Weaker grip and more release

[surefire]

Is there any advantage to doing this?

My basic question is whether there is any advantage to having a weaker grip, with more release, as opposed to a stronger grip and less release.

Currently I do the latter, however an instructor I was considering working with (previous guy, has moved away) wants me to do the former.
I haven't yet spoken to him about his reasoning, but was wondering what opinion here was, as I know there's a lot of knowledge on these boards.

If there is a worthwhile advantage, I am willing to go this way, but if there's no reason for this apart from "its his method" then I would rather not spend a lot of time relearning a different way to do something, when I could spend that time working on something more fundamentally important to my game.

Thanks in advance for any advice\opinions.

[funkyfedora]

This is something that I plan to try for this season. I release too much so I hope the weaker grip will help me out. A lot of over drawing at the end of my shots. Sorry I'm not much help. Good luck with everything.

[farmer]

The grip is the most important fundamental part of your game. It's also the most diffcult change to get comfortable with. If you're happy with your shot shape, and you're making solid contact....why change?

[surefire]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1294073796' post='2872725']
The grip is the most important fundamental part of your game. It's also the most diffcult change to get comfortable with. If you're happy with your shot shape, and you're making solid contact....why change?
[/quote]

That's my question really. I can't really see a reason to change this, but I wondered if there is something I am not considering, or not realising here.

Unless my grip was extreme or abnormally strong (which it isn't) or there's something to be gained, I don't see why I should change.

If there is a valid reason I will work with this guy, if not I will search for someone else, although still maybe stick with this guy for my short game and strategy as he is great with that.

[putt4_66]

It's possible this instructor is basing his proposed change on swing path. With a strong grip you likely hit the ball on the inside and release the club away from your body. In other words, if you put a glove in your left arm pit (for a RH golfer), the glove would fall out after making contact. Or, you release the club away from your body while rotating your shoulders out of the way very quickly. The glove might stay in.

Some instructors want their students to finish the swing by having the swing path go left immediately after impact. That is, "to finish left." Somewhat, if not exactly, like the Hardy One Plane swing. You keep the connection of your upper arms and you torso together throughout the swing. You could put gloves under both arms and they would stay there. With a real strong grip and this type of swing, you'd pull the ball every time. It requires a weaker grip. Of course, this may have nothing to do with this instructor's reasoning. He may just believe in a lot of forearm rotation. However, if I were in your shoes, I would be asking him if the change is based on rotation alone, or if the grip change is because of a belief in a change in swing path.

I hope that helps.

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1294073796' post='2872725']
The grip is the most important fundamental part of your game. It's also the most diffcult change to get comfortable with. If you're happy with your shot shape, and you're making solid contact....why change?
[/quote]
How can the grip be the most important fundamental part of the game when there are such a wide variety of grips that are successful at the tour level?

[PreppySlapCut]

I never think of "slinging" as being a good way to release the club and return it to square. If you can have a slightly stronger grip and use a good pivot of the body to square up the club with "quiet hands," it's a much more consistent way to hit the ball solid IN MY OPINION.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='surefire' timestamp='1294071398' post='2872668']
My basic question is whether there is any advantage to having a weaker grip, with more release, as opposed to a stronger grip and less release.

Currently I do the latter, however an instructor I was considering working with (previous guy, has moved away) wants me to do the former.
I haven't yet spoken to him about his reasoning, but was wondering what opinion here was, as I know there's a lot of knowledge on these boards.

If there is a worthwhile advantage, I am willing to go this way, but if there's no reason for this apart from "its his method" then I would rather not spend a lot of time relearning a different way to do something, when I could spend that time working on something more fundamentally important to my game.

Thanks in advance for any advice\opinions.
[/quote]

I am a bag fan of a natural release, which is the amount of rotation that your body naturally creates when it is done properly.

If your grip is too strong, you will not be able to do this.

That being the case, unless someone's grip is extremely strong, I DO NOT like changing grips unless they are terrible and ruining address posture.

To answer your question...a weaker grip may help, but unless you are releasing naturally and hitting nothing but pulls, I don't like the idea of a grip change.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='funkyfedora' timestamp='1294072893' post='2872704']
This is something that I plan to try for this season. I release too much so I hope the weaker grip will help me out. A lot of over drawing at the end of my shots. Sorry I'm not much help. Good luck with everything.
[/quote]

IMO, there is no such thing as "releasing too much."

It's one of three things (before you worry about a grip change)

1. The release is incorrect and not natural...such as a cast or a late release that turns into a flip.

2. The release is not happening in sync with the rotation of the body.

3. The swing path is bad.

[gators78]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1294083333' post='2873013']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1294073796' post='2872725']
The grip is the most important fundamental part of your game. It's also the most diffcult change to get comfortable with. If you're happy with your shot shape, and you're making solid contact....why change?
[/quote]
How can the grip be the most important fundamental part of the game when there are such a wide variety of grips that are successful at the tour level?
[/quote]


Exactly, I mean have you seen Tommy Gainey hit a ball? Take a legit baseball bat grip, make it super strong and you got it, and yet he's got his Tour card. Hmmmm.

[farmer]

When I read about players working on their games, they always start with the grip. It's the first chapter in Five Fundamentals. When Jack Nicklaus went back to Jack Grout for his annual tuneup, they always started with the grip. Yes, there are funky grips on tour, just like there are some funky swings, but those are the exceptions. The grip is the fundamental point of connection to the club. That's why I think the grip is the most important fundament to a good swing.

[TB07]

Generally speaking, a weaker grip will require more clubface rotation to square the face at impact(It will also feel like more release). A stronger grip will require less clubface rotation as well it will FEEL less. It all depends on your swing and what it needs.

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1294111162' post='2873822']
When I read about players working on their games, they always start with the grip. It's the first chapter in Five Fundamentals. When Jack Nicklaus went back to Jack Grout for his annual tuneup, they always started with the grip. Yes, there are funky grips on tour, just like there are some funky swings, but those are the exceptions. The grip is the fundamental point of connection to the club. That's why I think the grip is the most important fundament to a good swing.
[/quote]
I'm not referencing one guy, or one particular grip. In between Tommy Gainey and Rod Pampling you will find countless ways to connect your hands to the club. That to me is the antithesis of fundamental.

[surefire]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1294086996' post='2873108']
I am a bag fan of a natural release, which is the amount of rotation that your body naturally creates when it is done properly.

If your grip is too strong, you will not be able to do this.

That being the case, unless someone's grip is extremely strong, I DO NOT like changing grips unless they are terrible and ruining address posture.

To answer your question...a weaker grip may help, but unless you are releasing naturally and hitting nothing but pulls, I don't like the idea of a grip change.
[/quote]

By natural release, am I right to assume you mean that with no manipulation, the clubhead returns to the ball square?

If so, this is my current situation.
I don't think about releasing the club, or not releasing the club at all, and with my current grip, the clubface returns to the ball pretty consistently square.

Changing to the weaker grip, would mean that I have to actively release the club to get the face square, if I don't do this, currently doing what I do naturally leaves the face open and causes a push fade.


Also the reason I am seeing the instructor, isn't because I have suddenly come accross an issue and want a fix. I am just trying to get myself to the next level.
I am currently a UK 4 handicap and would like to try and lower this. I think most gains will come from strategy and around the green, but I would also like to make sure I am not leaking any power, as I'm currently an accurate, but not very long hitter.

[aliikane]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1294073796' post='2872725']
The grip is the most important fundamental part of your game. It's also the most diffcult change to get comfortable with. If you're happy with your shot shape, and you're making solid contact....why change?
[/quote]

I agree. I think the grip is an individual thing. Whatever works best for the person because everyone has different body type, strength, and flexibility. On pro tour there is all kinds of grips weak, strong, baseball, interlock, overlap, reverse overlap, and even cross-handed. So if it works at pro level, then any type of grip can't be bad.

[dlygrisse]

Johnny Miller did this in his prime, very weak grip and really fired his hands, he was maybe the most accurate iron player ever at a high level. That being said I would be wary of doing it. JMO

[34golf]

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1294185352' post='2875265']
Johnny Miller did this in his prime, very weak grip and really fired his hands, he was maybe the most accurate iron player ever at a high level. That being said I would be wary of doing it. JMO
[/quote]


Johnny miller did have a weak grip, and he was one of the best iron players ever. But if you watch footage of him he did not fire his hands through impact. He had a very slow rate of clubface closure through impact and kept the clubface square to the arc.
In my opinion a weak grip and more release will lead to inconsistency especially in tournaments,

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='surefire' timestamp='1294129569' post='2874119']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1294086996' post='2873108']
I am a bag fan of a natural release, which is the amount of rotation that your body naturally creates when it is done properly.

If your grip is too strong, you will not be able to do this.

That being the case, unless someone's grip is extremely strong, I DO NOT like changing grips unless they are terrible and ruining address posture.

To answer your question...a weaker grip may help, but unless you are releasing naturally and hitting nothing but pulls, I don't like the idea of a grip change.
[/quote]

By natural release, am I right to assume you mean that with no manipulation, the clubhead returns to the ball square?

If so, this is my current situation.
I don't think about releasing the club, or not releasing the club at all, and with my current grip, the clubface returns to the ball pretty consistently square.

Changing to the weaker grip, would mean that I have to actively release the club to get the face square, if I don't do this, currently doing what I do naturally leaves the face open and causes a push fade.


Also the reason I am seeing the instructor, isn't because I have suddenly come accross an issue and want a fix. I am just trying to get myself to the next level.
I am currently a UK 4 handicap and would like to try and lower this. I think most gains will come from strategy and around the green, but I would also like to make sure I am not leaking any power, as I'm currently an accurate, but not very long hitter.
[/quote]

I would agree with everything you said. Especially the part about strategy and around the green getting you to the next level.

As far as leaking power. The biggest power leak I find...and this will sound counter intuitive...is a back swing that is too long. People that have back swings that continue after the shoulder turn is complete with exrta arm swing and hand motion almost always leak power.

I am not suggesting that you have that problem, I am saying that most often, it is a swing flaw that leaks power and not some radical manipulation that creates new power.

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='34golf' timestamp='1294193590' post='2875567']
[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1294185352' post='2875265']
Johnny Miller did this in his prime, very weak grip and really fired his hands, he was maybe the most accurate iron player ever at a high level. That being said I would be wary of doing it. JMO
[/quote]


Johnny miller did have a weak grip, and he was one of the best iron players ever. But if you watch footage of him he did not fire his hands through impact. He had a very slow rate of clubface closure through impact and kept the clubface square to the arc.
In my opinion a weak grip and more release will lead to inconsistency especially in tournaments,
[/quote]

JM hit lots of different shots, here is a video of him explaining how to hit a draw, he talks of covering the ball with his hands. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZLvKDdQGc"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nHZLvKDdQGc[/url]
True he probably didn't try to draw most of his shots, and I agree I wouldn't recommend a weak grip for most but it is one way to do it.

If you watch the end of the video when he talks about impact he clearly explains how he fires his hand into impact, with a bent right wrist. draw, fade and straight. quote "you want to be domineering at impact"

Here is another, the 'karate move" [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvTWgui4Tjo&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvTWgui4Tjo&NR=1[/url] he is not flippy at all, keeps the wrist bent back through impact.

[dpb5031]

Your grip, release and body orientation as a result of your pivot all have to be married up for optimal impact. There have been great players with various combinations of the aforementioned. Since it does not sound like you need an overhaul, why not try turning through to your left side more aggressively using your pivot while getting the sensation of pulling the back of your left hand downward and low to the left through the ball without flipping it? This will keep the club face from closing and should give you a powerful feeling at impact. It is a much easier adjustment in my opinion than fiddling with an otherwise sound grip. Just turn through hard and "thump it."

[putt4_66]

I don't know whether you are a fan of Peter Kostis, the instructor, not the announcer, but last year during a broadcast they were showing a TOUR player with a weak grip. At the end of the discussion, he stated: "There have been many more great golfers with string grips than there have been with weak grips."

[NoTalentLefty]

Not wanting to open a new post so.... I had my best golf years using a weak grip. Not sure why but it felt very natural then. My ball striking was much better but I switched to get more distance. Lost consistency and put me in those wandering years way too long. This year when surgery is over and rehab says you can golf, its back in my game for testing. Ive always wondered that the weaker grip help keep my "knuckles down" during the swing without as much thought compared what I have experienced with a stronger grip. We shall see. Good read above this post.

[BMC]

Discussion about weak and strong grips. What's wrong with a neutral grip?

Tiger, Jack, Adam Scott, and many others seem to make a neutral grip work.

[mikpga]

What does the ball do when you "release too much"?

[jim rockford]

i think "release too much" is a pull........ certainly, a hard release with a strong grip = hard pull (duck hook?)

this is a very interesting subject....... one thing i think golf advice in magazines is weak on is matching everything up right. what doesn't work together. say you have a preference for playing the ball a little back of what is suggested. then i'm not sure a weak grip works with that. or distance you stand from ball

[jim rockford]

> @BMC said:

> Discussion about weak and strong grips. What's wrong with a neutral grip?

> Tiger, Jack, Adam Scott, and many others seem to make a neutral grip work.

 

i tend to agree........... i think there was so much strong advice to going to a strong grip. i was just caddying a pga canada (5 exemptions to web.com offered) event this last weekend and didn't see alot of strong grips. saw some for sure.

[gators78]

Bringing this thread back to life...

There does seem to be a surprising amount of young guys with weak, to extremely weak, left hand grips. Spieth, Thomas, Champ, and Rahm all have the hand way under the grip, and recently from the NCAAs, Thornberry, Wolff and Sisk fall into that category.

[jim rockford]

cam champ has a weak grip?.... not disagreeing as i have no idea. just find it a bit surprising. but very interesting if true