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Nicklaus golf courses (only if you like his work)


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There should be 0 participants in this thread. At the very least no one who draws the ball

 

I think that's a big misconception, IMO. At my course the vast majority of the holes are very receptive to a draw or fade on both tee shots and approaches. Many of the holes look like they favor a fade but a draw will work just fine.

 

In fact, if you play the proper side of the fairway a straight ball is best.

 

It's a total misconception. I hit a draw and love to play Nicklaus courses.

 

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong.

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There should be 0 participants in this thread. At the very least no one who draws the ball

 

I think that's a big misconception, IMO. At my course the vast majority of the holes are very receptive to a draw or fade on both tee shots and approaches. Many of the holes look like they favor a fade but a draw will work just fine.

 

In fact, if you play the proper side of the fairway a straight ball is best.

 

It's a total misconception. I hit a draw and love to play Nicklaus courses.

 

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong.

IMHO, the only time his firm's propensity to have L->R fairways is overly annoying is on treelined courses or one's that have trees in certain bits, The Bull comes to mind as one where I really noticed the L->R bias. Otherwise a bunch of courses of his I've played are fairly open, so you just draw it into the fairway, as opposed to along the fairway.

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

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There should be 0 participants in this thread. At the very least no one who draws the ball

 

I think that's a big misconception, IMO. At my course the vast majority of the holes are very receptive to a draw or fade on both tee shots and approaches. Many of the holes look like they favor a fade but a draw will work just fine.

 

In fact, if you play the proper side of the fairway a straight ball is best.

 

It's a total misconception. I hit a draw and love to play Nicklaus courses.

 

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong.

IMHO, the only time his firm's propensity to have L->R fairways is overly annoying is on treelined courses or one's that have trees in certain bits, The Bull comes to mind as one where I really noticed the L->R bias. Otherwise a bunch of courses of his I've played are fairly open, so you just draw it into the fairway, as opposed to along the fairway.

 

A lot of Nicklaus courses have generous landing areas, then he makes you really work around the greens.

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I think I've only played three Nicklaus courses -

 

Achasta - I enjoy the course, there's a minimum of houses. I just don't know how they found such a flat, boring piece of property in that county.

Bears Best Atlanta - I like the layout, but there are houses EVERYWHERE. Bombers paradise, with mostly wide open landing areas.

Country Club of the South - I know I played it once, but I have absolutely no memory of it. Not a good sign.

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Cabo Del Sol (Ocean), May River and Valhalla are my top picks. The rest have been complete snooze fests

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Jack was the 1st guy to start designing some dope courses in Cabo.

 

Cabo Del Sol, Palmilla, Puerto Los Cabos.

 

Then he made Quivira which is insane, and El Dorado which one of discovery land comp bread and butter courses.

 

In Hawaii he created some master pieces- The Challenge at Manele Bay & Hualalai.

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Here's my list:

 

Muirfield Village

Glen Abbey

Pawley’s Plantation

Avila

PGA National Champion

Nicklaus North

GB Club at Keene’s Point

Bear’s Best LV

Cozumel Country Club

Bay Pointe PCB

Cougar Canyon

Old Corkscrew

 

I thought I would have played more. I loved Cougar Canyon in CO but hear it is closed now

 

The guys talking about the 5 pars (thanks Johnny) at MV have it dead right ... incredible !!!!!!!

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There should be 0 participants in this thread. At the very least no one who draws the ball

 

I think that's a big misconception, IMO. At my course the vast majority of the holes are very receptive to a draw or fade on both tee shots and approaches. Many of the holes look like they favor a fade but a draw will work just fine.

 

In fact, if you play the proper side of the fairway a straight ball is best.

 

It's a total misconception. I hit a draw and love to play Nicklaus courses.

 

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong.

 

This.

 

His courses aren’t easy and generally require you to play a smart game and not just swing away. On my course the placement of many of the front bunkers will make you think a fade is the shot to play but that’s not the case. There are a LOT of pin positions where he just wants you going at the middle of the green.

 

Add in a LOT of forced carries and it is not a fun course for a struggling golfer.

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  • 3 weeks later...
CMCSGolf said:

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong. I'm a senior and have lots of fun playing Nicklaus courses.  Maybe somebody has done a study to determine how many fronting bunkers he typically has.   I've played 39 of his courses and just based on memory, I don't think there are that many fronting bunkers.
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CMCSGolf said:

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong.
I'm a senior and have lots of fun playing Nicklaus courses.  Maybe somebody has done a study to determine how many fronting bunkers he typically has.   I've played 39 of his courses and just based on memory, I don't think there are that many fronting bunkers.Judging by your interest in golf and how much you post here, I'm guessing you're not an average senior golfer who hits a 170 Driver? I should also clarify that I meant golfers who are 70+ with significant declines in strength.  I also haven't done a comprehensive study on his courses and bunkers, but it is my impression that the courses are tough than average.  

 

Have you found that to be true in your experience?  I think tougher courses will be relatively less fun for older/weaker players.

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CMCSGolf said:
CMCSGolf said:

I would agree. I have not found that fades are disproportionately favored. However, I do think you need to hit it high to play his courses well. There are a lot of fronting bunkers and an aerial game with good spin helps a lot to get at the greens. I don't think his courses are tremendously fun for women or seniors because of this, but I could be wrong.
I'm a senior and have lots of fun playing Nicklaus courses.  Maybe somebody has done a study to determine how many fronting bunkers he typically has.   I've played 39 of his courses and just based on memory, I don't think there are that many fronting bunkers.Judging by your interest in golf and how much you post here, I'm guessing you're not an average senior golfer who hits a 170 Driver? I should also clarify that I meant golfers who are 70+ with significant declines in strength.  I also haven't done a comprehensive study on his courses and bunkers, but it is my impression that the courses are tough than average.  

 

Have you found that to be true in your experience?  I think tougher courses will be relatively less fun for older/weaker players.Yes, you are correct. I'm almost 70 but still hit drives in the 230 - 240 range and have enough clubhead speed to spin my irons.  So hitting over bunkers and hazards is not an issue.  Some of the guys I play with can't spin the ball, so if they have a forced carry to the green they go over most often.

 

Yes, if you are hitting drivers 170 - 200 and seven irons 120 -130 you will have trouble with some Nicklaus courses.

 

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I should say, I'm not even sure this characteristic of Nicklaus courses is a bad thing.  Who says one course needs to be all things to all people?  I believe classic courses that are more playable to a broader range of players are better, but I enjoy the variety of seeing a tough course (that might be a Nicklaus) from time to time.  And while I'm young and relatively strong, I'll continue to play and enjoy courses like the Bull.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have played a few of those mentioned TPC Mi, Glen Abbey, Turtle Point and a couple that haven’t come up. The Bear in Traverse City is an early JN design, still a difficult course, lots of moguls and fescue. Recently I played The Reserve at St. James in NC and really liked it but as previously mentioned it is quite difficult for short ball seniors like myself.

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  • 2 months later...

I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

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> @LICC said:

> I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

 

Good analysis. I plan to play Punta Espada in January. I will play my 41st and 42nd Nicklaus courses on that trip.

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> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

>

> Good analysis. I plan to play Punta Espada in January. I will play my 41st and 42nd Nicklaus courses on that trip.

 

Punta Espada is head and shoulders above the other Punta Cana courses. Really outstanding. I haven’t played Teeth of the Dog so cant compare it.

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Punta Espada is awesome...love it and look forward to playing there every year.

 

Yesterday I played in the US Senior Open qualifier at Bear's Club in Jupiter, FL . Tons of Tour players call Bear's home, and it was designed to challenge the best players in the world. I would characterize it as reasonably generous from the tee, but very demanding on approaches. He gives you bail out areas, but getting it up and down from those areas will almost always be a real test of your short game. I would say left-to-right and right-to-left are equally represented.

 

Generally I feel that Jack's courses demand a real gut-check for better players. You just cant fake it on his tracks...ya need to buck up to the challenge and execute if you expect to make par or better.

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> @LICC said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

> >

> > Good analysis. I plan to play Punta Espada in January. I will play my 41st and 42nd Nicklaus courses on that trip.

>

> Punta Espada is head and shoulders above the other Punta Cana courses. Really outstanding. I haven’t played Teeth of the Dog so cant compare it.

 

I played Teeth three years ago and will play it again in January. We plan to play Punta Espada twice. So I should be able to make a fair comparison.

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> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

> > >

> > > Good analysis. I plan to play Punta Espada in January. I will play my 41st and 42nd Nicklaus courses on that trip.

> >

> > Punta Espada is head and shoulders above the other Punta Cana courses. Really outstanding. I haven’t played Teeth of the Dog so cant compare it.

>

> I played Teeth three years ago and will play it again in January. We plan to play Punta Espada twice. So I should be able to make a fair comparison.

 

They're both great. PE is the shiny new penny though...

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> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

> > > >

> > > > Good analysis. I plan to play Punta Espada in January. I will play my 41st and 42nd Nicklaus courses on that trip.

> > >

> > > Punta Espada is head and shoulders above the other Punta Cana courses. Really outstanding. I haven’t played Teeth of the Dog so cant compare it.

> >

> > I played Teeth three years ago and will play it again in January. We plan to play Punta Espada twice. So I should be able to make a fair comparison.

>

> They're both great. PE is the shiny new penny though...

 

The only drawback on Punta Espada is that it is not a walkable course due to some long green to tee distances, some through housing areas. And I love walking. They encourage you to take carts. Otherwise, I put it near (not at but near) my experience playing Pebble Beach. I haven't played any course that beats the Pebble Beach experience but Punta Espada was in the same category. The holes on the water are amazing because you are right at sea level. You feel the splash as you play the holes. And the inland holes are excellent. You don't lose interest in the golf on the inland holes. A great course in a beautiful setting.

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> @LICC said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > I have played four Nicklaus courses and enjoyed all of them. Punta Espada was one of the most incredible courses I have played. I think Ferry Point is great too. Have also played Kauai Lagoons and Mansion Ridge. I like that the courses make you think, especially on the approach shots. You have to know your distances to decide whether to try a carry or lay up. They also seem to use the features of the site very well, routing holes to take advantage of elevations, terrain, views. I found them all to be fair in their challenges and to have interesting greens. Some spots seem to require too precise of a shot here and there but nothing crazy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good analysis. I plan to play Punta Espada in January. I will play my 41st and 42nd Nicklaus courses on that trip.

> > > >

> > > > Punta Espada is head and shoulders above the other Punta Cana courses. Really outstanding. I haven’t played Teeth of the Dog so cant compare it.

> > >

> > > I played Teeth three years ago and will play it again in January. We plan to play Punta Espada twice. So I should be able to make a fair comparison.

> >

> > They're both great. PE is the shiny new penny though...

>

> The only drawback on Punta Espada is that it is not a walkable course due to some long green to tee distances, some through housing areas. And I love walking. They encourage you to take carts. Otherwise, I put it near (not at but near) my experience playing Pebble Beach. I haven't played any course that beats the Pebble Beach experience but Punta Espada was in the same category. The holes on the water are amazing because you are right at sea level. You feel the splash as you play the holes. And the inland holes are excellent. You don't lose interest in the golf on the inland holes. A great course in a beautiful setting.

 

Agree about PE, it's like a Caribbean Pebble Beach, but with better off-ocean holes! I think 8 holes are directly on the ocean, and you've got an ocean view at least from some vantage point on most of the remaining 10. Carts and fore caddies are mandatory, but we often walk some having the caddies advance the carts for us. The distances from green to tee are really no big deal. The only one of any significance in terms of crossing a road is from 11 to 12, and 15 to 16. You're right about getting sprayed by the ocean; it's really magnificent and so cool that they used the oceanfront property for golf instead of housing...very rare!!!

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      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
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