My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[pinestreetgolf]

> As an aside, in the best round I ever played, I may not be able to tell you every club I hit but I can tell you every result, hole-by-hole and roughly where every shot was. And that round was almost 7 years ago. And yes, that most certainly IS an anomaly.

 

So the one round you can remember perfectly (you actually almost certainly cannot unless you have an incredible memory or you are a sociopath) you don't actually remember anything that would help you choose a set of irons. Which is our point. You remember the best round because of the emotion associated with it being the best. Using that one round of data to select clubs is dumb.

 

> But yes, selective memory for everyone, not just higher handicappers, is an issue, along with things like a 27 handicapper hitting 4 GIRs and being about as consistent as any 7-10 I've ever seen in a simulator session albeit with seemingly less than average SS, and the 10 handicapper who gets up and down 70% of the time. These are just 2 other anomalies ? Or are they simply "misremembering" ?

 

Are you seriously asking if a 10 handicap with an up-and-down percentage that would lead the tour (67% is the current best) is misremembering? (yes, he is).

 

A golfer who hits 4 a round "should be" around a 14/15/16, so if he's a 27 he is either misremembering or losing close to a stroke a hole around the green, which is possible, but unlikely.

 

> To this day, roughly 14 years after the event, I shot a round of -4 at my home course, 1 stroke off the club record. And I can still remember the FOUR bad breaks I got that could've saved me as many as FIVE shots during that round.

 

You remember them. Its not a black hole in your brain. You just remember them wrong. A video of the event played against your description wouldn't come close to matching each other, and they diverge more and more over time depending on the level of emotion you stored with the memory. We don't have to debate this. There is a ton of academic literature in this area.

 

Your memories are movies that are based on a true story.

[MelloYello]

> @dciccoritti said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @revanant said:

> > > So, I thought that video from Mark Crossfield is pretty interesting, and his results echo what I tend to see when I put my AP1 up against my MP-4. Namely, he hits his 718 CB consistently well around the 3 minute mark, and when he shifts over to the AP1 at around the 4 minute mark, the quality of his strike and dispersion goes down. He has to take more shots with the AP1 to get usable results, and his AP1 hits are dropping farther back on mishits. He also makes the point that he tends to prefer to miss short with his irons. : )

> > >

> > > At around the 9 minute mark, he starts to review the data. When he doesn’t pull out the bad shots, the dispersion on the AP1 6 iron is a fair amount worse and the AP1 is on average 5 yards shorter than the CB.

> > >

> > > Mark makes the point that the difference is more likely his fault, than something to do with the club. In theory, he’s right—both he and I should be able to get great and consistent shots from any iron. But, if for whatever reason, Mark finds that something about the mix of his swing, his mindset, and the club continues to provide more consistent results with the CB, as I have been finding when I put my MP-4s against my AP1s, there’s a point where I would simply leave the 5 iron CB in the bag and see if it actually hurts me, or if I’m actually a better and more consistent player with the 5 iron, despite common wisdom saying the AP1 6 iron should give me more ball speed/height/forgiveness.

> > >

> > > Hence, why I’m rolling with my MP-4s. If/when I find they hold my game back rather than improve my consistency, I’ll go back on the hunt for the perfect iron. But so long as I like looking down at them, feel confident swinging them, and continue to get consistent results, I’ll be keeping them in play.

> > >

> >

> > I can respect what he's trying to do. I think he's clever in assessing what sort of lie he thinks he's going to often get when he's 185-200 out. It's good to try and find a club that will give you some versatiity from that distance.

> >

> > But I cringe when I watch people ignore the primary drawback of combo sets. It can be a set with MBs and CBs or a set with CBs and some sort of GI club. Whatever the case, you're asking yourself to consistently hit the ball well with MULTIPLE clubs that are DIFFERENT.

> >

> > In a world game where small changes matter, that is often a horrible idea.

> >

> > I had the same problem with hybrids in the bag. While they can ultimately hit it higher and a bit further than my 3-iron, I have to adjust for them and often don't do that reliably because I don't practice each and every day.

> >

> > Finding the optimal set is about practicality. I highly doubt somebody is going to be able to carry a bunch of CBs than then pull out an AP1 or AP2 and hit it as well as they'd like on the first swing.

> >

> > That video shows precisely how overly-analytical golfers who obsess about this stuff often shoot themselves in the foot trying to get too cute.

> >

> > He isn't showing that CBs are better/worse than AP-whatevers. He's showing that you can't just automatically transition from one to the other in the moment.

>

> LOL :-) I use to be surprised and shake my head at responses like this however not anymore and I think I know why. (For another thread)

>

> I guessed you missed the bit at 19:48 in the video.

>

>

 

It's Mark Crossfield...I'm not going to sit there and watch a 20+ video of Mark freaking Crossfield.

 

Crossfield is an average Joe, no different than you or me if we started a YouTube channel. I don't spend my days watching his stuff, TBH. I find it boring to sit and listen to a guy talk who's no smarter than me. I'd rather come here and engage with people who'll respond. Just more fun.

 

If he wants to promote amateurs start using different irons from separate sets then so be it. If 20 minutes in he's saying something else, I've already tuned out.

 

I gave up wasting my time on his videos. It would be like coming here only to read what a single person said. I wouldn't do that...not unless he was @"Jack Pearsall" , away.

 

 

[nostatic]

Memory is selective and faulty. In fact, perception is selective and faulty, clouded by internal bias. Because...human.

 

Philosophers have long argued that perception is reality - i.e. there is no absolute truth, only relative experiences.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/looks-can-deceive/

 

last graph: Our conscious perception of the world, though relatively stable, is not static. We are incapable of being fully objective, even in our most mundane observations and impressions. Our awareness of the objects around us is informed and fine-tuned by any number of transient factors—our strength and energy levels, our sense of confidence, our fears and desires. Being human means seeing the world through your own, constantly shifting, lens.

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

 

> > As for my choice..... I enjoyed the game for a nice 7 solid years.... we have taken a huge break... going from twice a week to at best once a month... With that being said.... YES I want to play my best, Let me say it again if you missed it.

> >

> > 1) I shoot 80 or 95 on any given day.... who knows who shows up. Ive also had great days shooting 76-79 rarer than most but they are there. So you are telling me, that the moment I switch to ALL Cavity back life will change for me in golf. You can tell me my consistency, NOT practice not commitment but just due to a club change, with your implied, playing all my AP2 in full set dump by 5 wood for the 3 iron players GI. Its going to be a game changer? My driving off the tee, my putting, my short game HAS NOTHING to do with my enjoyment or aggregate score, but the PW-6iron.... Can you see how SILLY you sound?

> >

> > See you evaluate a player as a whole based on the choice iron, yet, there is still much more, getting off the tee, short game, woods, heck even playing partners betting and partaking in alcohol mid round... YET. You judge me on my choice of PW to 6 iron.

> >

> > You make the comment of "acting a little stupid" for those choices. .. Yet look in the mirror. Golf is a sport, hobby, avenue, treatment etc etc to others and how they view the game and the MILLIONS of views vary. AGAIN while your comments are valid and have truth... it is NOT a universal truth and **** an IRON be it SGI, GI, CB, MB is NOT the only part of golf nor does it DICTATE a players ability as a whole.

> >

> > In all fairness in closing if I may add. MY apologies if in anyway I am getting snippy with you. I am so sorry if I have and I really do NOT want to engage in any negative commentary as this site is way too much fun more so the game of GOLF to me is fun so the need to escalate is "silly". Let me be the first to back down and say sorry. I dont want to get heated and will do my best to engage respectfully.

> >

> Nobody said any of this. We said CBs are more forgiving for the average mid and high cap. Relax.

> Your on a golf course. Don't be one of those guys that plays the first few holes seriously and if he has two doubles just pretends he didn't care the whole time but if he has a birdie and two pars acts like he's a super duper serious. We all know that guy, don't be that guy.

> What would you say if I showed up to a softball league game with an oven mitt for a glove and said it didn't matter because I was just there to have fun? I'd probably look, well, stupid.

>

 

Mello Yello has assessed my game and somehow I am breaking rules by playing MBs, PW-6iron. and MC 5 & 4 irons? Saying he knows more that my PW-6iron will and can benefit from playing a perimeter weighted club. Than the current make up I have.

 

Secondly? "We said CBs are more forgiving for the average mid and high cap." I have never ONCE disputed the UNDERLYING FACT that a CB by MOI and weight is more forgiving than an MB. You apply the mid to high handicapper without taking the whole game of a player. THERE is no universal truth that a HIGH handicapper will benefit from a CB over an MB. WHILE truth is that it is the most **common** truth, it is NOT factually **universal**.

 

Next? You are now the second person to make an egregious statement about me, You know nothing about my game yet implying after I make a couple doubles I change my tune? Why is there a need to do that? We are experience playing blades. When I first start on this sight years ago and I WAS I high handicap, I did the blades experience ALL of its. 20+ hdcp playing nike forged blades. Super tiny 2iron. talked the SAME excuses why I play it. Fast forward 7 years, fitting ,rounds experience moved the Players GI's got down to a single digit and dabbled back in to MB because of a deal and have not really switched since then. MY personal experience is MY personal experience. I have NOT justified that Blades in any way have made me better. But I have justified that by score and score alone I have shot the exact same or very similar scores and FOUND that MB or CB I found no NET benefit so I play what I **like **rather than stick to the single truth that CB having more forgiveness than an MB by MOI standards and playing them when I have that doubt in the back of my mind.

 

Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

 

Story time,

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/18854328#Comment_18854328

I have been sidelined for this past month please check my prior post for edification, last month I dislocated my ankle on the 17th hole, I made a double on the first hole and proceeded to shoot 3 over the next 15 holes (SO no I dont do the giving up making excuses I do try to play my best while having the most fun) being 5 over after 16. I popped my ankle back on the 17th hole and did my best to finish up not giving up. I ended up 3+ shooting 80 with a popped dislocated ankle. So make all the assumptions you want... I know my experiences .

 

-

and the score card just for fun..

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @Exactice808 said:

> Mellow Yello has assessed my game...

 

First things first...there is no W in @MelloYello . I took my handle from the soda I was drinking at the time I signed up for WRX because, you know, _names matter_!

 

Second, if you're going to add a W to "Mellow," wouldn't you also add it to "Yellow," LOL?

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> ...and somehow I am breaking rules by playing MBs, PW-6iron. and MC 5 & 4 irons? Saying he knows more that my PW-6iron will and can benefit from playing a perimeter weighted club. Than the current make up I have.

>

> Secondly? "We said CBs are more forgiving for the average mid and high cap." I have never ONCE disputed the UNDERLYING FACT that a CB by MOI and weight is more forgiving than an MB. You apply the mid to high handicapper without taking the whole game of a player. THERE is no universal truth that a HIGH handicapper will benefit from a CB over an MB. WHILE truth is that it is the most **common** truth, it is NOT factually **universal**.

>

> Next? You are now the second person to make an egregious statement about me, You know nothing about my game yet implying after I make a couple doubles I change my tune? Why is there a need to do that? We are experience playing blades. When I first start on this sight years ago and I WAS I high handicap, I did the blades experience ALL of its. 20+ hdcp playing nike forged blades. Super tiny 2iron. talked the SAME excuses why I play it. Fast forward 7 years, fitting ,rounds experience moved the Players GI's got down to a single digit and dabbled back in to MB because of a deal and have not really switched since then. MY personal experience is MY personal experience. I have NOT justified that Blades in any way have made me better. But I have justified that by score and score alone I have shot the exact same or very similar scores and FOUND that MB or CB I found no NET benefit so I play what I **like **rather than stick to the single truth that CB having more forgiveness than an MB by MOI standards and playing them when I have that doubt in the back of my mind.

>

> Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

>

 

Look, bro, however you feel, you really ought to lighten up. You come off as super triggered because people are talking about your clubs. It was kind of funny at first. Okay, yes, I was baiting and trolling you a bit yesterday. I was having a laugh.

 

But dude, you were reacting _poorly_ and need to settle down with this business of being so serious. This is a chatroom of dorky golf dudes. Of course people can buy and play what they want. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

But this forum is for debating this kind of meaningless stuff. If it seems too mean or judgmental then don't participate, right? The only way it goes wrong is if people take it way personal.

 

[nsxguy]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> >

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > After the round and often until I play the next one I can remember every shot I hit during that round; good, bad or somewhere in between. So as for "shots" I remember all of them.

> > >

> > > Right. *huge eye roll*

> > >

> > > They did a study on this at Columbia. Virtually no golfer could accurately remember every shot, and most were off on 1/3rd of their shots. The link is in a prior thread. I can try to dig it out. But they test exactly this. Its a phenomenon called athletic memory decay. You don't remember your shots correctly. You think you do, but you don't (or you are an extremely rare type of human that stores memory without emotion AND has a huge capacity for short-term memory).

> > > >

> > > > That's the typical WRX'er though.

> > > >

> > > > I used to think I had a great memory and then I began playing 2-3 times each week and I had to make a point of writing down all my stats soon after I got done. I'd forget stuff if I got more than 2 rounds ahead.

> > > >

> >

> > Perhaps you missed the part (post ?) where I said "_Don't remember **if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily**, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round_." ?

> >

> >

> > Now that may or may not cause you to" unroll" your huge eye roll but, if not, I can't help you. It's a fact that, sans you're coming here to play a round and ride home afterwards and have me recite every shot to you, I guess you'll just have to believe what you'll believe. Up to you.

> >

> >

> > Now, by remembering every shot, I mean the club I hit and where it ended up, not necessarily exact distances,,,,,,, if that helps any.

> >

> >

> > If I play a course for the FIRST (through ??) time,,,,,,, NO CHANCE I'll remember every shot. I might remember a hole or 3 but that's about it. Takes me roughly 5-10 rounds before I can remember the entire layout, sometimes longer.

>

> You remember every shot. You just remember them incorrectly. The best drive you hit you'll remember as 10 yards longer than it actually was and the worst chip you hit you'll remember as atrocious when in reality it went to the fringe and you'd probably have made a 5 anyways. Your brain doesn't remember score. It remembers emotion. That is an awful way to choose equipment.

 

Incorrectly ? What is wrong with you ? You know what happens when you a**-U-ME, don't you ?

 

I'll remember my best drive as 10 yards longer than it really was ? I SAID I wouldn't remember exact yardages and this has NOTHING to do with "choosing equipment" ? What I said was I'd remember every club I hit and roughly where every shot went,,,, for 18 holes,,,,,, on a course I was very familiar with.

 

If you'd like me to PROVE it to you, come on down to South Florida.

[pinestreetgolf]

> Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

 

No, I can't. I will say what I've said twice now. There are high caps and mid caps who are exceptions. I just find the explanations in this thread ("shooting better" with no control group, "focus better" in practice, etc...) to be nonsense. The majority should be CBs. The minority should let empirical evidence put them in clubs that, while weaker in theory, are better in practice or admit its for fun and / or vanity.

 

I'm going to ignore the rest of your post.

 

[deadsolid...shank]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > >

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > After the round and often until I play the next one I can remember every shot I hit during that round; good, bad or somewhere in between. So as for "shots" I remember all of them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Right. *huge eye roll*

> > > > >

> > > > > They did a study on this at Columbia. Virtually no golfer could accurately remember every shot, and most were off on 1/3rd of their shots. The link is in a prior thread. I can try to dig it out. But they test exactly this. Its a phenomenon called athletic memory decay. You don't remember your shots correctly. You think you do, but you don't (or you are an extremely rare type of human that stores memory without emotion AND has a huge capacity for short-term memory).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's the typical WRX'er though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I used to think I had a great memory and then I began playing 2-3 times each week and I had to make a point of writing down all my stats soon after I got done. I'd forget stuff if I got more than 2 rounds ahead.

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps you missed the part (post ?) where I said "_Don't remember **if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily**, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round_." ?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now that may or may not cause you to" unroll" your huge eye roll but, if not, I can't help you. It's a fact that, sans you're coming here to play a round and ride home afterwards and have me recite every shot to you, I guess you'll just have to believe what you'll believe. Up to you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now, by remembering every shot, I mean the club I hit and where it ended up, not necessarily exact distances,,,,,,, if that helps any.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If I play a course for the FIRST (through ??) time,,,,,,, NO CHANCE I'll remember every shot. I might remember a hole or 3 but that's about it. Takes me roughly 5-10 rounds before I can remember the entire layout, sometimes longer.

> > >

> > > You remember every shot. You just remember them incorrectly. The best drive you hit you'll remember as 10 yards longer than it actually was and the worst chip you hit you'll remember as atrocious when in reality it went to the fringe and you'd probably have made a 5 anyways. Your brain doesn't remember score. It remembers emotion. That is an awful way to choose equipment.

> >

> > Sorry to be blunt here PSG, but you’re just flat out wrong, and I don’t give a rats Word not allowedwhat any study says. When I’m done with a round at my home course, that night, I can tell you every distance I had in to every green, what club I used, and what the result was. Every single one, every time.

> >

> > As to the equipment part of this debate, I’ll leave that to you guys since we’ve had our discussions in the past?. But as for the remembering, I’ve done that after every round for a lot of years.

> >

>

> Everyone remembers what they did a few hours ago. People don't need to state that they have that ability. That's not a special ability AT ALL. Each one of us do that.

>

> But you remember perfectly what you did years ago?

>

> You're not human, bro.

 

Why would you ask if I remember years ago. I clearly said that night after that days round. I was addressing the statement that whatever we remeber is incorrect, which seems to be a pretty wide net to be cast. The reply was made to NXT guy who said he rehashes his round on the ride home.

Like he said, there is no way to prove it, so like me, it’s his word against another one of those infamous “studies”. But I will say that I would wager any amount of money that if someone tagged along on my round and wrote down the numbers I gave them (yardages and distances) as we went along, I could recite them back on that ride home.

 

As to being “not human”?, well now that I’m not so sure about.

 

[nsxguy]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > After the round and often until I play the next one I can remember every shot I hit during that round; good, bad or somewhere in between. So as for "shots" I remember all of them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Right. *huge eye roll*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They did a study on this at Columbia. Virtually no golfer could accurately remember every shot, and most were off on 1/3rd of their shots. The link is in a prior thread. I can try to dig it out. But they test exactly this. Its a phenomenon called athletic memory decay. You don't remember your shots correctly. You think you do, but you don't (or you are an extremely rare type of human that stores memory without emotion AND has a huge capacity for short-term memory).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's the typical WRX'er though.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I used to think I had a great memory and then I began playing 2-3 times each week and I had to make a point of writing down all my stats soon after I got done. I'd forget stuff if I got more than 2 rounds ahead.

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Perhaps you missed the part (post ?) where I said "_Don't remember **if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily**, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round_." ?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Now that may or may not cause you to" unroll" your huge eye roll but, if not, I can't help you. It's a fact that, sans you're coming here to play a round and ride home afterwards and have me recite every shot to you, I guess you'll just have to believe what you'll believe. Up to you.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, by remembering every shot, I mean the club I hit and where it ended up, not necessarily exact distances,,,,,,, if that helps any.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If I play a course for the FIRST (through ??) time,,,,,,, NO CHANCE I'll remember every shot. I might remember a hole or 3 but that's about it. Takes me roughly 5-10 rounds before I can remember the entire layout, sometimes longer.

> > > >

> > > > You remember every shot. You just remember them incorrectly. The best drive you hit you'll remember as 10 yards longer than it actually was and the worst chip you hit you'll remember as atrocious when in reality it went to the fringe and you'd probably have made a 5 anyways. Your brain doesn't remember score. It remembers emotion. That is an awful way to choose equipment.

> > >

> > > Sorry to be blunt here PSG, but you’re just flat out wrong, and I don’t give a rats Word not allowedwhat any study says. When I’m done with a round at my home course, that night, I can tell you every distance I had in to every green, what club I used, and what the result was. Every single one, every time.

> > >

> > > As to the equipment part of this debate, I’ll leave that to you guys since we’ve had our discussions in the past?. But as for the remembering, I’ve done that after every round for a lot of years.

> > >

> >

> > Everyone remembers what they did a few hours ago. People don't need to state that they have that ability. That's not a special ability AT ALL. Each one of us do that.

> >

> > But you remember perfectly what you did years ago?

> >

> > You're not human, bro.

>

> Why would you ask if I remember years ago. I clearly said that night after that days round. I was addressing the statement that whatever we remeber is incorrect, which seems to be a pretty wide net to be cast. The reply was made to NXT guy who said he rehashes his round on the ride home.

> Like he said, there is no way to prove it, so like me, it’s his word against another one of those infamous “studies”. But I will say that I would wager any amount of money that if someone tagged along on my round and wrote down the numbers I gave them (yardages and distances) as we went along, I could recite them back on that ride home.

>

> As to being “not human”?, well now that I’m not so sure about.

>

 

He got his posts confused a bit.

 

He asked what he really wanted to (to me) right after that. I'll get to that now.

[pinestreetgolf]

> Sorry to be blunt here PSG, but you’re just flat out wrong, and I don’t give a rats Word not allowedwhat any study says. When I’m done with a round at my home course, that night, I can tell you every distance I had in to every green, what club I used, and what the result was. Every single one, every time.

>

> As to the equipment part of this debate, I’ll leave that to you guys since we’ve had our discussions in the past?. But as for the remembering, I’ve done that after every round for a lot of years.

 

Well, the study concluded that a third get it wrong right after the round which means two-thirds get it correct directly after the round. The study uses the phrase "significant" which is frustrating because it is so ambiguous. Then, the memories decay over time. In a week, you remember much less. A round in the State Am decays much slower than a random round on a weeknight.

 

However.

 

The problem is that the brain doesn't erase the memories. The brain replaces the memories with imagination. Slowly, all memories are replaced by our version of that memory. The more emotion attached to the memory the more it will stay "real" for longer but all memories become imagination eventually.

 

So, when golfer X is sitting down to think about building his bag he is usually building based on something that is mostly imagination unless he has taken strides to protect himself from those flaws.

 

[nsxguy]

 

[deleted]

[deadsolid...shank]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > Sorry to be blunt here PSG, but you’re just flat out wrong, and I don’t give a rats Word not allowedwhat any study says. When I’m done with a round at my home course, that night, I can tell you every distance I had in to every green, what club I used, and what the result was. Every single one, every time.

> >

> > As to the equipment part of this debate, I’ll leave that to you guys since we’ve had our discussions in the past?. But as for the remembering, I’ve done that after every round for a lot of years.

>

> Well, the study concluded that a third get it wrong right after the round which means two-thirds get it correct directly after the round. The study uses the phrase "significant" which is frustrating because it is so ambiguous. Then, the memories decay over time. In a week, you remember much less. A round in the State Am decays much slower than a random round on a weeknight.

>

> However.

>

> The problem is that the brain doesn't erase the memories. The brain replaces the memories with imagination. Slowly, all memories are replaced by our version of that memory. The more emotion attached to the memory the more it will stay "real" for longer but all memories become imagination eventually.

>

> So, when golfer X is sitting down to think about building his bag he is usually building based on something that is mostly imagination unless he has taken strides to protect himself from those flaws.

>

 

OK, I can agree with that. My issue was mainly the timeframes being all lumped together into that blanket statement. I would readily agree that the memory becomes “distorted” fairly quickly, but I was more referring to the “that night” or the “ride home scenario”. Everything probably needed a little more clarification.

 

[nsxguy]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > As an aside, in the best round I ever played, I may not be able to tell you every club I hit but I can tell you every result, hole-by-hole and roughly where every shot was. And that round was almost 7 years ago. And yes, that most certainly IS an anomaly.

>

> So the one round you can remember perfectly (you actually almost certainly cannot unless you have an incredible memory or you are a sociopath) you don't actually remember anything that would help you choose a set of irons. Which is our point. You remember the best round because of the emotion associated with it being the best. Using that one round of data to select clubs is dumb.

 

Seriously ? Again with the choosing of irons ? Who said ANYTHING about choosing of irons ? You DO understand what "As an aside" means, yes ?

 

"Perfectly" ? No, NOT perfectly. In fact, clubs used to get where I got, no, not any more. Hole by hole score ? WHERE I got and where I ended up next, yes.

 

You know what the word "memorable" means, right ? That round happened to be the best round of my life. As a "5" I shot 1 under on a very difficult mountain course in upstate NY that I knew very well and had played some 30 or 40 times over the years. And it was with a TRIPLE BOGEY. So for handicapping, net 69

 

72.8 with a slope of 133. You can figure out that differential and where it falls on the "Odds chart". Pretty much once-in-a-lifetime.

 

Best round of my life - THAT it why it is so memorable.

 

I GET you're one of those guys around here that (thinks he) knows "everything golf" and apparently a lot more than that. Believe it, don't believe it. I don't really care.

 

And since there's no way I can prove it to you or you can prove I can't do it I guess we'll have to just let it go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[nsxguy]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > >

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > After the round and often until I play the next one I can remember every shot I hit during that round; good, bad or somewhere in between. So as for "shots" I remember all of them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Right. *huge eye roll*

> > > > >

> > > > > They did a study on this at Columbia. Virtually no golfer could accurately remember every shot, and most were off on 1/3rd of their shots. The link is in a prior thread. I can try to dig it out. But they test exactly this. Its a phenomenon called athletic memory decay. You don't remember your shots correctly. You think you do, but you don't (or you are an extremely rare type of human that stores memory without emotion AND has a huge capacity for short-term memory).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's the typical WRX'er though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I used to think I had a great memory and then I began playing 2-3 times each week and I had to make a point of writing down all my stats soon after I got done. I'd forget stuff if I got more than 2 rounds ahead.

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps you missed the part (post ?) where I said "_Don't remember **if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily**, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round_." ?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now that may or may not cause you to" unroll" your huge eye roll but, if not, I can't help you. It's a fact that, sans you're coming here to play a round and ride home afterwards and have me recite every shot to you, I guess you'll just have to believe what you'll believe. Up to you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now, by remembering every shot, I mean the club I hit and where it ended up, not necessarily exact distances,,,,,,, if that helps any.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If I play a course for the FIRST (through ??) time,,,,,,, NO CHANCE I'll remember every shot. I might remember a hole or 3 but that's about it. Takes me roughly 5-10 rounds before I can remember the entire layout, sometimes longer.

> > >

> > > You remember every shot. You just remember them incorrectly. The best drive you hit you'll remember as 10 yards longer than it actually was and the worst chip you hit you'll remember as atrocious when in reality it went to the fringe and you'd probably have made a 5 anyways. Your brain doesn't remember score. It remembers emotion. That is an awful way to choose equipment.

> >

> > Sorry to be blunt here PSG, but you’re just flat out wrong, and I don’t give a rats Word not allowedwhat any study says. When I’m done with a round at my home course, that night, I can tell you every distance I had in to every green, what club I used, and what the result was. Every single one, every time.

> >

> > As to the equipment part of this debate, I’ll leave that to you guys since we’ve had our discussions in the past?. But as for the remembering, I’ve done that after every round for a lot of years.

> >

>

> Everyone remembers what they did a few hours ago. People don't need to state that they have that ability. That's not a special ability AT ALL. Each one of us do that.

>

> But you remember perfectly what you did years ago?

>

> You're not human, bro.

 

PSG seems to disagree with you bro.

 

Besides, who you talkin' to bro ? And about what exactly ? (Maybe try to find the exact post ?)

[MelloYello]

> @nsxguy said:

> PSG seems to disagree with you bro.

>

> Besides, who you talkin' to bro ? And about what exactly ? (Maybe try to find the exact post ?)

 

Haha....what, lol?

[nsxguy]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > PSG seems to disagree with you bro.

> >

> > Besides, who you talkin' to bro ? And about what exactly ? (Maybe try to find the exact post ?)

>

> Haha....what, lol?

 

Try reading post 1141. Did you or did you not write that post ?

 

You seem to have confused DSS and you seem to have been talking to me.

 

Mind clarifying bro ? LOL

[MelloYello]

> @nsxguy said:

>

> Try reading post 1141. Did you or did you not write that post ?

>

> You seem to have confused DSS and you seem to have been talking to me.

>

> Mind clarifying bro ? LOL

 

Go back and read it, dude. Nothing confusing about it.

 

What I wrote does also apply to you but it was directed at DSS who seemed to feel it necessary to describe having an ability that all human golfers have.

 

He also disagreed with @pinestreetgolf who in this case has been spot on. He and I do not disagree.

[Exactice808]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > Mellow Yello has assessed my game...

>

> First things first...there is no W in @MelloYello . I took my handle from the soda I was drinking at the time I signed up for WRX because, you now, _names matter_!

>

> Second, if you're going to add a W to "Mellow," wouldn't you also add it to "Yellow," LOL?

>

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > ...and somehow I am breaking rules by playing MBs, PW-6iron. and MC 5 & 4 irons? Saying he knows more that my PW-6iron will and can benefit from playing a perimeter weighted club. Than the current make up I have.

> >

> > Secondly? "We said CBs are more forgiving for the average mid and high cap." I have never ONCE disputed the UNDERLYING FACT that a CB by MOI and weight is more forgiving than an MB. You apply the mid to high handicapper without taking the whole game of a player. THERE is no universal truth that a HIGH handicapper will benefit from a CB over an MB. WHILE truth is that it is the most **common** truth, it is NOT factually **universal**.

> >

> > Next? You are now the second person to make an egregious statement about me, You know nothing about my game yet implying after I make a couple doubles I change my tune? Why is there a need to do that? We are experience playing blades. When I first start on this sight years ago and I WAS I high handicap, I did the blades experience ALL of its. 20+ hdcp playing nike forged blades. Super tiny 2iron. talked the SAME excuses why I play it. Fast forward 7 years, fitting ,rounds experience moved the Players GI's got down to a single digit and dabbled back in to MB because of a deal and have not really switched since then. MY personal experience is MY personal experience. I have NOT justified that Blades in any way have made me better. But I have justified that by score and score alone I have shot the exact same or very similar scores and FOUND that MB or CB I found no NET benefit so I play what I **like **rather than stick to the single truth that CB having more forgiveness than an MB by MOI standards and playing them when I have that doubt in the back of my mind.

> >

> > Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

> >

>

> Look, bro, however you feel, you really ought to lighten up. You come off as super triggered because people are talking about your clubs. It was kind of funny at first. Okay, yes, I was baiting and trolling you a bit yesterday. I was having a laugh.

>

> But dude, you were reacting _poorly_ and need to settle down with this business of being so serious. This is a chatroom of dorky golf dudes. Of course people can buy and play what they want. I wouldn't have it any other way.

>

> But this forum is for debating this kind of meaningless stuff. If it seems too mean or judgmental then don't participate, right? The only way it goes wrong is if people take it way personal.

>

 

Darn it, see what happens with a I used a Blade type keyboard, I miss spell screen names. Sorry about that....

 

Next I enjoy discussion very much hence the involvement and multiple post, Next you admit to baiting and trolling purposefully. Thats on you not me. I will maintain my facts and debates to edify my post. You can take it me being personal or triggered or whatever. That remains you baited and trolled with that intent anyways... So if you dont like how I retort then dont bait or troll?

 

Reacted poorly? To a person that admitted to intentionally baiting and trolling? With that I have provide my information, debates, personal facts?

 

All you have done is accuse me of something I am still not sure of. Assume my game based on your personal opinion and disregard anything of fact that I posted.

 

If you dont like facts. Then dont post either...? How does that sound? Stupid and silly no? So do what You like I will maintain the info from my experience without intentionally trolling and baiting like you admitted.

 

 

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

>

> No, I can't. I will say what I've said twice now. There are high caps and mid caps who are exceptions. ** I just find the explanations in this thread ("shooting better" with no control group, "focus better" in practice, etc...) to be nonsense.** The majority should be CBs. The minority should let empirical evidence put them in clubs that, while weaker in theory, are better in practice or admit its for fun and / or vanity.

>

> I'm going to ignore the rest of your post.

>

 

Pine I am not sure if you remember, but you and I had a great thread a while back (like 2 years ago) were we agreed on a LOT while 90% of GolfWRX hammered just you and I.

Funny part is. I 100% agree with your statement. I even posted in my prior post

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/18898089#Comment_18898089

 

THAT in the event of figuring out the SGI vs MB debate, take it so far is tune based on your swing speed. There should be focus and edification if you really want to play blades. IF NOT then the only other reason you play Blades is BECAUSE YOU want to and no one can change that personal choice.

 

With the above point to my situation specific. I DID JUST that, I took the AP2 set, tuned it for the flight window of about 100ft apex and the spin rates at the club x 1000rpms i.e 9= 9000rpms, 8= 8000rpms etc. SO with that my AP2 vs my Amp Cell pro's react and produce similar ball flight and results. As I stated to mellow the net positive is a 3 yard average net gain on the AP2's over the AMP Cell. The dispersion and misses are nearly identical (i.e.) Its a miss period and I am not having a favorable birdie putt.

 

So if my striking nets me all similar results I "PERSONALLY" chose to now play what I prefer thats it. NO perfect science, NO claims that blades make me better. No claims that blades make me worse.

 

I did put in the experiment, the work the intent. Ive reached a level of game play that the PW-6iron in blades is negligible to my score. NOW to the actual mid to high handicap, I ALSO DID go through that evolution when I first started on GolfWRX. It was complete FAIL, full of excuses and justifications. ONLY now through work, practice and intent have I come to my personal conclusion. Thats its.

 

 

As for ignoring the rest of my post.... I just provided you edification of your implication that I was one of those people that gives up after making a double on the first hole...or making excuses....after a couple of bad holes.... No , I try Hard, just like my post here, triggered, personal whatevers I try to put effort and honesty while STILL having fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > Mellow Yello has assessed my game...

> >

> > First things first...there is no W in @MelloYello . I took my handle from the soda I was drinking at the time I signed up for WRX because, you now, _names matter_!

> >

> > Second, if you're going to add a W to "Mellow," wouldn't you also add it to "Yellow," LOL?

> >

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > ...and somehow I am breaking rules by playing MBs, PW-6iron. and MC 5 & 4 irons? Saying he knows more that my PW-6iron will and can benefit from playing a perimeter weighted club. Than the current make up I have.

> > >

> > > Secondly? "We said CBs are more forgiving for the average mid and high cap." I have never ONCE disputed the UNDERLYING FACT that a CB by MOI and weight is more forgiving than an MB. You apply the mid to high handicapper without taking the whole game of a player. THERE is no universal truth that a HIGH handicapper will benefit from a CB over an MB. WHILE truth is that it is the most **common** truth, it is NOT factually **universal**.

> > >

> > > Next? You are now the second person to make an egregious statement about me, You know nothing about my game yet implying after I make a couple doubles I change my tune? Why is there a need to do that? We are experience playing blades. When I first start on this sight years ago and I WAS I high handicap, I did the blades experience ALL of its. 20+ hdcp playing nike forged blades. Super tiny 2iron. talked the SAME excuses why I play it. Fast forward 7 years, fitting ,rounds experience moved the Players GI's got down to a single digit and dabbled back in to MB because of a deal and have not really switched since then. MY personal experience is MY personal experience. I have NOT justified that Blades in any way have made me better. But I have justified that by score and score alone I have shot the exact same or very similar scores and FOUND that MB or CB I found no NET benefit so I play what I **like **rather than stick to the single truth that CB having more forgiveness than an MB by MOI standards and playing them when I have that doubt in the back of my mind.

> > >

> > > Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

> > >

> >

> > Look, bro, however you feel, you really ought to lighten up. You come off as super triggered because people are talking about your clubs. It was kind of funny at first. Okay, yes, I was baiting and trolling you a bit yesterday. I was having a laugh.

> >

> > But dude, you were reacting _poorly_ and need to settle down with this business of being so serious. This is a chatroom of dorky golf dudes. Of course people can buy and play what they want. I wouldn't have it any other way.

> >

> > But this forum is for debating this kind of meaningless stuff. If it seems too mean or judgmental then don't participate, right? The only way it goes wrong is if people take it way personal.

> >

>

> **** it, see what happens with a I used a Blade type keyboard, I miss spell screen names. Sorry about that....

>

> Next I enjoy discussion very much hence the involvement and multiple post, Next you admit to baiting and trolling purposefully. Thats on you not me. I will maintain my facts and debates to edify my post. You can take it me being personal or triggered or whatever. That remains you baited and trolled with that intent anyways... So if you dont like how I retort then dont bait or troll?

>

> Reacted poorly? To a person that admitted to intentionally baiting and trolling? With that I have provide my information, debates, personal facts?

>

> All you have done is accuse me of something I am still not sure of. Assume by game based on your personal opinion and disregard anything of act that I posted.

>

> If you dont like facts. Then dont post either...? How does that sound? Stupid and silly no? So do what You like I will maintain the info from my experience without intentionally trolling and baiting like you admitted.

>

 

Your golf!? and who that said it was poorly? _Incredible_. how Dare you tell ME, Ultimately and again that I should Sound Stupid!?

 

No baiting. Wherever those who are trolls...THEY are the POSER!

 

play what you like. But don't tell me you hit THEM!

[Exactice808]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > Mellow Yello has assessed my game...

> > >

> > > First things first...there is no W in @MelloYello . I took my handle from the soda I was drinking at the time I signed up for WRX because, you now, _names matter_!

> > >

> > > Second, if you're going to add a W to "Mellow," wouldn't you also add it to "Yellow," LOL?

> > >

> > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > ...and somehow I am breaking rules by playing MBs, PW-6iron. and MC 5 & 4 irons? Saying he knows more that my PW-6iron will and can benefit from playing a perimeter weighted club. Than the current make up I have.

> > > >

> > > > Secondly? "We said CBs are more forgiving for the average mid and high cap." I have never ONCE disputed the UNDERLYING FACT that a CB by MOI and weight is more forgiving than an MB. You apply the mid to high handicapper without taking the whole game of a player. THERE is no universal truth that a HIGH handicapper will benefit from a CB over an MB. WHILE truth is that it is the most **common** truth, it is NOT factually **universal**.

> > > >

> > > > Next? You are now the second person to make an egregious statement about me, You know nothing about my game yet implying after I make a couple doubles I change my tune? Why is there a need to do that? We are experience playing blades. When I first start on this sight years ago and I WAS I high handicap, I did the blades experience ALL of its. 20+ hdcp playing nike forged blades. Super tiny 2iron. talked the SAME excuses why I play it. Fast forward 7 years, fitting ,rounds experience moved the Players GI's got down to a single digit and dabbled back in to MB because of a deal and have not really switched since then. MY personal experience is MY personal experience. I have NOT justified that Blades in any way have made me better. But I have justified that by score and score alone I have shot the exact same or very similar scores and FOUND that MB or CB I found no NET benefit so I play what I **like **rather than stick to the single truth that CB having more forgiveness than an MB by MOI standards and playing them when I have that doubt in the back of my mind.

> > > >

> > > > Can you factually state by universal truth that ALL mid to high handicaps would benefit and find a net benefit in relation to score of CBs over MB's. Because by Mellow and Your standards score is important right? Secondly NO I dont recall every given up after making a double after a double after the first hole.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Look, bro, however you feel, you really ought to lighten up. You come off as super triggered because people are talking about your clubs. It was kind of funny at first. Okay, yes, I was baiting and trolling you a bit yesterday. I was having a laugh.

> > >

> > > But dude, you were reacting _poorly_ and need to settle down with this business of being so serious. This is a chatroom of dorky golf dudes. Of course people can buy and play what they want. I wouldn't have it any other way.

> > >

> > > But this forum is for debating this kind of meaningless stuff. If it seems too mean or judgmental then don't participate, right? The only way it goes wrong is if people take it way personal.

> > >

> >

> > **** it, see what happens with a I used a Blade type keyboard, I miss spell screen names. Sorry about that....

> >

> > Next I enjoy discussion very much hence the involvement and multiple post, Next you admit to baiting and trolling purposefully. Thats on you not me. I will maintain my facts and debates to edify my post. You can take it me being personal or triggered or whatever. That remains you baited and trolled with that intent anyways... So if you dont like how I retort then dont bait or troll?

> >

> > Reacted poorly? To a person that admitted to intentionally baiting and trolling? With that I have provide my information, debates, personal facts?

> >

> > All you have done is accuse me of something I am still not sure of. Assume by game based on your personal opinion and disregard anything of act that I posted.

> >

> > If you dont like facts. Then dont post either...? How does that sound? Stupid and silly no? So do what You like I will maintain the info from my experience without intentionally trolling and baiting like you admitted.

> >

>

> Your golf!? and who that said it was poorly? _Incredible_. how Dare you tell ME, Ultimately and again that I should Sound Stupid!?

>

> No baiting. Wherever those who are trolls...THEY are the POSER!

>

> play what you like. But don't tell me you hit THEM!

 

Huuuhh? Not quite sure what you are trying to say LOL!?

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/18898125#Comment_18898125

1) First yes you implied that I have no reason to play PW-6iron in MB, since I admit that forgiveness in place of a 2,3,4,5 iron using more forgiving clubs. like a 5 wood and MC in my 4 & 5 iron.

2) You then imply that my PW-6iron in MB's are not blades as CB's and MB are the closest in that realm so I have no reason to advocate for MB?

3) Of course throw in the am I making $100k as a professional (Golfer)? NO where near that so thats a silly argument?

 

No baiting??? Yes you admitted to baiting and trolling

> @MelloYello said:

>

> Look, bro, however you feel, you really ought to lighten up. You come off as super triggered because people are talking about your clubs. It was kind of funny at first. Okay, yes,**** I was baiting and trolling you a bit yesterday. I was having a laugh.** **

>

 

To close YES sir, THAT was exactly my POST. I AM playing with what I like? It is something I prefer period I have not inserted anything else, that blades have made me better or blades are better than any other clubs? SO not sure why you are getting so worked up?

 

I dont understand your last part, "dont tell me you hit Them"? I do hit them want are you trying to say? I just dont get it?

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @Exactice808 said:

>

> Huuuhh? Not quite sure what you are trying to say LOL!?

> 1) First yes you implied that I have no reason to play PW-6iron in MB, since I admit that forgiveness in place of a 2,3,4,5 iron using more forgiving clubs. like a 5 wood and MC in my 4 & 5 iron.

 

Oh, _MAN_...the word about Forgiveness is all it takes. And this whole time...okay, so use Your 6-iron, but what about bad shots? Take those on the nose I guess?

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> 2) You then imply that my PW-6iron in MB's are not blades as CB's and MB are the closest in that realm so I have no reason to advocate for MB?

 

I have reason to advocate...but YOU are, too. Look, it's okay. But is there objective truth...not YOURS or MINE...about blades? or even cavities? shouldn't we try to find all of it!?

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> 3) Of course throw in the am I making $100k as a professional (Golfer)? NO where near that so thats a silly argument?

 

Okay.

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> To close YES sir, THAT was exactly my POST. I AM playing with what I like? It is something I prefer period I have not inserted anything else, that blades have made me better or blades are better than any other clubs? SO not sure why you are getting so worked up?

 

Well, working at it, LOL.

 

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> >

> > Try reading post 1141. Did you or did you not write that post ?

> >

> > You seem to have confused DSS and you seem to have been talking to me.

> >

> > Mind clarifying bro ? LOL

>

> Go back and read it, dude. Nothing confusing about it.

>

> What I wrote does also apply to you but it was directed at DSS who seemed to feel it necessary to describe having an ability that all human golfers have.

>

> He also disagreed with @pinestreetgolf who in this case has been spot on. He and I do not disagree.

 

If it’s an ability all humans have then why was the exact wording, “you remember incorrectly”. From your guy who you agree with.

 

Now, PSG added a qualifier later on, which I agreed with. Which was in regards to to a timeline. So before you start in on what I said, maybe you try to take the context of the conversation into account.

 

[MelloYello]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

>

> If it’s an ability all humans have then why was the exact wording, “you remember incorrectly”. From your guy who you agree with.

>

> Now, PSG added a qualifier later on, which I agreed with. Which was in regards to to a timeline. So before you start in on what I said, maybe you try to take the context of the conversation into account.

>

 

We were already talking about how memory degrades over time before you ever jumped (back) into the thread. I don't think you had bothered to read everything so when you stepped in to say that you disagreed with @pinestreetgolf as though he were wrong (which he wasn't) it just came off as..._rude_, particularly when he has consistently been one of the most informed, rationale and polite posters in the thread as of late.

 

I was then somewhat rude to you. My apologies.

 

I think I was simply annoyed by the number of times I read people describing how they could remember every shot after a round as if it were uncommon. We all do it.

[Exactice808]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Exac> @MelloYello said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> >

> > Huuuhh? Not quite sure what you are trying to say LOL!?

> > 1) First yes you implied that I have no reason to play PW-6iron in MB, since I admit that forgiveness in place of a 2,3,4,5 iron using more forgiving clubs. like a 5 wood and MC in my 4 & 5 iron.

>

> Oh, _MAN_...the word about Forgiveness is all it takes. And this whole time...okay, so use Your 6-iron, but what about bad shots? Take those on the nose I guess?

>

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > 2) You then imply that my PW-6iron in MB's are not blades as CB's and MB are the closest in that realm so I have no reason to advocate for MB?

>

> I have reason to advocate...but YOU are, too. Look, it's okay. But is there objective truth...not YOURS or MINE...about blades? or even cavities? shouldn't we try to find all of it!?

>

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > 3) Of course throw in the am I making $100k as a professional (Golfer)? NO where near that so thats a silly argument?

>

> Okay.

>

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > To close YES sir, THAT was exactly my POST. I AM playing with what I like? It is something I prefer period I have not inserted anything else, that blades have made me better or blades are better than any other clubs? SO not sure why you are getting so worked up?

>

> Well, working at it, LOL.

>

>

>

 

What about my 6 iron? What is the difference of a bad shot with an Cavity vs an MB tell me how a cavity negates a bad shot. I miss hit and chunk it.... Will the cavity net me better than a chunked MB? How about a toe, shot, or a heel shot. When a bad shot pops up... Its bad shot? Will likely NOT be putting for birdie.

 

NOW where we are apples and oranges AND I DO TOTALLY agree, know and understand where you are coming from (Truly in my heart to heart). IF I lacked the ability to produce quality strikes on a more consistent basis and that is in relation to a "mid to high handicap" per the thread. Here is the thing I consider myself a mid handicap on any given day lets say a 14. BUT with a large amount of practice and dedication I at one point was a 7... but after 2 kids 2 & 4 the golfing dedication is non existent. I know I personally have more quality strikes then misses (this applies to all clubs not just my irons) So playing MBs again, is a preference at this point.

 

BUT a true to new developing mid to high handicapper more TIMES than not Will or likely would benefit from a forgiving club to get around the course. BUT you know what made me personally a better golfer? Practice, proper instruction and evolving. SGI, GI, Players GIs or MB's did not make me a better player or score better.

 

developing a swing that created predictability and, a solid short game and solid putting was the ONLY real reason my scores got better. As I stated, how I likely would get back down to a 7 hdcp as my lowest career number? the same hours of practice and dedication PRE 2 kids.... my playing GI's would not likely change my scores in the same capacity of playing and practice that I am in now.

 

THIS actually goes to agree and edify with Pinestreet that there NEEDS to be some intent and focus.... So its a double edge sword. We agree Cavity backs HAS MORE forgivenss.... But more forgiveness does nothing without the proper focus, intent and practice..... ? How does that sound?

[deadsolid...shank]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> >

> > If it’s an ability all humans have then why was the exact wording, “you remember incorrectly”. From your guy who you agree with.

> >

> > Now, PSG added a qualifier later on, which I agreed with. Which was in regards to to a timeline. So before you start in on what I said, maybe you try to take the context of the conversation into account.

> >

>

> We were already talking about how memory degrades over time before you ever jumped (back) into the thread. I don't think you had bothered to read everything so when you stepped in to say that you disagreed with @pinestreetgolf as though he were wrong (which he wasn't) it just came off as..._rude_, particularly when he has consistently been one of the most informed, rationale and polite posters in the thread as of late.

>

> I was then somewhat rude to you. My apologies.

>

> I think I was simply annoyed by the number of times I read people describing how they could remember every shot after a round as if it were uncommon. We all do it.

 

It’s all good Mello. I was just coming back in to apologize for the tone in my post.

 

You’re correct, I’ve been reading the thread but haven’t posted since early on. I saw that particular statement and it pushed a button since PineStreet and I have had numerous “discussions” over the past years. Always civil, it’s simply he and I are on complete opposite sides of the issue. I probably was the one who should have been taking context into account instead of telling you to.

 

For the record however, Pine did tell NXS Guy he remembered incorrectly when he talked about recalling his round on the drive home.

I really don’t think there was anything I missed that was relevant to that particular statement

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @Exactice808 said:

> What about my 6 iron?

 

Why just that one though...isn't that the point?

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> I miss hit and chunk it.... Will the cavity net me better than a chunked MB?

 

Ha, A rose as if by which IT could be another named.

 

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> NOW where we are apples and oranges AND I DO TOTALLY agree, know and understand where you are coming from (Truly in my heart to heart). IF I lacked the ability to produce quality strikes on a more consistent basis and that is in relation to a "mid to high handicap" per the thread. Here is the thing I consider myself a mid handicap on any given day lets say a 14. BUT with a large amount of practice and dedication I at one point was a 7... but after 2 kids 2 & 4 the golfing dedication is non existent. I know I personally have more quality strikes then misses (this applies to all clubs not just my irons) So playing MBs again, is a preference at this point.

 

Documented case and different stories. We all said this. But, still, that's fine. We're all with you.

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> BUT a true to new developing mid to high handicapper more TIMES than not Will or likely would benefit from a forgiving club to get around the course. BUT you know what made me personally a better golfer? Practice, proper instruction and evolving. SGI, GI, Players GIs or MB's did not make me a better player or score better.

 

Okay.

 

> @Exactice808 said:

> developing a swing that created predictability and, a solid short game and solid putting was the ONLY real reason my scores got better. As I stated, how I likely would get back down to a 7 hdcp as my lowest career number? the same hours of practice and dedication PRE 2 kids.... my playing GI's would not likely change my scores in the same capacity of playing and practice that I am in now.

>

> THIS actually goes to agree and edify with Pinestreet that there NEEDS to be some intent and focus.... So its a double edge sword. We agree Cavity backs HAS MORE forgivenss.... But more forgiveness does nothing without the proper focus, intent and practice..... ? How does that sound?

 

And to the whole Argument about intention, I think...it has to say something towards Forgiveness. The effects ARE there?

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

>

> It’s all good Mello. I was just coming back in to apologize for the tone in my post.

>

> You’re correct, I’ve been reading the thread but haven’t posted since early on. I saw that particular statement and it pushed a button since PineStreet and I have had numerous “discussions” over the past years. Always civil, it’s simply he and I are on complete opposite sides of the issue. I probably was the one who should have been taking context into account instead of telling you to.

>

> I’ll go back to reading for a while.

>

>

 

Well, for what it's worth, his points resonated with me. Just last night I was just listening to a neurologist prof talk about how feelings drive mental processes, so a conversation dealing with how emotions influence memory...well...I was going to be pretty easily swayed. But I think what he says is dead on. It's solid science.

[Exactice808]

> @MelloYello said:

> >> Why just that one though...isn't that the point?

 

Well I used your case as you asked ... But I agree.. that goes back and forth to ANY CLUB right? But a miss hit is a miss hit, NOW if you ALWAYS miss hit, I doubt any club matters but a lesson?

>

> >> Ha, A rose as if by which IT could be another named.

LOL fair enough.... I can laugh

 

> > Documented case and different stories. We all said this. But, still, that's fine. We're all with you.

YES sir! I agree... thats is also just the slight contention that we have ,I AGREE... majority... but there are some one off cases so its NOT universal? fair? =)

 

> And to the whole Argument about intention, I think...it has to say something towards Forgiveness. The effects ARE there?

THIS is debatable? Can I start with this, Thank you Mello Yello, see we can debate respectfully. You had to hit my sig, that was personal LOL!!!!

 

Ok.... So Intent? let say this, we take 75 swings in a round of golf. and for argument sake pro's get about 90% solid pure shots (debate only)

A player like me I would say I get about 75% solid shots (I would say pure tour kind just good quality shots)

 

Now a Mid to high handicapper. THE NORMALITY is likely they are no better than 50% its a crap shoot right? But Here is the thing. DOES forgiveness of the iron itself increase the quality of shot? NOW it may help increase the ball speed on less then optimal strike , BUT if their face to path is off, or the swing path as whole is off the ball will not go towards its intended target? .. NO amount of forgiveness will help their shot? Right?

 

So again I honestly know where you are coming from..... I truly do. But this is the fun part of the debate right?

 

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

Cheers, @Exactice808 !