A bad 45 on 9.....will it ever come

[Spooky67]

My home course is 72.5/141. It’s tough but mostly fair IMO. I usually shoot 95-100. My goal has been to break 90 on this course. I usually start slow but today I played 9 and scored par, par, bogey, bogey, par, quad, bogey, bogey, bogey. The first six holes are pretty tough and the quad came on the toughest hole on the course. Ive never started that hot and felt like I was going to break through until #6. That hole is brutal and bogey is a good score but the quad killed my 9. Outside of that hole I played about as good as I’m capable of at the moment. Anyone else have a hole that haunts them or played a great round but had it killed by one misstep?

[RickK]

Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

[Spooky67]

> @RickKimbrell said:

> Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

 

The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

 

[MountainGoat]

Ordinarily, I'd say that someone shooting 95-100 on a course rated 72.5/141 is playing from the wrong tees. But, the hole you're describing is beyond the ability of everyone I know. We had a hole like that at a club around here, but it was a par-5. Guys got in trouble because they couldn't bring themselves to hit an iron off the tee followed by a 150 yard layup. But, without a layup area, the hole you're describing is pretty close to impossible for an 18 handicap.

[SixtySomePing]

There's some really good advice here Spooky. Use an iron off the tee for placement. Then your next shot again for placement. Don't think par for now. Course management in this case becomes hole management. This hole has become your nemesis simply because you have let it. From here you'll need to rethink your strategy, have a plan and execute it. Start out off the tee with a positive attitude and a vision of a successful completion of your plan. Anything is better than a quad. Don't think of the hole as brutal, use the same swings and approach to the game as you do on the other holes. Make sure your body doesn't tense up on this hole, let things flow freely, and play it a shot at a time. You get pars on other holes, you can eventually do it on this one, this is just a hole too. A bogey on this hole or even a double will be nothing to be ashamed of right a first but stick to it, and continue to adjust your plan based on results of the previous time you played it with a plan. The hole might appear brutal but it's not smart, that's where you can have the advantage.

[Hawkeye77]

Billy Casper won a US Open laying up on a long par 3 every day. I agree with the post above. Figure out a way to play it to make the best but realistic for you score possible.

[Moxley]

Take the advice on playing for GIR +1 - this is fine for a 90s shooter on SI1 hole. I'd be surprised if there isn't a way to do this because what are the seniors meant to do?

 

I have a similar hole on my course, and I play 4i followed by a layup followed by a pitch. I sometimes mess up the pitch and get a 6 but that's not terminal in a stroke play. I only attack the hole when playing stableford.

Play when it's quiet and experiment until you can find a way of taking big scores out of that hole.

 

[cpeck]

move up a tee box for that hole to build confidence if they have a wide spread on them to be in prime position to get over the creek in one. the creek might be in the back of your head and is causing the disbelief that is making it harder. nothing wrong with 7 iron off the tee to an early bail out.

 

how far to the creek, or what’s the course name.

[Spooky67]

Thank all of you for the great posts and advice.

 

> @MountainGoat said:

> Ordinarily, I'd say that someone shooting 95-100 on a course rated 72.5/141 is playing from the wrong tees. But, the hole you're describing is beyond the ability of everyone I know. We had a hole like that at a club around here, but it was a par-5. Guys got in trouble because they couldn't bring themselves to hit an iron off the tee followed by a 150 yard layup. But, without a layup area, the hole you're describing is pretty close to impossible for an 18 handicap.

 

I get the wrong tee thing a lot when posting on boards, I understand based off my score, but I’m a decently long hitter and do pretty well with the driver. Holes where I’m driver then wedge I score well on, it’s really my iron play that kills my score. I’d agree with you that this hole is pretty much impossible for me, I’ve parred it once and rarely even get a bogey. A double is a really good score for me on this hole.

> @SixtySomePing said:

> There's some really good advice here Spooky. Use an iron off the tee for placement. Then your next shot again for placement. Don't think par for now. Course management in this case becomes hole management. This hole has become your nemesis simply because you have let it. From here you'll need to rethink your strategy, have a plan and execute it. Start out off the tee with a positive attitude and a vision of a successful completion of your plan. Anything is better than a quad. Don't think of the hole as brutal, use the same swings and approach to the game as you do on the other holes. Make sure your body doesn't tense up on this hole, let things flow freely, and play it a shot at a time. You get pars on other holes, you can eventually do it on this one, this is just a hole too. A bogey on this hole or even a double will be nothing to be ashamed of right a first but stick to it, and continue to adjust your plan based on results of the previous time you played it with a plan. The hole might appear brutal but it's not smart, that's where you can have the advantage.

 

I agree, great advice here. I use an iron a lot on this hole. The problem is the second/lay up shot, the landing area for the lay up is downhill in two directions, one OB and one in the creek.

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> Billy Casper won a US Open laying up on a long par 3 every day. I agree with the post above. Figure out a way to play it to make the best but realistic for you score possible.

 

Good advice, thank you.

> @Moxley said:

> Take the advice on playing for GIR +1 - this is fine for a 90s shooter on SI1 hole. I'd be surprised if there isn't a way to do this because what are the seniors meant to do?

>

> I have a similar hole on my course, and I play 4i followed by a layup followed by a pitch. I sometimes mess up the pitch and get a 6 but that's not terminal in a stroke play. I only attack the hole when playing stableford.

> Play when it's quiet and experiment until you can find a way of taking big scores out of that hole.

>

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I’m sure I could manage this hole better. If you lay up closer than about 180-200 you are hitting off a severe downhill lie. I’ve tried to do a few different things on this hole, but my best results have been with a 200ish fade off the tee and then another 200ish shot over the creek onto the green or fringe.

> @cpeck said:

> move up a tee box for that hole to build confidence if they have a wide spread on them to be in prime position to get over the creek in one. the creek might be in the back of your head and is causing the disbelief that is making it harder. nothing wrong with 7 iron off the tee to an early bail out.

>

> how far to the creek, or what’s the course name.

I think I’m going to try this. The blues and whites are usually stacked pretty close together in this hole but gaining confidence on the hole could only help. Thanks.

 

The course is Coweta Club at Arbor Springs Plantation Newnan GA 30265. Thanks again.

 

[MountainGoat]

I think I see the hole you’re talking about. I’m glad I don’t play that every day.

[third-times-a-charm]

Its all about the GIR

[Twism86]

Think about your second shot when you are on the tee. Do you need a 7i to hit the green, an 8i? What short iron do you hit the best (combo of distance and accuracy) and make your tee shot land in an area that lets you use THAT club to get to the green. Thinking backwards from the hole rather than forwards from the tee can help a lot in hole like that one. Work your way back to the tee box with clubs you hit consistently well.

 

That being said, I have not yet broke 90 on my home course. I have shot 90 once and 91 and 92 more than I like to admit. I too have that hole that always blows up the score and leaves you needing a miracle on #18. I have pared most holes at my home course (not on the same round of course) except the 2-3 that always elude me

[MPSgolfs]

Few days ago, I was +6, on 17th hole, 185 yard par 3. Pull 5 iron left of green. Pitch over bunker has too much heat and rolls to fringe on other side. Putting from the fringe, I hit grass first and punch it 12 feet, leaving myself a 6 footer. I miss it. Double bogey. Just lost focus for a hole. Par on 18 for an 80. Would have been my first time in 70s from the tips at a course with a 73+ course rating. Frustrating. Also had a double bogey on a par 3 on the front.

[BB28403]

Use a hybrid and learn how to hit it with a slight fade to 190-200 (on the fly). 2 shots and you are on the green. If you miss the green Lob it on close.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @Spooky67 said:

> My home course is 72.5/141. It’s tough but mostly fair IMO. I usually shoot 95-100. My goal has been to break 90 on this course. I usually start slow but today I played 9 and scored par, par, bogey, bogey, par, quad, bogey, bogey, bogey. The first six holes are pretty tough and the quad came on the toughest hole on the course. Ive never started that hot and felt like I was going to break through until #6. That hole is brutal and bogey is a good score but the quad killed my 9. Outside of that hole I played about as good as I’m capable of at the moment. Anyone else have a hole that haunts them or played a great round but had it killed by one misstep?

 

 

There's a nasty par 5 on a course I play regularly that I always treat with great caution. I've had a 10 there once (which included two OBs and three putts), and I've seen playing partners regularly take 10 or more. It's not long (500 yards from the white tees), but it is tricky, and the set up plays havoc with your aim.

This is the hole:

The white lines show OB. The pink line marks a massive depression in the fairway about 260 from the white tees. I'd estimate it's 30ft deep; anyway, you don't want to go in there because it's rough and your next shot will be completely blind.

The yellow lines show a slope up away from the fairway. Around the base of this slope or the cart path is actually your line off the tee, because if you go too far right, the trees on the right side block your second shot. I've seen lots of players try to clear these trees only to end up in them. As the slope blocks the open space beyond it on the left, many players aim too far right, which makes problems for their second shot.

I usually hit a 4w off the tee to make sure I don't go in the massive depression.

The next hurdle is your second shot. The risk of going for the green is massive. The OB on the right actually sticks more out than you can see (I don't think I've drawn it quite correctly). If you miss left and don't go in the green side bunker, your ball will roll down a slope, on to the cart path and out of bounds. The best--really, only option--is to lay up, but you have to get your line right. The fairway bunker on the right collects a lot of balls, as people seem to aim too far right. Also, it's better to lay-up conservatively than try to get too close, because a longer club will bring the OB on the right into play. Finally, a good lay-up should leave anything from 80-100 yards in. The final caution is the green. It slopes massively down from the back left to the right front. Put too much spin on your pitch, and the ball can roll back 30ft. Hit too aggressively and with not enough spin, and you leave yourself a tough, slippery downhill putt. Three-putts are common on this green.

It's not the hardest hole I've played, but it probably the one that requires the most conservative shot selection for every shot.

 

 

 

[James the Hogan Fan]

> @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> > @Spooky67 said:

> > My home course is 72.5/141. It’s tough but mostly fair IMO. I usually shoot 95-100. My goal has been to break 90 on this course. I usually start slow but today I played 9 and scored par, par, bogey, bogey, par, quad, bogey, bogey, bogey. The first six holes are pretty tough and the quad came on the toughest hole on the course. Ive never started that hot and felt like I was going to break through until #6. That hole is brutal and bogey is a good score but the quad killed my 9. Outside of that hole I played about as good as I’m capable of at the moment. Anyone else have a hole that haunts them or played a great round but had it killed by one misstep?

>

>

> There's a nasty par 5 on a course I play regularly that I always treat with great caution. I've had a 10 there once (which included two OBs and three putts), and I've seen playing partners regularly take 10 or more. It's not long (500 yards from the white tees), but it is tricky, and the set up plays havoc with your aim.

> This is the hole:

>

> The white lines show OB. The pink line marks a massive depression in the fairway about 260 from the white tees. I'd estimate it's 30ft deep; anyway, you don't want to go in there because it's rough and your next shot will be completely blind.

> The yellow lines show a slope up away from the fairway. Around the base of this slope or the cart path is actually your line off the tee, because if you go too far right, the trees on the right side block your second shot. I've seen lots of players try to clear these trees only to end up in them. As the slope blocks the open space beyond it on the left, many players aim too far right, which makes problems for their second shot.

> I usually hit a 4w off the tee to make sure I don't go in the massive depression.

> The next hurdle is your second shot. The risk of going for the green is massive. The OB on the right actually sticks more out than you can see (I don't think I've drawn it quite correctly). If you miss left and don't go in the green side bunker, your ball will roll down a slope, on to the cart path and out of bounds. The best--really, only option--is to lay up, but you have to get your line right. The fairway bunker on the right collects a lot of balls, as people seem to aim too far right. Also, it's better to lay-up conservatively than try to get too close, because a longer club will bring the OB on the right into play. Finally, a good lay-up should leave anything from 80-100 yards in. The final caution is the green. It slopes massively down from the back left to the right front. Put too much spin on your pitch, and the ball can roll back 30ft. Hit too aggressively and with not enough spin, and you leave yourself a tough, slippery downhill putt. Three-putts are common on this green.

> It's not the hardest hole I've played, but it probably the one that requires the most conservative shot selection for every shot.

>

>

>

 

That hole looks like a bear. I think it’s particularly brutal to put OB in that fashion. Is there a reason the forest is out of bounds?

 

Although I think we’ve had a discussion in another thread about in-course ob and how Japanese courses ring the hole with OB. Either way I feel the presence of arbitrary (to me) boundaries make the hole harder than what is actually presented by the design of the hole.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > My home course is 72.5/141. It’s tough but mostly fair IMO. I usually shoot 95-100. My goal has been to break 90 on this course. I usually start slow but today I played 9 and scored par, par, bogey, bogey, par, quad, bogey, bogey, bogey. The first six holes are pretty tough and the quad came on the toughest hole on the course. Ive never started that hot and felt like I was going to break through until #6. That hole is brutal and bogey is a good score but the quad killed my 9. Outside of that hole I played about as good as I’m capable of at the moment. Anyone else have a hole that haunts them or played a great round but had it killed by one misstep?

> >

> >

> > There's a nasty par 5 on a course I play regularly that I always treat with great caution. I've had a 10 there once (which included two OBs and three putts), and I've seen playing partners regularly take 10 or more. It's not long (500 yards from the white tees), but it is tricky, and the set up plays havoc with your aim.

> > This is the hole:

> >

> > The white lines show OB. The pink line marks a massive depression in the fairway about 260 from the white tees. I'd estimate it's 30ft deep; anyway, you don't want to go in there because it's rough and your next shot will be completely blind.

> > The yellow lines show a slope up away from the fairway. Around the base of this slope or the cart path is actually your line off the tee, because if you go too far right, the trees on the right side block your second shot. I've seen lots of players try to clear these trees only to end up in them. As the slope blocks the open space beyond it on the left, many players aim too far right, which makes problems for their second shot.

> > I usually hit a 4w off the tee to make sure I don't go in the massive depression.

> > The next hurdle is your second shot. The risk of going for the green is massive. The OB on the right actually sticks more out than you can see (I don't think I've drawn it quite correctly). If you miss left and don't go in the green side bunker, your ball will roll down a slope, on to the cart path and out of bounds. The best--really, only option--is to lay up, but you have to get your line right. The fairway bunker on the right collects a lot of balls, as people seem to aim too far right. Also, it's better to lay-up conservatively than try to get too close, because a longer club will bring the OB on the right into play. Finally, a good lay-up should leave anything from 80-100 yards in. The final caution is the green. It slopes massively down from the back left to the right front. Put too much spin on your pitch, and the ball can roll back 30ft. Hit too aggressively and with not enough spin, and you leave yourself a tough, slippery downhill putt. Three-putts are common on this green.

> > It's not the hardest hole I've played, but it probably the one that requires the most conservative shot selection for every shot.

> >

> >

> >

>

> That hole looks like a bear. I think it’s particularly brutal to put OB in that fashion. Is there a reason the forest is out of bounds?

>

> Although I think we’ve had a discussion in another thread about in-course ob and how Japanese courses ring the hole with OB. Either way I feel the presence of arbitrary (to me) boundaries make the hole harder than what is actually presented by the design of the hole.

 

I think you're right; we may have had this discussion before in a different thread. No worries.

I think there are two main reasons why many Japanese courses make these forests OB: one is pace of play, and the other is safety.

The forests really are thick, and not just trees, but lots of vegetation lower down, so to cut down search time, the course just says, "right, it's OB, hit again." Also, most courses around me have a special tee set up further down the fairway for people who have hit their tee-shot OB. They can tee it up and hit from the special tees and they're playing 4. Sometimes, these tees are less than 200 yards from the proper tees (in which case, you've nothing to gain by playing your 4th shot them); sometimes, they are over 300 yards down the fairway, and playing from them gives you an advantage.

As for the safety aspect, well many Japanese courses were carved out of steep mountains. Miss the fairway and rough, and you might well find yourself in the forest on a severe slope (like 40%+ gradient). And there might be the odd poisonous snake in there for good measure. So to keep people from taking a nasty fall, they declare the forests OB.

I will say that the course from which that screenshot is taken removed a lot of their in-course OB markers a couple of years ago, making it much more fun to play. I'd say it's one of the most interesting tracks around me, and while the hole I showed is certainly difficult, I don't think it's "unfair". It just needs to be played cautiously. It's a par 5 where 5 is a good score.

[Spooky67]

Looks like all of the advice helped me out a ton. Of course I think I had a little luck too but I’ll take it. Carded a 41 on 9 today. Best score ever on this course’s front 9. I wound up bogeying the dreaded #6. After reading all of the advice in this thread I decided to try to play the ball as close to the creek as I could, making the second shot much more manageable. I wound up putting the ball in the creek on the roll but that let me drop and then play a wedge for my second shot which made bogey a possibility. Not having a full on disaster on that hole helped my score tremendously. Thanks to all that gave advice!!

[tas6691]

> @Spooky67 said:

 

> I think I’m going to try this. The blues and whites are usually stacked pretty close together in this hole but gaining confidence on the hole could only help. Thanks.

>

> The course is Coweta Club at Arbor Springs Plantation Newnan GA 30265. Thanks again.

>

 

I know this course pretty well and #6 is brutal. I play a 5 wood off the tee and try and stay up in the corner where the cart path turns, its flat there. The a long iron or a 7 or 5 wood to get across the creek. If I'm not swinging well I hit a short iron to near the creek and then a wedge or 9 iron to the green. From there I try to put close and another putt for a 5 and get the heck outta there!!

 

That course is very hilly with a lot of elevation change, and its a bit of a long course. I love it but dont want to play it more than once every 4 to 6 weeks because if I'm not swinging well its brutal. Breaking 90 there for me is tough so I understand your frustration! Try Morgan Dairy south of Griffin for just a fun day on a great links style course.

 

 

[Spooky67]

All the advice helped again. Today my tee shot on #6 was right down the middle and left me 174yds in. When I get to my ball I see a twosome on the other side of the creek looking for a ball. They waive me through...yikes. Now I’ve got a 174yd shot off a downhill lie over a creek on the hardest hole on the course with an audience. I pull a 5i instead of a 6 as the green is a little elevated and the downhill lie gives me trouble. So I take my shot and see it bounce on the green....I drive by the group that let me play through, thank them and wave thinking it’s all good.

 

When I get to the green the pin is at the back and I see a ball on the green against the collar, I walk up to putt and realize it’s not my ball. I look around and see my ball about 20ft behind the green in a rocky/sandy patch. I grab a wedge and head back to my ball. When I set up to chip I see that the guys that let me through have continued to play and are now standing on the green looking at me. I had a haggard lie, my short game is not my strong suit, the pin is in the back and I had no green to work with, the green slopes away with a huge drop off at the front and not again I have an audience.

 

Somehow I chip it super close for a tap in par. This hole seems a little bit tamer after all the advice and a bogey last week and a par this week. Thanks everyone!

[IamMarkMac]

> @Spooky67 said:

> > @RickKimbrell said:

> > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

>

> The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

>

 

Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

[Spooky67]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Spooky67 said:

> > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

> >

> > The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

> >

>

> Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

 

It can help, but it’s super steep, usually if you catch the slope off the tee you are either OB or in the creek. If you get lucky you’ll stop before the creek, but you have to play a draw to get in that spot so it’s tough. The true play is a 200-220yd shot to a very small landing area, come in high drop and stop. Any 180-200yd+ that’s low and hot is gone. It can be played well for sure but it’s tough AF.

[IamMarkMac]

> @Spooky67 said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

> > >

> > > The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

> > >

> >

> > Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

>

> It can help, but it’s super steep, usually if you catch the slope off the tee you are either OB or in the creek. If you get lucky you’ll stop before the creek, but you have to play a draw to get in that spot so it’s tough. The true play is a 200-220yd shot to a very small landing area, come in high drop and stop. Any 180-200yd+ that’s low and hot is gone. It can be played well for sure but it’s tough AF.

 

Yeah, that's an odd hole for sure. Typically a hole will have some way of getting to 160y from the flag, at worst and there are usually risk/reward scenarios that will get you closer. Is the problem just because of a lack of length (as in there is an opening say, 240-250 from the tee)? Or are long hitters shackled too?

[Spooky67]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Spooky67 said:

> > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > > > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

> > > >

> > > > The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

> >

> > It can help, but it’s super steep, usually if you catch the slope off the tee you are either OB or in the creek. If you get lucky you’ll stop before the creek, but you have to play a draw to get in that spot so it’s tough. The true play is a 200-220yd shot to a very small landing area, come in high drop and stop. Any 180-200yd+ that’s low and hot is gone. It can be played well for sure but it’s tough AF.

>

> Yeah, that's an odd hole for sure. Typically a hole will have some way of getting to 160y from the flag, at worst and there are usually risk/reward scenarios that will get you closer. Is the problem just because of a lack of length (as in there is an opening say, 240-250 from the tee)? Or are long hitters shackled too?

 

Length has nothing to do with this hole. It requires a precise tee shot and then a long second. If you have that then you’re good.

[IamMarkMac]

> @Spooky67 said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > > > > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

> > > > >

> > > > > The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

> > >

> > > It can help, but it’s super steep, usually if you catch the slope off the tee you are either OB or in the creek. If you get lucky you’ll stop before the creek, but you have to play a draw to get in that spot so it’s tough. The true play is a 200-220yd shot to a very small landing area, come in high drop and stop. Any 180-200yd+ that’s low and hot is gone. It can be played well for sure but it’s tough AF.

> >

> > Yeah, that's an odd hole for sure. Typically a hole will have some way of getting to 160y from the flag, at worst and there are usually risk/reward scenarios that will get you closer. Is the problem just because of a lack of length (as in there is an opening say, 240-250 from the tee)? Or are long hitters shackled too?

>

> Length has nothing to do with this hole. It requires a precise tee shot and then a long second. If you have that then you’re good.

 

Ok. Yeah well that's what I mean. That's a forced long second shot and I don't see too many of those. I'm actually against those on principle.

[Spooky67]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Spooky67 said:

> > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > > > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > > > > > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

> > > >

> > > > It can help, but it’s super steep, usually if you catch the slope off the tee you are either OB or in the creek. If you get lucky you’ll stop before the creek, but you have to play a draw to get in that spot so it’s tough. The true play is a 200-220yd shot to a very small landing area, come in high drop and stop. Any 180-200yd+ that’s low and hot is gone. It can be played well for sure but it’s tough AF.

> > >

> > > Yeah, that's an odd hole for sure. Typically a hole will have some way of getting to 160y from the flag, at worst and there are usually risk/reward scenarios that will get you closer. Is the problem just because of a lack of length (as in there is an opening say, 240-250 from the tee)? Or are long hitters shackled too?

> >

> > Length has nothing to do with this hole. It requires a precise tee shot and then a long second. If you have that then you’re good.

>

> Ok. Yeah well that's what I mean. That's a forced long second shot and I don't see too many of those. I'm actually against those on principle.

 

Got it! Didn’t understand at first but yes, EVERYONE gets it bad on this hole, both shorter and longer hitters. If you are playing this hole as the architects intended it is a forced long second. I had 175ish in this weekend and parred the hole, the last time I parred this hole I had 200 or so in, that being said I currently don’t have the skill needed to be super consistent with that type of shot.

 

[IamMarkMac]

> @Spooky67 said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > > > > @Spooky67 said:

> > > > > > > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > > > > > > Well, you don't tell us about the hole itself that is causing you grief. First of all, break the hole down...if it is a par 4, give yourself 3 shots to get on the green. If it is a par 5, 4 shots to get on the green. Hit the safest club you got (could be 7 iron) off the tee, hit another safe club. Hit to distances you like. Then knock it on the green, 2 putt (maybe 1 putt) walk away with bogey. Problem solved. Once you get confident that you can walk away with no worse than bogey, start attacking the hole to make par or birdie. Course management, course management, course management. Play to make no worse than bogey.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The hole in question is a 421yd par 4. Hard dogleg left with a creek carry. Trees prohibit carrying the creek off the tee and the fairway slopes downhill from the tee. Too short or too long ioff the tee means extra strokes for sure. Not only is it downhill off the tee running to the cartpath and OB, but if you draw it off the corner there is another downhill to the creek. You need a 200yd tee shot with a slight fade, setting you up for antother 200yd shot to the green, elevated and surrounded by low bunkers...it’s a nightmare hole.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can the slope help off the tee? There's a dogleg left 420 I play with pin below tee where I try to land a slope with a 220y shot and it gets me plenty of roll, right up to a creek with about 140y left. People who aren't familiar with the course will usually try to go straight down the fairway which has less slope and a pretty good chance of running through the dogleg.

> > > > >

> > > > > It can help, but it’s super steep, usually if you catch the slope off the tee you are either OB or in the creek. If you get lucky you’ll stop before the creek, but you have to play a draw to get in that spot so it’s tough. The true play is a 200-220yd shot to a very small landing area, come in high drop and stop. Any 180-200yd+ that’s low and hot is gone. It can be played well for sure but it’s tough AF.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, that's an odd hole for sure. Typically a hole will have some way of getting to 160y from the flag, at worst and there are usually risk/reward scenarios that will get you closer. Is the problem just because of a lack of length (as in there is an opening say, 240-250 from the tee)? Or are long hitters shackled too?

> > >

> > > Length has nothing to do with this hole. It requires a precise tee shot and then a long second. If you have that then you’re good.

> >

> > Ok. Yeah well that's what I mean. That's a forced long second shot and I don't see too many of those. I'm actually against those on principle.

>

> Got it! Didn’t understand at first but yes, EVERYONE gets it bad on this hole, both shorter and longer hitters. If you are playing this hole as the architects intended it is a forced long second. I had 175ish in this weekend and parred the hole, the last time I parred this hole I had 200 or so in, that being said I currently don’t have the skill needed to be super consistent with that type of shot.

>

 

Well I wouldn't sweat that too much. It's just basically an unfair hole. I wouldn't mind if the fairway tightened up past 220y but forcing your tee shot to go no further? Not cool.