How to add Width and be on Plane

[97speedster]

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[TIM929]

Awesome post OP. I’m in the middle of a series of lessons with my local Pro and this is what my last lesson was on. From P2 to P4 it’s all body rotation and wrist Hinge only. There is no arm lift feel at all, but on camera the arms are high but not even close to an over run. Dan actually taught this to me in a online lesson but I didn’t understand how to do it properly.

 

P4 to P5 is where the hard part is for me, I’m suppose to feel like I’m leaving my hands at the same spot at the top (keeping my right arm slightly bent), then at the beginning of the squat of the lower body/ turn(shallow) the shaft perpendicular to the ball and target line. I’m holding the width in transition too.

 

Then, rip it to P8.

 

I gained a lot of distance while doing this and my swing looks 100% different then before.

 

Transferring this to the course is not easy but I’m going to keep working on it. I’m really glad you brought this up as it helps validate what I’m currently working on.

[Cpr3584]

Great information here. I too have played my best golf with a wide backswing. When I try to get back to it, I sometimes feel like I get too wide and the club bottoms out behind the ball. Could this be caused by a bad weight shift or other swing flaw? Like many amateurs, my downswing starts with "All Arms". When my timing is right, I can play some decent golf. When its not, its...you know. Michael Breed has said many times that if you are wide in the backswing its impossible to start down with the arms. Looks like I found something great to work on. I will look into the training aid as well.

[TIM929]

> @Cpr3584 said:

> Great information here. I too have played my best golf with a wide backswing. When I try to get back to it, I sometimes feel like I get too wide and the club bottoms out behind the ball. Could this be caused by a bad weight shift or other swing flaw? Like many amateurs, my downswing starts with "All Arms". When my timing is right, I can play some decent golf. When its not, its...you know. Michael Breed has said many times that if you are wide in the backswing its impossible to start down with the arms. Looks like I found something great to work on. I will look into the training aid as well.

 

My coach said from the top, right elbow forward while keeping the width in the right arm will turn ball contact from fat to thin and practice to adjust from there. Pulling the handle will cause fat to chunking it.

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[TIM929]

> @97speedster said:

> > @TIM929 said:

> > Awesome post OP. I’m in the middle of a series of lessons with my local Pro and this is what my last lesson was on. From P2 to P4 it’s all body rotation and wrist Hinge only. There is no arm lift feel at all, but on camera the arms are high but not even close to an over run. Dan actually taught this to me in a online lesson but I didn’t understand how to do it properly.

> >

> > P4 to P5 is where the hard part is for me, I’m suppose to feel like I’m leaving my hands at the same spot at the top (keeping my right arm slightly bent), then at the beginning of the squat of the lower body/ turn(shallow) the shaft perpendicular to the ball and target line. I’m holding the width in transition too.

> >

> > Then, rip it to P8.

> >

> > I gained a lot of distance while doing this and my swing looks 100% different then before.

> >

> > Transferring this to the course is not easy but I’m going to keep working on it. I’m really glad you brought this up as it helps validate what I’m currently working on.

>

> Thanks for sharing. Transferring to the course can take some time, but can't be forced nor though about too much. It will happen over time. I compete a lot and I don't play well thinking about positions in my swing, I play my best focusing on only my target. When I'm on the course I literally stand behind the ball picking out my target, visualizing my shot shape, then my final thought before walking into the ball to take my address is picking out an intermediate target a few feet in front of my ball. Once I take my address I make a single one-piece waggle while looking at my target, and as soon as my eyes get back to the ball I feel like I still see the target in my minds eye, then I slightly c@ck my head to the right (like Jack Nicklaus) and I go. This is something I have done for 25 years to keep my mind where it needs to be; on the target!

 

Thank you.. ever since the lessons, all I’ve been thinking about is P2,4,5 and 8 on the course .. this puts me back into perspective. I had a similar Pre shot routine and was target focused before, but now I’m rehearsing what I’m working on at the range before every shot.. I will just let it go moving forward and play with the swing I came with that day.

:smile:

[97speedster]

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[TIM929]

> @97speedster said:

> @TIM929 It's tough to play good golf thinking about your swing OR your score. I stopped thinking about my swing while on the golf course back in 1997 when I was a pro. I was playing some of the best golf of my life, but wasn't shooting the scores I felt like I should be based on how good I was hitting it and then I read a book called "Be the Target" by Byron Huff.

>

> Literally the week that I got done with the book I shot 60 (Par 72) on my home course in a big money game ($500 which was a lot for me as a mini tour player at the time) and I beat Paul Azinger's course record by 3 shots, it still stands today 22 years later. I teed off on the back 9 and in the middle of the round I had 9 birdies in a row and had no idea how I stood because all my mind was focused on that day was the target, not the outcome. I kept those thoughts going and then won by 5 shots on the Golden Bear Tour in my next tournament by shooting 69-66-67 (14 under) at the The Loxahatchee Club in Jupiter, Florida which is a very good Jack Nicklaus signature design. The only difference in my game was my focus on the target, not my golf swing or my score!

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WOW! Thank you so much for the wisdom and sharing. OMGoodness, look at that scorecard, I’ve never seen that type of play on a real score card ever in my life. It’s shocking and very humbling.

 

ordering the book on amazon right now!

[gsea33]

Do you need a wide stance to create width? I have probably a narrower than normal stance but seem to get plenty of width. Back to target and a lot of "restriction" between hips and shoulders. The down swing just seems to unload from there for me. Don't know if that makes sense but if I try a wider stance my hips seem really restricted. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[wmblake2000]

> @97speedster said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > > @jbw749 said:

> > > > @mikpga said:

> > > > Keep your trail arm straighter longer...

> > > > I believe DC has mentioned that a few times here...

> > >

> > > The OP's epiphany reminds me of hstead's after working with DC. It does seem like the OP found something that will stick though. There's got to be 20 threads on this subject. I worked on this for 2 years including 6 months of slow mo mirror work. I can't feel the throw on the downswing unless my right arm is a little soft on the backswing. It doesn't mean I won't explore it again though.

> > >

> >

> > I’ve been spending some time looking into athletic motion golf’s content (inexpensive membership). They have a slightly different emphasis - more on pushing arms away from torso at top than trail arm straight going back, and then almost exactly the same idea as 97speedster in how shoulder/arm relate and how pressure shift happens. Their way of framing backswing is lead arm angle with chest (roughly 90* at address) doesn’t shrink (aka do not swing sideways, pinning against shoulders) until maybe a little at the top. Meanwhile a lot of focus on shoulder/scapula turn/retraction especially r shoulder creating the depth of the hands/head (and not r arm collapse). One of their key points is from the top there just isn’t a lot of time to do much. All of this 97 says more clearly than I am.

> >

> >

> I'm not familiar with AMG, but you are the second person I have heard mention that on this thread. To me, keeping the trail arm straighter for as long as you can is very important in setting up the backswing and it must start in the takeaway so you are not out of position when you get to the top of the backswing. Sequencing is one of THE most important things in the golf swing and the right arm plays a big role in setting up the sequencing; at least for me it does.

>

 

That probably was me that mentioned amg in earlier post - they are the people who made the light bulb go off for me on the core things you are describing. I don’t think they would disagree with you about trail arm but I haven’t seen it as a point of emphasis.

 

[PJ1120]

D.J..........I met Callahan's father at a charity golf event in Wyoming about 20 years ago. I think it was called The Spring Fling. He owned a course in Chicago if I recall.

[97speedster]

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[gsea33]

Thanks speedster

I will try to get you the info tomorrow. Maybe a video too if I can work up the courage to post it lol.

[DonRSD]

@97speedster what kind of grip do you use? I am weak/neutral with my grip and that may be what is messing up my swing aka can’t get shaft lean and flip.

[jc4birdie]

Speedster, do you use “inside heels=outside shoulders” for stance width as a general guideline? I’m pretty broad shouldered,& I sometimes think I may be a bit wide of stance to optimize my turn.

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[jc4birdie]

Speedster, can you define setting the Right Angle on “half”? Mine is on its way, and the video I saw spoke of setting it on “90”. Is that the half setting you speak of? Right arm collapse is my old bugaboo, and rears its ugly head occasionally still. Readying to eradicate it for good! Thanks for alerting me to this aide.

[97speedster]

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[DonRSD]

> @97speedster said:

> > @jc4birdie said:

> > Speedster, can you define setting the Right Angle on “half”? Mine is on its way, and the video I saw spoke of setting it on “90”. Is that the half setting you speak of? Right arm collapse is my old bugaboo, and rears its ugly head occasionally still. Readying to eradicate it for good! Thanks for alerting me to this aide.

>

> No, half is 45*, but it comes on the setting you want then just keep it there and turn the clicker off. Once you have it on your arm, the clicker is turned off by loosing the bottom nut and twisting the clicker 180* and re-tightening the nut. It will be easier to understand once you get the training aid and can see what I mean.

 

I find that my backswing is so much better after using the RA2. Its not grooved yet, but its better.

I also find that the RA2 basically forces me to take a higher backswing, as opposed to "around" me.

 

Still need to go to the range and use it for a bucket of balls, as I only use it in my living room with a practice club that is lying around.

 

Good trainer @97speedster

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[commoditybroker]

So excited to get my RA2. It's on the way, and I'll post feedback once I get it on. Also planning on doing the med ball drills you recommend DJ.

 

Any other off course practice routines or drills you recommend?

[Nard_S]

OP, really impressed with the thoroughness of effort on this stuff. Have at it.

[gsea33]

Ok Speedster here are some stills. Did it real quick in the backyard with my 12 year old as the camera man. 36 inch waist. Inside left heel to right 14-15 inches. Hate the camera lol. Didn't realize how bald I'm getting and how bad the extra 10lbs I put on over the winter looks.

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[commoditybroker]

> @97speedster said:

> > @commoditybroker said:

> > So excited to get my RA2. It's on the way, and I'll post feedback once I get it on. Also planning on doing the med ball drills you recommend DJ.

> >

> > Any other off course practice routines or drills you recommend?

>

> I think the medicine ball is a great way to isolate the body and learn how to move it correctly without the distraction of the club and it will build the right muscles if you do it regular. If you combine learning the right technique with a medicine ball, the Eyelenine impact cube for shaft lean, and then throw in SuperSpeed Golf Training System, you can really make dramatic improvements in how far you hit the ball. Those are all things I have done this year and my swing speed is up 8 mph. I can't say what has benefited me more, but the combination has done wonders for getting my clubhead speed up to where it was 6 years ago before I snapped my left I.T. Band and tore my glute.

 

Thank you! I'll focus on all of those