"Carts due in by 8pm!"

[BMC]

I work at a large pricey private club. Most evening rounds consist of couples, younger guys trying to get in a late round after work,and dads with kids. We would NEVER demand a cart be in at a specific time. We want these people to enjoy themselves. The closers on the cart staff work until the last cart comes in. Period.

[Greenie]

I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about safety in the thread yet.

There is a course that I play that started carts in 30 mins before dark and usually has it posted what time that time will be. I thought carts in 30 mins before dark was a little silly. I'm never rushing to beat darkness anyway but I had to comment on their policy when I checked it one time.

This course has a pond going accross the fairway on 18 and a pond on 16 which makes that hole a slight dog leg left. The starter told me they started the 30 minutes before sunset policy because they had a group drive into the pond on 18 around dark the week before. He said it wasn't the first time someone has drove into 18 and they have had someone in the pond on 16 too.

Not knowing the course I could see that happening on 18. That pond sneaks up on you fast if you don't know it is there.

[Murphy76]

> @golfgirlrobin said:

> > @Murphy76 said:

> > > @a_crook said:

> > > > @Roody said:

> > > > Why should the pro shop staff have to wait around all evening for you to bring the cart in whenever you please?

> > > Uh, because it's your job and you're in a service industry?

> > > That's part of the job. Golfers want to play as long as they can, and should be able to. Grow the game.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > That sort of response makes me see red.

> >

> > Being in the 'service industry' does not grant people the right to treat you poorly. Regardless of the club policy/rules issue, just because you pay for something does not grant you the right to abuse the staff. While 'abuse' is a strong word, taking someone else's time because of your own selfishness and disregard for rules is unacceptable. They have lives and schedules like anyone else.

> >

> > That type of thinking is behind people abusing waiters because "its' their job to take abuse". Do you show up at a restaurant and expect service 10 minutes before the kitchen closes?

> >

> > I am not disputing whether the club's rule is right or wrong. I dispute the attitude that it is ok to abuse someone else's time just because they are in the 'service industry'.

>

> No one said anything about abusing anyone. No one is advocating treating anyone poorly. The point was that management ought to understand that summertime means late play and schedule workers accordingly. That’s it.

>

>

>

 

Again, I wasn't debating the courses' policy or practices. That wasn't my issue.

 

My beef was with the idea that "they should suck it up because they work in the "service industry", and that they should just donate their time and lives to "Grow the Game".

[Big Ben]

I think the beef here isn’t with safety which in the case of the ponds does make sense. Same with a course that has major elevation changes, I lovingly call mountain goat golf. I think it’s Mgmt allowing employees to close shop early so everyone can go home. It would be no different than a 9-5 office deciding 3pm was good enough. To hell with the Customers they can wait until tomorrow. No soup for you!

[Bonneville85308]

I would think the marginal cost of the staff member or two hanging out for another hour or so waiting for the last cart would be easily covered by one extra golfer deciding to pay and play because he could get 18 holes in by playing up to darkness, instead of not bothering to play at all because he knew he wouldn't be able to get to the course early enough to finish before the early cart return cut-off time.

In other words, if I can't tee off until 5pm because of work, I am going to play a course that lets me play until I finish 18 holes or darkness, whichever comes first, and not the one that says I have to have the cart back at 7 with over an hour of light left regardless of how many holes I have left then. But that's just me.

[s1mZ]

To summarise this thread from my observation - entitlement vs rules.

If you read the OP post - "...a **policy** demanding that carts are returned..". The policy was created for whatever reason (safety, cost or possibly outdated / nonsensical reasons), but when you pay for a cart you agree to those T&Cs just like any service. If you think the club should reconsider this, then follow due process, else join another club / play twilight at a more accommodating course. If they turn a blind eye to you on the course, more people will demand same treatment.

 

Here in Johannesburg, my course have a early-bird special in Summer (5 am tee, with breakfast). But the policy is strictly 9 holes with no cart. But I have 1 friend who is always causing chaos every year by demanding "I need a cart waiting for me...and I can play 12 holes before the normal tee times.". It wont work unfortunately.

 

[Roody]

> @Bonneville85308 said:

> In other words, if I can't tee off until 5pm because of work, I am going to play a course that lets me play until I finish 18 holes or darkness, whichever comes first, and not the one that says I have to have the cart back at 7 with over an hour of light left regardless of how many holes I have left then. But that's just me.

 

I don't have the expectation that I will be able to get 18 in if I tee off after 5:00. My mindset is 9 holes, maybe a few extra. If I get lucky enough to have no one ahead of me, I can squeeze in 18.

 

[puttingmatt]

Charging $50 dollars after 6:00 P.M. For carts would easily pay for and solve

The issue of compensation for employees to take care of carts at the end of the day.

[North Butte]

> Charging $50 dollars after 6:00 P.M. For carts would easily pay for and solve

> The issue of compensation for employees to take care of carts at the end of the day.

 

I'm betting there is a high correlation between people who insist on being allowed to keep carts out until a half-hour past sunset and those who also insist on being given a knock-down price because it's "twilight". They ain't about to pay 50 bucks for a privilege they think they are owed for cheap.

[puttingmatt]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > Charging $50 dollars after 6:00 P.M. For carts would easily pay for and solve

> > The issue of compensation for employees to take care of carts at the end of the day.

>

> I'm betting there is a high correlation between people who insist on being allowed to keep carts out until a half-hour past sunset and those who also insist on being given a knock-down price because it's "twilight". They ain't about to pay 50 bucks for a privilege they think they are owed for cheap.

 

I am sure you are correct, so let them pay, or simply walk.

Each course will set their own rules about cart fees and usage.

 

[North Butte]

Speaking of "service employees" this whole thing reminds me of a thing that anyone whose working the restaurant business has encountered. If the place closes at 9pm there's always the guy who wants to walk in at 8:55 and gets indignant if he can't have a couple drinks, pore over the menu for a while and order a full meal once he gets around to it.

 

Even at the lowest levels it's a thing. Back in high school I worked in McDonalds. Weeknights we'd close at 10pm (yeah, it was that long ago) and quite often people would show up and literally pound on the door at 10:30 or 10:45 wanting us to open up. Sometimes even if we walked over and pointed out the closing-time sign they would stand there and keep pounding, I guess figuring we'd eventually give in a set the kitchen back up to cook them a Big Mac.

[Roody]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Speaking of "service employees" this whole thing reminds me of a thing that anyone whose working the restaurant business has encountered. If the place closes at 9pm there's always the guy who wants to walk in at 8:55 and gets indignant if he can't have a couple drinks, pore over the menu for a while and order a full meal once he gets around to it.

>

> Even at the lowest levels it's a thing. Back in high school I worked in McDonalds. Weeknights we'd close at 10pm (yeah, it was that long ago) and quite often people would show up and literally pound on the door at 10:30 or 10:45 wanting us to open up. Sometimes even if we walked over and pointed out the closing-time sign they would stand there and keep pounding, I guess figuring we'd eventually give in a set the kitchen back up to cook them a Big Mac.

 

I think it's that some people have this notion that they're entitled to whatever they want.

 

"Make me a bicycle, clown!"

[cval]

> @Murphy76 said:

> > @golfgirlrobin said:

> > > @Murphy76 said:

> > > > @a_crook said:

> > > > > @Roody said:

> > > > > Why should the pro shop staff have to wait around all evening for you to bring the cart in whenever you please?

> > > > Uh, because it's your job and you're in a service industry?

> > > > That's part of the job. Golfers want to play as long as they can, and should be able to. Grow the game.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > That sort of response makes me see red.

> > >

> > > Being in the 'service industry' does not grant people the right to treat you poorly. Regardless of the club policy/rules issue, just because you pay for something does not grant you the right to abuse the staff. While 'abuse' is a strong word, taking someone else's time because of your own selfishness and disregard for rules is unacceptable. They have lives and schedules like anyone else.

> > >

> > > That type of thinking is behind people abusing waiters because "its' their job to take abuse". Do you show up at a restaurant and expect service 10 minutes before the kitchen closes?

> > >

> > > I am not disputing whether the club's rule is right or wrong. I dispute the attitude that it is ok to abuse someone else's time just because they are in the 'service industry'.

> >

> > No one said anything about abusing anyone. No one is advocating treating anyone poorly. The point was that management ought to understand that summertime means late play and schedule workers accordingly. That’s it.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Again, I wasn't debating the courses' policy or practices. That wasn't my issue.

>

> My beef was with the idea that "they should suck it up because they work in the "service industry", and that they should just donate their time and lives to "Grow the Game".

 

Donate their life and time? It is called a job and you are getting paid to provide a service if you do not like it or want to provide said service, find another line of work.

[kevina001]

Of course it is up to the golf course to decide when carts must be in at the end of the day. I happen to think it is a crappy course that demands that the carts be in before dark. And courses with policies like this will be the ones that are closing and going out of business because they are more worried about their cart boy getting home in time to watch The Voice than they are about customer service.

[CaseyC]

I sure hope anyone complaining about people getting paid to provide a service aren't posting from work....

[Moonlightgrm]

> @cardoustie said:

> I cannot believe people are supporting the course

> Here in Canada we have a 7 month season max. We pay the same rates as 12 month members in the USA. Big bucks IMO

> If I want to play till 9:30pm then the course can pay to have one employee stay ($15/hr) to put the last carts away. Have the back shop kids clean the four straggler carts the next morning if need be

> It's a SERVICE industry for crying out loud

> Mgmt is always trying to save a few bucks at the expense of members, nickel and diming sends members elsewhere

>

Exactly!

 

[Tocgolfer]

Use your own cart and then you can stay on course till the cows come home.

[Ferguson]

> @Roody said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > Speaking of "service employees" this whole thing reminds me of a thing that anyone whose working the restaurant business has encountered. If the place closes at 9pm there's always the guy who wants to walk in at 8:55 and gets indignant if he can't have a couple drinks, pore over the menu for a while and order a full meal once he gets around to it.

> >

> > Even at the lowest levels it's a thing. Back in high school I worked in McDonalds. Weeknights we'd close at 10pm (yeah, it was that long ago) and quite often people would show up and literally pound on the door at 10:30 or 10:45 wanting us to open up. Sometimes even if we walked over and pointed out the closing-time sign they would stand there and keep pounding, I guess figuring we'd eventually give in a set the kitchen back up to cook them a Big Mac.

>

> I think it's that some people have this notion that they're entitled to whatever they want.

>

> "Make me a bicycle, clown!"

 

 

You don't need to think it. It's all around us. It's a culture thing. If they want a diet coke, they will have a diet coke.

 

 

 

My wife and I call them the, "rules and hours don't apply to us crowd."

 

 

Speaking of clowns,

Clown walks into a bar and yells, "my nose smells."

[mesquite2]

For those posting about walking vs riding, I would say that 90 % of our players ride & now we are doing close to 500 rounds a day evenly spread on our 2 courses. We have 110 carts to rent & on a weekend we are down to only 15-20 carts left by 1:00 p.m.

[smashdn]

Surprised nobody has started griping about their course being closed on Mondays or aeration yet. "It's a service industry after all!"

[marmooskapaul]

> @Murphy76 said:

> Oh, and if you and the USGA want to "Grow the Game", why don't _you_ go sit around all night waiting for people to bring their carts in. Your altruism and chairity

 

Sounds like easy money to me...lol. The business world is full of 3rd shift, 2nd shift, swing shifts, split shifts and everything in between. It's part of the job. We do all of our golfing during the week, after 3:30 or 4:00 {pesky 1st shift job} It would be a deal breaker to bring carts in at 7:00 or earlier....we fought for daylight savings time and finally got it...golf till 9:30!! whoo

[North Butte]

Some clubs don't start tee times until 8:00am, even in the middle of June when it's light enough to play by 6:15 or so. Between that and requiring carts to be turned in by 8:00pm I'm surprised they don't just fold up and go bankrupt for lack of members. Oh the humanity!

[KAndyMan]

Course near my new home does this and it was the first time i had ever seen/heard of courses doing this. At first i couldnt understand it and wasnt super thrilled about it. After a few rounds walking at twilight, i kinda like it. Like clockwork about 7:45 the course becomes almost COMPLETELY empty and i have a little over an hour to myself out there. Its really nice (Though i almost stepped on a cottonmouth snake last time out right about dark.) That course also does have some ponds in middle of fairways that have sudden 2-3' drops and i could see some drunk b******s driving carts into them at dark getting seriously hurt and trying to sue the place. Im pretty sure the pond thing is what drives the early cart return there bc there are still guys around the pro shop after dark cleaning stuff up.

[jerebear21]

Ha! I paid for 31 days of service a month. Even in February! > @smashdn said:

> Surprised nobody has started griping about their course being closed on Mondays or aeration yet. "It's a service industry after all!"

 

 

[RainShadow]

> @tatertot said:

> Totally agree ... My FORMER course shut down the range at 6 in summer - their excuse was the range was to "warm up" and once the last tee time went off, there was no one left to warm up. **Reality was, employees wanted to collect the range balls and get out of there ASAP**.

 

Or, the place was trying to save money on the hourly staff.

I bought what I thought was a great deal summer pass 10 minutes from my house. Great layout. Unlimited range and golf after 9am. Problem is, they want the carts in a 1830, it's not a walkable course and it gets dark at 1930-2000. We're in the desert and they pick up the water coolers at 1700......and they start picking them up in reverse order!

I asked the guy if they hassled him about his hours.....yep.

[BiggErn]

> @smashdn said:

> Surprised nobody has started griping about their course being closed on Mondays or aeration yet. "It's a service industry after all!"

 

Kinda like advertising twilight rates to get people to play later then them griping when they don’t want you to play later.

[om18v]

Just a few random thoughts I had while reading this thread.

I play a lot of twilight rounds for less money than normal hours. 9 holes is great, sometimes maybe 14 or more. For me it just seems a common courtesy to return at a reasonable time. I don't want to be that guy that everyone is waiting for. The service industry argument can have some validity I guess based on the individuals sense of self importance. I would be curious to ask why a golf course is to be treated differently than any other business that has stated hours? On the other hand, if, and the big if is, when you pay full rate for a round should you have expectations of playing a full round. Yeah, I suppose that is fair and reasonable. But if the course is charging full rate, they should be expected to have a cut off for last tee time of the day. A time would be certainly set by the pro not the player. Are there courses that charge full rate for late tee time? I don't know. Not the tracks I play at least. This thread is similar to the fast/slow round threads. There will be no agreement that pleases everyone.

[BiggErn]

> @om18v said:

> Just a few random thoughts I had while reading this thread.

> I play a lot of twilight rounds for less money than normal hours. 9 holes is great, sometimes maybe 14 or more. For me it just seems a common courtesy to return at a reasonable time. I don't want to be that guy that everyone is waiting for. The service industry argument can have some validity I guess based on the individuals sense of self importance. I would be curious to ask why a golf course is to be treated differently than any other business that has stated hours? On the other hand, if, and the big if is, when you pay full rate for a round should you have expectations of playing a full round. Yeah, I suppose that is fair and reasonable. But if the course is charging full rate, they should be expected to have a cut off for last tee time of the day. A time would be certainly set by the pro not the player. Are there courses that charge full rate for late tee time? I don't know. Not the tracks I play at least. This thread is similar to the fast/slow round threads. There will be no agreement that pleases everyone.

 

When you get a discount on balls, clubs, apparel, or whatever do you expect and are willing to accept lesser quality?

[om18v]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @om18v said:

> > Just a few random thoughts I had while reading this thread.

> > I play a lot of twilight rounds for less money than normal hours. 9 holes is great, sometimes maybe 14 or more. For me it just seems a common courtesy to return at a reasonable time. I don't want to be that guy that everyone is waiting for. The service industry argument can have some validity I guess based on the individuals sense of self importance. I would be curious to ask why a golf course is to be treated differently than any other business that has stated hours? On the other hand, if, and the big if is, when you pay full rate for a round should you have expectations of playing a full round. Yeah, I suppose that is fair and reasonable. But if the course is charging full rate, they should be expected to have a cut off for last tee time of the day. A time would be certainly set by the pro not the player. Are there courses that charge full rate for late tee time? I don't know. Not the tracks I play at least. This thread is similar to the fast/slow round threads. There will be no agreement that pleases everyone.

>

> When you get a discount on balls, clubs, apparel, or whatever do you expect and are willing to accept lesser quality?

 

In the past 6 months I purchased on sale:

1. balls, previous version

2. clubs, previous release

3. shirts, previous season style

Not lesser quality but also not the same. They were all discounted for a reason. Kind of like twilight golf.

[BiggErn]

> @om18v said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @om18v said:

> > > Just a few random thoughts I had while reading this thread.

> > > I play a lot of twilight rounds for less money than normal hours. 9 holes is great, sometimes maybe 14 or more. For me it just seems a common courtesy to return at a reasonable time. I don't want to be that guy that everyone is waiting for. The service industry argument can have some validity I guess based on the individuals sense of self importance. I would be curious to ask why a golf course is to be treated differently than any other business that has stated hours? On the other hand, if, and the big if is, when you pay full rate for a round should you have expectations of playing a full round. Yeah, I suppose that is fair and reasonable. But if the course is charging full rate, they should be expected to have a cut off for last tee time of the day. A time would be certainly set by the pro not the player. Are there courses that charge full rate for late tee time? I don't know. Not the tracks I play at least. This thread is similar to the fast/slow round threads. There will be no agreement that pleases everyone.

> >

> > When you get a discount on balls, clubs, apparel, or whatever do you expect and are willing to accept lesser quality?

>

> In the past 6 months I purchased on sale:

> 1. balls, previous version

> 2. clubs, previous release

> 3. shirts, previous season style

> Not lesser quality but also not the same. They were all discounted for a reason. Kind of like twilight golf.

 

Yes because they want your money and will settle for less rather than noting.