Trackman Numbers... are they legitimate?

[vbb]

Edit: Finally downloaded my Trackman data to give better context. This was with a 919 Hot Metal 6i with a NS Pro GH850 stiff shaft.

 

 

I had an iron fitting today on a Trackman, which was my first time ever hitting on a Trackman launch monitor and also my first official fitting (I've done some demo day stuff, but nothing like this). I've played long and often enough to know my on-course numbers pretty well, but obviously I've never seen data about my game as detailed as Trackman can provide. I started out by hitting my gamers... and after I warmed up and got used to hitting indoors in a semi-dark hitting bay, I started producing numbers and ball flight that matched what I see outside on the range and in my game. I hit my irons decently far as it is, with my 6 iron being my 185yd club. I don't get a ton of backspin though, so that often is 170yds of carry and then another 15yds of roll out. I normally hit a going-draw (which can hook on me when I miss) which also increases my roll compared to a fade. Anyway, I started seeing my normal ball flight and distance on the Trackman, which was cool to say the least.

 

Then I started the fitting. I'll save you all the details, but there were two things that made me wonder how legitimate the numbers are, and whether or not the fitter was doing something to get me to buy clubs. I'll say this, the guy was totally cool, seemingly very trustworthy and didn't appear to be doing any "funny stuff" with the computer, but some of the numbers didn't seem real. First was the smash factor. Once I got fitted into my best shafts, I was getting smash factor readings above 1.45 consistently, with a couple of 1.49s and 1.50s. The fitter kept commenting how high that was with an iron. He said it was over tour average. Now, irons are the strong part of my game, and I do tend to flush them pretty well, but nothing about my game is anywhere near "tour average." On one of my better strikes, I had a club speed of 87.8 and a ball speed of 130.4, giving me a smash of 1.48. This wasn't even one of those outlier 1.50s that I hit. Second, I started cranking the ball out there. Higher, longer, straighter. It was like magic. I starting hitting carries of 190yds with a 10yd roll out to 200yds. Average. With a SIX IRON! Apex averaging around 105ft. I had one that I just flushed and it went 208 with a 198 carry. Now I get that I was probably playing the wrong stuff before since I'd never been fitted and my irons are 9 years old, but come on. How did I pick up 20yds of carry? I felt sure he was messing with the wind or something (does Trackman even let you do that)?

 

So I swear this wasn't mean as a humble-brag. I've been playing 18 years and have technology from 9 years ago so I figured I'd pick up a little distance and consistency by getting fit and trying some new stuff. But primarily having a smash factor with an iron that high and then hitting clubs that far... it just didn't seem real. I mean the fitter did seem legitimately impressed, and kept commenting on how high the smash was, but I thought he was just doing that whole salesman "you look real cool behind the wheel of this new convertible" type of thing. I'm not convinced he wasn't. What do those of you who have more experience with Trackman say?

[Bucken77]

Trackman numbers are legit. At my lesson yesterday trackman was showing how awful my iron play is. Matched what I was seeing

[Krt22]

Trackman sometimes has issues indoors with club data, so worry less about the smash/CHS and more about the ball speed. Spin can also be misread indoors off mats.

 

Were their metallic stickers on the balls and was spin a solid number or in italics? What was the difference in ball speed?

[vbb]

I'm pretty sure there were little metallic stickers on the balls, yes. And I don't personally need the smash factor figures I was seeing to be 100% accurate...but I do want to believe that the overall numbers were. I mean I was expecting a little improvement over my gamer irons due to age of the tech and not having ever been fit. But I was flushing the ball in a way I just have never played...and hitting it higher and longer to boot. I want to be excited, but I'm also a skeptic overall. Again, the idea that I'm seeing efficiency (smash) numbers comparable to tour level player seems absurd.

[Krt22]

Ball speed is king. If you saw legit ball speed gains and spin was reasonable, you can trust the numbers.i

[vbb]

> @Krt22 said:

> Ball speed is king. If you saw legit ball speed gains and spin was reasonable, you can trust the numbers.i

 

I'm convinced the SS had to be off (reading too low) thereby throwing the ratio to BS off and jacking my smash factor numbers through the roof. I hit it solid with my irons, but I cannot accept I hit it more solidly than tour pros, lol. That's impossible. So the only reasonable explanation is that if my SS was really more in the lower 90s with my 6i, my smash would be a much more reasonable 1.40-1.44 which is still very good, but under pro averages.

 

All in all, I appreciate your advice. I just need to ignore SS and Smash Factor as they really don't tell me anything. BS, height, AoA, launch angle, carry and total distance are the stats that I needed. I just really wish the fitter would have said "hey, that smash factor has got to be off" rather than lead me to believe I was really doing something special.

[SNIPERBBB]

According to trackman, pga tour average is 92 club and 127 ball speed. 1.38 smash with 6 iron. They aren't all DJ or Champ.

[vbb]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> According to trackman, pga tour average is 92 club and 127 ball speed. 1.38 smash with 6 iron. They aren't all DJ or Champ.

 

I read the same, which is what convinced me there was no way I was seeing 1.48 if tour avg is 1.38. I may be able to hit it as far as some pro players but I know I don't hit it as pure as they do. Hitting it far with an iron is not how you score, so it isn't that impressive. I was much more thrown off by what I now know has to be an incorrect smash factor.

[GoTime]

I dont think you're hitting 190 6 iron with sub 90 club head speed, but that's just me.

[vbb]

> @Go_Time said:

> I dont think you're hitting 190 6 iron with sub 90 club head speed, but that's just me.

 

Ok, then what do you think is off with the numbers? The numbers I pulled were from my Trackman fitting session. My swing speed was measuring in the upper 80s and my ball speed was measuring in the 128-131mph range. If both of those numbers are accurate, then my smash factor is well over tour average... so that can't be right. Either my swing speed was measuring too low, or my ball speed is measuring too high. However if the ball speed is measuring high, then none of my numbers were legitimate. My carry distances were in the 190yd range...some as high as mid 190s. My carry distances with my gamers is in the 170-175 range, so the fitting suggested that with my best shaft and head combo, I was gaining 15-20yds.

 

I'm just guessing my swing speed numbers had to be reading low. I could allow for the fact that the ball speed numbers were reading high... but if that's correct, then again, none of my numbers made any sense. That's why I started this thread.

[Krt22]

 

> I dont think you're hitting 190 6 iron with sub 90 club head speed, but that's just me.

 

Trackman can sometimes under report CHS when used indoors resulting in high smash . Ball speed/spin/LA is a better indicator of what's going on. If he's in the 130+ ball speed range 190 isn't unlikely.

 

[trilerian]

As was said above, pay attention to the ball speed. I swing my 7i around 80 mph +\- a couple mph . My best shots are 115 mph ball speed, and I can carry that 170yds. So I would definitely say with 130 mph ball speed, 190yds is more then believable. I use my 7i for comparison because it probably has the same loft as your 6i.

[RichieHunt]

Trackman struggles indoors with carry. As far as under reporting club speed, it's a problem for Trackman with the drivers, not so much with the irons unless you have some sort of huge GI type iron head. And even then, it's rarely an issue with the irons.

 

Ball speed is important, but not everything if your launch and spin are different. For example, Tour average ball speed is about 169 with the driver and they carry it roughly 279 yards on average. I have a ball speed of 163 mph and carry it about 280-285. Why? Because my launch and spin rates allow me to carry it further. The same applies with the irons.

 

I don't see a smash factor of 1.48+ with a 6-iron happening. Because of my launch conditions, my smash factors are usually maxed out. Last year when I got fitted, using TM P790's I was maxing out my 7-iron at 1.42. This was an outdoor fitting off a mat. So my guess is that Trackman is having major difficult with reading into the net. And that's why I don't get indoor fittings.

 

 

 

RH

[vbb]

> @RichieHunt said:

> Trackman struggles indoors with carry. As far as under reporting club speed, it's a problem for Trackman with the drivers, not so much with the irons unless you have some sort of huge GI type iron head. And even then, it's rarely an issue with the irons.

>

> Ball speed is important, but not everything if your launch and spin are different. For example, Tour average ball speed is about 169 with the driver and they carry it roughly 279 yards on average. I have a ball speed of 163 mph and carry it about 280-285. Why? Because my launch and spin rates allow me to carry it further. The same applies with the irons.

>

> I don't see a smash factor of 1.48+ with a 6-iron happening. Because of my launch conditions, my smash factors are usually maxed out. Last year when I got fitted, using TM P790's I was maxing out my 7-iron at 1.42. This was an outdoor fitting off a mat. So my guess is that Trackman is having major difficult with reading into the net. And that's why I don't get indoor fittings.

>

>

>

> RH

 

Thanks for your reply. I've spent a lot (too much) time thinking and analyzing all of this, but need to remind myself that what happens on the course is all that really matters. I'm not trying to win at Trackman, I'm trying to score. My worry was that somehow the fitter was "gaming" the system to make it look like I was performing way better than I was. I've heard that happen before in the big box store hitting bays, and I felt that even though I did a more private Trackman fitting, anything was possible. I no longer believe the fitter was doing something dishonest and now just think even though the units are $20K, Trackman still has its limitations.

 

The most important statistic is compared to my 9 year old gamer irons with shafts I wasn't fitted for, I found a combination that produced higher, longer and straighter shots under identical conditions. So even if the Trackman was reading off on SS, BS, carry or all of the above, it was consistently reading off through my entire fitting. What cannot be argued is that back to back, the new iron and shaft combo I was fitted into made a significant difference in everything about my ball flight, and I guess that was the point of the fitting.

 

Still... it felt kinda manly to rocket some 200+ yard 6 irons high and soft, even if Trackman wasn't 100% accurate. We'll see what I can do in real life.

[ALIF]

Sound like it’s time to buy some new stixs!

[vbb]

Updated 1st post with the Trackman data

[SNIPERBBB]

The hot metals, are well a bit hot. I play the 900 version. Your ball speeds arent much different from mine, obviously the club speed is off. You might even find a few more yards hitting them outside as most people cant swing as fast inside vs outside.