The Great Masters Heist

[BB28403]

> @golfandfishing said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

> >

> >

> > Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> > And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

>

> It is a totally fair system. The premium tickets that you are referring to go to entities that support the club far greater than those of us in the lottery.

>

I do not think you can think of Augusta as a little old club like Arnold's in Latrobe .

Augusta may be worth billions , easily.

 

[BB28403]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @redfirebird08 said:

> > Expected this to be about Tiger (and the 12th hole) stealing the jacket from Molinari/Koepka.

>

> It was more like they gave it to him...hitting in the water.

I agree

 

[golfandfishing]

And why is it worth billions?

[Arafel]

SJW logic on full exhibition here.

[bspn]

> @pmadden86 said:

> anyone know how these guys can sell masters tickets and ANGC are ok with it?

> https://www.yourgolftravel.com/us-masters

> Yet if i put in two applications at the same address and they find out, i get stiffed.

 

The likes of YGT no doubt have a commercial relationship under which they commit to X number of tickets at Y (inflated price) every year. They spend some serious coin on their hospitality facilities so I can't imagine they're doing anything that the ANGC isn't aware of and ok'd.

 

The bigger question is where all of the scalpers on Washington Road get their badges every year and I suspect the answer is somewhere nearer the scam that the OP referenced.

[Mr. Grumpy]

C'mon golf peasants,, they still feed you for 1.50

[farmer]

The son of a friend of mine works for a very large corporation that has a bundle of tickets every year. They rent a big house, have a cook, maids, the whole nine yards. They entertain customers/clients on a lavish scale. My friends son has been several times, as an in office perk.

[ChillyDipper]

> @golfandfishing said:

> Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

 

Late Stage Capitalism. On another note, I saw Wayne Player at this years Masters outside one of the outbuildings. He must have got himself into their good graces.

[BB28403]

> @"Mr. Grumpy" said:

> C'mon golf peasants,, they still feed you for 1.50

 

I can go down to Sam’s club too and buy the “Feed your Family” bucket of slop and some sliced bread, wrap it up in green contact paper and add a sticker.

 

Especially if someone gave me 15k for the week to come over to my house.

[Enduro59]

> @ChillyDipper said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

>

> Late Stage Capitalism. On another note, I saw Wayne Player at this years Masters outside one of the outbuildings. He must have got himself into their good graces.

 

What would be different if it were early stage capitalism or let's say early stage marxism?

[RobertBaron]

I guess I don’t really understand what the crime here is. As far as I can tell there’s 2 main facets. The first is these people gaming the system to gain access to tickets to a sporting event which I don’t really see any differently legally than someone using multiple friends and family credit cards to get access to pre-sale codes for concerts or whatever. Yea it sucks for people who can’t get tickets, it’s crappy to do but I don’t think it’s illegal. It’s not like getting tickets to something is a right.

 

The 2nd facet is the identity theft aspect. I could see this being a major crime if the perps were using these stolen identities to take out loans or credit cards or something that tangibly hurt or affected the real people behind the stolen identities. But in this case it appears they had no idea anything was even happening as it really had no affect on the “victims” (who it seems weren’t part of the Masters lottery).

 

Of course there are probably details of the case I’m missing and there’s a big part of me that loves playing Devil’s advocate regarding legal issues.

[ray9898]

> @RobertBaron said:

> I

>

> The 2nd facet is the identity theft aspect. I could see this being a major crime if the perps were using these stolen identities to take out loans or credit cards or something that tangibly hurt or affected the real people behind the stolen identities. But in this case it appears they had no idea anything was even happening as it really had no affect on the “victims” (who it seems weren’t part of the Masters lottery).

>

> Of course there are probably details of the case I’m missing and there’s a big part of me that loves playing Devil’s advocate regarding legal issues.

 

Just because you are not taking a fraudulent loans does not mean you just get to assume other people identities for your own schemes.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

LOL - "harmless" identity theft.

[golfandfishing]

 

> The 2nd facet is the identity theft aspect. I could see this being a major crime if the perps were using these stolen identities to take out loans or credit cards or something that tangibly hurt or affected the real people behind the stolen identities. But in this case it appears they had no idea anything was even happening as it really had no affect on the “victims” (who it seems weren’t part of the Masters lottery).

>

> Of course there are probably details of the case I’m missing and there’s a big part of me that loves playing Devil’s advocate regarding legal issues.

 

 

So that guy living in your attic above your daughter’s bedroom isn’t committing any real crime until he actually steals from you?

 

 

[Jc0]

> @RobertBaron said:

> I guess I don’t really understand what the crime here is. As far as I can tell there’s 2 main facets. The first is these people gaming the system to gain access to tickets to a sporting event which I don’t really see any differently legally than someone using multiple friends and family credit cards to get access to pre-sale codes for concerts or whatever. Yea it sucks for people who can’t get tickets, it’s **** to do but I don’t think it’s illegal. It’s not like getting tickets to something is a right.

>

> The 2nd facet is the identity theft aspect. I could see this being a major crime if the perps were using these stolen identities to take out loans or credit cards or something that tangibly hurt or affected the real people behind the stolen identities. But in this case it appears they had no idea anything was even happening as it really had no affect on the “victims” (who it seems weren’t part of the Masters lottery).

>

> Of course there are probably details of the case I’m missing and there’s a big part of me that loves playing Devil’s advocate regarding legal issues.

 

Go read the Masters ticket lottery page application requirements. What they did pretty much violates everything the tournament sets forth for lottery entry.

[L29]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

>

>

> Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

 

The quicker you learn that life is not fair, the sooner you become a happier person. Pick your battles on the unfair things in life-going to the Masters(leisure time activity) is probably not near the top of the list, although this is a golf lovers website so....

 

[RobertBaron]

> @Jc0 said:

> > @RobertBaron said:

> > I guess I don’t really understand what the crime here is. As far as I can tell there’s 2 main facets. The first is these people gaming the system to gain access to tickets to a sporting event which I don’t really see any differently legally than someone using multiple friends and family credit cards to get access to pre-sale codes for concerts or whatever. Yea it sucks for people who can’t get tickets, it’s **** to do but I don’t think it’s illegal. It’s not like getting tickets to something is a right.

> >

> > The 2nd facet is the identity theft aspect. I could see this being a major crime if the perps were using these stolen identities to take out loans or credit cards or something that tangibly hurt or affected the real people behind the stolen identities. But in this case it appears they had no idea anything was even happening as it really had no affect on the “victims” (who it seems weren’t part of the Masters lottery).

> >

> > Of course there are probably details of the case I’m missing and there’s a big part of me that loves playing Devil’s advocate regarding legal issues.

>

> Go read the Masters ticket lottery page application requirements. What they did pretty much violates everything the tournament sets forth for lottery entry.

 

Yabut that’s not illegal. Like you won’t go to prison for violating Augusta’s lottery requirements.

 

 

[golfgirlrobin]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

>

>

> Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

 

Uh, capitalism?

 

It’s the system in place, put in place by a private organization putting on an event on private property. That private club gets to distribute tickets any way they please that doesn’t violate the rights of a protected class (no tickets to Jews, for example). If they want to sell 100% of available tickets in premium ticket packages at high prices, that’s their right. Some generalized definition of fairness has nothing to do with it.

 

There is no charade, no one is pretending that all tickets are part of the lottery system. We’re all just knowingly taking our chances. Every time AN and the Feds enforce the law against people trying to game the system, our chances get a little bit better.

 

 

[golfandfishing]

> @RobertBaron said:

> > @Jc0 said:

> > > @RobertBaron said:

> > > I guess I don’t really understand what the crime here is. As far as I can tell there’s 2 main facets. The first is these people gaming the system to gain access to tickets to a sporting event which I don’t really see any differently legally than someone using multiple friends and family credit cards to get access to pre-sale codes for concerts or whatever. Yea it sucks for people who can’t get tickets, it’s **** to do but I don’t think it’s illegal. It’s not like getting tickets to something is a right.

> > >

> > > The 2nd facet is the identity theft aspect. I could see this being a major crime if the perps were using these stolen identities to take out loans or credit cards or something that tangibly hurt or affected the real people behind the stolen identities. But in this case it appears they had no idea anything was even happening as it really had no affect on the “victims” (who it seems weren’t part of the Masters lottery).

> > >

> > > Of course there are probably details of the case I’m missing and there’s a big part of me that loves playing Devil’s advocate regarding legal issues.

> >

> > Go read the Masters ticket lottery page application requirements. What they did pretty much violates everything the tournament sets forth for lottery entry.

>

> Yabut that’s not illegal. Like you won’t go to prison for violating Augusta’s lottery requirements.

>

>

Like most “news” headlines, this one is also inaccurate. These folks aren’t doing time because they broke a ticket policy. They are in legal trouble for forging federal documents, ID theft and likely also some wire and honest services fraud.

 

It’s like seeing a headline that says “teen killed for wearing a hoodie” and then reading the story about a 19 year old man killed by police after pulling a gun that was hidden inside his sweatshirt.

 

[DivinDave]

Man, the privileged get the tickets no matter what sport it is. Its not just the Masters. And probably those folks donate generously to this or that charity to get them. Nothing comes free. If they do donate, then good for them.

 

With that said, what really ticks me off is the legal scalping by Stub Hub and other ticket brokers. As a person, you are limited to how many tickets you can buy directly from the Event (Masters or otherwise) and that price is usually somewhat reasonable. So I wanna know how in hell do the brokers get the big blocks of tickets? And why is it legal for ticket brokers to increase the price into the stratosphere? I just dont get it.....

 

> @BB28403 said:

> > @CCTxGolf said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > @CCTxGolf said:

> > > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > > Just like Augusta to go after the little guy when there are larger corporations who abuse the system from the top.

> > > > > Anyone you know could have come up with that scheme. Instead of filing charges they could have just cancelled their tickets and warned them . It’s not like they will serve any time with a competent lawyer.

> > > > > Next years tickets will be double the cost if you do not win the so called “lottery”.

> > > >

> > > > I have to disagree. No telling how much money (tens of thousands of $$ I’m assuming) was illegally obtained due to this scheme. This is very big business not just a couple kids making up fake email addresses.

> > >

> > > And yet you don’t think the large corporations in Manhattan have back channels to get all their people to the masters? Where is the fair in that?

> > > I’m sure it’s these corporations complaining that joe blow gets to go , and so Augusta put the hurt on the white trash people with high speed DSL down in Texas.

> > > Prob going to send those passes straight to Goldman Sachs for next year.

> >

> > But the people at Goldman Sachs are paying for the tickets. The family in Texas is basically steeling the tickets.

> >

> > The only tickets that us common folk have a chance of obtaining are those in the lottery. These people made that pool much more crowded and hard to win.

> >

> > Goldman Sachs (or whoever else you are mad at) are always gonna get their tickets. And they are always going to pay handsomely for them.

> >

> > They (GS) are not **** you man. The people scamming the lottery are.

>

> I’m just saying the bigger issue is that people of privilege get first dibs on all the Masters tickets. So that is the problem Augusta should address.

 

 

[BB28403]

> @golfgirlrobin said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

> >

> >

> > Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> > And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

>

> Uh, capitalism?

>

> It’s the system in place, put in place by a private organization putting on an event on private property. That private club gets to distribute tickets any way they please that doesn’t violate the rights of a protected class (no tickets to Jews, for example). If they want to sell 100% of available tickets in premium ticket packages at high prices, that’s their right. Some generalized definition of fairness has nothing to do with it.

>

> There is no charade, no one is pretending that all tickets are part of the lottery system. We’re all just knowingly taking our chances. Every time AN and the Feds enforce the law against people trying to game the system, our chances get a little bit better.

>

>

 

It’s your attitude that once let kings reign. It’s my attitude that brought them to our level. Augusta is nothing but a business, they will do what we say. If we say it loud enough.

[Hawkeye77]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @golfgirlrobin said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

> > >

> > >

> > > Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> > > And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

> >

> > Uh, capitalism?

> >

> > It’s the system in place, put in place by a private organization putting on an event on private property. That private club gets to distribute tickets any way they please that doesn’t violate the rights of a protected class (no tickets to Jews, for example). If they want to sell 100% of available tickets in premium ticket packages at high prices, that’s their right. Some generalized definition of fairness has nothing to do with it.

> >

> > There is no charade, no one is pretending that all tickets are part of the lottery system. We’re all just knowingly taking our chances. Every time AN and the Feds enforce the law against people trying to game the system, our chances get a little bit better.

> >

> >

>

> It’s your attitude that once let kings reign. It’s my attitude that brought them to our level. Augusta is nothing but a business, they will do what we say. If we say it loud enough.

 

Your level? King George III

[JohnnyCashForever]

Comment withdrawn

 

 

[Birdie Mac]

> @DivinDave said:

> Man, the privileged get the tickets no matter what sport it is. Its not just the Masters. And probably those folks donate generously to this or that charity to get them. Nothing comes free. If they do donate, then good for them.

>

> **With that said, what really ticks me off is the legal scalping by Stub Hub and other ticket brokers. As a person, you are limited to how many tickets you can buy directly from the Event (Masters or otherwise) and that price is usually somewhat reasonable. So I wanna know how in **** do the brokers get the big blocks of tickets? And why is it legal for ticket brokers to increase the price into the stratosphere? I just dont get it..... **

>

> > @BB28403 said:

> > > @CCTxGolf said:

> > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > > @CCTxGolf said:

> > > > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > > > Just like Augusta to go after the little guy when there are larger corporations who abuse the system from the top.

> > > > > > Anyone you know could have come up with that scheme. Instead of filing charges they could have just cancelled their tickets and warned them . It’s not like they will serve any time with a competent lawyer.

> > > > > > Next years tickets will be double the cost if you do not win the so called “lottery”.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have to disagree. No telling how much money (tens of thousands of $$ I’m assuming) was illegally obtained due to this scheme. This is very big business not just a couple kids making up fake email addresses.

> > > >

> > > > And yet you don’t think the large corporations in Manhattan have back channels to get all their people to the masters? Where is the fair in that?

> > > > I’m sure it’s these corporations complaining that joe blow gets to go , and so Augusta put the hurt on the white trash people with high speed DSL down in Texas.

> > > > Prob going to send those passes straight to Goldman Sachs for next year.

> > >

> > > But the people at Goldman Sachs are paying for the tickets. The family in Texas is basically steeling the tickets.

> > >

> > > The only tickets that us common folk have a chance of obtaining are those in the lottery. These people made that pool much more crowded and hard to win.

> > >

> > > Goldman Sachs (or whoever else you are mad at) are always gonna get their tickets. And they are always going to pay handsomely for them.

> > >

> > > They (GS) are not **** you man. The people scamming the lottery are.

> >

> > I’m just saying the bigger issue is that people of privilege get first dibs on all the Masters tickets. So that is the problem Augusta should address.

>

>

Whoa Dave. Did you write this or me? Pretty sure I wrote it. Spot on anyway.

 

 

[tiderider]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @golfgirlrobin said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

> > >

> > >

> > > Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> > > And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

> >

> > Uh, capitalism?

> >

> > It’s the system in place, put in place by a private organization putting on an event on private property. That private club gets to distribute tickets any way they please that doesn’t violate the rights of a protected class (no tickets to Jews, for example). If they want to sell 100% of available tickets in premium ticket packages at high prices, that’s their right. Some generalized definition of fairness has nothing to do with it.

> >

> > There is no charade, no one is pretending that all tickets are part of the lottery system. We’re all just knowingly taking our chances. Every time AN and the Feds enforce the law against people trying to game the system, our chances get a little bit better.

> >

> >

>

> **It’s your attitude that once let kings reign. It’s my attitude that brought them to our level.** Augusta is nothing but a business, they will do what we say. If we say it loud enough.

 

what? ... good grief ... you gonna storm the club with a throng of protesters to demand access to a golf tournament? ... complaining about their ticket process and comparing it to the need to bring down a monarchy is the very definition of a first world problem ... probably the best example ever ...

 


 

[Hawkeye77]

Let them eat pimento cheese!

[Arafel]

Patriarchy!!!!

[Hawkeye77]

Palimony!

 

Posting as Lee Marvin.

[Steele47]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @golfgirlrobin said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > Privilege means first dibs - what good are privileges if you just have to wait and try your luck like everyone else? Allowing affluent customers to purchase premium badges is not a “problem”, there is nothing about that system to fix or address.

> > >

> > >

> > > Is that a fair system? Shouldn’t everyone have the same chance to attend the hottest tourney of the year.

> > > And if not, why should the people support this charade any longer?

> >

> > Uh, capitalism?

> >

> > It’s the system in place, put in place by a private organization putting on an event on private property. That private club gets to distribute tickets any way they please that doesn’t violate the rights of a protected class (no tickets to Jews, for example). If they want to sell 100% of available tickets in premium ticket packages at high prices, that’s their right. Some generalized definition of fairness has nothing to do with it.

> >

> > There is no charade, no one is pretending that all tickets are part of the lottery system. We’re all just knowingly taking our chances. Every time AN and the Feds enforce the law against people trying to game the system, our chances get a little bit better.

> >

> >

>

> It’s your attitude that once let kings reign. It’s my attitude that brought them to our level. Augusta is nothing but a business, they will do what we say. If we say it loud enough.

 

 

Yeah a lot of those King's were up to their ears in capitalism.

[HackerD]

> @DivinDave said:

> Man, the privileged get the tickets no matter what sport it is. Its not just the Masters. And probably those folks donate generously to this or that charity to get them. Nothing comes free. If they do donate, then good for them.

>

> With that said, what really ticks me off is the legal scalping by Stub Hub and other ticket brokers. As a person, you are limited to how many tickets you can buy directly from the Event (Masters or otherwise) and that price is usually somewhat reasonable. So I wanna know how in **** do the brokers get the big blocks of tickets? And why is it legal for ticket brokers to increase the price into the stratosphere? I just dont get it.....

>

> > @BB28403 said:

> > > @CCTxGolf said:

> > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > > @CCTxGolf said:

> > > > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > > > Just like Augusta to go after the little guy when there are larger corporations who abuse the system from the top.

> > > > > > Anyone you know could have come up with that scheme. Instead of filing charges they could have just cancelled their tickets and warned them . It’s not like they will serve any time with a competent lawyer.

> > > > > > Next years tickets will be double the cost if you do not win the so called “lottery”.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have to disagree. No telling how much money (tens of thousands of $$ I’m assuming) was illegally obtained due to this scheme. This is very big business not just a couple kids making up fake email addresses.

> > > >

> > > > And yet you don’t think the large corporations in Manhattan have back channels to get all their people to the masters? Where is the fair in that?

> > > > I’m sure it’s these corporations complaining that joe blow gets to go , and so Augusta put the hurt on the white trash people with high speed DSL down in Texas.

> > > > Prob going to send those passes straight to Goldman Sachs for next year.

> > >

> > > But the people at Goldman Sachs are paying for the tickets. The family in Texas is basically steeling the tickets.

> > >

> > > The only tickets that us common folk have a chance of obtaining are those in the lottery. These people made that pool much more crowded and hard to win.

> > >

> > > Goldman Sachs (or whoever else you are mad at) are always gonna get their tickets. And they are always going to pay handsomely for them.

> > >

> > > They (GS) are not **** you man. The people scamming the lottery are.

> >

> > I’m just saying the bigger issue is that people of privilege get first dibs on all the Masters tickets. So that is the problem Augusta should address.

>

>

 

It’s capitalism / supply and demand. Secondary market serves a purpose. You’re seeing NFL and other entities getting into the game by hosting resale of tickets. The part that sucks is the brokers getting in and snatching up large quantities of tickets.