PIN IN or PIN OUT??

[chrisgilly09]

In, on breaking putts it’s hitting the flagstick in the center of the hole and hopefully you speed is good enough for the ball to stay in. my contention is a ball could be going sideways enough to hit the lower lip or spin out a weird way if there is no flagstick, that extra 2” of travel could affect where the ball hits the cup maybe? Not a scientist

[ArtMBgolf]

I have played a lot with it in, to see what happens. So far I have seen 2 putts of others, that we agree

would have been in with no flag, bounce off. I have not seen any long putts that were too hard get saved.

Realize that we seldom hit a putt way too hard and have it roll over the hole, so the save %% will be near zero.

I feel that the pin in makes it harder to read short putts, but that will depend on your vision.

And on tour, the hole edges are perfect, so banging off the pin, the ball has a crisp hole to catch it.

If the hole edges are no so good on our courses, the ball can bang off the pin easier.

[ThinkingPlus]

Out or tended always. My speed control is good so having the pin in will always hurt my results more than having it out.

[jdl]

> @clutchfan said:

> Pull it if shadow is moving distracting or wind blowing flag/ pin around on shorter putts, otherwise happy to leave it in.

 

Same here. And if someone wants it out, that's fine, too.

Then there's my league partner, who leaves it in all the time. But in order to extract his putt once he's holed out, he yanks out the the flagstick. Which usually means the ball pops up, then back into the hole and then he has to pick it out. Then he puts the flag back in, even though I've told him once he takes it out, just leave it out. Sigh.

[lilimprovements]

> @Qqq123xx said:

> I like it from distance. Shorter putts not so much.

 

Same here, usually if the shadow gets in the way too. But on the rare occasion the shadow even helps line up my putt :)

 

[Augster]

Come on mods. This has been talked about enough. Just a short scroll shows this.

 

 

Here is a 6-pager.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1776264/leaving-the-pin-in/p1

 

Here is a 16-pager

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1729156/2019-and-the-pin-is-in/p1

 

This one is 23 pages

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1760445/i-hate-the-leaving-the-flag-in-rule/p1

 

Moreover, it’s the middle of July. This has been in effect since 1/1. Old topic/old news as evidenced by the above threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carl Spackler3]

This year I have seen many hot putts hit the pin and drop in, I have seen ZERO instances of ricochet off the pin resulting in a miss. Just my observations

[lanzador49]

Out. Trying to jam a ball in a hole that's already small while there's a stick in it doesn't work for me. The guy I play with ALWAYS wants it in because he aims for it (so he says...and he's a good putter). I don't like it though. The hole is small enough! Take it out.

[RickK]

Personally, I am not a fan of this rule change. But, it is what it is. That said, I prefer the pin to be out. If I am a long way out, say 15 feet or more, on my first putt...you can leave it in, I really don't care. But when it comes to my next putt, unless it is a simple 6inch tap in...take it OUT for me. I know that since the first of the year, I have had 5 putts that I felt were going in that hit the stick and bounced off. That pretty much cinched it for me. All of these were early on in the year when I was trying to just leave it in. I don't recall where I ever think it helped me out by leaving it in the hole. I generally don't bang my putts very hard anyway. I mostly die the ball in/at the hole, or at least that is my intent.

What I don't like about this is playing in a group of 4 and you have to go thru take it OUT, put it back, take it out. Imagine the guy out in the fairway trying to shoot his yardage..."Make up your damn mind!"

[shortstop20]

I've left it in for every round this year. Only pull it if the flag is leaning toward the point where you want your ball to enter the hole. That's the only time I've seen it hurt.

[caniac6]

In on long ones. Out on short ones.

[Hanlpa01]

Always in. I need a backstop on fast greens.......

 

Seriously tho, in if I’m playing 9 after work by myself. Consensus of the group if I’m playing with others. Visually it doesn’t make a difference to me.

[ibradley]

I think that if everyone left the pin in all the time the game would be much faster. Faster is needed to keep golf from shrinking. For the good of the game leave the pin in. You quickly get used to it.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @ibradley said:

> I think that if everyone left the pin in all the time the game would be much faster. Faster is needed to keep golf from shrinking. For the good of the game leave the pin in. You quickly get used to it.

 

Last time I checked low score wins and faster is rarely better. For the good of my game I think I will take the pin out or have it tended when I really care about score which is most of the time.

[sui generis]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @ibradley said:

> > I think that if everyone left the pin in all the time the game would be much faster. Faster is needed to keep golf from shrinking. For the good of the game leave the pin in. You quickly get used to it.

>

> Last time I checked low score wins and faster is rarely better. For the good of my game I think I will take the pin out or have it tended when I really care about score which is most of the time.

 

And, isn't it lovely that you may play as you wish and so may others.

[dmecca2]

In tournament play ALWAYS out. I will have someone tend it if I cant see only because the pins we play are not the same as the pins on tour. Tour pins are more receptive and sit centered in the cup, where our local pins usually arent perfectly centered.

But in casual golf, leave that sucker in and play faster.

[North Butte]

There are certainly stupider things than pulling the flagstick out, done in the name of shooting lower scores. If I had to choose between seeing the flag pulled or seeing one guy in my group fiddle his alignment line before every putt I'd choose pulling the pin. Unfortunately, once in a while I get in a group with one of each or even the same guy who does both.

 

The gullibility and superstition of golfers never ceases to amaze but it's certainly nothing new. From the plumb-bobbers to the seam-aligners to the fancy low-friction tees to almost anything else you can imagine, there's somebody out there doing it at this very moment, convinced that they are saving strokes.

 

Millions of golfers do all that stuff who wouldn't think of spending an extra 20 minutes once a week in the practice bunker. Or sticking an alignment club on the ground before hitting range balls.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @ibradley said:

> > > I think that if everyone left the pin in all the time the game would be much faster. Faster is needed to keep golf from shrinking. For the good of the game leave the pin in. You quickly get used to it.

> >

> > Last time I checked low score wins and faster is rarely better. For the good of my game I think I will take the pin out or have it tended when I really care about score which is most of the time.

>

> And, isn't it lovely that you may play as you wish and so may others.

 

Not really. It was an ill-advised change to address PoP which only works if everyone leaves the pin in all the time. It leads to extra conflict just like you see in this thread. The perfect passive-aggressive ploy to coerce folks to keep the flag in.

[North Butte]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @ibradley said:

> > > > I think that if everyone left the pin in all the time the game would be much faster. Faster is needed to keep golf from shrinking. For the good of the game leave the pin in. You quickly get used to it.

> > >

> > > Last time I checked low score wins and faster is rarely better. For the good of my game I think I will take the pin out or have it tended when I really care about score which is most of the time.

> >

> > And, isn't it lovely that you may play as you wish and so may others.

>

> Not really. It was an ill-advised change to address PoP which only works if everyone leaves the pin in all the time. It leads to extra conflict just like you see in this thread. The perfect passive-aggressive ploy to coerce folks to keep the flag in.

 

???

 

Has anyone actually prevented you from pulling a flagstick out when you play? Where's the "coercion"?

 

If you want to keep wasting time pulling the pin, nobody that I've ever met is going to stop you. So why do you object to the Rules giving the other 90% of us the ability to leave it in when we play?

 

Yeah, it only saves time when somebody doesn't insist on pulling it out. But lots and lots of us play golf every day with everyone happily leaving it in. That's who the Rule was written for.

 

But not to worry. I don't think the Rules are going to change to forbid you from continuing to waste time however you see fit. Including the alignment line (which I'll venture a guess you also do).

[sui generis]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @ibradley said:

> > > > I think that if everyone left the pin in all the time the game would be much faster. Faster is needed to keep golf from shrinking. For the good of the game leave the pin in. You quickly get used to it.

> > >

> > > Last time I checked low score wins and faster is rarely better. For the good of my game I think I will take the pin out or have it tended when I really care about score which is most of the time.

> >

> > And, isn't it lovely that you may play as you wish and so may others.

>

> Not really. It was an ill-advised change to address PoP which only works if everyone leaves the pin in all the time. It leads to extra conflict just like you see in this thread. The perfect passive-aggressive ploy to coerce folks to keep the flag in.

 

"Extra conflict"? Only if you wish it to be so.

[Newby]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> It leads to extra conflict just like you see in this thread.

What conflict? I haven't seen any between inners and outers

 

[North Butte]

I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

 

That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

[dpb5031]

> @"North Butte" said:

> I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

>

> That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

 

Bad logic. It's really only faster if the entire foursome agrees to leave it in. Otherwise it's pretty much a wash.

[North Butte]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

> >

> > That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

>

> Bad logic. It's really only faster if the entire foursome agrees to leave it in. Otherwise it's pretty much a wash.

 

Right.

 

And my usual foursome all are fine leaving it in. So it saves some time. That's why we like the new OPTION.

 

Where's the bad logic in that?

 

Sure, a few slowpokes are still keeping some groups from saving any time by insisting on pulling the flag out. That doesn't mean the other 90% of us aren't better off with the OPTION.

 

It's like you're saying, "Bad rule. Doesn't save me any time because I still pull the flag like I always have". Talk about your non-logic...

[sui generis]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

> >

> > That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

>

> Bad logic. **It's really only faster if the entire foursome agrees to leave it in.** Otherwise it's pretty much a wash.

 

I suspect there's no data to support your conclusion.

 

 

[dpb5031]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

> > >

> > > That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

> >

> > Bad logic. **It's really only faster if the entire foursome agrees to leave it in.** Otherwise it's pretty much a wash.

>

> I suspect there's no data to support your conclusion.

>

>

 

So maybe you should conduct a study and let us all know for certain. I've got over 100 rounds in this year. I've seen no improvement on pace, but I have seen the edges of the hole all f'ed up from guys retrieving the ball without removing the flagstick.

[North Butte]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

> > > >

> > > > That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

> > >

> > > Bad logic. **It's really only faster if the entire foursome agrees to leave it in.** Otherwise it's pretty much a wash.

> >

> > I suspect there's no data to support your conclusion.

> >

> >

>

> So maybe you should conduct a study and let us all know for certain. I've got over 100 rounds in this year. I've seen no improvement on pace, but I have seen the edges of the hole all f'ed up from guys retrieving the ball without removing the flagstick.

 

I'm confused.

 

Do YOU leave the pin in when you putt? If so, then of course you haven't seen any improvement in pace. How could you, you're still pulling the pin like you always have?

[dpb5031]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > I love the argument that giving us an OPTION to play a little faster is "ill-advised" because it's only faster if we actually use the option.

> > >

> > > That's kind of like saying there shouldn't be a provisional ball rule since it only helps if you actually hit the provisional. Well, d'uh!

> >

> > Bad logic. It's really only faster if the entire foursome agrees to leave it in. Otherwise it's pretty much a wash.

>

> Right.

>

> And my usual foursome all are fine leaving it in. So it saves some time. That's why we like the new OPTION.

>

> Where's the bad logic in that?

>

> Sure, a few slowpokes are still keeping some groups from saving any time by insisting on pulling the flag out. That doesn't mean the other 90% of us aren't better off with the OPTION.

>

> It's like you're saying, "Bad rule. Doesn't save me any time because I still pull the flag like I always have". Talk about your non-logic...

 

...but that's not even remotely what I said or implied

[chippa13]

I always just go by whatever the folks I'm playing with want to do. I have never liked having someone tend the flag when I'm putting so I like that I can just tell them not to bother when they offer.

[North Butte]

> @chippa13 said:

> I always just go by whatever the folks I'm playing with want to do. I have never liked having someone tend the flag when I'm putting so I like that I can just tell them not to bother when they offer.

 

I also find "tend the pin" to be more distracting than either pulling it or leaving it. Glad to see that go the way of the stymie, the rut iron and the tweed golf jacket.