Crumpin Fox, anyone play lately that can attest to conditions?

[OrangeCrush]

C/F is on a very short list for me to take a road trip next week. Anyone played it recently to talk about the conditions.

 

Thanks

[raynorfan1]

I've played it half a dozen times this spring, most recently two weeks ago. The course is in damned near peak condition. They did a moderate amount of tree work over the winter, and the impact on the turf is definitely noticeable in some places.

 

They've redone a bunch of the cart paths, which helps the aesthetics, but has also prevented carts from tearing up some of the fragile fairway entrances.

 

All the rain this spring has also made the rough especially lush, which, honestly, has gotten a little out of control in some places. For example on the downhill par 5, (I think it's #5) there are "fingers" of rough that extend into the fairway, and those are basically playing like pot bunkers - you have to hit a wedge out to advance the ball. I don't think they're intended to be quite as penal as they're playing right now.

 

Bottom line, I've played there all my life (which is also the entire history of the course...), and this is as good condition as the course has ever been in.

[WBGolf]

Haven't played it since 2015 so I can't help you there. Groupon has some deals on greens fees and cart.

[OrangeCrush]

Awesome, thanks!

[shanempowell]

I'm a member at Crump and I've been playing multiple times a week since they opened. Conditions are what I'd consider an A- right now.

 

They've gotten lots of rain so there are a few soft spots but the grass is lush. As another person pointed out the rough is thick and sticky. There are areas that have been mowed and balls are still difficult to locate. Once found, even if the lie appears to be ok I suggest no more club than a 7i to try and advance the ball. And be careful in the right rough of #17. There was some turf damage done during tree removal in a soft area that they've been unable to remedy. Although you should get GUR relief from this area, since they haven't been able to mow a lost ball is highly likely.

 

Fairways are in top notch condition. Greens are rolling fast and very true and areas that were damaged by last year are beginning to fill in nicely.

 

If I had to name one area that could improve it would be areas areound the greens. There are a few greens where if you miss the green it is a roll of the dice in what type of lie you'll be facing. Thick rough, hard pan or some combination thereof. They've been working on this gradually and I've got no complaints considering the status of the rest of the course but it could use some work.

 

The tree removal looks great and this Winter I believe they'll remove even more trees. The sod work on #9 is coming in very nicely and the new paths are great.

 

Other non course condition items: brand new electric carts with GPS went into rotation last week, nice seats and USB ports. Also there are new mats on the driving range. While they're still mats they're the nicest mats that I've ever used with a rough cut and a place to use real tees.

 

Also I'm always looking to meet WRX members so hit me up if anyone needs to fill out a group at the Fox.

[OrangeCrush]

Excellent info, we had to book something closer for next friday but it's still on the radar for a summer round.

[WBGolf]

Got an e-mail yesterday. Friday Jun 30 and Saturday July 1. 18 w/ cart for $35 after 12! $50 before noon

[shanempowell]

I need to update my previous post. I realize the OP was looking to go weeks ago but in case some comes across this here is an update as of today.

 

Conditions are close to perfect. I had stated in previous post that some of the green complexes had some bare areas. This has been resolved in all the worst areas by sod work. Seams are still slightly visable but it looks great. They did numbers 15 & 16. The lie in these areas won't be easy but at least now you'll have a consistent lie and it will be a fair test.

 

For those of you who occasionally hit it astray they've cleared substantial areas into the tree line on many holes. This work continues so don't curse me if you lose one but if you look around you'll see areas that have been cleared.

 

 

[Imp]

My brother lives 20 min from the place. Golf was great. Food however... never again unless it's new ownership or cooks. We'll eat elsewhere.

 

Played a round with brother and friend a couple months ago (May) on a Sunday morning, finished up around 12. Ordered up some lunch and apps. Honey mustard wings weren't cooked through (happy I didn't get sick with a bite taken out of one). Brother and I put them back on the plate and informed the waitress nicely. She took them back.

 

A few min later they bring out the replacement wings. Ok, these look cooked more. Grab one and something looks a little off one of the others in the basket. And what I mean by a little off, is one of the drumsticks was one that we had taken a bite out of. They re-cooked the batch that was sent back, including the honey mustard glaze, and the previously eaten food.

 

Not the most hygienic way to handle things. Never mind re-processing eaten food, but also had dressing on it that went back into the fryer. If they don't care about that, who the **** knows what else they do.

 

--kC

[dcfas]

Waking up this thread to re-check on the condition presently. Planning on playing there tomorrow afternoon (Saturday). Any advice on course strategy?

[dcfas]

So, to reply to my own post above, what a great tract. Layout and design just fantastic. Greens quite challenging. Only issue was they were beat up pretty badly. As a side note the restaurant, Zeke’s, was great. They have a really nice deck area with “fire pits” set up and they had an acoustic band. After we completed our round we had dinner and the place was kicking with people. Had a great time; strongly recommend.

[raynorfan1]

So, to reply to my own post above, what a great tract. Layout and design just fantastic. Greens quite challenging. Only issue was they were beat up pretty badly. As a side note the restaurant, Zeke's, was great. They have a really nice deck area with "fire pits" set up and they had an acoustic band. After we completed our round we had dinner and the place was kicking with people. Had a great time; strongly recommend.

 

Crumpin Fox is definitely a borderline hidden gem. It's sort of the last of the RTJ-style courses, and suffers from being out of style. If the owners spent the same money but taken a shot on a young guy from the Pete Dye school (Doak, Hanse, et. al.) instead of the RTJ team (Rees, Rulewich, etc.) they'd be building another hotel and talking about the "third course" at Crumpin Fox...It's sort of an interesting business case / lesson on the market turning at just the wrong time.

 

Greens are in tough shape just about everywhere because of the summer we had (brutal drought until about July 15th...then constant heavy rain and heat).

[jdl]

Yeah, greens at Crumpin can be brutal if you find yourself out of position. Have had a number of 10' birdie putts there where I was just hoping to "save" par. Played it 2 years ago with a Groupon, probably the only way I'd play it again, just not worth the drive/cost IMO.

[dcfas]

Yeah, greens at Crumpin can be brutal if you find yourself out of position. Have had a number of 10' birdie putts there where I was just hoping to "save" par. Played it 2 years ago with a Groupon, probably the only way I'd play it again, just not worth the drive/cost IMO.

I’m not in the best of form right now, but I usually avoid having more than one or two 3-putts. Yesterday I had five. I also three putted this green (8th), after striping a 180 yard five iron over the water. That shot alone was worth the price of admission. Should have at least two-putted it.

[dcfas]

Approach view.

[jdl]

 

I'm not in the best of form right now, but I usually avoid having more than one or two 3-putts. Yesterday I had five. I also three putted this green (8th), after striping a 180 yard five iron over the water. That shot alone was worth the price of admission. Should have at least two-putted it.

 

That tee shot is pretty intimidating, too.

[raynorfan1]

CF is one of the three best public courses in the state, and probably top ~20 overall. The only knock is that it's a haul to get to...but so are Taconic and Farm Neck.

[jdl]

CF is one of the three best public courses in the state, and probably top ~20 overall. The only knock is that it's a haul to get to...but so are Taconic and Farm Neck.

 

Wouldn't be in my top 3, would much rather play the Ranch, Red Tail, Pinehills, Waverly, Crosswinds. As you noted above, probably as much about course style as anything else.

[raynorfan1]

CF is one of the three best public courses in the state, and probably top ~20 overall. The only knock is that it's a haul to get to...but so are Taconic and Farm Neck.

 

Wouldn't be in my top 3, would much rather play the Ranch, Red Tail, Pinehills, Waverly, Crosswinds. As you noted above, probably as much about course style as anything else.

 

I think there's a difference between "best" and "favorite" or "most enjoyable". I tend to agree that Crumpin Fox is not among my "favorite" courses...but I have a lot of respect for the course itself. Somewhere like Crosswinds or Pinehills really aren't that close from a design perspective...but I can understand having more 'fun' playing them.

[jdl]

CF is one of the three best public courses in the state, and probably top ~20 overall. The only knock is that it's a haul to get to...but so are Taconic and Farm Neck.

 

Wouldn't be in my top 3, would much rather play the Ranch, Red Tail, Pinehills, Waverly, Crosswinds. As you noted above, probably as much about course style as anything else.

 

I think there's a difference between "best" and "favorite" or "most enjoyable". I tend to agree that Crumpin Fox is not among my "favorite" courses...but I have a lot of respect for the course itself. Somewhere like Crosswinds or Pinehills really aren't that close from a design perspective...but I can understand having more 'fun' playing them.

 

Well, yeah..."best" is too vague of a term. Ranking them via someone's academic definition of architecture is fine, but meaningless to me. If it's top 3 when ranking according to architectural design significance, OK.

[OrangeCrush]

Whoa this thread brings back a memory I want to forget, 2 weeks after I posted it. I found out I fractured my L5 in my back and I had to quit golf for a year. I played my 1st round Mid July, had a mild set back so sat out another 6 weeks. Played 2 more times and did ok. Funny still shooting the same scores as when I left!

[Imp]

Played two rounds yesterday. Conditions are really fantastic and greens all rolling quick and straight.

 

Tree removal gained a lot more traction over the winter. Lots more space being opened between holes, assuming to let more air get through and light to get to the fairways and greens? Anything else? Between some holes, looks like enough room has started to be removed to put in additional holes? Are they going 27? Looked... interesting to say the least? Felt great having some breezes come through that used to just be stagnant air on some holes/tees. Also, making use of some of the views of the valley/hills too on some tee boxes, can actually SEE a view.

 

--KC

[raynorfan1]

But how were the wings?

[Imp]

:lol: Didn't get them this time around!

 

Oh, and the improvements around the green with some new sod and such have really taken hold. Course is playing fantastic.

[jdl]

Playing there Saturday, all I know is it's going to be freakin' hot!

[eastriver]

On 9/23/2018 at 4:51 AM, raynorfan1 said:

Crumpin Fox is definitely a borderline hidden gem. It's sort of the last of the RTJ-style courses, and suffers from being out of style. If the owners spent the same money but taken a shot on a young guy from the Pete Dye school (Doak, Hanse, et. al.) instead of the RTJ team (Rees, Rulewich, etc.) they'd be building another hotel and talking about the "third course" at Crumpin Fox...It's sort of an interesting business case / lesson on the market turning at just the wrong time.

 

This is an interesting take.  I've been playing there fairly often over the last 4 years and almost always have my a** handed to me by it.  I played there yesterday, and while I didn't play particularly poorly (for me, obviously), I still got destroyed.  My buddy and I talk a lot about what makes the course so difficult for us, and we both agree that the biggest factor is the  protected greens.  For us mid-cappers, even after a real good tee shot, it takes a GREAT approach shot to make a GIR.  Tough, tough, tough.  

 

Don't get me wrong... I appreciate the challenge and I'll keep going back for more, but I rarely leave there feeling less than abused.

 

I'm not an architecture aficionado, but I am a Fried Egg fan and have been made aware of the basics.  If you're still around, @raynorfan1 (or anyone else with thoughts on this!), could you say more about how the course's design affects its play (and enjoyment)?  Would you say it's a 'penal' design?

 

My only experience with modern design is a trip up to Cabot Links, but I've played several of the Ross courses in MA which are challenging for me in a more enjoyable way.  I'd be hard pressed to tell you why, though.  My current favorites right now are Okemo and The Ranch, which are also challenging yet totally enjoyable.

[Imp]

Most Ross courses, you have to play to the front of the green and either let it roll up or if you can, play to below the pin. If you are beside the pins, or behind with anything less than a tap in, good luck. (Some course greens are more sloped than others). 

 

CF? You have to know the greens themselves as they are sloped everywhichway and you can't just play to the front and let it roll on. Add on that a majority of the Ross courses don't have half the elevation changes that CF has, meaning you have quite a few elevated tees, and green complexes that are either above or below your approach with CF, meaning extra (or less) club. 

 

In a nutshell., Ross courses, for the most part, allow you to get to the green much easier from the tee. But once you're near them, you have to really think about how the ball will roll onto or settle on the green. CF,  most holes require some sort of navigation to or away from landmarks/trees... and after all that... many greens are segmented by slopes, and you have to be in/near the right segment to score lower, never mind should your ball roll off/away. ?

[raynorfan1]

Crumpin Fox is, in my view, a course in the "test of golf" category. Penal? Sure. The modern minimalist school of golf is more free flowing - shoot your shot, have "options", take your next shot. Hit a bad shot? You can recover with a good shot!

 

Crumpin Fox is like: there are two viable shots here. One is easier, one is harder. The harder one puts birdie in play, the easier one will get you to par if you do it well. Choose which one you want to take. Fail at either and expect a penalty of 0.5 - 1 stroke.

 

Very different styles, but both can be fun.

[eastriver]

oh man, great replies THANKS.  I very much get what you're saying.   At CF, just getting on the green is a real challenge and THEN if you're not positioned reasonably well, you can't count on a 2-putt.

 

And the lay-up vs go for it choices are usually clear, assuming you get off the tee into a decent position.  and it's not birdie vs par for me.  it's par vs bogey, with double and triple looming.

 

i think better understanding the penal nature of the course will help my approach to the course.  maybe not beat myself up so much and accept that it's just difficult, even when you're playing well.  and not have one bad hole spill over into the next, etc, etc...

[Chanceman]

Very interested in Raynorfan's comments. In MA which do you see as the "test of golf"/hard type courses and which are the "fun"/easy courses when talking about the main public courses:

Taconic, Crumpin Fox (obviously a Test), Red Tail, George Wright, Granite, The Ranch, Captains, Miacomet, Farm Neck, Pine Hills, Wachusett, Greenfield and the rest.