Theory from an amateur

[BB28403]

> @Nard_S said:

> I think a bigger issue for mortals is how do you get the body more open at impact. Sequence, geometry, speed are all part of it. Pro's have their shoulders 15-20 degrees more open at contact, they create the space to unload arm speed in the right direction consistently. Not a big deal to swing 110, the big deal is to do it correctly. My sole focus past month is getting shoulder tilt, left & right bend of torso better. In short, holding upper spine center while, turning shoulders on plane. Has greatly improved driving metals & impact of irons but it's still bleeding in. There's a number of adjustments to make to do this right. Getting right shoulder back through to impact is the hardest part of the golf swing in my opinion. There are very few amateurs who do it correctly, I've seen exactly 2 guys in the last few years who do it right.

 

I feel it is like a baseball swing and getting around on a 90mph fastball (the same feeling, different movements) That's how I get open. It's fast, it is jarring and there is a Whip.

 

Also learning that fitness helps your body not break down and become injured doing this stuff. Definitely do TPI everyone.

 

[ScratchyDawg]

> @Nard_S said:

> I think a bigger issue for mortals is how do you get the body more open at impact. Sequence, geometry, speed are all part of it. **Pro's have their shoulders 15-20 degrees more open at contact**, they create the space to unload arm speed in the right direction consistently. Not a big deal to swing 110, the big deal is to do it correctly. My sole focus past month is getting shoulder tilt, left & right bend of torso better. In short, holding upper spine center while, turning shoulders on plane. Has greatly improved driving metals & impact of irons but it's still bleeding in. There's a number of adjustments to make to do this right. Getting right shoulder back through to impact is the hardest part of the golf swing in my opinion. There are very few amateurs who do it correctly, I've seen exactly 2 guys in the last few years who do it right.

Not necessarily. The position of the arms will affect how open the shoulders should be at impact.

 

[oikos1]

Correct shoulder movement would be a better focus than shoulder speed. A good sequence should take care of shoulder speed without having to think about it.

 

"Move the shoulders as fast as you can" as a swing thought for ams seems like a recipe for swing path disasters.

[Nard_S]

I notice a lot of hard bangers with shoulder "quit" in their swing. You just do not see that with top level swings. It's a complex concoction to have that. Pro's ARE more open at impact than ams, plain fact. I have all the arm speed anyone needs, rely on it too much, what I've always lacked was good geometry and proper triggering of core. Much of what I've been working on for a long time is bringing both body and arms into a better balance, the not so odd thing is the more I noodle and pay attention to what's going on nearer to spine, the better things look at end of club. The zone of joints & muscles from knees to shoulders is where I'm mulling about, you improve that shoulder speed by default gets higher as does everything else.

[Zitlow]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @Zitlow said:

> > It isn't about body speed, it's about club head speed. When you throw a baseball or football do you use body speed as the primary force?

>

> What makes the club move? The body.

> What makes the club move fast? The body.

> The faster it moves ...

 

Watch how her legs and body brace up as she releases the softball.

 

 

Hammer throw, watch him brace up as he releases the hammer.

 

 

 

[BB28403]

> @Zitlow said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > > @Zitlow said:

> > > It isn't about body speed, it's about club head speed. When you throw a baseball or football do you use body speed as the primary force?

> >

> > What makes the club move? The body.

> > What makes the club move fast? The body.

> > The faster it moves ...

>

> Watch how her legs and body brace up as she releases the softball.

>

>

>

> Hammer throw, watch him brace up as he releases the hammer.

>

>

>

>

 

What are you arguing at this point? What are you trying to get across?

[mukster]

You guys think too much! :smiley:

[BB28403]

Ain’t that the truth!

[Zitlow]

They think too much because of the overload of golf instruction. The golf swing is a synergistic motion. The shoulders turn in preparation for the release not as the primary power source.

[BB28403]

> @Zitlow said:

> They think too much because of the overload of golf instruction. The golf swing is a synergistic motion.

 

I do think people get lost in the p4..p6...p7 movements.

But your brain can and will pick up those slow movements.

 

Then, like you say, they turn the slow movements into fast and fluid motion.

 

Don’t you think an Olympic shot putter and a pro softball player has trained slowly with an instructor for their entire childhood and into adulthood? Had THE best technology available?

Because they do train that way. Golf is not on the cutting edge of technology , if anything Golf gets it pretty late compared to other sports, especially the Olympics which are the pinnacle of human sports development.

[hacker49]

> @Nard_S said:

> I think a bigger issue for mortals is how do you get the body more open at impact.

 

I have a real problem with this. My hips seems to stall once they get back to address position. This leads me to have to flip my hands at the last minute to make contact. I have been working hard on keeping my in front but if my body stalls there comes the flip.

 

 

[BB28403]

> @hacker49 said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > I think a bigger issue for mortals is how do you get the body more open at impact.

>

> I have a real problem with this. My hips seems to stall once they get back to address position. This leads me to have to flip my hands at the last minute to make contact. I have been working hard on keeping my in front but if my body stalls there comes the flip.

>

>

 

Pretend you are chopping an axe into the side of a tree. Grab your imaginary axe and really work on that tree! Watch what your hips do. Go in slow motion after a fast strike.

 

It’s the same , hitting a hockey puck, baseball.

With them all we are leaning somewhat and letting that axe smack into the tree

 

Key tree thought is “put the axe thru the tree, you want to go thru that tree”

[hacker49]

> @BB28403 said:

> Pretend you are chopping an axe into the side of a tree. Grab your imaginary axe and really work on that tree! Watch what your hips do. Go in slow motion after a fast strike.

> Key tree thought is “put the axe thru the tree, you want to go thru that tree”

 

Yeah, I know the motion. On my practice swings I can rotate the hips through all day long but my real swings tend to stall.

 

Having taken martial arts for years and learning hit through the board as opposed to the board one would think that would be impounded in my brain but I can't seem to get it to translate. This is especially evident on my chip/pitch shots where I have a tendency to hit AT the ball instead of THROUGH the ball. It's just something I really need to work on.