Bigger impact for a high handicapper: shorter shaft or new driver

[lopey986]

> @"Little Ned" said:

> FWIW ... I got fitted too. So I've gone down the path of a new driver. Getting lessons and hours on the range has helped **me** more than getting fitted and a new driver did.

 

The guy is already taking lessons, he's asking should he keep the sldr 430 and just put a shorter shaft in it...or get a whole new driver.

 

my opinion, you can put whatever shaft you want in the sldr 430 and it's still gonna give you trouble unless you get really good. that's a pretty tough driver to hit, especially for 20 capper. i'd go the route of callaway pre owned and get a gbb epic, it's pretty forgiving and still gives you a lot of adjustability options. you can have them trim the shaft for like an additional 4 dollars which is what i did, went down an inch on the driver.

[Johnnypenso]

IMO, don't overthink it. Cut your driver down to 44" or thereabouts, make sure it's swingweighted back to D2 or your favourite swingweight, and have at it. If a new driver is a possibility then don't worry about experimenting with this one, trade-in value is probably low anyway. I cut my 46" X2Hot down to 44" last year, had it properly swingweighted and had my best year driving the ball, by far. Went from 40 to 60% fairways hit and the misses were much tighter.

[Bamicus]

Get rid of that driver! Got one of those when they came out. Almost made me quit. Get something that is forgiving like a Ping of any last 3 generations.

[monkeyboy]

Maybe try bowling?

[Rich Douglas]

> @Therty said:

> Ok kids, Im a 20 handicapper who has Big driver struggles. Historical miss, big open face inpact slice. Swing changes moving towards fixing that, but now Ive got a big pull miss too. Im working on it.

> Knowing my swing is changing, lets talk equipment. I like playing as much golf as possible (~2 rds/week), so while Im improving my swing, id like to be able to lose less than the 11 strokes I took off the tee this weekend.

>

> Ive got an SLDR430. Dont everyone laugh at once. I measured the shaft, turns out its a 46” driver. Pause for effect. Knowing what we know (and considering it cost me $40), do I jump in on a $200-$300 full replacement, or do i trim the shaft down to 44.5 and get a new grip and continue to game it? Whats going to make a bigger immediate impact on my game while I continue to build my swing? (Yes, I have a professional and am taking lessons)

>

> Thoughts?

 

It's really hard to "shorten the shaft." You can trim the current shaft, but you'll also have to add weight to the head to keep the swingweight from getting way too light. This can be done with either liquid metal or lead tape. But it isn't a good solution because it changes the performance of the clubhead. It can change launch angle, spin rate, even the feel of impact.

 

A less expensive way to go is to simply choke down. Get a non-tapered grip, if that helps. The weight of the butt of the club will counterweight the club and bring the swingweight down, however, so beware. Also, you'll hold the club will be a little more upright, which will affect ball flight. (The club will be flatter than the upright stance you'll adopt to fit around the shorter-shafted driver. This will make the ball go right.)

 

The best way to go is to get a driver built and fit for a good playing length. It's only amateur suckers who go for these really long drivers; professionals prefer shorter drivers--they're more accurate and just as long (because of hitting the sweet spot more precisely and regularly).

 

46" is absurd. Consider 43.5", which is what drivers were when they were built with steel shafts. Good luck!

[Rich Douglas]

> @Therty said:

> Thanks for the inputs guys - I'll take a look at that DIY driver thread, and am looking into a fitting when I have some time to do so, at least to get all of the info.

>

> > @gvogel said:

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Mini driver. I have seen more than a few guys with an over-the-top swing benefit from a mini driver.

>

> Over-the-top delivery isn't my swing fault so much anymore. My biggest problem is I have almost no face control. It's a shot in the dark every swing. Trying to find the thoughts and feels that get this taken care of.

>

 

You cannot control the face. The face is making contact with the ball in a split-second; you cannot control it. Instead, you build a solid swing and repeat the feel as closely as you can with each shot.

[Righty to Lefty]

Even though I am not a high handicap I found that a longer shaft improved my strike with driver which shocked me actually. I was playing driver at 44 inches and was all over the face with my strike with a 70 gram Tensei white shaft installed. I put the head on a 100 gram Tensei white shaft playing at 43.5 inches and I actually hit it even worse! I then put the head in a 70 gram Tensei Orange V2 shaft playing at 46 inches and my strike pattern and leverage on the driver improved tremendously and it has remained solid for two months of testing now ( When I find a setup that I like I give it at least 6 months to make sure that it is optimal for me as this allows me to get over the honeymoon phase and give my body a chance to fully adjust to the change and accept it). Now that I think back over my testing, even though the Tensei Orange shaft is slight softer in the tip section than the Tensei white profile, they are very similar bend profiles, I feel that the biggest contributor was the swing weight change.

 

I am a high swing weight player (Like E9 in irons and F8 in driver because the head is 460 cc's and it took more weight for me to get the same dense head feel that I get from my mini driver and fairway wood) and I found that the most important factors for me in a clubs are the total weight and swing weight. I MUST feel the club's CoG tracking around me at all times or I will hit it poorly. The extra mass that I added to my club heads, which is actually only about 25-30 grams, when set in motion make a big difference in the ability to feel the CoG moving around you. I think that total weight and swing weight are the two most important factors to a club but in the case with my driver the increase in total weight didn't work when I went to the "short and heavy setup" when I put the 100 gram shaft in the driver playing at 43.5. It took me ramping up the swing weight by adding 2 inches of length to find the perfect blend for me. I found that when you get it right you can hit shots in slow motion and still find leverage.

 

In my opinion before any golfer changes equipment they need to find out what type of golfer they are in relation to swing weight and total weight because off the rack club are designed to fit the average golfer. The industry always puts out clubs in the D4 swing weight range and they all seem to cater to it and all the club heads are in the same weight range so you are basically getting the same club with a different logo on it and maybe a slight CoG distribution in the club head. If you have never swung a club at C4 or E4 swing weight or 50 grams heavier or lighter then in my opinion you have never been fully fit for a club. Shaft, grip and club head are easy to fit for but swing weight, total weight, and CoG location are what make a golfer hit the ball with leverage because it will match the golfer's tempo. CoG location is important because its location is what tricks the golfer into finding the the optimal spot on the club face.

 

I found that I had to go to extremes to find out what I liked and hitting a club that is a couple grams heavier or 4 or 5 swing weight points heavier or lighter isn't going to cut it so don't be afraid to really experiment with your clubs to find out what you like. Just my 2 cents.

[stashtv]

Rid yourself of the SLDR: its a painfully unforgiving driver. TaylorMade went all in with performance with the SLDR drivers, but their downside was a lack of forgiveness.

eBay (and other used sites) have drivers that are far more forgiving in performance and price. A few year used Ping G/G30 would *much* easier to hit for more consistent results.

[bobveraz]

Why not keep the driver in the bag and use a 3 wood off the tee? Have you tried this and what happens to your scores?

 

When you decide to get a different driver, spend the $ and get fit. Just buying another driver used or new off the ‘rack’ or eBay is risking it’s not for you and may result in different problems. Every player regardless of handicap index can benefit from a fitting.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @"Rich Douglas" said:

> > @Therty said:

> > Thanks for the inputs guys - I'll take a look at that DIY driver thread, and am looking into a fitting when I have some time to do so, at least to get all of the info.

> >

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> > > Mini driver. I have seen more than a few guys with an over-the-top swing benefit from a mini driver.

> >

> > Over-the-top delivery isn't my swing fault so much anymore. My biggest problem is I have almost no face control. It's a shot in the dark every swing. Trying to find the thoughts and feels that get this taken care of.

> >

>

> You cannot control the face. The face is making contact with the ball in a split-second; you cannot control it. Instead, you build a solid swing and repeat the feel as closely as you can with each shot.

 

Very well said, Rich Douglas.

 

Try this experiment. Go put your driver head horizontally against a post while facing the post, as if the post was a waist-high ball. Make a backswing. Now drop your right shoulder four inches. Now try to come back to the same spot on the post. Its virtually impossible. This time, do the same thing but don't drop the shoulder just turn it. It comes back on its own to the same place.

 

Level shoulders at address at impact are what allows the face to return at the same spot. Most players jack up their left shoulder with driver to try to fake an upward angel of attack. Two good swing thoughts:

 

1. The shoulders start and stay 90* to your spine. This isn't quite true as the right is slightly below the left (since the right hand is below the left hand on the grip) but it is close to 90*. Most players, again to try to force upward AoA, create an obtuse angle with their L shoulder and actute with R shoulder on downswing.

 

2. The hip bones and shoulder blades are connected. If your hips change altitutde, so do your shoulders. There is an old saying "hips control shoulders, shoulders control arms, arms control club path therefore hips control club path". If you keep your hips level while swinging a driver it is much easier to return the face to the ball the same way everytime. Most mistakes in this thought are R hip dropping, L hip rising to make the club go up (which people think they should do with driver) as they turn. Turn them level.

[Therty]

Thanks pinestreet, ill try and digest some of this.

 

I hit some more balls today. Swingweight is a big factor for me I think. I hit g410 with 2 weights and it felt much more comfortable. ~153 ballspeed, but spin up in the 3000s. Basically same story with epic flash. Hit my longest drives again with SLDR, ~270 carry.

 

 

I need to do some shaft/loft/swingweight tinkering with my pro to try and dial the spin down a bit.

 

Lots of new seing thoughts today proved to be VERY positive. A much better AoA and much better club face to path relationship producing straighter drives all around.

 

More testing on Tuesday.

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @"Rich Douglas" said:

> > > @Therty said:

> > > Thanks for the inputs guys - I'll take a look at that DIY driver thread, and am looking into a fitting when I have some time to do so, at least to get all of the info.

> > >

> > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > Thoughts?

> > > >

> > > > Mini driver. I have seen more than a few guys with an over-the-top swing benefit from a mini driver.

> > >

> > > Over-the-top delivery isn't my swing fault so much anymore. My biggest problem is I have almost no face control. It's a shot in the dark every swing. Trying to find the thoughts and feels that get this taken care of.

> > >

> >

> > You cannot control the face. The face is making contact with the ball in a split-second; you cannot control it. Instead, you build a solid swing and repeat the feel as closely as you can with each shot.

>

> Very well said, Rich Douglas.

>

> Try this experiment. Go put your driver head horizontally against a post while facing the post, as if the post was a waist-high ball. Make a backswing. Now drop your right shoulder four inches. Now try to come back to the same spot on the post. Its virtually impossible. This time, do the same thing but don't drop the shoulder just turn it. It comes back on its own to the same place.

>

> Level shoulders at address at impact are what allows the face to return at the same spot. Most players jack up their left shoulder with driver to try to fake an upward angel of attack. Two good swing thoughts:

>

> 1. The shoulders start and stay 90* to your spine. This isn't quite true as the right is slightly below the left (since the right hand is below the left hand on the grip) but it is close to 90*. Most players, again to try to force upward AoA, create an obtuse angle with their L shoulder and actute with R shoulder on downswing.

>

> 2. The hip bones and shoulder blades are connected. If your hips change altitutde, so do your shoulders. There is an old saying "hips control shoulders, shoulders control arms, arms control club path therefore hips control club path". If you keep your hips level while swinging a driver it is much easier to return the face to the ball the same way everytime. Most mistakes in this thought are R hip dropping, L hip rising to make the club go up (which people think they should do with driver) as they turn. Turn them level.

 

 

 

 

 

[leejohnkieh]

My suggestion would be to buy a used/older driver. Don't spend the money for a last year or new driver. Play with that and as you improve with your swing/lessons, then look into getting fitted.

I don't like buying a new driver now as you're shooting in the 90s and say a few months down the road, your swing changes. Then you may need to get a new shaft or it turns out the head no longer fits you.

[shokosugi]

Hey OP- my advice would be to self-fit first. I apologize as I haven't read the whole thread so hopefully I'm not repeating too much from what others have said. Anyways, in my opinion, try to figure out the basic shaft characteristics you are looking for first- weight, kickpoint/ tip stiffness, feel etc. From there you can then experiment with shaft length and headweight and then finally head type( high spin/low spin). I'd recommend buying a bunch of different combos that are a few years old and start testing. If you get decent deals then you should be able to resell the clubs that don't work for the same or more money than you paid. Once you figure it out, you can upgrade to the newer stuff should you want to. The original m1/m2 drivers were awesome and will be cheap, same with the ping g/g30. I'm sure you could find lots of guys on wrx with multiple head/ shaft combos available that you could pick up cheap as a package and then resell individually whatever doesn't work and you won't lose much coin if any. It will take time so be patient. For me, it sometimes takes a few rounds to make an informed decision. Of course sometimes it just takes a few swings to know something won't work either but that's the fun part IMO. Happy hunting!

[Therty]

> @shokosugi said:

> Hey OP- my advice would be to self-fit first. I apologize as I haven't read the whole thread so hopefully I'm not repeating too much from what others have said. Anyways, in my opinion, try to figure out the basic shaft characteristics you are looking for first- weight, kickpoint/ tip stiffness, feel etc. From there you can then experiment with shaft length and headweight and then finally head type( high spin/low spin). I'd recommend buying a bunch of different combos that are a few years old and start testing. If you get decent deals then you should be able to resell the clubs that don't work for the same or more money than you paid. Once you figure it out, you can upgrade to the newer stuff should you want to. The original m1/m2 drivers were awesome and will be cheap, same with the ping g/g30. I'm sure you could find lots of guys on wrx with multiple head/ shaft combos available that you could pick up cheap as a package and then resell individually whatever doesn't work and you won't lose much coin if any. It will take time so be patient. For me, it sometimes takes a few rounds to make an informed decision. Of course sometimes it just takes a few swings to know something won't work either but that's the fun part IMO. Happy hunting!

 

This is basically what I'm doing. The nice thing is that I have a good relationship with the guys at my local golftec and have been using their bays and equipment long, long after my small package has expired. So I have a good opportunity to hit a lot of combos and see whats working.