Bigger impact for a high handicapper: shorter shaft or new driver

[jjfcpa]

Do not discount the Tour Edge EXS driver - custom specs $ 299. I made the switch recently from a Rogue Draw and I absolutely love it. It is so much more forgiving and yet provides longer drives even when you miss the sweet spot. I'm 71 years old and play to about a 15 handicap and I'm always looking for more distance and more fairways. This provides the best of both worlds for me. I'm only 5' 6" so I had it cut down to 44" and I find it so much easier to control. I'm actually picking out my spot and hitting it with my drives. The EXS is adjustable, but I've pretty much left it at the standard settings and they just seem to work for me.

[contramoto]

> @Stuart_G said:

Plenty of ways a 20 hcp can benifit from a fitting - and finding the proper playing length (and corresponding swing weight) is just one of them.

>

>

I suppose...but I've never seen a fitter pull out a 43" shaft for anyone to test. They have lots of stock driver shafts...44" and longer.

For guys shooting over bogey...play a shorter driver and move up to the proper tees. The game's a whole lot more fun when you're in the fairway and not hitting hybrids and woods into par 4's all day.

Bad drives cost more strokes than any other shot.

 

[ZipinZ]

I dumped my over priced SLDR 430 for a Ping G400 and butt trimmed the shaft it plays 44 1/2, stuffed some Walmart wool into the head got the S/W up to D4 and sounds great. I'm still working on my swing, but I've seen a significant improvement in accuracy & distance with this combo. Do both, and have fun again.

 

Cheers

 

David

[Cwing]

We driver and shorter shaft. I play my driver at 44.5*. There are better options than the sldr for those that need forgiveness. Go grab a more forgiving driver.

[Therty]

Guys, a lot of great insight in here. Thanks for putting some thoughts out there for me to digest.

[Stuart_G]

> @contramoto said:

> > @Stuart_G said:

> Plenty of ways a 20 hcp can benifit from a fitting - and finding the proper playing length (and corresponding swing weight) is just one of them.

> >

> >

> I suppose...but I've never seen a fitter pull out a 43" shaft for anyone to test. They have lots of stock driver shafts...44" and longer.

 

Well, the fact that anyone can call themselves a "fitter" can make it problematic as well. Real fitters are getting over shadowed by retail store "fittings" and anyone can set up a show and call themselves a fitter. So quality fitters are getting harder to find. Although, BTW, 43.5" to 44.5" tends to be the more common range for a large percentage of ams. Needing to go all the way to 43" does not seem to be very common. And choking up for shorter or in-between lengths compared to what's available to test is a commonly accepted practice - so a 44" shaft is plenty. Its' the "fitters" that only have stock length shafts to try or can't go shorter than 45" that you should stay away from.

 

But I didn't suggest he go see a fitter, I suggested he fit himself with the tutorial in the thread I linked to. That will cover most of the more important aspects of fitting (although not all).

 

> @contramoto said:

> For guys shooting over bogey...play a shorter driver and move up to the proper tees. The game's a whole lot more fun when you're in the fairway and not hitting hybrids and woods into par 4's all day.

> Bad drives cost more strokes than any other shot.

>

 

No real disagreement there.

[matchavez]

If you want to just play around with how a shorter shaft would look/feel, take a 3-wood and shove it in a driver head. I know Ping drivers will take the same adapter. While it won't give you a perfect "fit", it'll at least let you feel what a 44-ish stick will feel like.

Also there's nothing bad about buying an older driver for $50, cut and regrip it, and play with it.

No one here can tell you for sure that you need shorter, but it is likely. That said, it isn't always "lessons". In fact, I hate when I see those comments on here. OF COURSE lessons (if good) will help. But assuming you just want to get a little better through equipment, shorter shaft drivers will go shorter. They won't necessarily lower your score. You're better from 100 and rough than 130 and fairway. Just a plain fact. But if you're off the planet, maybe it's as simple as over swinging? How much better do you get if you swing 85%?

[mantan]

> @TnJohn said:

> New Driver with shorter shaft. SLDR 430 is way too unforgiving for a 20 handicapper.

 

 

The SLDR is as forgiving as a mother-in-law.

 

 

[tsecor]

This is a 20 hdcp were talking about here....so lessons will help immediately....and to assume he is better from 100 out of the rough vs the fairway is not a give> @matchavez said:

> If you want to just play around with how a shorter shaft would look/feel, take a 3-wood and shove it in a driver head. I know Ping drivers will take the same adapter. While it won't give you a perfect "fit", it'll at least let you feel what a 44-ish stick will feel like.

> Also there's nothing bad about buying an older driver for $50, cut and regrip it, and play with it.

> No one here can tell you for sure that you need shorter, but it is likely. That said, it isn't always "lessons". In fact, I hate when I see those comments on here. OF COURSE lessons (if good) will help. But assuming you just want to get a little better through equipment, shorter shaft drivers will go shorter. They won't necessarily lower your score. You're better from 100 and rough than 130 and fairway. Just a plain fact. But if you're off the planet, maybe it's as simple as over swinging? How much better do you get if you swing 85%?

 

 

[Stuart_G]

> @tsecor said:

> This is a 20 hdcp were talking about here....so lessons will help immediately...

 

Not impossible but very unlikely. Instruction is a long term solution, not short term. Except for maybe simple set-up changes, actual swing changes take a lot of time and effort for most to get any improvement from them.

 

[tsecor]

a 20 HDCP is doing things that a 10HDCP isn't in terms of grip, swing plane, transition and even simple alignment....2 lessons can most likely gain him 2-3 shots a side....a lesson on chipping and putting...same thing....but were talking the driver here so IMO, a few simple lessons can easily gain a 20HDCP a few strokes a side....a $500 driver cant do that> @Stuart_G said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > This is a 20 hdcp were talking about here....so lessons will help immediately...

>

> Not impossible but very unlikely. Instruction is a long term solution, not short term. Except for maybe simple set-up changes, actual swing changes take a lot of time and effort for most to get any improvement from them.

>

 

 

[Stuart_G]

> @tsecor said:

> a 20 HDCP is doing things that a 10HDCP isn't in terms of grip, swing plane, transition and even simple alignment....2 lessons can most likely gain him 2-3 shots a side....a lesson on chipping and putting...same thing....but were talking the driver here so IMO, a few simple lessons can easily gain a 20HDCP a few strokes a side....

 

Eventually maybe, but even that is assuming they have the time and put in the effort it takes to make the changes. That's quite a bit different than saying the improvement will be "immediate". That's what I disagree with.

 

 

[NRJyzr]

Kind of late to this party, but of the choices mentioned in the OP's question, I say both. A new-to-the-OP driver would be a good idea, for reasons already stated. And, I'm a big believer in going with shorter drivers, but I'd look at going no longer than 44", with 43.5" being a good target. Slap some lead tape on it to get it suitably weighted and off you go.

 

I like the idea mentioned above of an older Ping, something nice and forgiving, not expensive. A Rocketballz or RBZ Stage 2 could be good, also, or perhaps an R11S, all of which should be pretty reasonably priced. Lot of options in the TM world, and a LOT of shafts to swap in and out. Some very good options from the last few years in the Cobra world, also (personally a big fan of the Cobra stuff, but trying not to shill for them too much, lol)

 

[ChaosTheory]

My recommendation, a thriver.

https://www.hirekogolf.com/golf-clubs/custom-golf-clubs/golf-drivers/acer-xv-ultimate-thriver-custom-assembled.html

Here's an even shorter and cheaper one. 42 inches long, decent shaft, $79. You'll lose some distance, but not as many golf balls:

https://www.diamondtour.com/golf-clubs/drivers/in1zone-single-length-driver.html

[Therty]

> @Stuart_G said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > a 20 HDCP is doing things that a 10HDCP isn't in terms of grip, swing plane, transition and even simple alignment....2 lessons can most likely gain him 2-3 shots a side....a lesson on chipping and putting...same thing....but were talking the driver here so IMO, a few simple lessons can easily gain a 20HDCP a few strokes a side....

>

> Eventually maybe, but even that is assuming they have the time and put in the effort it takes to make the changes. That's quite a bit different than saying the improvement will be "immediate". That's what I disagree with.

>

>

 

I'm deep in lesson's guys. It's definitely not an immediate solution. I'm down about 17 strokes on average since August of last year. (~115 to 98). Driver only even came out of the bag about 6/8 weeks ago. Before I'd been hitting Irons off the tee.

[LONGBALL777]

Buy this and thank me later. This has transformed my game. Look for the thread on it. This is the 44" version.

https://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/golf-clubs/drivers/drivers-2016-big-bertha-fusion-heavy.html

[Barfolomew]

Cut that worthless pos driver down to at least 44" if not shorter....and you WILL pick up distance trust me cause you'll finally be hittin middle of face oh and the fairway is nice too lol

[Noble6]

You must buy a new driver. This is Golfwrx and that's what we do. A new driver will fix all your problems and you will feel great about yourself. You're welcome.

[stanger37]

I am super late, but also have a question to go along with this. Wouldn't going higher loft on the driver help some too?

[Stuart_G]

> @stanger37 said:

> I am super late, but also have a question to go along with this. Wouldn't going higher loft on the driver help some too?

 

Not usually. Takes more than a few degrees of loft to appreciably reduce how far offline a shot will go. So while going all the way to a 3wd can help, going from say 9* to 11* wont really make that much difference.

 

[MtlJeff]

Typically i believe that shorter drivers are mostly placebos. Changing from 45 to 44 for example is a 2.2% change in length. 46 to 44.5 is 3% change. This is a relatively small difference to be any kind of transformative change and i think it's mostly psychological for many. Same as people who say 445cc drivers are meaningfully smaller than 460cc

 

The SLDR430 is one of the least forgiving drivers of the modern era. But nothing will fix a poor swing as even forgiveness is relative. If you can't keep a SLDR on the planet it's not like a G410+ will go straight

 

Of the choices i think a new driver will help more. But a better swing is the only real solution

[Therty]

 

Its always been my belief that swing will override equipment. I think ive made it clear that Im not chasing a quick fix here, just trying to best set myself up for success. I do feel like 1” of shaft change can be a lot when you’re trying to move strike position on the face by 10mm or so....

 

I put a warp of tape on my driver grip, about an inch down from the butt. Im going to see if there is a meaningful improvement if I can be more consistent in actually gripping down on the club. Step 1!

 

 

> @MtlJeff said:

> Typically i believe that shorter drivers are mostly placebos. Changing from 45 to 44 for example is a 2.2% change in length. 46 to 44.5 is 3% change. This is a relatively small difference to be any kind of transformative change and i think it's mostly psychological for many. Same as people who say 445cc drivers are meaningfully smaller than 460cc

>

> The SLDR430 is one of the least forgiving drivers of the modern era. But nothing will fix a poor swing as even forgiveness is relative. If you can't keep a SLDR on the planet it's not like a G410+ will go straight

>

> Of the choices i think a new driver will help more. But a better swing is the only real solution

 

 

[chigolfer1]

> @Therty said:

>

> Its always been my belief that swing will override equipment. I think ive made it clear that Im not chasing a quick fix here, just trying to best set myself up for success. I do feel like 1” of shaft change can be a lot when you’re trying to move strike position on the face by 10mm or so....

>

> I put a warp of tape on my driver grip, about an inch down from the butt. Im going to see if there is a meaningful improvement if I can be more consistent in actually gripping down on the club. Step 1!

>

>

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > Typically i believe that shorter drivers are mostly placebos. Changing from 45 to 44 for example is a 2.2% change in length. 46 to 44.5 is 3% change. This is a relatively small difference to be any kind of transformative change and i think it's mostly psychological for many. Same as people who say 445cc drivers are meaningfully smaller than 460cc

> >

> > The SLDR430 is one of the least forgiving drivers of the modern era. But nothing will fix a poor swing as even forgiveness is relative. If you can't keep a SLDR on the planet it's not like a G410+ will go straight

> >

> > Of the choices i think a new driver will help more. But a better swing is the only real solution

>

>

 

I think this is a good way to put it. You are trying to set yourself up for success and, no matter what you do with your swing, trying to use one of the more unforgiving heads you can find in the last few years sure isn't helping.

 

Also, I just noticed your club listing at the bottom of your signature, haha.

[GSDriver]

A 20 hdcp doesn't fit a SLDR too well....there's a reason those were short lived...like sweetspot size of a dime.

Get a more forgiving driver at your next fitting.

[GLG20]

I've been in this exact situation when I was >20. I had a SLDR as well and driving was part of my overall terrible game, it's hard to shoot good scores when you are hitting your second shot from the weeds, or behind trees because you are all over the place. My solution (other than the lessons I was doing) was to going from the SLDR to a Cobra FlyZ with a shorter shaft (this was a few years ago), from there I moved to a King F7 and now a Ping G400Max. It got me from the woods into the shorter grass and with lessons on the fairway a lot more often.

 

While it is the Indian and not the arrow, sometimes using easier arrows makes life better! And to this day I still keep the shaft shorter, playing at 44" right now.

[nsxguy]

> @Therty said:

>

> Its always been my belief that swing will override equipment. I think ive made it clear that Im not chasing a quick fix here, just trying to best set myself up for success. I do feel like 1” of shaft change can be a lot when you’re trying to move strike position on the face by 10mm or so....

>

> I put a warp of tape on my driver grip, about an inch down from the butt. Im going to see if there is a meaningful improvement if I can be more consistent in actually gripping down on the club. Step 1!

>

>

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > Typically i believe that shorter drivers are mostly placebos. Changing from 45 to 44 for example is a 2.2% change in length. 46 to 44.5 is 3% change. This is a relatively small difference to be any kind of transformative change and i think it's mostly psychological for many. Same as people who say 445cc drivers are meaningfully smaller than 460cc

> >

> > The SLDR430 is one of the least forgiving drivers of the modern era. But nothing will fix a poor swing as even forgiveness is relative. If you can't keep a SLDR on the planet it's not like a G410+ will go straight

> >

> > Of the choices i think a new driver will help more. But a better swing is the only real solution

>

>

 

While I don't agree with Jeff's notion of a "2" or "3" percent change in club length making any difference, or it being a "placebo", he's certainly right about the SLDR (and YOU know it yourself with the description in your signature).

 

Just my opinion but as a 20 handicapper who's been "afraid" to hit his driver for so long, gripping down on the SLDR won't help much, if at all. That driver is WAY too unforgiving for you to find any meaningful success by choking down a bit.

 

Dump it and buy something like a Ping G20 driver. You can find them on eBay for around $50. THEN try to choke down on the grip to make it a shorter length.

[Therty]

So I did some googling:

 

SLDR 430 has a **HIGHER** MOI than the SLDR 460 (surprise) but tops out at about 3800 (hence the lol in my signature, I guess) - here's the chart: https://public.tableau.com/views/2015DriverCGNAandMOI/DriverCGNA?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no&:host_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublic.tableau.com%2F&:tabs=no&:toolbar=yes&:animate_transition=yes&:display_static_image=no&:display_spinner=no&:display_overlay=yes&:display_count=no&:loadOrderID=1

 

Compare that the the 2017 drivers: https://public.tableau.com/views/2017-CG-DATA-CGNA/D-CGNA?:embed=y&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=no&:tabs=no

Not a single driver head with <3900 MOI. Wow. Quantifiably unforgiving....

 

And here's 2018: https://public.tableau.com/views/2018-CG-DATA-CGNA/D-CGNA?:embed=y&:embed_code_version=3&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=no&publish=yes

Taylormade 440cc head at the bottom again... interesting trend.

 

At least I know where to focus on the drivers out there which could help...

 

G400 Max

G400

G30

G

Rogue

Big Bertha Fusion

Epic Sub Zero?

F6

F7

F8

 

And just for fun - all of the drivers since 2015 on one chart: https://public.tableau.com/shared/NR5S84MBK?:display_count=no

 

Double LOL at the SLDR

[chigolfer1]

> @Therty said:

> So I did some googling:

>

> SLDR 430 has a **HIGHER** MOI than the SLDR 460 (surprise) but tops out at about 3800 (hence the lol in my signature, I guess) - here's the chart: https://public.tableau.com/views/2015DriverCGNAandMOI/DriverCGNA?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no&:host_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublic.tableau.com%2F&:tabs=no&:toolbar=yes&:animate_transition=yes&:display_static_image=no&:display_spinner=no&:display_overlay=yes&:display_count=no&:loadOrderID=1

>

> Compare that the the 2017 drivers: https://public.tableau.com/views/2017-CG-DATA-CGNA/D-CGNA?:embed=y&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=no&:tabs=no

> Not a single driver head with <3900 MOI. Wow. Quantifiably unforgiving....

>

> And here's 2018: https://public.tableau.com/views/2018-CG-DATA-CGNA/D-CGNA?:embed=y&:embed_code_version=3&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=no&publish=yes

> Taylormade 440cc head at the bottom again... interesting trend.

>

> At least I know where to focus on the drivers out there which could help...

 

lol at the G400max on the 2018 chart. I think that would qualify as an outlier? haha

[MtlJeff]

I don't believe any of that MOI data if it doesn't say the SLDR430 is the least forgiving driver of the last 15 years.

 

If you watch the "Ant Man and the Wasp" end credits, one of the things he finds in the Quantum Realm is the SLDR430's sweet spot

 

Heyyooooooo, i'll be here all week

[mogc60]

> @chigolfer1 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > Golf isn't an exact science so as a 20 HDCP player who can only get better, spending $500 on a new driver is a waste of money. There are 50 ways to skin a cat without blowing 500 on a club you hit 14x a round while shooting 100+ > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > @tsecor said:

> > > > Forget the new driver.....wasted money.....new shorter shaft and a few swing lessons....

> > >

> > > Disagree if he's keeping that driver head

> >

> >

>

> I think he can spend $250 - $300 on a couple years old driver that is going to give him way more forgiveness than what he's using.

I think he can spend 75-100 on a couple year old driver and under 50 on a couple year old heavier shaft and make the driver 43 1/2-44 inches and make some huge gains especially getting lessons. I swear if every player over a 15 handicap (I know there are a few that the driver isn’t the problem) would just get fitted for a shorter driver their game would improve so fast. When I used to teach I did a ton of driver alterations for students and the difference is night and day.