Theory from an amateur

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Joined:  edited Apr 25, 2019 in Instruction & Academy #1

Watching some pros and some people on YouTube. I have this theory that turning your shoulders as fast as you can is a big key element.
Let's pretend we do not have arms, and we are just trying to turn our shoulders as fast as we can.
At address: push that left shoulder down as hard as you can while pulling that right shoulder back and up towards the sky as you can.
At the top:
Now reverse this and push* that right shoulder down and thru the impact zone and pull that left shoulder up and back towards the sky .
Without even engaging the arms we can get our shoulders to impressive speeds.
One of the keys here is that the pushing and pulling are independent of each other. You must use your muscles to focus on one (pulling) and other muscles to focus on the other (pushing).
Now engage the arms and figure out where they go in your swing.
Musings from an amateur... lol

Is this a sound excercise?

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  • lhahnlhahn Members  497WRX Points: 122Handicap: highPosts: 497 Greens
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    I feel like you'd be super stuck if you did this as described

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  • BigBadBigBad Members  152WRX Points: 103Posts: 152 Fairways
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    The intent of the hands solves everything. The problem is most of us have bad intentions. Imagine any other athletic movement focusing on shoulders or hips. Humans are not wired this way.

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9261WRX Points: 2,901Posts: 9,261 Titanium Tees
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    Without going into the pivot/tilts this doesn't really make much sense.

    And right shoulder down immediately as a down swing thought isn't what happens in good swings and can be an absolute disaster (speaking from experience).

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  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3880WRX Points: 850Handicap: 9Posts: 3,880 Titanium Tees
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    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers  6026WRX Points: 766Posts: 6,026 Titanium Tees
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    I sometimes focus on shoulder speed... but a lot of things need to be in place for it to work, and it's never really stayed as a basic feel over time. That doesn't mean it isn't worth while, but just that it seems downstream from a bunch of other basics.

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  • BB28403BB28403 Members  4279WRX Points: 755Handicap: This post may not be here soon as moderators may delete it to free up space. Be concerned... you may be next...Posts: 4,279 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

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    Here’s some mad shoulder skills for you peoples
    https://www.instagram.com/andreaskaligolf/p/BwrMdtIBQR0/?igshid=1erqwxgv70n7n

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  • ScratchyDawgScratchyDawg Members  378WRX Points: 106Posts: 378 Greens
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    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Posted:
    "Give up control to gain control" - George Knudson
  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3880WRX Points: 850Handicap: 9Posts: 3,880 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Stenson says his one swing thought is to get right shoulder to target as fast as possible. So there's that..

    Posted:
  • ScratchyDawgScratchyDawg Members  378WRX Points: 106Posts: 378 Greens
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    On -, @Nard_S said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Stenson says his one swing thought is to get right shoulder to target as fast as possible. So there's that..

    When did he say that?

    Posted:
    "Give up control to gain control" - George Knudson
  • juststevejuststeve Members  5184WRX Points: 546Posts: 5,184 Titanium Tees
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    In each case in post #8 the arms are moving faster than the shoulders. If you don't get the arms moving faster than the shoulders, ie. swinging from the shoulder sockets, you're just not going to hit the ball very far. On the other hand, speed in the arms will result in speed in the shoulders.

    Steve

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    Tried my theory today at the range and wow. It works pretty well when you get all the other stuff in sync and keep the body quiet.

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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21439WRX Points: 5,399Posts: 21,439 ClubWRX
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    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Stenson says his one swing thought is to get right shoulder to target as fast as possible. So there's that..

    When did he say that?

    Here’s what he said last year. https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/tips-and-tuition/iron-play/video-tips/2018/january/henrik-stenson-ball-striking-tips
    Who knows with swing thoughts.

    Posted:
  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3880WRX Points: 850Handicap: 9Posts: 3,880 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Stenson says his one swing thought is to get right shoulder to target as fast as possible. So there's that..

    When did he say that?

    He was quoted as saying that like a year ago. If you watch him, it pretty much fits.

    Posted:
  • BB28403BB28403 Members  4279WRX Points: 755Handicap: This post may not be here soon as moderators may delete it to free up space. Be concerned... you may be next...Posts: 4,279 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Hawkeye77 said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Stenson says his one swing thought is to get right shoulder to target as fast as possible. So there's that..

    When did he say that?

    Here’s what he said last year. https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/tips-and-tuition/iron-play/video-tips/2018/january/henrik-stenson-ball-striking-tips
    Who knows with swing thoughts.

    Henrik swing thought “crush the 3 wood! Crush the 3 wood! Crush the 3 wood!!!!!”

    Posted:
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16676WRX Points: 945Handicap: Low-Mid SDPosts: 16,676 Titanium Tees
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    I am more aligned with "Stenson's" belief, proper setup and overall swing and body synchronization. I use my body strength to hit the ball as opposed to being a swinger.

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    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    I am more aligned with "Stenson's" belief, proper setup and overall swing and body synchronization. I use my body strength to hit the ball as opposed to being a swinger.

    It's Pete cowens teachings as Stensons swing coach. Henrik is struggling so much lately. I dunno if it's stenson or have the new guys eclipsed him.

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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16676WRX Points: 945Handicap: Low-Mid SDPosts: 16,676 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    I am more aligned with "Stenson's" belief, proper setup and overall swing and body synchronization. I use my body strength to hit the ball as opposed to being a swinger.

    It's Pete cowens teachings as Stensons swing coach. Henrik is struggling so much lately. I dunno if it's stenson or have the new guys eclipsed him.

    IMO - when someone makes a career out of golf or another sport he or she is bound to encounter off or dry periods. It's the nature of doing anything for a long time. That also sheds light on the importance and challenge of hanging in there when the going gets tough. No different when running a national company. Some years are fantastic, other years not so good. We learn from them. Not sure youth has much to do with the likes of Stenson or anyone else for that matter. Plus, he's like other tour players, even when they are off the bubble, their still making a dam good living.

    Posted:
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  • ScratchyDawgScratchyDawg Members  378WRX Points: 106Posts: 378 Greens
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    On -, @Hawkeye77 said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    On -, @ScratchyDawg said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Nard_S said:

    Well, the general idea of generating shoulder speed is a good one. Watch the Pro's especially power hitters they have tremendous shoulder speed.

    Yeah they friggin whip those shoulders . I can’t even see Kokrak’s golf shaft fly thru the air !

    I guarantee they aren't thinking about how quickly they are turning their shoulders.

    Stenson says his one swing thought is to get right shoulder to target as fast as possible. So there's that..

    When did he say that?

    Here’s what he said last year. https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/tips-and-tuition/iron-play/video-tips/2018/january/henrik-stenson-ball-striking-tips
    Who knows with swing thoughts.

    Nothing about the right shoulder moving fast.

    Posted:
    "Give up control to gain control" - George Knudson
  • Gamble GambleGamble Gamble #TwistFaceExperience ClubWRX  3602WRX Points: 184Posts: 3,602 ClubWRX
    Joined:  edited Apr 26, 2019 #21

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    Here’s some mad shoulder skills for you peoples
    https://www.instagram.com/andreaskaligolf/p/BwrMdtIBQR0/?igshid=1erqwxgv70n7n

    Maybe this is some weird golf Rorschach Test but the shoulders dont seem to move that fast.

    Here are the similarities i see with those golfers:

    • they maintain their spine tilt
    • they get their right shoulder working out to the ball, not down into their side
    • they finish in balance with the weight on the lead heel
    Posted:
  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3880WRX Points: 850Handicap: 9Posts: 3,880 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Gamble Gamble said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    Here’s some mad shoulder skills for you peoples
    https://www.instagram.com/andreaskaligolf/p/BwrMdtIBQR0/?igshid=1erqwxgv70n7n

    Maybe this is some weird golf Rorschach Test but the shoulders dont seem to move that fast.

    Here are the similarities i see with those golfers:

    • they maintain their spine tilt
    • they get their right shoulder working out to the ball, not down into their side
    • they finish in balance with the weight on the lead heel

    I'm relating what I heard him say, that's all. Btw, go look at Jack in young days, massive shoulder speed, Norman too. Ams come no where close.

    Posted:
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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4107WRX Points: 710Posts: 4,107 Titanium Tees
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    Posted:

    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • BB28403BB28403 Members  4279WRX Points: 755Handicap: This post may not be here soon as moderators may delete it to free up space. Be concerned... you may be next...Posts: 4,279 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Gamble Gamble said:

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    Here’s some mad shoulder skills for you peoples
    https://www.instagram.com/andreaskaligolf/p/BwrMdtIBQR0/?igshid=1erqwxgv70n7n

    Maybe this is some weird golf Rorschach Test but the shoulders dont seem to move that fast.

    Here are the similarities i see with those golfers:

    • they maintain their spine tilt
    • they get their right shoulder working out to the ball, not down into their side
    • they finish in balance with the weight on the lead heel

    Maybe shoulder path would be a good description? Since the “Gears” system is the new Thing. One could trace how the shoulders or shoulder bones move into position. And how quickly they get there.
    And how quickly they unwind in the downswing.
    It is a hard area of the body to describe .

    Posted:
  • ZitlowZitlow Members  603WRX Points: 206Posts: 603 Golden Tee
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    It isn't about body speed, it's about club head speed. When you throw a baseball or football do you use body speed as the primary force?

    Posted:
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    On -, @Zitlow said:

    It isn't about body speed, it's about club head speed. When you throw a baseball or football do you use body speed as the primary force?

    What makes the club move? The body.
    What makes the club move fast? The body.
    The faster it moves ...

    Posted:
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    Video showing how to swing as I describe. Was doing this yesterday $$$

    Posted:
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  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Members  509WRX Points: 98Posts: 509 Golden Tee
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    If this is your swing, can I be on your bag???

    On -, @BB28403 said:

    Video showing how to swing as I describe. Was doing this yesterday $$$
    Posted:
  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3880WRX Points: 850Handicap: 9Posts: 3,880 Titanium Tees
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    I think a bigger issue for mortals is how do you get the body more open at impact. Sequence, geometry, speed are all part of it. Pro's have their shoulders 15-20 degrees more open at contact, they create the space to unload arm speed in the right direction consistently. Not a big deal to swing 110, the big deal is to do it correctly. My sole focus past month is getting shoulder tilt, left & right bend of torso better. In short, holding upper spine center while, turning shoulders on plane. Has greatly improved driving metals & impact of irons but it's still bleeding in. There's a number of adjustments to make to do this right. Getting right shoulder back through to impact is the hardest part of the golf swing in my opinion. There are very few amateurs who do it correctly, I've seen exactly 2 guys in the last few years who do it right.

    Posted:
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9261WRX Points: 2,901Posts: 9,261 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @BB28403 said:

    On -, @Zitlow said:

    It isn't about body speed, it's about club head speed. When you throw a baseball or football do you use body speed as the primary force?

    What makes the club move? The body.
    What makes the club move fast? The body.
    The faster it moves ...

    It's not just the body, it's the arms and the body working in unison. The body needs to move to make room for the arms. If you move the body too fast without syncing the arms you'll swing slower.

    Posted:
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    On -, @Nard_S said:

    I think a bigger issue for mortals is how do you get the body more open at impact. Sequence, geometry, speed are all part of it. Pro's have their shoulders 15-20 degrees more open at contact, they create the space to unload arm speed in the right direction consistently. Not a big deal to swing 110, the big deal is to do it correctly. My sole focus past month is getting shoulder tilt, left & right bend of torso better. In short, holding upper spine center while, turning shoulders on plane. Has greatly improved driving metals & impact of irons but it's still bleeding in. There's a number of adjustments to make to do this right. Getting right shoulder back through to impact is the hardest part of the golf swing in my opinion. There are very few amateurs who do it correctly, I've seen exactly 2 guys in the last few years who do it right.

    I feel it is like a baseball swing and getting around on a 90mph fastball (the same feeling, different movements) That's how I get open. It's fast, it is jarring and there is a Whip.

    Also learning that fitness helps your body not break down and become injured doing this stuff. Definitely do TPI everyone.

    Posted:
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