Is Rickie Fowler the most overrated player on tour?

[mcputter]

This kind of reminds me of the most underrated thread a couple of years ago with Billy Casper getting all the love. If everybody says you're underrated- are you really underrated? If everybody says you're overrated- are you really overrated?

[Shilgy]

> @Lagavulin62 said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > I don’t see his talent getting overhyped either. He is in a way sort of the male version of Anna Kournikova for golf. Meaning the women love him, he’s attractive and has a great personality, is a good guy. Plus he also appeals to the men, very like able. All of that is A+ for marketing. It’s probably been a sacrifice to his game. But as another posted said, if he can win one major, all this talk will end.

> > >

> > > If you want to talk about a guy overrated strictly for his golf, my vote goes out to Ian Poulter. But that’s a whole different discussion.

> >

> > Poulter has won more than Fowler though......

>

>

> True. But Poulter has never won a major, and never will. I wonder though if he would have received as much hype had he been American? Sometimes I think Europeans who win on that tour are hyped too early? So it may not be his doing so much. Still it gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly. It will never happen. And I don’t really think that is a disappointment to his career. I sort of feel he overachieved. As much as I knock him for not winning a major, he is not even in the ballpark with guys like Westwood for not winning a major. Westie has absolutely no excuse. Even Darren Clarke managed to get one.

>

 

How does Poulter not winning a major shift anything to Fowler's favor lol? What major did Rickie win?

And yes, Poulter strikes me as an overachiever. A lot of his career rides on Ryder Cup success. But what are you listening to where it "gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly"? Is he ever in the conversation?

[fly787]

Fowler is a marketing machine. He is well spoken, complimentary of his fellow players, and is kind to fans and staff. Seems like a really decent guy. Overrated, I don't thinks so ... he will win a major or two, needs the right course and a good week. I personally like his chances in any British Open.

[Cincy_Ken]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > > I don’t see his talent getting overhyped either. He is in a way sort of the male version of Anna Kournikova for golf. Meaning the women love him, he’s attractive and has a great personality, is a good guy. Plus he also appeals to the men, very like able. All of that is A+ for marketing. It’s probably been a sacrifice to his game. But as another posted said, if he can win one major, all this talk will end.

> > > >

> > > > If you want to talk about a guy overrated strictly for his golf, my vote goes out to Ian Poulter. But that’s a whole different discussion.

> > >

> > > Poulter has won more than Fowler though......

> >

> >

> > True. But Poulter has never won a major, and never will. I wonder though if he would have received as much hype had he been American? Sometimes I think Europeans who win on that tour are hyped too early? So it may not be his doing so much. Still it gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly. It will never happen. And I don’t really think that is a disappointment to his career. I sort of feel he overachieved. As much as I knock him for not winning a major, he is not even in the ballpark with guys like Westwood for not winning a major. Westie has absolutely no excuse. Even Darren Clarke managed to get one.

> >

>

> How does Poulter not winning a major shift anything to Fowler's favor lol? What major did Rickie win?

> And yes, Poulter strikes me as an overachiever. A lot of his career rides on Ryder Cup success. But what are you listening to where it "gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly"? Is he ever in the conversation?

 

Poulter almost lost his tour card not too long ago. I have never heard anyone talk about Poulter in these conversations. He's well know because he's fiery and performs well against us in the Ryder Cup but I don't think anyone has picked the guy to win a big tournament.

[Lagavulin62]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > > I don’t see his talent getting overhyped either. He is in a way sort of the male version of Anna Kournikova for golf. Meaning the women love him, he’s attractive and has a great personality, is a good guy. Plus he also appeals to the men, very like able. All of that is A+ for marketing. It’s probably been a sacrifice to his game. But as another posted said, if he can win one major, all this talk will end.

> > > >

> > > > If you want to talk about a guy overrated strictly for his golf, my vote goes out to Ian Poulter. But that’s a whole different discussion.

> > >

> > > Poulter has won more than Fowler though......

> >

> >

> > True. But Poulter has never won a major, and never will. I wonder though if he would have received as much hype had he been American? Sometimes I think Europeans who win on that tour are hyped too early? So it may not be his doing so much. Still it gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly. It will never happen. And I don’t really think that is a disappointment to his career. I sort of feel he overachieved. As much as I knock him for not winning a major, he is not even in the ballpark with guys like Westwood for not winning a major. Westie has absolutely no excuse. Even Darren Clarke managed to get one.

> >

>

> How does Poulter not winning a major shift anything to Fowler's favor lol? What major did Rickie win?

> And yes, Poulter strikes me as an overachiever. A lot of his career rides on Ryder Cup success. But what are you listening to where it "gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly"? Is he ever in the conversation?

 

He is up on the leaderboard in majors from time to time and that’s where you hear it. But he collapses every time.

 

I never linked Rickie to Poulter in that way so maybe you’re confused with someone else or just misunderstood?

[new2g0lf]

I don't think he's most over rated, he's probably the most marketed golfer, but I don't think being a good brand ambassador equates to performance, plus Fowler is ranked 10 in FedEx points. I would say Speith is most over rated at this point, he's 72 in FedEx Cup points but gets more air time and hype than most of the guys in front of him not named Tiger.

[Shilgy]

> @Lagavulin62 said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > > > I don’t see his talent getting overhyped either. He is in a way sort of the male version of Anna Kournikova for golf. Meaning the women love him, he’s attractive and has a great personality, is a good guy. Plus he also appeals to the men, very like able. All of that is A+ for marketing. It’s probably been a sacrifice to his game. But as another posted said, if he can win one major, all this talk will end.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you want to talk about a guy overrated strictly for his golf, my vote goes out to Ian Poulter. But that’s a whole different discussion.

> > > >

> > > > Poulter has won more than Fowler though......

> > >

> > >

> > > True. But Poulter has never won a major, and never will. I wonder though if he would have received as much hype had he been American? Sometimes I think Europeans who win on that tour are hyped too early? So it may not be his doing so much. Still it gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly. It will never happen. And I don’t really think that is a disappointment to his career. I sort of feel he overachieved. As much as I knock him for not winning a major, he is not even in the ballpark with guys like Westwood for not winning a major. Westie has absolutely no excuse. Even Darren Clarke managed to get one.

> > >

> >

> > How does Poulter not winning a major shift anything to Fowler's favor lol? What major did Rickie win?

> > And yes, Poulter strikes me as an overachiever. A lot of his career rides on Ryder Cup success. But what are you listening to where it "gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly"? Is he ever in the conversation?

>

> He is up on the leaderboard in majors from time to time and that’s where you hear it. But he collapses every time.

>

> I never linked Rickie to Poulter in that way so maybe you’re confused with someone else or just misunderstood?

 

Perhaps I misunderstood-but easy(at least for me) to see why.....

 

I posted:

Poulter has won more than Fowler though.

 

The first line of your response was:

True. But Poulter has never won a major, and never will.

 

So unless your meaning was that Fowler still "can" win a major and you do not believe Poulter is able what else was I to take from your post?

[Lagavulin62]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > > > > I don’t see his talent getting overhyped either. He is in a way sort of the male version of Anna Kournikova for golf. Meaning the women love him, he’s attractive and has a great personality, is a good guy. Plus he also appeals to the men, very like able. All of that is A+ for marketing. It’s probably been a sacrifice to his game. But as another posted said, if he can win one major, all this talk will end.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you want to talk about a guy overrated strictly for his golf, my vote goes out to Ian Poulter. But that’s a whole different discussion.

> > > > >

> > > > > Poulter has won more than Fowler though......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > True. But Poulter has never won a major, and never will. I wonder though if he would have received as much hype had he been American? Sometimes I think Europeans who win on that tour are hyped too early? So it may not be his doing so much. Still it gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly. It will never happen. And I don’t really think that is a disappointment to his career. I sort of feel he overachieved. As much as I knock him for not winning a major, he is not even in the ballpark with guys like Westwood for not winning a major. Westie has absolutely no excuse. Even Darren Clarke managed to get one.

> > > >

> > >

> > > How does Poulter not winning a major shift anything to Fowler's favor lol? What major did Rickie win?

> > > And yes, Poulter strikes me as an overachiever. A lot of his career rides on Ryder Cup success. But what are you listening to where it "gets very old hearing all the talk of him winning a major possibly"? Is he ever in the conversation?

> >

> > He is up on the leaderboard in majors from time to time and that’s where you hear it. But he collapses every time.

> >

> > I never linked Rickie to Poulter in that way so maybe you’re confused with someone else or just misunderstood?

>

 

> So unless your meaning was that Fowler still "can" win a major and you do not believe Poulter is able what else was I to take from your post?

 

That is what I meant. If Poulter was young like Rickie I may not rule him out yet. But I just don’t think he has the mental fortitude to get it done. Again I don’t think he has anything to be ashamed of. The only connection I made about not winning a major in that sense was with Westwood. And by that I was only saying Poulter NOT winning a major is not the same as Westwood not winning one. Two different animals in my opinion.

 

Rickie on the other hand has time and I feel he comes from better stock so to speak. I hope he gets one. He may end up like Sergio and have to wait. Hope not.

 

 

 

 

[0351Duffer]

Ricky has some time to win that Major. His career arch might be like a certain Spanish player who didn't win his first (and only) major until he was in his late thirties. Ricky is also a better ambassador for golf by far than the previously mentioned Spanish player.

[Vindog]

There is definitely one knock on Rickie's game, and that is the fact that he pushes a lot of rounds into the 80's. I haven't run stats or anything, but it seems more so than the other top players.

[tsecor]

in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

[vinprun71]

Rickie seems to be one of those players who has a strong Thursday and then it slowly declines day over day. It's a shame, because the talent is there to win a major (maybe more than one), but he seems to just fizzle after the first round.

[Cincy_Ken]

> @tsecor said:

> in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

 

He's ranked 14th in the world last I saw. 11% top 3 seems pretty good for that level player. If he won 1/3 of the tournaments (not accounting for ties) that you finished in the top 3 that would put your win percentage just below 4% which would be 1 win per 25 events. So to me it seems like he's not closing his fair share. 1 win per 25 events would be around one win a year and his career average is one win every other year.

 

 

[tsecor]

Bubba Watson is 10% in top 3's, 20% in the top 10 and 40% in top 25's with a 4% win %. He makes 72% of the cuts. Fowler wins 2% of the tournaments he plays. Bubba is 4%. Similar overall stats but Bubba closes more than Fowler. > @Cincy_Ken said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

>

> He's ranked 14th in the world last I saw. 11% top 3 seems pretty good for that level player. If he won 1/3 of the tournaments (not accounting for ties) that you finished in the top 3 that would put your win percentage just below 4% which would be 1 win per 25 events. So to me it seems like he's not closing his fair share. 1 win per 25 events would be around one win a year and his career average is one win every other year.

>

>

 

 

[Cincy_Ken]

> @tsecor said:

> Bubba Watson is 10% in top 3's, 20% in the top 10 and 40% in top 25's with a 4% win %. He makes 72% of the cuts. Fowler wins 2% of the tournaments he plays. Bubba is 4%. Similar overall stats but Bubba closes more than Fowler. > @Cincy_Ken said:

> > > @tsecor said:

> > > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

> >

> > He's ranked 14th in the world last I saw. 11% top 3 seems pretty good for that level player. If he won 1/3 of the tournaments (not accounting for ties) that you finished in the top 3 that would put your win percentage just below 4% which would be 1 win per 25 events. So to me it seems like he's not closing his fair share. 1 win per 25 events would be around one win a year and his career average is one win every other year.

> >

> >

>

>

 

Yeah, that seems right. They seem like similar level players. Bubba is more streaky though and has had multiple win years and obviously two Masters titles.

[Shilgy]

> @tsecor said:

> in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

 

Interesting stat.

Rose 11.34%

DJ 16.47%

Rory 17.18%

Phil 17.56%

Koepka 17.64%

Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)

Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

[tsecor]

tiger is still at 36% win %? what was it before he left the tour to rehab?> @Shilgy said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

>

> Interesting stat.

> Rose 11.34%

> DJ 16.47%

> Rory 17.18%

> Phil 17.56%

> Koepka 17.64%

> Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)

> Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

 

 

[bscinstnct]

> @tsecor said:

> tiger is still at 36% win %? what was it before he left the tour to rehab?> @Shilgy said:

> > > @tsecor said:

> > > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

> >

> > Interesting stat.

> > Rose 11.34%

> > DJ 16.47%

> > Rory 17.18%

> > Phil 17.56%

> > Koepka 17.64%

> > Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)

> > Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

>

>

 

When I saw 36%, I thought, no way, not still.

 

So, here is all I could find on TW total pga tour starts and wins.

 

We know TW has 81 pga tour wins. The closest I can find to how many starts he had is this link which shows he had 334. But the link only shows 79 wins so I assume it’s not fully updated. But it’s close.

 

Per this link (like to see fully updated info), TW has,

 

79 wins, 334 starts, 292 cuts made, 210 top 10s.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/golf/tiger-woods-player-stats

 

This equates to,

 

A 24% win rate.

 

87% cuts made rate.

 

63% top 10 rate.

 

Also, TW had won 15 of the 82 majors he had played.

 

18%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steele47]

Well at least he's rated.

[straightshot7]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @chigolfer1 said:

> > He doesn't win nearly enough but from a pure performance standpoint, big no. He's been in or just outside top 10 for six straight years. He's sort of a consistent, money making, non-winning machine.

> > End of year OWGR:

> > Current 14

> > 2018 11

> > 2017 7

> > 2016 12

> > 2015 6

> > 2014 10

>

> He's the modern day Fred Couples. Although, Couples did win a major and was ranked #1 for a little while before the back went out. But overall, Rickie is basically Fred Couples. A lot of people like him, seems popular, plays well most of the time, but doesn't seal the deal in the majors.

 

 

 

[grm24]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > tiger is still at 36% win %? what was it before he left the tour to rehab?> @Shilgy said:

> > > > @tsecor said:

> > > > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

> > >

> > > Interesting stat.

> > > Rose 11.34%

> > > DJ 16.47%

> > > Rory 17.18%

> > > Phil 17.56%

> > > Koepka 17.64%

> > > Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)

> > > Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

> >

> >

>

> When I saw 36%, I thought, no way, not still.

>

> So, here is all I could find on TW total pga tour starts and wins.

>

> We know TW has 81 pga tour wins. The closest I can find to how many starts he had is this link which shows he had 334. But the link only shows 79 wins so I assume it’s not fully updated. But it’s close.

>

> Per this link (like to see fully updated info), TW has,

>

> 79 wins, 334 starts, 292 cuts made, 210 top 10s.

>

> https://www.foxsports.com/golf/tiger-woods-player-stats

>

> This equates to,

>

> A 24% win rate.

>

> 87% cuts made rate.

>

> 63% top 10 rate.

>

> Also, TW had won 15 of the 82 majors he had played.

>

> 18%

>

It's not winning percentage. The numbers that Shilgy provided are the percentages of top 3 finishes for those players. Tiger in 355 events on PGA Tour, including 11 as an amateur, has 131 top 3 finishes (81/31/19). 131/355 = 36.9%

 

 

[Shilgy]

^^Thank you. Why would anyone go anywhere but the tour website for that info?

 

Edited to add... Yes that is top 3 percentage.... Which is what the discussion had turned into.

The "newer" site where we only see the latest post replied to really messes up those that just jump to the end of a thread.

[lowheel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

>

> Interesting stat.

> Rose 11.34%

> DJ 16.47%

> Rory 17.18%

> Phil 17.56%

> Koepka 17.64%

> **Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)**

> Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

 

Couldnt help yourself... lol you could put that next to tigers name as well. Hope youre doing well!

[tsecor]

here is Tigers stats from the official PGA site [https://pgatour.com/players/player.08793.tiger-woods.html](https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.08793.tiger-woods.html "https://pgatour.com/players/player.08793.tiger-woods.html")> He has a 22% win rate. 91% rate of made cuts. I cant believe he has only won $118 million on tour....what a slacker.....@bscinstnct said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > tiger is still at 36% win %? what was it before he left the tour to rehab?> @Shilgy said:

> > > > @tsecor said:

> > > > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

> > >

> > > Interesting stat.

> > > Rose 11.34%

> > > DJ 16.47%

> > > Rory 17.18%

> > > Phil 17.56%

> > > Koepka 17.64%

> > > Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)

> > > Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

> >

> >

>

> When I saw 36%, I thought, no way, not still.

>

> So, here is all I could find on TW total pga tour starts and wins.

>

> We know TW has 81 pga tour wins. The closest I can find to how many starts he had is this link which shows he had 334. But the link only shows 79 wins so I assume it’s not fully updated. But it’s close.

>

> Per this link (like to see fully updated info), TW has,

>

> 79 wins, 334 starts, 292 cuts made, 210 top 10s.

>

> https://www.foxsports.com/golf/tiger-woods-player-stats

>

> This equates to,

>

> A 24% win rate.

>

> 87% cuts made rate.

>

> 63% top 10 rate.

>

> Also, TW had won 15 of the 82 majors he had played.

>

> 18%

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

[Shilgy]

> @lowheel said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @tsecor said:

> > > in 10 years, he has played 230 events. Makes the cut 80% of the time but is only in the top 3 11% of the time. He does not give himself a lot of opportunity to win. His sweet spot is in the top 25 where he finishes 50% of the time.

> >

> > Interesting stat.

> > Rose 11.34%

> > DJ 16.47%

> > Rory 17.18%

> > Phil 17.56%

> > Koepka 17.64%

> > **Spieth 18.45% (and dropping)**

> > Woods 36.90% -fun fact-at least to me it was in looking these up-Woods has only played 10 more PGA tour events than has Justin Rose....and 71 more wins.

>

> Couldnt help yourself... lol you could put that next to tigers name as well. Hope youre doing well!

 

OK-Tiger is 14.81% last season and this. And no/yes you're correct. I just had to put that on Spieth's number. It is true though(and about Tiger as well)

[gunmetal]

Someone make sure and forward this thread to Rick. He's due for a nice one.

[gunmetal]

> @bladehunter said:

> Probably Cam champ or Rory if I’m voting as far as overrated goes. More airtime for less output. Spieth gets alt of airtime. But it’s to run down. And tell why he won’t win. They are always telling us why Rory will win. And then another major goes and nothing. And champ. Is he even playing anymore ?

 

What a bipolar post ;) So correct with Cam Champ, and such a whiff with the guy who would be in the Hall of Fame if his career ended today. Rory gets airtime because he's a proven commodity. If you want to tell me he's one of the streakiest golfers ever, I'm good with that.

It is beyond hilarious at how much the PGA tour, Golf Channel, and all major golf outlets are trying to force Cam Champ on us. I feel bad for the kid. He hits it a mile, has a great name, and won an event in Mississippi - therefore he's the next Tiger Woods. Let's pump the brakes.

[DownZaMiddle]

most over-rated "athlete" in any sport EVER

1) 3-9-5 Ryder Cup record

2) 1 win in 5 years (in a diluted field)

3) COLLAPSED on Sunday with US Open 2023 lead after 3 rounds

4) makes zillions of sponsorship $$

 

Fans (and sponsors) need to get wise and stop being anamored with this guy

 

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, DownZaMiddle said:

most over-rated "athlete" in any sport EVER

1) 3-9-5 Ryder Cup record

2) 1 win in 5 years (in a diluted field)

3) COLLAPSED on Sunday with US Open 2023 lead after 3 rounds

4) makes zillions of sponsorship $$

 

Fans (and sponsors) need to get wise and stop being anamored with this guy

 

Joined an hour ago and first post is resurrecting a 4 year old thread. Thats gotta b some kinda record!

🤣

[getair23]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:55 PM, TiScape said:

Joined an hour ago and first post is resurrecting a 4 year old thread. Thats gotta b some kinda record!

🤣

More out of left field than DownZaMiddle.