Tommy Armour 985 iron lofts

[ALIF]

Wondering if anyone here knows the specs of the lofts of the MacGregor Tommy Armour 985 irons. I have 2-10 irons. These are the ones from the late 40's to early 50's. if I were to guess, I'd think the 9 iron is about 48*. Any help is truly appreciated.

[guisician]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1355027585' post='6040469']
Wondering if anyone here knows the specs of the lofts of the MacGregor Tommy Armour 985 irons. I have 2-10 irons. These are the ones from the late 40's to early 50's. if I were to guess, I'd think the 9 iron is about 48*. Any help is truly appreciated.
[/quote]

Sorry, no loft info on these in Kaplan's MacGregor book. and Google has come up empty as well. . .

[ALIF]

Thanks for looking. I'll have to take them into the shop to get measured.

[xgolfx]

There is a great misconception about MacGregor iron lofts. There were none. I have the Toney Penna spec sheet for the 1965 985 irons . Lofts never appears on the instructions. 38 1/2 2iron, d2 predominate swing weight, .185 thin top line, original Armour grind, regular soles, but no lofts

CHARLEY PENNA

[ALIF]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1355157166' post='6046303']
There is a great misconception about MacGregor iron lofts. There were none. I have the Toney Penna spec sheet for the 1965 985 irons . Lofts never appears on the instructions. 38 1/2 2iron, d2 predominate swing weight, .185 thin top line, original Armour grind, regular soles, but no lofts

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Thanks Charley. I'll just have to measure them.

[Shallowface]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1355157166' post='6046303']
There is a great misconception about MacGregor iron lofts. There were none. I have the Toney Penna spec sheet for the 1965 985 irons . Lofts never appears on the instructions. 38 1/2 2iron, d2 predominate swing weight, .185 thin top line, original Armour grind, regular soles, but no lofts

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Charley, is that because loft was something that just never changed for stock clubs and everybody in the building knew by heart that, for instance, a nine iron was supposed to be a X degrees regardless of the model?

[xgolfx]

There was a generally accepted loft for each club. However, you must remember that there were pro only clubs at that time . Most of the club professionals had their own specs or ordered , thus the designation OS on the hozel.

CHARLEY PENNA

['53 Precision]

Mr. Penna,

What would the letters OP on the ferrule indicate?

[xgolfx]

I do not know .Iron or wood, and type.?

CHARLEY PENNA

['53 Precision]

Irons, and appear to be 1955 or so Colokrom 945 or 925 series.

[attachment=2304317:Colokrom Iron.jpg]
[attachment=2304319:Colokrom Iron 2.jpg]

[Ironmaster Oddities]

Cool.
Personalized sets and putters are relatively rare. You just never know when they will show up or What name will be stamped on them.
As Toney Penna has shared before, a few of the pros at bigger country clubs in the metro areas would get a discount on an order of a bunch of sets during the off season.
They would get special terms for keeping the factory running in winter. They would also get their name or signature stamped on woods, irons or putters at no charge.
Costs to tool the personalized stamp was around 200 bucks or so. So individual golfers or small town pros could not afford to do it. So whenever you see these clubs, you can bet they were from a big city pro, or someone willing to pay more for his personal stamp than the cost of a complete set of clubs.
do they have an OS serial #. I would think so.
If you find any Ironmaster putters like that, call me, please.
Uncle Bob

[xgolfx]

[quote name=''53 Precision' timestamp='1404322964' post='9624293']
Irons, and appear to be 1955 or so Colokrom 945 or 925 series.

[attachment=2304317:Colokrom Iron.jpg]
[attachment=2304319:Colokrom Iron 2.jpg]
[/quote]

Terry Dillon was from Chicago. He was a close friend of my dad. He was also close to Sam Snead. Sam has a son named Terrance Dillon Snead. The cost of the signature stamp was picked up by MacGregor most of the time. I have one of my dad's stamps

CHARLEY PENNA

['53 Precision]

Uncle Bob, Mr. Penna, thank you both for the information, it is greatly appreciated. Mr. Penna, am I correct in my guess of general year and are they 945/925's? I don't have them yet, but the Serial # is S2626OP any information y'all can give me from this information would also be greatly appreciated.

[xgolfx]

[quote name=''53 Precision' timestamp='1404348446' post='9626941']
Uncle Bob, Mr. Penna, thank you both for the information, it is greatly appreciated. Mr. Penna, am I correct in my guess of general year and are they 945/925's? I don't have them yet, but the Serial # is S2626OP any information y'all can give me from this information would also be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

You are within a couple years of the date.

CHARLEY PENNA

[oldschoolrocker]

'53 I just found a set of these, missing the 5 and 9 at the local thrift, but in nowhere near as good a condition as yours.

['53 Precision]

Good for you! I haven't taken mine out on the course yet, been really enjoying a set of Armour 915's this summer...may play a round with them within a couple of weeks...

[oldschoolrocker]

Thanks five-three,
They cleaned up better than I thought they would. The grips are in pretty bad shape. I may end up burning them off and putting on some modern ones. I changed grips on the m85 Colokroms I had and that was a chore. I finally took them in to my local Edwin Watts and an old pro there told me back on the day they burned them off, so I brought them home started a fire in the fire pit and who'd a thunk it, presto chango.
Going to take them to the range early and test them out, if I can hold on to them I will play them tomorrow afternoon along with some Palmer Peerless Persimmons I picked up today as well.

['53 Precision]

Have fun! mine had the leather grips, I cut them off unwrapped the paper underlisting then used an automotive pre-clean solution, mainly isopropyl alcohol to clean the tar substance off of them...worked really well.

[tembolo1284]

Did you ever get to measure them lofts?

[oldschoolrocker]

Well, an early morning range session provided me with all the information I needed. The grips got to be changed !!! And, are those leading edges sharp, or what!!!

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1355027585' post='6040469']
Wondering if anyone here knows the specs of the lofts of the MacGregor Tommy Armour 985 irons. I have 2-10 irons. These are the ones from the late 40's to early 50's. if I were to guess, I'd think the 9 iron is about 48*. Any help is truly appreciated.
[/quote]

This is certainly not a definitive answer, but from all I've read over the last year (way too much!) I'd be pretty confident in saying that the lofts started at 20* with the 2 iron and went in 4* increments up to 52* with the pitching wedge. I doubt they'd vary by more than a degree from this setup. From what I gather, pretty much the whole industry followed this convention until the late 60's. And lengths started at 38.5" with the 2 iron.

[HoldenCornfield]

While we're on the subject of MacGregor Tommy Armour, does anyone know anything about these woods:

[attachment=2347253:Mac p59w.JPG]

[attachment=2347259:Mac p59w b.JPG]


Supposedly from the early 50's? They've been refinished and reshafted (TT DG s300) and there are no visible serial numbers left. Just the model P59W on the sole and Tommy Armour on the crown.

The main reason I purchased them was because they had Gripmaster leather grips on them, worth more than I paid for the set (including shipping). I'm planning to install them on my Precision woods eventually. In the meantime, I've taken these woods to the range twice (I try to be careful about picking out the newest range balls and avoiding the old rocks) and they're pretty sweet.

The 4 wood is fantastic. The 3w is, per usual, difficult for me to launch properly unless I have a great lie or teed up. The driver is super heavy, D5-D6, but just 43" long with a square face. I hit it very straight but it also launches really low. I really need to take it out for a round and see how it does with one of these soft Hogan distance balls. I expect it will run like a scalded dog.

[HoganApexBlades]

Kevin - I think they may be as old as late '30's - early/mid '40's based on the 5 screw pattern on the insert. The Kaplan book is missing years '43 - '48, so it's a guess at best. They look beautiful! Congrats on your purchase.

[Kathy Marie]

+1 They are Gorgeous, enjoy!!

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1406673625' post='9812447']
Kevin - I think they may be as old as late '30's - early/mid '40's based on the 5 screw pattern on the insert. The Kaplan book is missing years '43 - '48, so it's a guess at best. They look beautiful! Congrats on your purchase.
[/quote]

Wow, that'd be really cool if they were that old. Thanks for the info.

I just got back from walking nine this evening and took the driver with me. I really, really like it. I hit three drives in the 240-255 range and one that rolled out to 275. It was downhill in the landing area but it was probably 15-20 yards further than I've ever hit my regular persimmon on that hole. It launched much better with a real ball (big surprise) but the combination of this driver and a low spin, low compression distance ball was almost like hitting a knuckleball. It didn't hang up in the air but it really tumbled and ran when it came down -- at least 10 yards longer than my regular driver, maybe more. Did have one mishit, though, a 180 yard heel shot.

Great club. I'll have to put them in the bag for awhile.

[dbuck47]

HC, those are really nice looking clubs. So classic!

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1406646678' post='9809451']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1355027585' post='6040469']
Wondering if anyone here knows the specs of the lofts of the MacGregor Tommy Armour 985 irons. I have 2-10 irons. These are the ones from the late 40's to early 50's. if I were to guess, I'd think the 9 iron is about 48*. Any help is truly appreciated.
[/quote]

This is certainly not a definitive answer, but from all I've read over the last year (way too much!) I'd be pretty confident in saying that the lofts started at 20* with the 2 iron and went in 4* increments up to 52* with the pitching wedge. I doubt they'd vary by more than a degree from this setup. From what I gather, pretty much the whole industry followed this convention until the late 60's. And lengths started at 38.5" with the 2 iron.
[/quote]
"
If the wedge is a 10-iron, then the set is from the late 1960's at the oldest. If they have Tommy Armour stamped on them, they are 1967/8 at the newest. If they are stamped Tourney Custom", written in script to look like it says "Tommy Armour", then they are newer than that. Regardless, the lofts should be similar to the early Armours.

[ALIF]

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1406753740' post='9819403']
[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1406646678' post='9809451']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1355027585' post='6040469']
Wondering if anyone here knows the specs of the lofts of the MacGregor Tommy Armour 985 irons. I have 2-10 irons. These are the ones from the late 40's to early 50's. if I were to guess, I'd think the 9 iron is about 48*. Any help is truly appreciated.
[/quote]

This is certainly not a definitive answer, but from all I've read over the last year (way too much!) I'd be pretty confident in saying that the lofts started at 20* with the 2 iron and went in 4* increments up to 52* with the pitching wedge. I doubt they'd vary by more than a degree from this setup. From what I gather, pretty much the whole industry followed this convention until the late 60's. And lengths started at 38.5" with the 2 iron.
[/quote]

"
If the wedge is a 10-iron, then the set is from the late 1960's at the oldest. If they have Tommy Armour stamped on them, they are 1967/8 at the newest. If they are stamped Tourney Custom", written in script to look like it says "Tommy Armour", then they are newer than that. Regardless, the lofts should be similar to the early Armours.
[/quote]

Sorry, wedge is 11 iron not 10.

[ALIF]

Here they are. 2-9 are 985T. The 11 iron is a 909.

[i080299]

The P59W's are beautiful. I have a full set (irons and woods) but missing the driver. :-( This model was from 1959 - 1962.