Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[PoolPond]

Here's your definitive answer to the question. The LPGA girl will beat your scratch golfer day in and day out on whatever length course you want to put them on. 6500, no problem, 7100, no problem, 7500, they'll both have their issues but she'll beat him where it counts around and on the greens hole after hole. The difference between a scratch golfer and a professional player is more than a handicap number. Now if you want to bump up the amatures handicap to a +2 or so, then you'll start having good matches but a scratch 0.0 will get beat more times than not.

[Shilgy]

> @bogeypro said:

> > @Obee said:

> > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > @Obee said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > > > Here’s the problem here: people give a scratch golfer way too much credit. I play with scratch and better all the time. They are good, but not as consistent as a touring pro.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There’s a junior female golfer here that is a +7.3. She’s committed to Alabama and will be a very good LPGA pro one day. A very good example of a LPGA pro. No way that a scratch golfer hangs with her...even from the same tees.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here’s her ghin scores... look at those course ratings and scores.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I am always impressed by the last pros no doubt but I gotta ask, since I do not see those course ratings and slope on the card, are those ladies course ratings? I agree she would kick most guys rear but being +7.3 is misleading.

> > > >

> > > > Those are definitely women's ratings/slopes. Still, phenomenal scoring.

> > >

> > > Last summer, the women’s state am was held at my club. This girl had a 3 day total 195 and won. The same summer, the club had their club championship (3 days). The men’s club champion is the current back to back state mid am champion... he shot 209... and he’s a +4.5. The course played longer for the men, of course. The scratch male golfers shot around 220 in club championship. That’s a huge difference.... even if the course was longer.

> > >

> > > I’m telling you folks... a scratch won’t hang with LPGA.

> > >

> >

> > Just looked at the scores and the scorecard. The course has a men's rating of about 68.0 and a slope of about 118. A male scratch golfer is going to **average** about 70/71 on a course like that. His low scores will be 64's and 65's.

> >

> > And that is taking nothing away from Michaela. She is a fantastic golfer and will, likely, eventually be on the LPGA Tour.

>

> Ehhh, probably not 64 and 65. Most of the scratch guys can get to 68 on that course (not really much defenses). Lee Hodges (Canadian tour, young pga player) is also a member there. He has recently shot 59 or 60 (forget which one) there. So it’s easy to go low there.

>

> I’ll stand by my statement though... scratch male won’t compete with LPGA.

>

>

 

100% agree-that was not my point. The ladies are much better than many males give them credit for. An example from my point of view. I was a member at Moon Valley CC when the ladies event in Phoenix was played there for years. I was 0.0 or +1 at the time when Annika shot her 59. I had recently shot 67 and had a 30 on the front nine, also a 31 and a few 32's. the back was known amongst the better players as the more difficult nine and we expected the ladies to shoot a bit higher on that side thinking a 34 or so would be decent. Annika started on 10 and birdied her first 8 holes!!!

 

Granted that was one of the all time greats but the scores shot by others were phenomenal as well.

 

Bogey-from the tees Obee noted with 68.0 and 118 yes a scratch 0.0 cap will shoot some 64's and 65's. As Obee noted a player will average a couple over the handicap and beat it almost a quarter of the time. They will average 68 on their better half of scores. That is simply how the system works.

 

Found this link to the event you referred to The course was rated four the girls as 74.1/134 from 5816 yards. That is not anywhere near what it would be rated for the male player. So we really are talking two completely different animals. The lady pros are good but this young lady-while certainly a fine player, is likely in the scratch range if using male course ratings.

[Obee]

> @PoolPond said:

> Here's your definitive answer to the question. The LPGA girl will beat your scratch golfer day in and day out on whatever length course you want to put them on. 6500, no problem, 7100, no problem, 7500, they'll both have their issues but she'll beat him where it counts around and on the greens hole after hole. The difference between a scratch golfer and a professional player is more than a handicap number. Now if you want to bump up the amatures handicap to a +2 or so, then you'll start having good matches but a scratch 0.0 will get beat more times than not.

 

Yes, and that's what this thread was about: What's the real, quantifiable difference, on the same course, from similar tees, in similar conditions. Remove the emotion. Just the scores. :-)

[Obee]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bogeypro said:

> > > @Obee said:

> > > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > > @Obee said:

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > > > > Here’s the problem here: people give a scratch golfer way too much credit. I play with scratch and better all the time. They are good, but not as consistent as a touring pro.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There’s a junior female golfer here that is a +7.3. She’s committed to Alabama and will be a very good LPGA pro one day. A very good example of a LPGA pro. No way that a scratch golfer hangs with her...even from the same tees.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here’s her ghin scores... look at those course ratings and scores.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am always impressed by the last pros no doubt but I gotta ask, since I do not see those course ratings and slope on the card, are those ladies course ratings? I agree she would kick most guys rear but being +7.3 is misleading.

> > > > >

> > > > > Those are definitely women's ratings/slopes. Still, phenomenal scoring.

> > > >

> > > > Last summer, the women’s state am was held at my club. This girl had a 3 day total 195 and won. The same summer, the club had their club championship (3 days). The men’s club champion is the current back to back state mid am champion... he shot 209... and he’s a +4.5. The course played longer for the men, of course. The scratch male golfers shot around 220 in club championship. That’s a huge difference.... even if the course was longer.

> > > >

> > > > I’m telling you folks... a scratch won’t hang with LPGA.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Just looked at the scores and the scorecard. The course has a men's rating of about 68.0 and a slope of about 118. A male scratch golfer is going to **average** about 70/71 on a course like that. His low scores will be 64's and 65's.

> > >

> > > And that is taking nothing away from Michaela. She is a fantastic golfer and will, likely, eventually be on the LPGA Tour.

> >

> > Ehhh, probably not 64 and 65. Most of the scratch guys can get to 68 on that course (not really much defenses). Lee Hodges (Canadian tour, young pga player) is also a member there. He has recently shot 59 or 60 (forget which one) there. So it’s easy to go low there.

> >

> > I’ll stand by my statement though... scratch male won’t compete with LPGA.

> >

> >

>

> 100% agree-that was not my point. The ladies are much better than many males give them credit for. An example from my point of view. I was a member at Moon Valley CC when the ladies event in Phoenix was played there for years. I was 0.0 or +1 at the time when Annika shot her 59. I had recently shot 67 and had a 30 on the front nine, also a 31 and a few 32's. the back was known amongst the better players as the more difficult nine and we expected the ladies to shoot a bit higher on that side thinking a 34 or so would be decent. Annika started on 10 and birdied her first 8 holes!!!

>

> Granted that was one of the all time greats but the scores shot by others were phenomenal as well.

>

> Bogey-from the tees Obee noted with 68.0 and 118 yes a scratch 0.0 cap will shoot some 64's and 65's. As Obee noted a player will average a couple over the handicap and beat it almost a quarter of the time. They will average 68 on their better half of scores. That is simply how the system works.

>

> Found this link to the event you referred to The course was rated four the girls as 74.1/134 from 5816 yards. That is not anywhere near what it would be rated for the male player. So we really are talking two completely different animals. The lady pros are good but this young lady-while certainly a fine player, is likely in the scratch range if using male course ratings.

 

Probably a bit closer to a men's +2. She torched that course -- and with tournament pressure.

[PoolPond]

> @Obee said:

> > @PoolPond said:

> > Here's your definitive answer to the question. The LPGA girl will beat your scratch golfer day in and day out on whatever length course you want to put them on. 6500, no problem, 7100, no problem, 7500, they'll both have their issues but she'll beat him where it counts around and on the greens hole after hole. The difference between a scratch golfer and a professional player is more than a handicap number. Now if you want to bump up the amatures handicap to a +2 or so, then you'll start having good matches but a scratch 0.0 will get beat more times than not.

>

> Yes, and that's what this thread was about: What's the real, quantifiable difference, on the same course, from similar tees, in similar conditions. Remove the emotion. Just the scores. :-)

 

The difference is one is a person makes their living from playing golf and one doesn't. I don't know if you can quatify that but that's the difference. It's the ability to take your game to any course, any type of day, any time of day, any competitor, live out of a suitcase, travel endelessly and still shoot low score after low score. The scratch amateur simply can't comete against that. The reality is most scratch players play at the same course for the majority of their rounds, with the same guys under the same conditions and they are inconsistent. They might be able to shoot par but they'll also fire plenty of 75's. Many 0.0's will never break 70 from their regular tees. If they do, their cap won't stay 0.0. If the amateur in question is beyond those things (same course, same partner etc.) then the chances are their cap will be lower than scratch and they'd be considered a high level amateur and the scenario changes. But with a scratch, 0.0, it's not a question and the quatifiable difference on the same course etc. becomes the things I noted above.

[Shilgy]

> @Obee said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > @Obee said:

> > > > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > > > @Obee said:

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @bogeypro said:

> > > > > > > > Here’s the problem here: people give a scratch golfer way too much credit. I play with scratch and better all the time. They are good, but not as consistent as a touring pro.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There’s a junior female golfer here that is a +7.3. She’s committed to Alabama and will be a very good LPGA pro one day. A very good example of a LPGA pro. No way that a scratch golfer hangs with her...even from the same tees.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here’s her ghin scores... look at those course ratings and scores.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am always impressed by the last pros no doubt but I gotta ask, since I do not see those course ratings and slope on the card, are those ladies course ratings? I agree she would kick most guys rear but being +7.3 is misleading.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those are definitely women's ratings/slopes. Still, phenomenal scoring.

> > > > >

> > > > > Last summer, the women’s state am was held at my club. This girl had a 3 day total 195 and won. The same summer, the club had their club championship (3 days). The men’s club champion is the current back to back state mid am champion... he shot 209... and he’s a +4.5. The course played longer for the men, of course. The scratch male golfers shot around 220 in club championship. That’s a huge difference.... even if the course was longer.

> > > > >

> > > > > I’m telling you folks... a scratch won’t hang with LPGA.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Just looked at the scores and the scorecard. The course has a men's rating of about 68.0 and a slope of about 118. A male scratch golfer is going to **average** about 70/71 on a course like that. His low scores will be 64's and 65's.

> > > >

> > > > And that is taking nothing away from Michaela. She is a fantastic golfer and will, likely, eventually be on the LPGA Tour.

> > >

> > > Ehhh, probably not 64 and 65. Most of the scratch guys can get to 68 on that course (not really much defenses). Lee Hodges (Canadian tour, young pga player) is also a member there. He has recently shot 59 or 60 (forget which one) there. So it’s easy to go low there.

> > >

> > > I’ll stand by my statement though... scratch male won’t compete with LPGA.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 100% agree-that was not my point. The ladies are much better than many males give them credit for. An example from my point of view. I was a member at Moon Valley CC when the ladies event in Phoenix was played there for years. I was 0.0 or +1 at the time when Annika shot her 59. I had recently shot 67 and had a 30 on the front nine, also a 31 and a few 32's. the back was known amongst the better players as the more difficult nine and we expected the ladies to shoot a bit higher on that side thinking a 34 or so would be decent. Annika started on 10 and birdied her first 8 holes!!!

> >

> > Granted that was one of the all time greats but the scores shot by others were phenomenal as well.

> >

> > Bogey-from the tees Obee noted with 68.0 and 118 yes a scratch 0.0 cap will shoot some 64's and 65's. As Obee noted a player will average a couple over the handicap and beat it almost a quarter of the time. They will average 68 on their better half of scores. That is simply how the system works.

> >

> > Found this link to the event you referred to The course was rated four the girls as 74.1/134 from 5816 yards. That is not anywhere near what it would be rated for the male player. So we really are talking two completely different animals. The lady pros are good but this young lady-while certainly a fine player, is likely in the scratch range if using male course ratings.

>

> Probably a bit closer to a men's +2. She torched that course -- and with tournament pressure.

 

That is why I said scratch "range". I was not so inclined to attempt to calculate her scores to a male handicap as we do not know where the scores were made.

[Titleist_PT23]

A decent (not top but better than average) LPGA pro shot an 81 in the men's U.S. Open qualifier. Course was just under 7,200 yards.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/sports/golf/2019/05/13/lpga-star-ik-kim-plays-mens-u-s-open-qualifier-falls-short-81/1193572001/

[Obee]

Guy from my club got the last spot there with a 72.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> A decent (not top but better than average) LPGA pro shot an 81 in the men's U.S. Open qualifier. Course was just under 7,200 yards.

> https://www.desertsun.com/story/sports/golf/2019/05/13/lpga-star-ik-kim-plays-mens-u-s-open-qualifier-falls-short-81/1193572001/

 

 

[MountainGoat]

Maybe we could put this topic to rest by getting Tony Romo entered in some LPGA events.

 

[King_Slender]

> @MountainGoat said:

> Maybe we could put this topic to rest by getting Tony Romo entered in some LPGA events.

>

 

HAHA, best idea I've heard all year!

[DavePelz4]

> @MountainGoat said:

> Maybe we could put this topic to rest by getting Tony Romo entered in some LPGA events.

>

 

Tony Romo...a little smooth jazz...LPGA magic could happen.

[QuigleyDU]

> @cardoustie said:

> Obee .. get some implants and win this thing !!!!

 

That comment may get you a 3 day time out. hahaha.

[Obee]

So the ladies play this week at Wilshire. Have heard the course is in great shape. Will be reporting on the LPGA scores and then also the scratch guys who play in the Macbeth Invitational on Memorial Day Weekend.

 

Stay tuned if interested!

[aenemated]

35 minutes ago, Obee said:

So the ladies play this week at Wilshire. Have heard the course is in great shape. Will be reporting on the LPGA scores and then also the scratch guys who play in the Macbeth Invitational on Memorial Day Weekend.

 

Stay tuned if interested!

 

Awesome! Love watching this tournament. 

[DavePelz4]

56 minutes ago, Obee said:

So the ladies play this week at Wilshire. Have heard the course is in great shape. Will be reporting on the LPGA scores and then also the scratch guys who play in the Macbeth Invitational on Memorial Day Weekend.

 

Stay tuned if interested!

 

Not many on the LPGA will be hitting 6h's so you clearly have an advantage!

[Obee]

18 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

Awesome! Love watching this tournament. 

 

It really is great to play the exact same course that they play and in very similar conditions.

[aenemated]

19 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

It really is great to play the exact same course that they play and in very similar conditions.

 

Closest I ever got to playing it was driving by it on my commute every day for 2 years 🙂

[tacklingdummy]

The top LPGA pros would beat the middle aged scratch players and most scratch players. Not only are top LPGA player's ball striking more consistent, but they rarely lose strokes around the greens.

 

Perhaps, some scratch players could beat some lower ranked LPGA players occasionally, but not much. If I was to bet money on a player in a match, I would put my money on the LPGA players every time. More experience playing in competition and they play golf for a living. 

 

[95124hacker]

15-under to 8-over was the range of scores for the players who made the cut. Yardage: 6447.

 

https://www.lpga.com/tournaments/dio-implant-la-open/results

 

 

[Shilgy]

On 4/20/2022 at 12:58 PM, tacklingdummy said:

The top LPGA pros would beat the middle aged scratch players and most scratch players. Not only are top LPGA player's ball striking more consistent, but they rarely lose strokes around the greens.

 

Perhaps, some scratch players could beat some lower ranked LPGA players occasionally, but not much. If I was to bet money on a player in a match, I would put my money on the LPGA players every time. More experience playing in competition and they play golf for a living. 

 

Hers where it gets tougher to quantify…..the guys will be playing at Wilshire this week? Didn’t go back to see when @Obeesaid they were playing.  The issue I have is calling the guys entry scratch players.  I would guess many are well into the plus range.  No one argues a plus 3 or 4 could hang. Not with elite ladies week in week out but perhaps make some cuts.

[woodriff]

Is there a seniors category. I play to a 10. I could play to a 6. I was a 2.  With a knee replacement, resident pyhsio on board, and a putting coach I’m in. 
Truthfully a younger scratch would do well if he hit fairways. These gals are so accurate with woods and hybrids, and they keep the ball in play. 

[Obee]

16 hours ago, 95124hacker said:

15-under to 8-over was the range of scores for the players who made the cut. Yardage: 6447.

 

https://www.lpga.com/tournaments/dio-implant-la-open/results

 

 

And 3-over made the cut, so 145 (par 71).

 

We will play the course a bit longer than they played it. 150 to 250 longer. 
 

Greens should be a bit faster for us and pins usually a bit more tucked, but I will double check this. Will try to get pin sheets from the LPGA event this year if I can and double check stimp readings with the super.

[mosesgolf]

If the match was at a course with lots of trouble off the tee then LPGA 99.9%.  Old guy would have a chance vs lower ranked LPGA tour players and at courses without much trouble off the tee.  Highly skilled gals highly underrated by chauvenists on this site.  😅

[farmer]

Due to the way the hdcp system works, a middle aged scratch shoots a lot of 75's, and the occasional 80 gets thrown out.  Wichanee Meechai is 100th in scoring on the LPGA, and her average score is 72.62.  That number is based on 27 tournament scores, each round accounted for, tournament conditions and every single petty little rule followed.  A middle aged scratch might have a good day, catch her on a bad day, get a win, but not over four days.

[3whacker]

in all the years I was in and out of the business, I saw and played with guys that could flat out stripe it...on our home tracks...but taking their game on the road was a whole different story..most of the guys couldnt play anywhere near their handicap on an "away" venue.. we had a gal on staff that was a 4 time SNGA womens champ and she could beat most of the guys on staff from the blue tees..but even she couldnt make the LPGA tour....not all the ladies on Tour are  high quality but anybody who makes their living playing on just about any tour can handle any local single digit handicapper

[Obee]

1 hour ago, 3whacker said:

in all the years I was in and out of the business, I saw and played with guys that could flat out stripe it...on our home tracks...but taking their game on the road was a whole different story..most of the guys couldnt play anywhere near their handicap on an "away" venue.. we had a gal on staff that was a 4 time SNGA womens champ and she could beat most of the guys on staff from the blue tees..but even she couldnt make the LPGA tour....not all the ladies on Tour are  high quality but anybody who makes their living playing on just about any tour can handle any local single digit handicapper

 

Oh yes, we know this, but the cool thing is that this is a real nice almost perfectly "apples to apples" scenario due to the course conditions, same time of year, etc. We can see (almost) exactly what the difference is because of that. In addition, virtually all of the guys playing, this is an away tournament for them. They have either never played the course, or they only play it once a year in this tournament. Good stuff and always fun to do a respectful, "golfy" comparison.

[Obee]

So here are the indexes for the male "scratch" players we will be comparing against the ladies this year. There are three columns:

 

1) Current Index (as of 2022.05.03)

2) Low index of the past 12 months

3) An estimated "average" index during those 12 months: Low Index + High Index) / 2 = ~Avg. Index

 

Should be a blast. The first two days are better-ball of partner, so you aren't holing out on every hole, necessarily. The final round, on Sunday, is pure aggregate, so everyone holing out on every hole.

 

Going to get some info from the superintendent and the Director of Golf on the set-up for the LPGA event versus the Macbeth (pin locations, stimp readings, etc.)

 

 

 

[Ralphyboy84]

I’ve made this comment in here before and I think it’s worth making again. 
 

I’m a member at Carnoustie. My current index is 0.2. I’ve been as low as -2.6 and have been scratch or lower for the last 15 years. I’ve won 2 Club Championships at Carnoustie as well as playing 5 Scottish Amateurs 
 

Carnoustie has hosted 2 Womens Opens recently, including last years won by Anna Nordqvist. 
 

The tees the girls played was pretty close to the equivalent of our white tees. Course rating 75.2. Slope rating 139. 
 

Nordqvist won with a score of -12 for 4 rounds. 41 of the girls who made the cut were par or better. 
 

The highest scoring pro in the field for the first 2 rounds, shot 2 78s, giving her a score differential of 2.3 for that round (easy for me to work out since that’s what I scored at the weekend….)

 

For comparison Anna Nordqvist for the week was:

1 - 71 - -3.4

2 - 71 - -3.4

3 - 65 - -8.2

4 - 69 - -5.0

 

Thats an average of -5.0. For 4 rounds, under the highest pressure a woman golfer can play under, on 1 of the hardest golf courses in the world. Does anyone still think a mens scratch can compete with that?

 

I genuinely think it’s quite preposterous to think that a scratch handicapper could compete with an LPGA tour professional over 4 rounds. These girls are outrageously good. I’ve been playing Carnoustie for over 20 years and the thought of being able to shoot the scores they did over 4 rounds, under tournament pressure and conditions? Yeah that’s not going to happen. It’s never going to happen under any circumstances. And that’s me on a course I’ve played thousands of times and know like the back of my hand. These girls come here, couple of practice rounds and then go make it look so stupidly easy.

 

There’s a couple of guys in Carnoustie who are real low, I’m taking +4/5 and if everything went their way, they might finish top 40. Might. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Ralphyboy84

[Obee]

53 minutes ago, Ralphyboy84 said:

I’ve made this comment in here before and I think it’s worth making again. 
 

I’m a member at Carnoustie. My current index is 0.2. I’ve been as low as -2.6 and have been scratch or lower for the last 15 years. I’ve won 2 Club Championships at Carnoustie as well as playing 5 Scottish Amateurs 
 

Carnoustie has hosted 2 Womens Opens recently, including last years won by Anna Nordqvist. 
 

The tees the girls played was pretty close to the equivalent of our white tees. Course rating 75.2. Slope rating 139. 
 

Nordqvist won with a score of -12 for 4 rounds. 41 of the girls who made the cut were par or better. 
 

The highest scoring pro in the field for the first 2 rounds, shot 2 78s, giving her a score differential of 2.3 for that round (easy for me to work out since that’s what I scored at the weekend….)

 

For comparison Anna Nordqvist for the week was:

1 - 71 - -3.4

2 - 71 - -3.4

3 - 65 - -8.2

4 - 69 - -5.0

 

Thats an average of -5.0. For 4 rounds, under the highest pressure a woman golfer can play under, on 1 of the hardest golf courses in the world. Does anyone still think a mens scratch can compete with that?

 

I genuinely think it’s quite preposterous to think that a scratch handicapper could compete with an LPGA tour professional over 4 rounds. These girls are outrageously good. I’ve been playing Carnoustie for over 20 years and the thought of being able to shoot the scores they did over 4 rounds, under tournament pressure and conditions? Yeah that’s not going to happen. It’s never going to happen under any circumstances. And that’s me on a course I’ve played thousands of times and know like the back of my hand. These girls come here, couple of practice rounds and then go make it look so stupidly easy.

 

There’s a couple of guys in Carnoustie who are real low, I’m taking +4/5 and if everything went their way, they might finish top 40. Might. 

This thread is to give a real good look at what the difference is, RalphyBoy. That's all it is. No one's saying that a male scratch can beat an LPGA player over four rounds. At least I'm sure not saying that.

 

This is about as close a comparison as you're going to get, though: Same course. Similar conditions. Tournament prepped. Similar time of year. It's a bit longer for us, but that's it. If this thread somehow offends you, you should probably just steer clear. I have no idea why it would, when my stated goal is clear: Have a fun, yet quite accurate comparison between a group of scratch"ish" ams and the LPGAers who tee it up at Wilshire. No, there's no "Playing for a living" pressure on the ams, but it sure is pressure for many of the guys playing on aggregate day, I can tell you that! 😉

 

And keep in mind, we're not talking about just the winners, but the whole field -- including those who missed the cut. The cut was +2 at the Women's Open. Could you shoot 73, 73? Have you done that before? From 6,850? I'm guessing you have -- quite a few times, actually.

 

On second thought, do you have the scores from your club championships over the years? I'm guessing that plenty of ams have gone around in right around par for two rounds before from 6,850. Probably quite a few scores of 73, 74, 79. Or 80, 71, 75, etc. Do you have any scores from prior years? I'm sure there were years when the weather was brutal and scores where high, and other years where the weather cooperated and scores were reasonable. Would love to know, actually.

 

Anyhoo, not sure why you get so seemingly offended by this thread. There is zero ill will here. It's golf, and questions of "how big is the gap between _____ and ______" have been around forever. That's one of the coolest things about golf, actually: We all play the same courses, so it's fun to compare -- at least for some of us.... 

[Ralphyboy84]

And you are welcome to use your data from this competition at Wilshire Country Club to do your comparison. All I wanted to do was use my own data and experience to add to the discussion. 
 

In my opinion, the difference between a male scratch and LPGA tour professional is enormous and I believe my data above shows that to be the case. I think every professional in the field last year is a better player than me. 
 

I have no issue with you disagreeing with me if you believe otherwise