Dynamic loft v AoA v Launch Angle?

[physasst]

So, taking lessons...working with a great pro, and he uses Trackman with every session, and then sends you a Trackman file. I'm trying to digest all of this, which can be a little overwhelming. One of the things he suggested was changing my driver loft to 9*. I was previously hitting at 12*, but he noted that my dynamic loft was like 18* on average. So, I also see launch angle, AoA, etc. I'm trying to digest all of this. Can someone explain some of this in layman's terms?

 

[Stuart_G]

This gives the very basic info for what the different launch monitor numbers mean (it's the TrackMan web site - but the terms are generally valid across all LM's).

 

https://trackmangolf.com/what-we-track

[Krt22]

https://trackmangolf.com/what-we-track

[Golfrnut]

I can't see a ton of benefit in sending you a Trackman report unless he is first explaining where you are, where he wants you to be, and then your progress...and filtering the results to those one or two areas.

 

It sounds you are getting a detailed report, which like you say, is going to be overwhelming for 99% of people and is a recipe for people to start chasing numbers, wanting to be X because they heard X was better than the number they have, etc. Learning the numbers and how they apply is not an overnight or even a "week" endevor, it takes a while to understand what they mean, and even more complicated, what it all means in 3D space. The term "paralysis by analysis" is definetly real.

 

Best thought I can give, don't try to understand on your own, talk with your instructor on where you are at and what numbers he's trying to change and why...and ignore the rest.

[RichieHunt]

As explained....

 

Static Loft = the loft of your club as it has been designed. (i.e. 12* loft stamp on a driver)

 

Dynamic loft = the loft of your club at impact. Something like forward shaft lean will likely lower the dynamic loft of the club. Conversely, having no shaft lean will likely increase the dynamic loft. The ole '_he's basically turning his 7-iron into a 5-iron and that's why he hits it so long_'

 

Launch Angle = The angle that the *ball* launches upward

 

AoA = The club head's movement, either upward, downward or flat into the ball .

 

Spin Loft = Dynamic Loft - Attack Angle. Helps determine the launch and spin characteristics and why a golfer's smash factor the way it it is. High spin loft equates to more spin, shorter traveling shots and lower smash factor. Low spin loft equates to less spin, further traveling shots and higher smash factor. Want to hit the driver as long as you can? Lowering your spin loft is a good place to start. Want to hit a super spinny wedge? Increasing your spin loft is a good place to start.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Golfrnut]

> @RichieHunt said:

> As explained....

>

> Static Loft = the loft of your club as it has been designed. (i.e. 12* loft stamp on a driver)

>

> Dynamic loft = the loft of your club at impact. Something like forward shaft lean will likely lower the dynamic loft of the club. Conversely, having no shaft lean will likely increase the dynamic loft. The ole '_he's basically turning his 7-iron into a 5-iron and that's why he hits it so long_'

>

> Launch Angle = The angle that the *ball* launches upward

>

> AoA = The club head's movement, either upward, downward or flat into the ball .

>

> Spin Loft = Dynamic Loft - Attack Angle. Helps determine the launch and spin characteristics and why a golfer's smash factor the way it it is. High spin loft equates to more spin, shorter traveling shots and lower smash factor. Low spin loft equates to less spin, further traveling shots and higher smash factor. Want to hit the driver as long as you can? Lowering your spin loft is a good place to start. Want to hit a super spinny wedge? Increasing your spin loft is a good place to start.

>

>

>

>

>

> RH

 

This is my point exactly, the reality is things aren’t that simple.

 

- I increased my spin loft because I wanted more spin...why to I spin it less now?

- I lowered my spin loft with the driver to 10*, now I spin it more than when my spin loft says it’s 15*. Why?

(these were both rhetorical questions)

 

If we played golf in a vacuum and the definitions always matched a result, then awesome. Many times it doesn’t.

[ChaosTheory]

I watch a lot of the TXG videos on Youtube. When Ian says something noteworthy about fitting, I write it down. On this subject he said that optimum dynamic loft for a driver shot is 18 degrees. He did say that this is on a GC Quad monitor, which led me to believe he might have a different answer for a Trackman. I think he has said that TM tends to read less angle of attack than GCQ.

[Krt22]

18 seems high, even for a slow swinger.

[Golfrnut]

> @Snowman9000 said:

> I watch a lot of the TXG videos on Youtube. When Ian says something noteworthy about fitting, I write it down. On this subject he said that optimum dynamic loft for a driver shot is 18 degrees. He did say that this is on a GC Quad monitor, which led me to believe he might have a different answer for a Trackman. I think he has said that TM tends to read less angle of attack than GCQ.

 

 

That would be missing a ton of context to make it adventageous for anyone. That number, on it’s own, would be much too high for what you would want with a driver. That number, effected by gear effect, could be slightly more adventageous. It’s the beginning of how people get themselves in trouble.

 

[BB28403]

Perhaps the correct number is 15? Because he wants to take your driver from 12 loft to 9.

[ChaosTheory]

> @Golfrnut said:

> > @Snowman9000 said:

> > I watch a lot of the TXG videos on Youtube. When Ian says something noteworthy about fitting, I write it down. On this subject he said that optimum dynamic loft for a driver shot is 18 degrees. He did say that this is on a GC Quad monitor, which led me to believe he might have a different answer for a Trackman. I think he has said that TM tends to read less angle of attack than GCQ.

>

>

> That would be missing a ton of context to make it adventageous for anyone. That number, on it’s own, would be much too high for what you would want with a driver. That number, effected by gear effect, could be slightly more adventageous. It’s the beginning of how people get themselves in trouble.

>

I can appreciate your answer, because it doesn't seem like it can be that universal. Yet, that's the way he said it. I wish I knew which video. Probably one of the 100 minute Monday marathons, and I am not about to re-watch the last couple of them to find the nugget. :) So, worth what you paid for it, and maybe not even that.

[Krt22]

I honestly think whatever you did hear, you might have misunderstood or misheard. 18* with a driver is too much, for just about anyone. I follow TXG, they are pretty careful about not speaking in absolute terms since "ideal" varies a lot based on the persons speed and impact conditions

[ChaosTheory]

> @Krt22 said:

> I honestly think whatever you did hear, you might have misunderstood or misheard. 18* with a driver is too much, for just about anyone. I follow TXG, they are pretty careful about not speaking in absolute terms since "ideal" varies a lot based on the persons speed and impact conditions

 

Remember we are talking dynamic loft, not launch angle. But, I wish I had an easy way to find it.

 

[Golfrnut]

> @Snowman9000 said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > I honestly think whatever you did hear, you might have misunderstood or misheard. 18* with a driver is too much, for just about anyone. I follow TXG, they are pretty careful about not speaking in absolute terms since "ideal" varies a lot based on the persons speed and impact conditions

>

> Remember we are talking dynamic loft, not launch angle. But, I wish I had an easy way to find it.

>

 

Once you get that high, unless you are 3-5 up, the spin loft becomes great enough that you start losing ball speed. That number may be okay for some...and terrible for others.

 

[Krt22]

> @Snowman9000 said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > I honestly think whatever you did hear, you might have misunderstood or misheard. 18* with a driver is too much, for just about anyone. I follow TXG, they are pretty careful about not speaking in absolute terms since "ideal" varies a lot based on the persons speed and impact conditions

>

> Remember we are talking dynamic loft, not launch angle. But, I wish I had an easy way to find it.

>

 

Yes I know. From trackman's data, PGA tour avg dynamic loft is 12.8, scratch golfer is 13, LGPA avg is 15.5. Even a 15 hcp woman is only 16.5. 18 is moon balls for anyone with even moderate speed

[ChaosTheory]

I emailed Ian at TXG to ask if I had heard it wrong. The reply was:

"Generally most efficient Drivers of the golf ball will fall into 17-19 dynamic loft with Driver. There are a few factors that may cause you to stray from that, strike point and AoA. "

 

So we can probably conclude that the 18 number includes a good positive AoA.

And I bet that TM data is different from that of GC Quad. It seems to be in other measured characteristics.

 

[trilerian]

I was on a Skytrak last night and found my optimal launch angle to be roughly 17* with driver. Now I am not a long hitter by any means, but my good strikes at that launch carried 225-240. I have an m4 10.5, turned down to the second lowest loft setting, so I am pretty sure my angle of attack is pretty up, and playing a tense I blue stiff shaft. I tried my dad’s m6 10.5 with a regular flex tensei red and hit moon balls.

[pinhigh27]

> @Golfrnut said:

> > @RichieHunt said:

> > As explained....

> >

> > Static Loft = the loft of your club as it has been designed. (i.e. 12* loft stamp on a driver)

> >

> > Dynamic loft = the loft of your club at impact. Something like forward shaft lean will likely lower the dynamic loft of the club. Conversely, having no shaft lean will likely increase the dynamic loft. The ole '_he's basically turning his 7-iron into a 5-iron and that's why he hits it so long_'

> >

> > Launch Angle = The angle that the *ball* launches upward

> >

> > AoA = The club head's movement, either upward, downward or flat into the ball .

> >

> > Spin Loft = Dynamic Loft - Attack Angle. Helps determine the launch and spin characteristics and why a golfer's smash factor the way it it is. High spin loft equates to more spin, shorter traveling shots and lower smash factor. Low spin loft equates to less spin, further traveling shots and higher smash factor. Want to hit the driver as long as you can? Lowering your spin loft is a good place to start. Want to hit a super spinny wedge? Increasing your spin loft is a good place to start.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > RH

>

> This is my point exactly, the reality is things aren’t that simple.

>

> - I increased my spin loft because I wanted more spin...why to I spin it less now?

> - I lowered my spin loft with the driver to 10*, now I spin it more than when my spin loft says it’s 15*. Why?

> (these were both rhetorical questions)

>

> If we played golf in a vacuum and the definitions always matched a result, then awesome. Many times it doesn’t.

 

When do they not match the result? If you hit it solid then decreasing spin loft will make you spin it less except with wedges around 45 with the friction stuff. That's the only time the relationship doesn't hold true.

[physasst]

I can only say, my dynamic loft is now around 13.5, and I've gained about 15 yards of distance. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on why.

Mike

[adamyounggolf]

 

* The dynamic loft (blue) is the loft you present at impact. Static loft would be standard loft on the club. It's important to realize that the loft also varies across the face, with loft being higher farther up the face, and vice versa.

* Angle of attack (pink) would be the vertical (up/down) movement of the clubhead or, more specifically, the part of the face in contact with the ball.

* spin loft would be the difference between the two (AOA and DL). In general, the higher the spin loft, the lower the smash factor, the higher the spin rate, and the more neutral the spin axis will be (hence wedges having less curve).

* Launch angle would always be between the AOA and DL. In almost all cases, it will be closer to the dynamic loft, but variants such as friction, club speed etc can change the amount that the launch favors the dynamic loft.

 

Hope that helps.

[Golfrnut]

> @pinhigh27 said:

> > @Golfrnut said:

> > > @RichieHunt said:

> > > As explained....

> > >

> > > Static Loft = the loft of your club as it has been designed. (i.e. 12* loft stamp on a driver)

> > >

> > > Dynamic loft = the loft of your club at impact. Something like forward shaft lean will likely lower the dynamic loft of the club. Conversely, having no shaft lean will likely increase the dynamic loft. The ole '_he's basically turning his 7-iron into a 5-iron and that's why he hits it so long_'

> > >

> > > Launch Angle = The angle that the *ball* launches upward

> > >

> > > AoA = The club head's movement, either upward, downward or flat into the ball .

> > >

> > > Spin Loft = Dynamic Loft - Attack Angle. Helps determine the launch and spin characteristics and why a golfer's smash factor the way it it is. High spin loft equates to more spin, shorter traveling shots and lower smash factor. Low spin loft equates to less spin, further traveling shots and higher smash factor. Want to hit the driver as long as you can? Lowering your spin loft is a good place to start. Want to hit a super spinny wedge? Increasing your spin loft is a good place to start.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > RH

> >

> > This is my point exactly, the reality is things aren’t that simple.

> >

> > - I increased my spin loft because I wanted more spin...why to I spin it less now?

> > - I lowered my spin loft with the driver to 10*, now I spin it more than when my spin loft says it’s 15*. Why?

> > (these were both rhetorical questions)

> >

> > If we played golf in a vacuum and the definitions always matched a result, then awesome. Many times it doesn’t.

>

> When do they not match the result? If you hit it solid then decreasing spin loft will make you spin it less except with wedges around 45 with the friction stuff. That's the only time the relationship doesn't hold true.

 

For the same reasons you stated above...and from other things changing in the process of trying to change another. It would be awesome if we could alter a single number how we wanted, but as you should probably know, it never works that way. Hence the dangers of everyone staring at monitor numbers.