made the head a little heavier anyways as I'm playing with 43.75 inch shaft. I like the heavier weight in the front, keeps the spin around 2300 for me.
    I hit one of the longest drives I've ever had on the 3rd hole at my local track. All's I know is I REALLY REALLY REALLY like this F9.

    Posted:
    Currently in the bag:

    Driver  F9 Speedback 8° // Mitsubishi Kuro Kage XT 60TX //
    Woods //  F6 Baffler 19° // Fujikura Pro 85s //
    DI //  P790 UDI // HZRDUS Black 6.5
    Irons // 4-PW  Amp Cell Pro Irons // DG S300 //
    Wedges // 50° - Cleveland RTX 4 //
    Wedges// 56° -  Engage //
    Wedges // 60° -  Engage //
    Putter // Odyssey JailBird Mini S //
  • platgofplatgof platgof ClubWRX  2066WRX Points: 302Handicap: 17Posts: 2,066 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #2541

    Played the F9 5-6 fairway wood with senior shaft and just amazing. This is easily the best fairway wood I have ever hit, and I got a bunch. So impressed I just got the 7-8 to go with it. Nice, high boring shot, it goes. Confidence with this is the all time highest.

    Posted:

    Ping GMax 10.5
    Cobra F9 5 & 7 Wd
    Callaway OS 5 & 6 Hybrid
    Ping G 700 6-Aw
    SM7 50 F, 56 F & 58* D
    Toulon Columbus
    ERC
    Garmin S20
    Clubs this week

  • HubijerkHubijerk Members  837WRX Points: 144Posts: 837 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2542

    I'm waiting for some more weights, right now I have heavy weight forward with some lead tape toe side, It's at D0 or D1 depending on which shaft I have in it and I like it closer to D2 personally. Fore me it feels balanced and doesn't seem too punitive with the weight forward. I am seeing 300 rpm or so less spin this way.

    The bigger learning curve for me has been the face. I get much better results with lower half strikes than high half strikes. The ball seems to launch a bit higher than I'd like for strikes just north of midline and I feel like I'm losing some carry. Conversely I hit some absolute flat bombs with strikes that were slightly below the midine, and some drives that I would say surprised me on strikes that were well low of center. The good result zone seems large... But there is a very tiny "Nuke" zone that is magic, and I've hit some balls to places I've never even thought of before on holes and courses I know well. I'm still working through some shafts though, but the issue for me is that the optimum set up changes depending on sweet low vs. sweet high.. The loft noticeably changes on either side of that imaginary latitudinal face line.

    Posted:
    You can't sneak the cheese by a rat
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  • FredWombleFredWomble Members  551WRX Points: 115Posts: 551 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Apr 28, 2019 #2543

    No doubt this has been discussed on this thread, likely more than once (call me lazy). Situation: F8+ shaft with F9 9 degree head. Trying to convert the adapter settings to determine say what would make the F9 play at 10.5. I'm thinking it'd be with F8+ shaft at 12 degrees.

    I hit an F9 with my Even Flow and stock NV shafts today. It's a bomber but feels so soft and muffled. Impressed. My friend who plays a G400 hit the F9/Even Flow on last hole of the day and hit his longest drive ever on the 18th (jerk 😁).

    Posted:
    Post edited by FredWomble on
    Cobra F9 9, Fujikura Atmos 6s 10.0
    Cobra F8 3 with Aldila NV Blue 70 S 15.5
    Cobra King Utility 20.5 Elements Chrome S 20.5
    Mizuno MP 20 HMB 5-6, MMC 7-8, MP 9-P KBS C-taper Lite R
    Scratch 1018 53 / Chikara 1 dot (51 degree)
    Scratch 1018 KBS 56
    Nike Engage Toe Sweep 60
    Yes! Mollie with Sense R grip

  • wayne18wayne18 Members  273WRX Points: 76Posts: 273 Greens
    Joined:  edited Apr 28, 2019 #2544

    On -, @FredWomble said:

    No doubt this has been discussed on this thread, likely more than once (call me lazy). Situation: F8+ shaft with F9 9 degree head. Trying to convert the adapter settings to determine say what would make the F9 play at 10.5. I'm thinking it'd be with F8+ shaft at 12 degrees.

    I hit an F9 with my Even Flow and stock NV shafts today. It's a bomber but feels so soft and muffled. Impressed. My friend who plays a G400 hit the F9/Even Flow on last hole of the day and hit his longest drive ever on the 18th (jerk 😁).

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it would be the highest setting of 11* with the F8+ adapter. Neutral setting for the F8+ is 9.5*

    Posted:
    Cobra Speedzone 10.5 Tensei AV 65 Stiff
    Cobra F9 #5 Wood Atmos Stiff
    Cobra F7 3-4 Hybrid Fujikura Pro75 Stiff
    Cobra Fly Z+ 4-Pw Recoil 110F4
    Cobra King Forged Tour 50* Recoil 110F4
    Cobra King Pur 54*, 58* DG S200
    Odyssey White Ice #2
    Srixon Q-Star Tour
  • FredWombleFredWomble Members  551WRX Points: 115Posts: 551 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2545

    On -, @wayne18 said:

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it would be the highest setting of 11* with the F8+ adapter. Neutral setting for the F8+ is 9.5*

    Thank you, wayne18... yeah, I know this should be pretty simple and intuitive, lol. Simplifying, I want to convert F8+ shafts to F9 9 degree head where the F9 will play at 10.5. I will say, after only hitting the F9 with Even Flow and NV 2KXV Blue on 4 holes, it feels even better than the F8+ which is (was?) in a class by itself in the feel/sound department IMO. Seeing my partner's reaction after he smashed one, first swing, that was a commercial moment.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 9, Fujikura Atmos 6s 10.0
    Cobra F8 3 with Aldila NV Blue 70 S 15.5
    Cobra King Utility 20.5 Elements Chrome S 20.5
    Mizuno MP 20 HMB 5-6, MMC 7-8, MP 9-P KBS C-taper Lite R
    Scratch 1018 53 / Chikara 1 dot (51 degree)
    Scratch 1018 KBS 56
    Nike Engage Toe Sweep 60
    Yes! Mollie with Sense R grip

  • DatSliceDoeDatSliceDoe Camerons & Cobras One fairway overMembers  2461WRX Points: 371Handicap: 9ishPosts: 2,461 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2546

    Can someone refresh my memory about the differences between the two lofted heads? Is one lower spin/loft/fade biased or am I wrong?

    Posted:
  • KGilmaKGilma Franklin TNMembers  237WRX Points: 62Posts: 237 Fairways
    Joined:  #2547

    On -, @DatSliceDoe said:

    Can someone refresh my memory about the differences between the two lofted heads? Is one lower spin/loft/fade biased or am I wrong?

    Heavy weight forward, light back = low launch / low spin - Fade. Heavy weight back, light forward = mid launch / spin, Draw more forgiving.
    Wish I could play it with the heavy weight forward, but it really accentuates my fade (slice). lol When I caught it perfectly I hit some of the best drives I've ever hit, but it was way to inconsistent. Much better with the heavy weight in the rear, but not quite as long.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max 9* Tensei Pro Orange 60
    Cobra King F9 3w 14.5*
    Cobra King F9 5w 18.5*
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 4-PW
    Titleist Vokey SM7 50*/56*/60*
    Scotty Newport 2
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  • BookerBooker Members  801WRX Points: 104Posts: 801 Golden Tee
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    On -, @DatSliceDoe said:

    Can someone refresh my memory about the differences between the two lofted heads? Is one lower spin/loft/fade biased or am I wrong?

    The 9degree head has a flatter lie angle making it a touch more fade bias than the 10.5. As others mentioned heavy weight forward will lower spin and launch, vice versa with heavy weight back.

    Posted:
  • DatSliceDoeDatSliceDoe Camerons & Cobras One fairway overMembers  2461WRX Points: 371Handicap: 9ishPosts: 2,461 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2549

    On -, @Booker said:

    On -, @DatSliceDoe said:

    Can someone refresh my memory about the differences between the two lofted heads? Is one lower spin/loft/fade biased or am I wrong?

    The 9degree head has a flatter lie angle making it a touch more fade bias than the 10.5. As others mentioned heavy weight forward will lower spin and launch, vice versa with heavy weight back.

    I'll consider the 10.5, I already play the 10.5 LTD, but demo'd the 9* F9 and really did like it, but the stock HZRDUS shaft felt too light. I think the Smoke 70 would help, and it really is more of a 65g shaft anyhow.
    I don't need anything to accentuate my already natural fade/slice (hence my username...) But, I've been working hard on it, and things are definitely improving back towards center.

    Posted:
  • Lord HelmetLord Helmet Members  8783WRX Points: 305Posts: 8,783 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2550

    So while I wait for my Atmos to come in (backordered) I have taken the F9 out with the Evenflow White and Hzrdus Black. Evenflow came with the club and I had the Hzrdus. Driver has been inconsistent at best. When I hit it well it goes, but I am really all over the place with it. Blocks, pulls, etc. I hope the Atmos solves that. Something about Fuji shafts and my mortal swing just seem to work. Brings me to the F9 3w with Atmos Blue 7x. Thing is money. Absolute money. Hit a pair of 260+ yard shots with it yesterday while playing (just stupid long for me - was even in wet conditions - humble brag part of post lol). Supremely confident in that thing. First 3w since the Ping G25 I can say this about.
    If i cannot get the F9 driver dialed in I will either go back to my trusty LTD Pro or give the M5 a go - the M5 got very similar numbers for me.

    Posted:
    M5 - UST V2 6f5
    Cobra F9 3w - Atmos TS Blue 7x
    Speedback F9 4i - DG 105 x100
    Srixon 565/765 Combo 5-PW - Project X 5.5hs
    SM5 50,54,58,62 - F,K,S Grinds - Rifle 6.0
    Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 CS
    Pro V1x
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  • HubijerkHubijerk Members  837WRX Points: 144Posts: 837 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2551

    On -, @Lord Helmet said:

    So while I wait for my Atmos to come in (backordered) I have taken the F9 out with the Evenflow White and Hzrdus Black. Evenflow came with the club and I had the Hzrdus. Driver has been inconsistent at best. When I hit it well it goes, but I am really all over the place with it. Blocks, pulls, etc. I hope the Atmos solves that. Something about Fuji shafts and my mortal swing just seem to work. Brings me to the F9 3w with Atmos Blue 7x. Thing is money. Absolute money. Hit a pair of 260+ yard shots with it yesterday while playing (just stupid long for me - was even in wet conditions - humble brag part of post lol). Supremely confident in that thing. First 3w since the Ping G25 I can say this about.
    If i cannot get the F9 driver dialed in I will either go back to my trusty LTD Pro or give the M5 a go - the M5 got very similar numbers for me.

    It took me a minute to get my F9 dialed in, Right now I have weight forward, some lead tape toe side, a tour adapter set to 7 degrees fade and a 661 Speeder Evo TS and it's really really good. I have a 757 in the 3w too and frankly these are the best I have ever hit. Keep tweaking, it's worth getting it dialed in.

    Posted:
    You can't sneak the cheese by a rat
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