Golf Digest 2019-2020 public rankings.

[FairwayFred]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @FairwayFred said:

> >

> > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> >

> > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> >

> > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> >

> > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> >

> > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

>

> I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

 

That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

[Argonne69]

> @FairwayFred said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @FairwayFred said:

> > >

> > > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> > >

> > > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> > >

> > > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> > >

> > > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> > >

> > > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

> >

> > I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

>

> That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

 

On the flipside, I had a great experience with my junior caddie at Sand Valley, and a horrid experience at Erin Hills with a professional caddie.

[10&8]

> @TUGolfer06 said:

> Played a few and will likely knock a couple more off this year(Tobacco Road, Bethpage Black).

> (13) Arcadia Bluffs; played May 5th 2016, absolutely loved the course/experience!

> (73) The Virtues Club; played July 2018. I was not overly impressed. The layout was nice but nothing truly memorable imo. The conditions were solid but certainly not what I would expect for a Top 100 course. With that said, I kind of want to play it again.

> (74) Bulle Rock; played back in 2010. I thought it was excellent. I favored the back 9 a little more iirc. I'd like another crack at it.

> I think Taconic and Bedford Springs are worth consideration. Likewise the Links of North Dakota.

 

> @TUGolfer06 said:

> Played a few and will likely knock a couple more off this year(Tobacco Road, Bethpage Black).

> (13) Arcadia Bluffs; played May 5th 2016, absolutely loved the course/experience!

> (73) The Virtues Club; played July 2018. I was not overly impressed. The layout was nice but nothing truly memorable imo. The conditions were solid but certainly not what I would expect for a Top 100 course. With that said, I kind of want to play it again.

> (74) Bulle Rock; played back in 2010. I thought it was excellent. I favored the back 9 a little more iirc. I'd like another crack at it.

> I think Taconic and Bedford Springs are worth consideration. Likewise the Links of North Dakota.

 

I’m glad you mentioned the Links of North Dakota. It was always in the top 100 for many years after it opened in ‘95. Unfortunately I don’t think the raters get out there anymore. I’m obviously biased since it’s my home course, but it’s always an absolute joy to play and I’ve never grown tired of playing it. I’ve played many great courses over the years, and it’s still in my top 5.

 

[cardoustie]

Saddens me I only have 8 of these public's under my belt. And I have almost 500 different courses on my lifetime played list. Will need to grab a RV and hit all these when I retire

Interesting debating above

The ratings are a comped scam as pointed out. Same nonsense goes on up here in Canada.

[Big A HG]

> @cardoustie said:

> The ratings are a comped scam as pointed out. Same nonsense goes on up here in Canada.

 

I wouldn't say it's a scam. There are many reasons already mentioned as to why the ratings will fluctuate as much as they do. It's just that there's no great way to judge hundreds (thousands?) of courses that span an entire continent (plus AK and HI) of which may be legitimate courses worth rating. Certainly many courses are disadvantaged based on location and outside of the few things you can rate objectively, most of the rankings are devised by a subjective review.

 

The list is a fun way to remember old favorites or find new gems and certainly doesn't devalue courses that would be in that 100-200 or beyond range. If you think those courses are great, go have fun playing them.

 

[FairwayFred]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @FairwayFred said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > >

> > > > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> > > >

> > > > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > > > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> > > >

> > > > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> > > >

> > > > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> > > >

> > > > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

> > >

> > > I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

> >

> > That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

>

> On the flipside, I had a great experience with my junior caddie at Sand Valley, and a horrid experience at Erin Hills with a professional caddie.

 

Yes that's always a possibility. I'd say I've had more terrible experiences with professional adult caddies than kids. At the end of the round you generally have to give that professional caddy $100+ which makes it harder to swallow when that caddy detracts from your day.

[jvincent]

I think part of the reason for the list is to stir up debate.

 

I've played 26 of the current list, including 9 of the top 10. I had all 10 until Shadow Creek made the list.

 

I have my preferences to be sure, but none of the courses that I've played I would ever think of calling "bad". I can buy that some people think a specific course is over or underrated but that often comes down to preference or whether they had a bad day, or something else that I might not care about, like clubhouse facilities as an example.

[mci711]

> @jvincent said:

> I think part of the reason for the list is to stir up debate.

>

> I've played 26 of the current list, including 9 of the top 10. I had all 10 until Shadow Creek made the list.

>

> I have my preferences to be sure, but none of the courses that I've played I would ever think of calling "bad". I can buy that some people think a specific course is over or underrated but that often comes down to preference or whether they had a bad day, or something else that I might not care about, like clubhouse facilities as an example.

 

I agree with this. Any course that is ranked as a top course is going to be good. I've played a decent amount of top public courses (4 of top 5, also missing shadow creek and double digits top 20). I get asked what the best course is I have played and it is almost impossible to answer. I would take any one of them to play every day. A few stand out in my head as better overall days. But that is because I played well there - Bethpage, Erin Hills, Arcadia stand out. But really I think of courses as tiered now any course that is ranked in the top 10-15 is interchangeable depending on preference, you could go even further to 30 probably.

[Argonne69]

I've played half the public Top 100, including 20 out of the Top 25, and I've yet to play a "bad" course. Yeah, there were some expectations that weren't met, and a handful of bad experiences, but one must try to separate the experience from the course.

 

Of the 50 courses, only 5 have been played more than once. That means that your first experience is generally your only experience, and it's possible you'll hit it on a bad day. When I judge conditions, I'm looking for conditions that aren't warranted for the time of year, or recent weather.

[Roadking2003]

> @jvincent said:

> I think part of the reason for the list is to stir up debate.

>

> I've played 26 of the current list, including 9 of the top 10. I had all 10 until Shadow Creek made the list.

>

> I have my preferences to be sure, but none of the courses that I've played I would ever think of calling "bad". I can buy that some people think a specific course is over or underrated but that often comes down to preference or whether they had a bad day, or something else that I might not care about, like clubhouse facilities as an example.

 

I doubt there are any bad courses among the top 200.

[Dave Saylor]

I have played 10 on the list and almost everyone of them I left thinking man I love this place, I could play this 100 times and never get bored, better go buy a lotto ticket. I was interested in what is the average cost? I did some quick internet searches to find out and figured I would share my results. Do not beat me up, I'm sure I'm off on some of these, was harder than I thought for some tracks, but should be an ok ballpark. Tried to find Peak Rates, some are missing required hotels, one rate includes a ferry ride, ect. These are just estimates. Enjoy.

 

Estimates

1 PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS 595

2 PACIFIC DUNES 335

3 WHISTLING STRAITS (STRAITS) 475

4 THE OCEAN COURSE 193

5 SHADOW CREEK 500

6 PINEHURST RESORT (No. 2) 405

7 BANDON DUNES 335

8 BETHPAGE STATE PARK (BLACK) 150

9 ERIN HILLS G. CSE. 350

10 SPYGLASS HILL G. CSE. 440

11 TPC SAWGRASS (PLAYERS STADIUM) 550

12 OLD MACDONALD 335

13 ARCADIA BLUFFS G.C. 215

14 BANDON TRAILS 335

15 BLACKWOLF RUN (RIVER) 330

16 PASATIEMPO G.C. 307

17 THE PETE DYE CSE. AT FRENCH LICK RESORT 350

18 SAND VALLEY 215

19 STREAMSONG (RED) 275

20 KARSTEN CREEK G.C. 400

21 CHAMBERS BAY 275

22 KAPALUA (PLANTATION) 329

23 HARBOUR TOWN G. LINKS 350

24 STREAMSONG (BLUE) 275

25 THE OMNI HOMESTEAD RESORT (CASCADES) 300

26 MAUNA KEA G. CSE 295

27 MAMMOTH DUNES 215

28 FOREST DUNES G.C. 160

29 MANELE GOLF COURSE 485

30 THE HIGHLAND COURSE AT PRIMLAND 200

31 THE QUARRY AT GIANTS RIDGE 97

32 STREAMSONG BLACK 275

33 SEA ISLAND G.C. (SEASIDE) 150

34 THE GREENBRIER (OLD WHITE TPC) 450

35 GAMBLE SANDS G.C. 170

36 TORREY PINES G. CSE. (SOUTH) 202

37 PRONGHORN CLUB (NICKLAUS) 215

38 FALLEN OAK 200

39 THE BROADMOOR G.C. (EAST) 290

40 MAY RIVER G.C. AT PALMETTO BLUFF 320

41 THE PRAIRIE CLUB (DUNES) 350

42 WILDERNESS CLUB 135

43 WHISTLING STRAITS (IRISH) 250

44 SENTRYWORLD G. CSE. 155

45 THE LOOP (BLACK) 160

46 CORDEVALLE G.C. 420

47 THE LOOP (RED) 160

48 THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY 310

49 PGA WEST (TPC STADIUM) 200

50 PAA-KO RIDGE G.C. 114

51 COG HILL G. & C.C. (NO. 4) 155

52 TOBACCO ROAD G.C. 150

53 WOLF CREEK G.C. 230

54 MARQUETTE G.C. (GREYWALLS) 145

55 CROSSWATER 145

56 THE DUNES G. & BEACH CLUB 201

57 BLACKWOLF RUN (MEADOW VALLEYS) 330

58 THE G. COURSES OF LAWSONIA (LINKS) 99

59 THE CLASSIC AT MADDEN'S RESORT 160

60 OLD WAVERLY G.C. 166

61 TULLYMORE G.C. 160

62 CASCATA 250

63 MOSSY OAK 150

64 PINEHURST RESORT (NO. 8) 250

65 MAKAI G.C. (MAKAI) 275

66 NEMACOLIN WOODLANDS RESORT (MYSTIC ROCK) 275

67 GOLDEN HORSESHOE G.C. (GOLD) 169

68 WILD HORSE G.C. 78

69 TROY BURNE G.C. 88

70 ATUNYOTE G.C. 225

71 TETHEROW G.C. 190

72 THE WILDERNESS AT FORTUNE BAY 102

73 THE VIRTUES G.C. 100

74 BULLE ROCK 99

75 TRUMP NATIONAL DORAL MIAMI (BLUE MONSTER) 450

76 RED SKY RANCH & GC (FAZIO) 250

77 CALEDONIA G. & FISH CLUB 370

78 RED SKY G.C. (NORMAN) 250

79 PINE NEEDLES LODGE & G.C. 235

80 BAY HARBOR (MICH.) G.C. (LINKS/QUARRY) 200

81 POPPY HILLS G. CSE. 250

82 WORLD WOODS G.C. (PINE BARRENS) 178

83 PELICAN HILL G.C. (OCEAN SOUTH) 310

84 QUINTERO G.C. 275

85 OMNI BARTON CREEK RESORT & SPA (FAZIO CANYONS) 200

86 HUALALAI G. CSE. 295

87 PUMPKIN RIDGE G.C. (GHOST CREEK) 125

88 THE PRAIRIE CLUB (PINES) 200

89 BELVEDERE G.C. 99

90 TPC SAN ANTONIO (AT&T OAKS) 299

91 MID PINES INN & G.C. 215

92 BOYNE HIGHLANDS (HEATHER) 202

93 TORREY PINES G. CSE. (NORTH) 200

94 GREAT WATERS AT REYNOLDS LAKE OCONEE 195

95 GRAND TRAVERSE RESORT & SPA (THE BEAR) 150

96 PELICAN HILL GC (OCEAN NORTH) 310

97 POIPU BAY G. CSE. 250

98 KALUHYAT G.C. 150

99 THE DONALD ROSS CSE. AT FRENCH LICK RESORT 120

100 INNISBROOK GOLF RESORT (COPPERHEAD) 115

Average 246.82

Average Top 10 377.8

Average Top 50 291.94

Average Top 51-100 201.7

[Argonne69]

I see Pebble's rate at $550 to walk for non resort guests. Spyglass is $395. There are discount rates for most of the year.

 

If a course allows walking, I would list the walking rate. I would expect most avid golfers to walk the top courses if possible.

[CDM]

> @FairwayFred said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > > > > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> > > > >

> > > > > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

> > > >

> > > > I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

> > >

> > > That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

> >

> > On the flipside, I had a great experience with my junior caddie at Sand Valley, and a horrid experience at Erin Hills with a professional caddie.

>

> Yes that's always a possibility. I'd say I've had more terrible experiences with professional adult caddies than kids. At the end of the round you generally have to give that professional caddy $100+ which makes it harder to swallow when that caddy detracts from your day.

 

110%..!! Can count a number of times I have handed over the $$$ at the end of a round but took the higher road and bit my lip on telling them what I really thought.....

 

I just put them on the "list" of never use. Latest was at Dormie Club. Caddie was not even my caddie. No way would I want that person to caddie for me. Felt so sorry for the other player.

[mci711]

> @"Dave Saylor" said:

> I have played 10 on the list and almost everyone of them I left thinking man I love this place, I could play this 100 times and never get bored, better go buy a lotto ticket. I was interested in what is the average cost? I did some quick internet searches to find out and figured I would share my results. Do not beat me up, I'm sure I'm off on some of these, was harder than I thought for some tracks, but should be an ok ballpark. Tried to find Peak Rates, some are missing required hotels, one rate includes a ferry ride, ect. These are just estimates. Enjoy.

>

> Estimates

> 4 THE OCEAN COURSE 193

 

That is about half the rate of The Ocean Course. Thanks for putting in the effort for this though! Interesting to see. I've played 13 of the top 16 and I think the only ones I played full price for were Pebble, Erin Hills and Bethpage Black (great deal at $150).

 

 

 

[puttnforthe8]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @FairwayFred said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > >

> > > > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> > > >

> > > > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > > > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> > > >

> > > > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> > > >

> > > > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> > > >

> > > > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

> > >

> > > I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

> >

> > That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

>

> On the flipside, I had a great experience with my junior caddie at Sand Valley, and a horrid experience at Erin Hills with a professional caddie.

 

Same here; at Erin one of the caddies we had was useless except for the carry and the other actually started insulting one of the guys he was carrying for that it almost led to a fight.

[CDM]

> @puttnforthe8 said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > > > > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> > > > >

> > > > > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

> > > >

> > > > I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

> > >

> > > That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

> >

> > On the flipside, I had a great experience with my junior caddie at Sand Valley, and a horrid experience at Erin Hills with a professional caddie.

>

> Same here; at Erin one of the caddies we had was useless except for the carry and the other actually started insulting one of the guys he was carrying for that it almost led to a fight.

 

MENTAL NOTE TO SELF : When playing Erin Hills.... CARRY your own bag so you don't go to jail for beating a caddie on the course =)

 

_Edit: All serious, I have not played EH, but am really shocked at how many bad reviews you read about related to the caddies at that course..??_

[puttnforthe8]

> @CDM said:

> > @puttnforthe8 said:

> > > @Argonne69 said:

> > > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > @FairwayFred said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Golf Digest also tells panelists to take into account if there has been rain and if it's been excessively wet and use that info for the ranking. So it's supposed to be based on what you know about recent weather and how the course has handled it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Same with Golf Week. From your quote:

> > > > > > "beyond day-to-day changes because of weather, aerification, overseeding or repairs".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's up to the rater to use an educated opinion based on what they know. If it's been dry and has not rained and the course is wet, lush and green then obviously that course would not get a great rating for that catagory from GD. On the other hand if it's rained a bunch lately and the course has handled it well, it's not overly saturated the ball is bouncing a little that course would get a very good rating in that catagory from GD.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's not completely based on what you saw that day you need to take into account external factors that effect it day to day. You can't expect a course your playing that has been closed all winter to be perfect in the spring like you would in the summer or early fall. Likewise you can't expect a course in a hot area to be perfect in the summer if that's when you happen to play it. Anyone that is a rater should have the experience and knowledge to understand this and use this info in their rankings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also I'd hope we can agree that conditions will change less day to day and visit to visit than your experience with your caddy. Atleast it's the same course your seeing, more than likely you will have a different caddy the next time you go.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't use a formula, but I'm sure my individual caddy has very little, if any, impact on my rating. What I do note, however, is that a course has professional caddies like Erin Hills, Sand Valley, and Old Head, as opposed to the schoolboys we had at one course in Ireland (I think it was Portmarnock).

> > > >

> > > > That's a very good point. There is definitely a difference between a place with professional, adult caddies and a place with kids as caddies which is very common where I live.

> > >

> > > On the flipside, I had a great experience with my junior caddie at Sand Valley, and a horrid experience at Erin Hills with a professional caddie.

> >

> > Same here; at Erin one of the caddies we had was useless except for the carry and the other actually started insulting one of the guys he was carrying for that it almost led to a fight.

>

> MENTAL NOTE TO SELF : When playing Erin Hills.... CARRY your own bag so you don't go to jail for beating a caddie on the course =)

>

> _Edit: All serious, I have not played EH, but am really shocked at how many bad reviews you read about related to the caddies at that course..??_

 

I didn't even mention that my caddie lost my P. Gibbons custom headcover somewhere....it was never returned and I got not even so much as an "i'm sorry" from anyone. :(

[sabram]

> @"Dave Saylor" said:

> I have played 10 on the list and almost everyone of them I left thinking man I love this place, I could play this 100 times and never get bored, better go buy a lotto ticket. I was interested in what is the average cost? I did some quick internet searches to find out and figured I would share my results. Do not beat me up, I'm sure I'm off on some of these, was harder than I thought for some tracks, but should be an ok ballpark. Tried to find Peak Rates, some are missing required hotels, one rate includes a ferry ride, ect. These are just estimates. Enjoy.

 

> 77 CALEDONIA G. & FISH CLUB 370

 

Dace S - I've played 49 of the 100 listed courses and have never paid a green fee as high as what you listed, although the Ocean Course cost more than what you listed if you add mandatory caddie. The Caledonia fee has to be a mistake. No one has ever paid $370 to play there. I just played last week for about the tenth time (This is peak season in MB) and it was about $200 in the morning and $160 in the afternoon.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @CDM said:

> _Edit: All serious, I have not played EH, but am really shocked at how many bad reviews you read about related to the caddies at that course..??_

 

Eight of us had very good caddies at EH last year. Maybe we just got lucky.

[mci711]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @CDM said:

> > _Edit: All serious, I have not played EH, but am really shocked at how many bad reviews you read about related to the caddies at that course..??_

>

> Eight of us had very good caddies at EH last year. Maybe we just got lucky.

 

One of my favorite caddies I have ever had was at EH. One of my worst Pebble Beach.

[LICC]

The bottom 50 on this list seem random and somewhat odd. Ferry Point is better than quite a few of the courses on this list that I have played. And how is Erin Hills allowed to be on a list that Ron Whitten runs while he was a designer of the course? It is ranked much higher here than in other publications.

[Roadking2003]

> @LICC said:

> The bottom 50 on this list seem random and somewhat odd. Ferry Point is better than quite a few of the courses on this list that I have played. And how is Erin Hills allowed to be on a list that Ron Whitten runs while he was a designer of the course? It is ranked much higher here than in other publications.

 

He who owns the list makes the rules for the list.

 

Seriously, while there is some overlap, each of the ranking agencies uses different criteria.

[LICC]

Yes but this list seems the most off-kilter to me. And Golf Digest owns the list- I'm surprised they let Whitten pump up his own course. Makes me wonder what other conflicts/incentives are driving these rankings.

[mci711]

> @LICC said:

> Yes but this list seems the most off-kilter to me. And Golf Digest owns the list- I'm surprised they let Whitten pump up his own course. Makes me wonder what other conflicts/incentives are driving these rankings.

 

You are speaking like Erin Hills is a dog track. It is a great course, US Open venue. It is ranked top 25ish in every ranking. Like everyone has said, it is suggestive and is there really a difference between the 9th and 25th best course?

[LICC]

I don't question that Erin Hills is a great course and deserving to be on the list. But yes top-10 is meaningful compared to farther along. Golfweek has it as the 5th best course in Wisconsin and 99th of modern courses (all courses, not just public). In my view having a US Open is a factor in overrating it. Torrey Pines is by no means a great course but it gets in these lists because it holds the US Open.

[mci711]

> @LICC said:

> I don't question that Erin Hills is a great course and deserving to be on the list. But yes top-10 is meaningful compared to farther along. Golfweek has it as the 5th best course in Wisconsin and 99th of modern courses (all courses, not just public). In my view having a US Open is a factor in overrating it. Torrey Pines is by no means a great course but it gets in these lists because it holds the US Open.

 

True, I don't disagree with that last statement.

[jvincent]

> @LICC said:

> In my view having a US Open is a factor in overrating it. Torrey Pines is by no means a great course but it gets in these lists because it holds the US Open.

 

This is one of the biggest flaws with all of the list. Courses that are famous because they hold tour events and/or majors tend to get a bump in the ratings because we've all seen them and want to play the same courses as the pros.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @LICC said:

> I don't question that Erin Hills is a great course and deserving to be on the list. But yes top-10 is meaningful compared to farther along. Golfweek has it as the 5th best course in Wisconsin and 99th of modern courses (all courses, not just public). In my view having a US Open is a factor in overrating it. Torrey Pines is by no means a great course but it gets in these lists because it holds the US Open.

 

Why don't you think the course history should matter? I love playing courses that I've seen on TV and especially the majors. Without considering the course history a lot of venues (St Andrews is a good example) would move way down on my list.

[Roadking2003]

> @jvincent said:

> > @LICC said:

> > In my view having a US Open is a factor in overrating it. Torrey Pines is by no means a great course but it gets in these lists because it holds the US Open.

>

> This is one of the biggest flaws with all of the list. Courses that are famous because they hold tour events and/or majors tend to get a bump in the ratings because we've all seen them and want to play the same courses as the pros.

>

 

Maybe it isn't a flaw. It's just another way to evaluate courses.

[LICC]

There are very, very few courses that have such a history or tournament game that it would add to my experience of playing the course itself. Probably less than 5 courses in the world. Erin Hills isn’t one of them.