Why No Sight Line? Why Sight Line?

[RainShadow]

I truly prefer a site oval, on top of my putter, TP Mills style.

Don’t necessarily like site line on the flange, but if there must be one, it needs to be on the top line.

I don’t have a problem with out any alignment aids at all. (SC Newport )

All that said, my current BB1 has a like on the flange. It doesn’t distract me, but I’d prefer that it wasn’t there......

[Jaygolf37]

I’ve used both...and putted well with either style. But this current run with a Spider Black has been incredible. The no sight line thing was way weird at first, but then something clicked. And now, it’s actually EASIER to square up at address. I visualize my line through the ball (no line on ball either)...and focus on that contact point. No BS...I’ve never been more confident in my putting than I am right now. As others have said, my eyes are drawn to the alignment lines on putters. The absence of those lines keeps my focus on the ball. Great topic, btw.

[A.Princey]

I don't understand why folks don't use a line on the ball, it's clearly the biggest advantage in putting since the obsolenscence of the "Calamity Jane" style chipper/putter. I completely understand if it looks cluttered or bothersome in the aesthetic sense, however, what's baffling to me is how people can aim that line perfectly from behind the ball, yet adjust for something different at address rather than simply hitting the ball as they just aimed it. "I just don't like the way that thing is sitting, it cannot be aimed correctly, I've decided to make a small adjustment and hit it slightly different....". Mind boggling... Hit the line, make the putt, repeat. Simple.

 

Edit: I guess that's assuming they can hit the ball on a line in the first place.

[North Butte]

Short answer: It's a distraction from the task of putting a good roll on the ball while visualizing the entire path of the putt, holistically.

 

I don't need anything that encourages me to steer the putter or manipulate the clubface. Whether lines on the ball or lines on the top of the putter, the visual indication is that the goal is to aim those lines "just right" and then keep everything "just right" during the stroke.

 

If I can't make a freely swinging stroke with the putter, I've got no chance of getting either a good roll or the proper pace. I orient myself toward the entire (usually curving) line from the hole to the ball and then let the putter swing back and through while concentrating on the feel of the stroke. In fact, my eyes are not even focused on the ball or putter during the stroke, I sort of defocus my eyes and concentrate on my mental image of the ball rolling to the hole.

 

For me, so-called alignment aids are at best a distraction and at worse cause tension and over-controlling. They are best IMHO for people whose goal in putting is to not make any mistakes, at the expense of making the best possible stroke and having the best possible feel for both line and distance. It's kind of like the whole "fell in love with the line and forgot to hit it" quip when we leave a putt three eet short after getting the read perfect.

[towncryer]

I've been told that human eye just has a preference between things that look wider or narrower. Lines perpendicular to the face make a putter appear wider. A lack of lines makes the putter look narrower.

 

I like a site dot on the top line the best, second best would be nothing at all. So, my eye just likes the look of narrower. Also, I think when I putt with a putter with a sight line, I get too focused on the line of the putt. I'd rather focus on speed, so I think the lack of that line frees me up mentally to lock into speed. I use the alignment line on my ball to get line set before I address the ball.

 

[braincramp52]

I absolutely suck with no sight line. One long single line like the one on my Ketsch has done more to lower my scores than any driver or iron set I've ever owned.

[msd71]

Does anyone know what percentage of pros use a line on the ball? Seems like near 100%...

[EmperorPenguin]

I know that Tiger's putter has no sight line on it. He has a small dot to indicate the sweet spot. Makes sense, but I still prefer a sight line.

[Jaygolf37]

> @"A.Princey" said:

> I don't understand why folks don't use a line on the ball, it's clearly the biggest advantage in putting since the obsolenscence of the "Calamity Jane" style chipper/putter. I completely understand if it looks cluttered or bothersome in the aesthetic sense, however, what's baffling to me is how people can aim that line perfectly from behind the ball, yet adjust for something different at address rather than simply hitting the ball as they just aimed it. "I just don't like the way that thing is sitting, it cannot be aimed correctly, I've decided to make a small adjustment and hit it slightly different....". Mind boggling... Hit the line, make the putt, repeat. Simple.

>

> Edit: I guess that's assuming they can hit the ball on a line in the first place.

 

As I said, I’ve done both. And I’ve done well with both. Personally, I find that my speed control is better without the line. I don’t struggle with finding the line, or hitting to a spot. It is almost always speed. The ? has been amazing for speed/distance control.

 

Tell you what, I will put a dot on the putter and try it out. I’ll let you all know soon.

 

 

[granata10]

I have never tried a putter without a sight line. I have learned I need the sight line / alignment aid be on top of the club not on the flange. Right now I am using Spider Tour X copper and before that it was a Ping Nome that i used for years. If the line is in the flange the slight interruption of the face bothers me. I like the line to be right up to the ball.

 

That being said, I can’t stand the line on the ball. I never trust it when I am over it. When I put my ball down to putt I make sure I can see nothing.

[driveandputtmachine]

Lane indication.

davep043 - sightlines and the shape of the putter and the hosel or shaft connection configuration all determine how well each individual can aim. I had two "clamps" that I would attach to a putter that had small lasers attached, and then would have the person aim the putter at the hole. Have them not move and place a board behind the hole and see where they were aiming the putter. My brain has switched over the years. I used to be only able to aim a plumber's neck with any consistency and I used the bumpers as my center guideline. Now as I have gotten older I have discovered I line up a mid-slant neck hosel better, but I have also discovered because of declining vision, that I need a mallet head with a long wide center alignment guide to align the putter face correctly. I still prefer the shape of a anser style, but I cannot consistently line that style up. In the end better putting stats made me like mallets with a mid-slant type hosel the best.

 

> @davep043 said:

> I agree, center indication, but no lines.

>

>

>

> However, I know a fitter for Edel putters. They test a significant variety of sight line possibilities to find the one that the player can line up best. Apparently our brains don't all work the same way, and probably the only way to learn what's best is to try them all. I'm not advertising Edel, and I haven't been fitted, but that's the Edel claim.

 

 

[driveandputtmachine]

> @benno_r said:

> Sight Line.

>

>

>

> Did the Edel fitting with my 2 ball, what my eyes said were straight was about 3 cups right. Fitted to a slightly wider blade, top line, and 1.5 shaft offset seems to work for me. Much easier to stand over the ball and line up now - most times I am hitting the line I want (Green reading or speed control is another story).

>

>

>

> Bought putters with sight dots, flange lines, and no lines - I don't feel comfortable over the ball as I am always second guessing my aim.

 

Stick with what you can aim and over time your brain will adjust to read the break and distance better. This happens a lot more than you think. Year after year after year of incorrect alignment leads to .....poor path, poor strikes and your brain cannot figure out how to judge. As your path improves and your strikes improve your brain will adjust and it will get better.

[gunmetal]

> @msd71 said:

> Does anyone know what percentage of pros use a line on the ball? Seems like near 100%...

 

It probably is 100%. It's a no-brainer. You could make the case it's as much advantage as anchoring was/is.

 

My take on the sight line topic is that they are dang near useless on long putts and probably do more harm than good. When you're sitting over a 50' putt, should you really be focusing on which blade of grass you're going to aim your putter? I would say you should stand or squat behind the ball and get the general direction and focus everything on speed. Speed is everything. Wasting time with sight lines and such seems counterproductive, especially to pace of play. Most PGA tour players will tell you they're not trying to make a 35 footer, rather they're trying to get it close and if it goes in, it's a bonus. HOWEVER, I sing a different song when you get inside 15'. Inside of 15' a sight line, particularly on the top line and not the flange, can be extremely helpful (think TM Juno, Odyssey Rossie style). Combine this with a line on the ball and you can actually aim for a blade of grass. Too bad they can't make a putter that had a disappearing and reappearing sight line.

 

The two ball (without the line) and the Spider Tour without the lines are probably the closest things that meet this description. They don't have any specific lines that would have you fussing around on long putts but they do assist you with general direction and inside of 15' you can use their natural design cues and lines to line up. My thoughts.

[North Butte]

> > @msd71 said:

> > Does anyone know what percentage of pros use a line on the ball? Seems like near 100%...

>

> It probably is 100%. It's a no-brainer. You could make the case it's as much advantage as anchoring was/is.

I think it is *exactly* as much an advantage as anchoring.

 

Anchoring is a huge benefit for someone who has yippy hands or bad nerves. But anchoring is a worse way to putt for someone without the yips. It takes an awful lot of practice to develop good touch and feel on long putts with an anchored broomstick.

 

A line of the ball helps someone who simply can not (or believes he can not) start the ball on the correct line on short putts. But it is a distraction and interferes (mentally) with touch and feel on longer putts, as you mentioned.

 

Both are basically band-aids for golfers suffering putting difficulties the nearer they get to the hole. But neither is a clear advantage for normal golfers. I know among the guys I play with or get paired up with the percentage doing the alignment-line thing was well over 50% a couple years ago. Now it's usually about one guy per foursome, on average. They mostly seemed to get tired of doing it after a while once the placebo effect wore off.

 

The line on the ball thing is a fad that may become less popular on Tour in future. Or maybe not, today's Tour players are the most fidgety, superstitious, procrastinating bunch of nervous wrecks you'd ever want to see. They apparently need all the safety blankets they can get.

[gunmetal]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > > @msd71 said:

> > > Does anyone know what percentage of pros use a line on the ball? Seems like near 100%...

> >

> > It probably is 100%. It's a no-brainer. You could make the case it's as much advantage as anchoring was/is.

> I think it is *exactly* as much an advantage as anchoring.

>

> Anchoring is a huge benefit for someone who has yippy hands or bad nerves. But anchoring is a worse way to putt for someone without the yips. It takes an awful lot of practice to develop good touch and feel on long putts with an anchored broomstick.

>

> A line of the ball helps someone who simply can not (or believes he can not) start the ball on the correct line on short putts. But it is a distraction and interferes (mentally) with touch and feel on longer putts, as you mentioned.

>

> Both are basically band-aids for golfers suffering putting difficulties the nearer they get to the hole. But neither is a clear advantage for normal golfers. I know among the guys I play with or get paired up with the percentage doing the alignment-line thing was well over 50% a couple years ago. Now it's usually about one guy per foursome, on average. They mostly seemed to get tired of doing it after a while once the placebo effect wore off.

>

> The line on the ball thing is a fad that may become less popular on Tour in future. Or maybe not,** today's Tour players are the most fidgety, superstitious, procrastinating bunch of nervous wrecks you'd ever want to see. They apparently need all the safety blankets they can get.**

 

Agreed. Although they would tell you it's for millions of dollars so they'll take as long as they want :D

Plus with Callaway's introduction of Triple Track "Technology, I don't think this is going away anytime soon.

[EmperorPenguin]

> @"North Butte" said:

> A line of the ball helps someone who simply can not (or believes he can not) start the ball on the correct line on short putts. But it is a distraction and interferes (mentally) with touch and feel on longer putts, as you mentioned.

 

I thought that the line on the ball is a simple alignment trick. I see countless golfers including tour pros use this tactic, and I use it myself on the golf course with better results than if I did not line up the ball. For one, when you line up the ball to your intended line and once you are over the ball setting up to the putt, regardless of what your feet feel and if you have any doubt over the ball while standing on a slope, you know with absolute certainty that you are squared up to your intended line. Once you pull the trigger, all you think about is the correct distance to stroke the ball. A second reason of lining up the ball is to check, while the ball is rolling away from your putter after impact, if the ball has an end-over-end roll, and that means a perfectly square strike, which is what we are all trying to do.

 

I heard Mark O'Meara lines up the ball so he only sees the whole white ball below him. I guess this works for him. I saw him putt with an Anser-style putter with a sight line, so I guess he aims the putter face with that sight line. My contention is that from ten to twenty-five feet it is possible to aim more precisely because you have lined the ball up.

 

[North Butte]

I've used a ball with a line on it to check my roll for ages. But for me that's just a practice technique.

 

I also, like O'Meara, prefer to just have the blank side of the ball facing up. But it doesn't matter much. After my last look at the hole, when my gaze returns to straight down I try not to focus on the ball at all. It's my version of the technique called the "Quiet Eye". I don't want to see anything that interferes with my mental image of the ball rolling to the hole on my intended path.

[Jaygolf37]

OK. Experiment completed. I used my Spider Black Tour in three “modes” and on three different days. I took the time of the practice green to get a feel for the putter, etc before hitting 20 putts and taking notes. Putts were 5 10-footers, 10 15-footers, and 5 30-footers.

 

One was stock, no sight markings at all. Two was a small white sticker dot at the sweet spot. And three was a long white line down the middle.

 

I putt with no sight line or dot...and the reason I use this putter instead of all others is it is so easy to square, and I feel that I have very good distance control with it. I have never made so many putts from outside of 12ft before. I play to a 4 handicap. Here are my notes:

 

Stock — 4/5 made from 10ft with one push, 7/10 from 15ft with 1 slight push, one slight pull and one a bit long. 1/5 (the last putt taken) from 30ft. All ended up within 3ft-ish of the hole.

 

Sight Dot — 4/5 made from 10ft with one pulled left and long. 5/10 from 15ft with 4 long lefts and one just short of the cup. 0/5 from 30 feet with 3 long lefts to about 3-5ft, one terribly short, and one push to about 2ft.

 

Sight Line — 2/5 made from 10ft with both misses short and right (the balls tapped each other), 1/10 from 15ft (1st putt hit) with 4 short pushes, two over-corrections and pulled short, and two lip outs. 0/5 from 30 ft with 4 short pushes (ranging from 4-7ft), and 1 huge pull long and left.

 

Obviously, I was more comfortable with the stock Spider setup, but I found it interesting that I tended to push most putts with the sight line. And the Dot setup led to some pulls, albeit not as severe as the line. With the dot, I didn’t necessarily take my eyes off the ball. But I did find it a bit distracting as I swung through Impact. The line on the putter made me feel like I had to hold that line...if that makes any sense. I don’t think I released the putter face as well...which probably led to the poor distance control and pushes.

 

Took me a whole practice session to get back to feeling comfortable with the blank top-line on my putter...LOL

 

This all may mean nothing, but I’d said I would give it a test. So I did. I’d be happy to answer any questions you all might have too.

[EmperorPenguin]

My question is this: for each putt, did you line the ball up?

[Jaygolf37]

> @EmperorPenguin said:

> My question is this: for each putt, did you line the ball up?

 

I did. Went through my full routine before each putt.

 

 

[bspn]

No sight line. I would describe my putting style as more feel-based than technical, so a sight line just distracts me

[EmperorPenguin]

> @Jaygolf37 said:

> > @EmperorPenguin said:

> > My question is this: for each putt, did you line the ball up?

>

> I did. Went through my full routine before each putt.

That is quite surprising. I have always believed it is harder to start it on line without a sight line, but your experiment indicates otherwise. I guess that the missed putts with the sight line were caused by distractions when you saw the sight line going back and through? For me, with my Anser 3 putter, I use the sight line simply to set the ball on the sweet spot, and to make sure that the sight line is perfectly in line with the line on the ball at address. Once I pull the trigger and take it back, I pay no attention to the sight line going back and all I concentrate on is how hard to hit the putt. If the sight line may veer off line going back, hit it anyway.

 

I saw a Golf Digest report on YouTube and it concluded that for a 10' putt, assuming correct speed, the difference between making and missing is half a degree. My argument for the sight line is that for the makeable putt, a sight line aids in the aiming accuracy to within that half-degree. I reckon that it is easier to spot a deviation of, say, 3/4 of one degree with a sight line than without.

 

I do understand, so far, that the reason behind no sight line would be better distance control, but better alignment?

[JAMH03]

> @EmperorPenguin said:

> For some golfers, they want their putters with no sight line. I know the reasons vary, and it may all come down to preference, but please help me understand what is going on in your brains when you see a sight line, or why you prefer no sight line. Before you answer, please initiate your thread with either "Sight line" or "No sight line." I will start with my own answer.

>

>

>

> Sight line.

>

>

>

> I have always preferred a sight line. All my putters have sight lines. First of all, it is so easy to line up the ball with the sight line. On the green I look at the line of putt from both sides and determine how much borrow I need, pick out a spot, line up the stripe of the ball to that spot. Of course I can square up the face to the ball by setting the top line square to the stripe, but with the sight line it is even easier to set the clubface square at address. My Kevin Burns putters have two sight lines that together make it even easier to square up, and that if I am a fraction of a degree open or shut I will know immediately; the same applies with even a single sight line. With no sight line I still can square it up, but I feel that if I am a half a degree off I might not tell. An even better advantage of having a sight line is lining up the ball if it rests on the fringe. By Rule you are not allowed to lift your ball until it gets on the green, so lining up such a ball without a sight line may be more difficult.

>

>

>

> Now I am not saying here that having a sight line is better or worse than having no sight line, but for those of you who prefer no sight lines I want to know why you feel that way. Tiger Woods, for example, has no sight lines in his putters; he just has a dot on the top line to indicate the sweet spot. Jack Nicklaus, on the other hand, prefers two sight lines on his putter to help square it up. I recall that when Nick Faldo won his first Masters he changed putters after the first round because the putter he used for that round had no sight line and he had alignment problems; he switched to a putter with a sight line and the rest is history. When Retief Goosen won the 2001 US Open he used a Pro Gear C-Groove Swashbuckler putter which he specifically ordered with no sight line.

>

>

>

> The only thing I can think of as to why the absence of a sight line may be beneficial is that maybe it is one less last-second distraction in your mind in case you did not take the putter head straight back. This is mere conjecture on my part because I have never had a putter without a sight line. For those of you who do, please help me understand why you prefer no sight line.

 

Sight line.

 

The problem with the no sight line arguments are that they are using tacit examples, science doesn't support it, and when they really want to hit a target that matters they use sight lines.

 

 

[jsn]

I'm a no sight line guy. I line up the marks on my ball from behind then walk up and try to hit the putt straight along those lines. I find when I have a sight line I have a tendency to look at the hole after I take my stance and adjust where I am aimed. Never leads to good things.

[ani5009]

Sight line and a line on the ball. It helps me see the spot I've picked out to start the balls and it helps me try to get the ball rolling end over end right on that start line. My stance while putting isn't perfectly square but its what is comfortable for me, so I like to get the ball going on the line without worrying about if my shoulders, hips and feet are perfectly in line. I've had quite a bit of success with this method so I don't expect to change it any time soon. I don't putt well with putters that have a dot or nothing at all, I just feel lost on the green and don't really know where the ball is going to start

[Jaygolf37]

> @EmperorPenguin said:

> > @Jaygolf37 said:

> > > @EmperorPenguin said:

> > > My question is this: for each putt, did you line the ball up?

> >

> > I did. Went through my full routine before each putt.

> That is quite surprising. I have always believed it is harder to start it on line without a sight line, but your experiment indicates otherwise. I guess that the missed putts with the sight line were caused by distractions when you saw the sight line going back and through? For me, with my Anser 3 putter, I use the sight line simply to set the ball on the sweet spot, and to make sure that the sight line is perfectly in line with the line on the ball at address. Once I pull the trigger and take it back, I pay no attention to the sight line going back and all I concentrate on is how hard to hit the putt. If the sight line may veer off line going back, hit it anyway.

>

> I saw a Golf Digest report on YouTube and it concluded that for a 10' putt, assuming correct speed, the difference between making and missing is half a degree. My argument for the sight line is that for the makeable putt, a sight line aids in the aiming accuracy to within that half-degree. I reckon that it is easier to spot a deviation of, say, 3/4 of one degree with a sight line than without.

>

> I do understand, so far, that the reason behind no sight line would be better distance control, but better alignment?

 

I use an intermediate target 12 inches in front of the ball. I then draw an imaginary line through the ball to the spot on the back where I will strike it. The Spider is very easy to set up to that spot squarely. One last look at the hole, and I concentrate on hitting that spot on the ball.

 

I believe it is very similar to a line drawn on the ball.

 

[Jack Pearsall]

His doesn’t have one. Kinda think a site makes putt judgements immediate and that can undermine future aspects of the putting process more than it should. Plus everyone knows you don’t need site to see.

 

[mogc60]

Either, neither, some, none...but I prefer some sort of sweet spot mark. Line, dot..something. I prefer the ball blank...nothing showing but white and I line the face toward my aiming point. I do however intentionally line up the ball a dimple towards the toe for right to left putts and a dimple toward the heel for left to right putts. I’ve found in years of practice that this helps me to visually the path of the stroke better on breaking putts. I’m not really that off center but it gives me a strong visual of starting it left or right of the hole. I’ve always been a very strong putter and I haven’t altered my basic routine in 20 years. The lines and alignment aids and such I’ve never focused much on. For me it’s the face and the intended line. Then it’s just ready, aim, fire and let my touch take over. The less perfect I try to be the better I putt. My eyes move, my head moves, my hands break back and through...it’s all feel. If I feel somethings gotten too loose I tighten it up again.

But that works for me.

We all see things differently and look at different things in alignment and during the stroke. I’ve just found I “T” the face to my line better than continueing a line on the putter to that line. I’ve had putters with three lines or no lines and i don’t really focus on it at all.

[EmperorPenguin]

> @mogc60 said: The lines and such I’ve never focused much on. For me it’s the face and the intended line. Then it’s just ready, aim, fire and let my touch take over. The less perfect I try to be the better I putt.

It seems detrimental to just putt with the white side up, using a putter with no sight line and no sweet spot mark. If I have a few dollars riding on a six-footer to make, I fail to see how I can improve my chances by not lining the ball up. That, to me, just looks like carelessness.

 

 

[mogc60]

> @EmperorPenguin said:

> > @mogc60 said: The lines and such I’ve never focused much on. For me it’s the face and the intended line. Then it’s just ready, aim, fire and let my touch take over. The less perfect I try to be the better I putt.

> It seems detrimental to just putt with the white side up, using a putter with no sight line and no sweet spot mark. If I have a few dollars riding on a six-footer to make, I fail to see how I can improve my chances by not lining the ball up. That, to me, just looks like carelessness.

>

>

We all have what works for us. If I have a few bucks riding on a 6 footer I don’t need a line to know I’m gonna make it. But that’s my routine. Everyone is different there is no right or wrong way. The 6 ft left to right breaker I made on 18 when I shot 59, I used the same routine that’s always worked for me. Some people see an exact line...the best I can describe what I see is I see the road coming off the face but I don’t see center lines in the road. I just see a path. I believe that seeing your line is the most important part of hitting putts on line. You can read it and have a perfect stroke but if you can’t visualize and see your path you won’t make many putts. When I line up I see the path of the putt coming off the FACE of my putter and going in. Not a line on my golf ball that’s lined up wrong anyways. Or I’m questioning. That works for a lot of people, just not me. My routine is also very fast because there are very few variables in my approach to putting.

That putt for 59 was with this...worked good for me.