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ddetts' Swing Journey - 2020 Goals & Updated Swing Progress pg. 17


ddetts

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> @ebrasmus21 said:

> > @ddetts said:

> > Finally, after about 3 years I played an 18 hole round in the 70s again. Went +8/79 which was +2/38 front & +6/41 back. Heat index was like 105 today and I was walking & pushing, definitely got fatigued on the back.

> >

> > I've had a lot of 9 hole rounds where I shot +1-3 but just couldn't get a complete 18 holes done. It feels good to finally have that **** off my back. It was definitely a nice shot of confidence, especially because I wasn't hitting my irons great.

> >

> > Hoping I can carry some positive momentum forward.

>

> That’s awesome man. Hopefully now that you’ve popped the lid on 70s it’ll lead to many more.

 

Man I hope so, I tried to give it away on the last couple holes. Managed to hold on just enough.

 

Drove the ball pretty solid and putted really well. Had 29 putts, with 2 cruel lip outs. I guess it's always what could've been.

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> @"rich s" said:

> Congrats!!! Glad to hear it man :) Keep the train rolling in the right direction

 

Thanks Rich. I've shot 81 or 80 so many times over the last few years I think I was letting it mentally get to me. Especially when in the past I've shot as low as 75 and used to shoot high 70s pretty often.

 

Yesterday I would've graded my game as follows:

**Driving** as B+ (6/13 fairways, with a couple more just a yard or two off the fairway),

**Irons** as C- (6/18 greens)

**Pitching/chipping** C+ (something in my setup was a touch off and contact was out toward the toe and left a number of chips and pitches short)

**Putting** as A- (rolled it really nice all day, setup felt great, lines were good and speed was really good. Only negatives were two really long putts that I blasted past the hole 8-10')

 

Also, topped my drive on hole #1 (bogey) :D and had duck hooked long iron into water off the tee on #7 trying to "play smart". In hindsight, should've just blasted driver up the right as well as I hit driver all day.

 

Hoping to clean up the iron play a little, and really hoping to work on that putt stroke to keep the setup and feelings from yesterday ingrained.

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Congratulations! That is a big mental hurdle to clear. The next will be consistently challenging par.

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I'm on this mental game kick right now so I am curious. Did you know where your score was at towards the tail end of the round and if so, do you think that hurt you at all? I have found that the more I don't think about that and the more I just concentrate on the current shot (and stay positive) the lower my scores are. For me, I put breaking 80 on such a high pedestal that it became such a barrier to me. Had I learned this about my mental game a year ago, I would have been shooting 70's all the time.

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> @"rich s" said:

> I'm on this mental game kick right now so I am curious. Did you know where your score was at towards the tail end of the round and if so, do you think that hurt you at all? I have found that the more I don't think about that and the more I just concentrate on the current shot (and stay positive) the lower my scores are. For me, I put breaking 80 on such a high pedestal that it became such a barrier to me. Had I learned this about my mental game a year ago, I would have been shooting 70's all the time.

 

On the front 9 I was just sort of clipping along and knew I was playing pretty well. I was +2 then birdied 6 to go back to +1. I knew at the turn I was +2 and had a great chance to shoot in the 70s. Standing on 17 tee I was +4 and knew I had a little wiggle room. I think there was some pressure, but I like pressure. Here's how I finished.

**#17** 208 yards, pin back left tucked behind a bunker. It was 185 front to middle of the green, so I took a 5 iron to take long left miss out of play and played at the center. I ended up drawing it (almost everything had been a fade all day) and 5i wasn't enough to carry the bunker (about 200 carry) taking on the left. Hit a great bunker shot out of a deep bunker to 7 feet and lipped the putt for bogey.

**#18** 325 par 4 slight dogleg right with water starting at around 200 yards and up the right all the way to the green. Hit 3 iron a couple paces into the right rough, had 125 in yards in and into a breeze. Hit PW over the green (I was a little jacked). They had a red flag, which indicates front pin and influenced my choice of PW. When I got to the green, I definitely would've called it a middle pin and thus would've been happier to hit my 52° short and front of green. Putted from the back fringe and it got away to about 10 feet past. Got a teach from my playing partner and proceeded to block the putt right.

 

To answer your question, I think despite knowing where I stood I did a good job of staying focused on each shot. The last putt to save par from 10ish feet, pressure probably caused me to tense up and not release the putter head.

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So here's another "How would you play this hole?" post from me. I know this will be subjective to each players strengths and weaknesses as well as how they like to shape it. It's a par 4 360 yards on the scorecard & about 350 yards from the Silver tees to the center of the green on a straight line, about 310 to carry the water.

 

I'm beginning to think I have been playing this hole wrong. I typically hit a long iron (2-3-4 depending on wind and tee marker location) and try to stay just short of where the fairway pinches in (yellow line). That typically leaves a 9i or PW (blue line) depending on hole location and wind. The fairway does open back up and at 290 pretty much ends (red line) except for a small sliver. There's not really any trouble right except a few small trees but the rough can get thick depending on precipitation. Does potentially having lob or gap wedge into that green over a PW or 9i warrant taking driver out? At this point I know my proximity really isn't much better from 9i to LW (yes I need to get better with wedges) so I'm happy to play the safe shot and have a full swing in. If I pull/draw driver a little or happen to crush one that also brings in the chance of having like a 80-85 yard 'tweener shot with a wedge.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

ubra9gjq9w8b.jpg

 

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> @ddetts said:

> So here's another "How would you play this hole?" post from me. I know this will be subjective to each players strengths and weaknesses as well as how they like to shape it. It's a par 4 360 yards on the scorecard & about 350 yards from the Silver tees to the center of the green on a straight line, about 310 to carry the water.

>

> I'm beginning to think I have been playing this hole wrong. I typically hit a long iron (2-3-4 depending on wind and tee marker location) and try to stay just short of where the fairway pinches in (yellow line). That typically leaves a 9i or PW (blue line) depending on hole location and wind. The fairway does open back up and at 290 pretty much ends (red line) except for a small sliver. There's not really any trouble right except a few small trees but the rough can get thick depending on precipitation. Does potentially having lob or gap wedge into that green over a PW or 9i warrant taking driver out? At this point I know my proximity really isn't much better from 9i to LW (yes I need to get better with wedges) so I'm happy to play the safe shot and have a full swing in. If I pull/draw driver a little or happen to crush one that also brings in the chance of having like a 80-85 yard 'tweener shot with a wedge.

>

> What are your thoughts?

>

> ubra9gjq9w8b.jpg

>

 

For me driver would never be the play but I would run out of fairway. I'd likely hit some sort of long iron depending on wind direction as you say, and have Somewhere between 120-150 in, but my 3 iron goes ~240 off a tee. PW or 9 iron is still a scoring club and it should eliminate a big miss in the water (in theory anyways). Also should lead to being in the fairway more often which is even better for scoring. I don't see much reason to take it on unless you are feeling good with the driver.

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> @"rich s" said:

> 40yard fairway is HUGE, I am used to 20. We have a similar hole with OB left instead of water and much narrower fairway. I hit driver every time. If I did happen to hit it in the water, I am still confident I can get up and down. I will birdie that hole more times than I bogey it with driver.

 

Yes, 40 is pretty wide. Maybe for me, it's just all those years where pulls and pull draws were my usual miss that makes me reluctant to stand up there and RIP driver. It is a tough green with a lot of slope and some tricky plateaus they can place pins.

 

@"rich s" you must be a much better driver than I currently am!

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> @"rich s" said:

> 40yard fairway is HUGE, I am used to 20. We have a similar hole with OB left instead of water and much narrower fairway. I hit driver every time. If I did happen to hit it in the water, I am still confident I can get up and down. I will birdie that hole more times than I bogey it with driver.

 

This comment got me thinking, so I did a bit of searching. 40 yards is probably pretty close to norm for a typical course and "every day" setup.

 

[https://golftips.golfweek.com/average-fairway-width-pga-tour-20729.html](https://golftips.golfweek.com/average-fairway-width-pga-tour-20729.html "https://golftips.golfweek.com/average-fairway-width-pga-tour-20729.html")

 

**First interesting quote: "A typical American golf course’s fairways are 35 to 45 yards wide, according to Brauer. The course architect notes that scratch golfers will hit a 32-yard-wide fairway about two-thirds of the time, while 20-handicap golfers require a 40-yard-wide fairway to achieve a 66 percent success rate."**

 

I guess I should be able to hit the fairway in my pictured hole around 75% of the time given that a 20 handicap is expected to hit it 66% of the time. I still don't feel like hitting 58*/52* wedge instead of PW/9i offers up that much advantage (for my game specifically). If I were more dialed in with my wedges then I would say yes, and take driver often.

 

**Second interesting quote: "Typical PGA Tour fairways are 30 to 32 yards wide on average, according to golf course architect Jeffrey Brauer. But fairways usually are narrower for major championships, averaging as little as 24 yards wide. Oakmont Country Club, for example, has played host to many majors on the men’s and women’s tours. Oakmont’s average fairway width is usually 28 yards, although it was narrowed to 26 yards for the 2007 U.S. Open."**

 

20 yard fairway is narrower than a typical US Open setup! Your course must be tight and tough for driving.

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vmkftevfafwm.png

gqb7ik917f6o.png

I did some gps measuring on my phone. My home course has 30 yd fairways with a few 40 yd landing areas and 15 yard wide areas ahead of the landing areas. It is very well designed and takes full advantage of risk/reward. When I play other courses with wider fairways I almost feel like I don't know where to aim. Here are a couple examples

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@"rich s" definitely looks like there's some tight driving holes! I'd probably get pretty good at punching out of the trees on a course like that!

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> @ddetts said:

> @"rich s" definitely looks like there's some tight driving holes! I'd probably get pretty good at punching out of the trees on a course like that!

 

You have to be accurate and you have to shape the ball. You get REALLY good at punch shots. Funny story, I practiced all winter and I worked hard on punch shots. In doing so, I learned how to hit a stinger with my hybrid. It has become my goto shot on tight holes or windy days. If my driver is a little off, that shot is money for me. I hit it about 10' off the ground and it just runs like crazy. This course has 2 really elevated tee shots and firing into these narrow landing areas on windy days killed me last year a few times. Lawsonia (top 50) is about 10 minutes away and my course (mascoutin) is much harder but the slope does not have it that way. When we have state tournaments here its rare that more than one or two people break par. It is frustrating though when you are in a slump because it just punishes you. Definitely one of the hardest courses in this area. Not long but super tight. If you look on the pic of hole 2, you will see two huge oak trees that are close to touching. You have to fly it through that gap if you are going for that green in 2. If you are on the right side of the fairway you are basically dead. When people come visit I hear that alot, they are in the fairway and have no shot lol. If I go there tonight I will get a side shot of one of the greens, just crazy amounts of slope

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> @ddetts said:

> @"rich s" definitely looks like there's some tight driving holes! I'd probably get pretty good at punching out of the trees on a course like that!

 

https://clubproguy.com/blogs/media/my-10-rules-for-punching-out-sideways

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> @"rich s" said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @ddetts said:

> > > @"rich s" definitely looks like there's some tight driving holes! I'd probably get pretty good at punching out of the trees on a course like that!

> >

> > https://clubproguy.com/blogs/media/my-10-rules-for-punching-out-sideways

>

> Gold Jerry, GOLD!!!

 

CPG would never steer you wrong, I'm going to focus on #8 first followed by making sure I've got the shot for #7 down :D

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> @Hawkeye77 said:

> Keep at it!!!!

>

> Just measured our landing areas while watching Stenson miss birdie and eagle putts, lol.

>

> Anywhere from 20 yards for a few to 30ish for the most part. Kind of an eye-opener.

>

> Give me a 40 I'm sure I'm finding all sorts of ways to miss it.

 

@ my home course (Willow Run, not the course in the above example) I'd say 30 yards is pretty typical with some areas pinched in the more you take on and some more generous.

 

Long story short, I could definitely use to hit it a bit more accurate!

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> @ddetts said:

> > @"rich s" said:

> > > @Rohlio said:

> > > > @ddetts said:

> > > > @"rich s" definitely looks like there's some tight driving holes! I'd probably get pretty good at punching out of the trees on a course like that!

> > >

> > > https://clubproguy.com/blogs/media/my-10-rules-for-punching-out-sideways

> >

> > Gold Jerry, GOLD!!!

>

> CPG would never steer you wrong, I'm going to focus on #8 first followed by making sure I've got the shot for #7 down :D

 

Hilarious stuff from CPG

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> @ddetts said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > Keep at it!!!!

> >

> > Just measured our landing areas while watching Stenson miss birdie and eagle putts, lol.

> >

> > Anywhere from 20 yards for a few to 30ish for the most part. Kind of an eye-opener.

> >

> > Give me a 40 I'm sure I'm finding all sorts of ways to miss it.

>

> @ my home course (Willow Run, not the course in the above example) I'd say 30 yards is pretty typical with some areas pinched in the more you take on and some more generous.

>

> Long story short, I could definitely use to hit it a bit more accurate!

 

Out of curiosity, how do you play #13 at Willow? It sets up similar to the Bakker hole adding trouble right and some length.

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> @shanker128 said:

> > @ddetts said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > Keep at it!!!!

> > >

> > > Just measured our landing areas while watching Stenson miss birdie and eagle putts, lol.

> > >

> > > Anywhere from 20 yards for a few to 30ish for the most part. Kind of an eye-opener.

> > >

> > > Give me a 40 I'm sure I'm finding all sorts of ways to miss it.

> >

> > @ my home course (Willow Run, not the course in the above example) I'd say 30 yards is pretty typical with some areas pinched in the more you take on and some more generous.

> >

> > Long story short, I could definitely use to hit it a bit more accurate!

>

> Out of curiosity, how do you play #13 at Willow? It sets up similar to the Bakker hole adding trouble right and some length.

 

From the tips, it has to be driver for me unless it's really downwind. I'm not that long that I can hit less than driver on a 460 yard hole. Also seems like that hole is into the wind often.

 

From blue I'll hit 3w sometimes to keep from running through the fairway on the right. Also, if the pin is up front I'm more comfortable laying back to the fat part of the fairway as that takes 15 yards off the hole.

 

How do you approach it.

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> @ddetts said:

> > @shanker128 said:

> > > @ddetts said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > Keep at it!!!!

> > > >

> > > > Just measured our landing areas while watching Stenson miss birdie and eagle putts, lol.

> > > >

> > > > Anywhere from 20 yards for a few to 30ish for the most part. Kind of an eye-opener.

> > > >

> > > > Give me a 40 I'm sure I'm finding all sorts of ways to miss it.

> > >

> > > @ my home course (Willow Run, not the course in the above example) I'd say 30 yards is pretty typical with some areas pinched in the more you take on and some more generous.

> > >

> > > Long story short, I could definitely use to hit it a bit more accurate!

> >

> > Out of curiosity, how do you play #13 at Willow? It sets up similar to the Bakker hole adding trouble right and some length.

>

> From the tips, it has to be driver for me unless it's really downwind. I'm not that long that I can hit less than driver on a 460 yard hole. Also seems like that hole is into the wind often.

>

> From blue I'll hit 3w sometimes to keep from running through the fairway on the right. Also, if the pin is up front I'm more comfortable laying back to the fat part of the fairway as that takes 15 yards off the hole.

>

> How do you approach it.

 

Almost the same. I almost always play the blue tees and take 3w with aimpoint the left edge of the fairway. I've hit driver through the fairway a couple times going straight, but have much less control and only 30 yards more distance than my 3w. Not worth it with red stakes both left and right. Also I feel like laying back a bit takes the overhanging trees on the right edge of the dogleg out of play and I can sling a nice little draw iron into that back to front green.

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> @Rohlio said:

> > @ddetts said:

> > @"rich s" definitely looks like there's some tight driving holes! I'd probably get pretty good at punching out of the trees on a course like that!

>

> https://clubproguy.com/blogs/media/my-10-rules-for-punching-out-sideways

 

A lot of pros like to end their pre-tournament warm up routine by "scripting" their opening tee shot. What separates the average pro from elites like CPG is that he would actually script his first two shots. A double cross into the trees and the punch out to the fairway. Every little bit of extra preparation helps. Especially when you're riding that wave of consecutive MC DNF.

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So despite shooting in the 70s for the first time since before my hip replacement (3 years ago) my game has been erratic. Shot what was probably my worst round this year on Saturday morning.

 

I can't seem to get things sync'd up and have been making pretty poor contact. I haven't done much in the driving range, instead going to our short game area and working on 40-50-60-70 yard shots with my 58° wedge. Here are a couple swings from tonight from 70 yards. My distance control and dispersion have actually gotten pretty good, but judging by these swings it's more despite my swing than because of it.

 

I still can't get the right elbow in and hands forward, even on these slower swings.

 

@ebrasmus21 remember talking about shoulder plane and tilting? I felt like I was turning close to vertical, but still pretty flat for wedge swings.

 

 

 

Anyone else have trouble with lead wrist flexion? I know I've got the flexibility/ range of motion as evidenced in the picture. But as soon as I'm holding the club and my thumb is on the shaft it becomes much more difficult.

 

ys9io688m86b.jpg

 

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> @ddetts said:

> So despite shooting in the 70s for the first time since before my hip replacement (3 years ago) my game has been erratic. Shot what was probably my worst round this year on Saturday morning.

>

> I can't seem to get things sync'd up and have been making pretty poor contact. I haven't done much in the driving range, instead going to our short game area and working on 40-50-60-70 yard shots with my 58° wedge. Here are a couple swings from tonight from 70 yards. My distance control and dispersion have actually gotten pretty good, but judging by these swings it's more despite my swing than because of it.

>

> I still can't get the right elbow in and hands forward, even on these slower swings.

>

> @ebrasmus21 remember talking about shoulder plane and tilting? I felt like I was turning close to vertical, but still pretty flat for wedge swings.

>

>

>

>

>

> Anyone else have trouble with lead wrist flexion? I know I've got the flexibility/ range of motion as evidenced in the picture. But as soon as I'm holding the club and my thumb is on the shaft it becomes much more difficult.

>

> ys9io688m86b.jpg

>

 

First, I love following your thread!

 

Second, you have no need to bow your wrist even remotely as far as that picture. It can be a subtle movement, and it appears as though you do a nice job of adding a touch of flexion at transition. I'd say you would have a hard time adding any more left wrist flexion because your right wrist seems about maxed out for extension at the top.

 

In regards to getting your hands and right elbow more forward, it appears you are trying to shove your right elbow in front of your hip from transition. Pulling in the right elbow as you do is stalling your rotation and getting you under plane in the downswing. Your shoulder turn should be bringing your elbow down and forward in 3d to the proper area. (As long as your arms don't get behind you in the backswing.) Then your hands get to the necessary height as you straighten the right arm.

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> @copperjeff said:

> > @ddetts said:

> > So despite shooting in the 70s for the first time since before my hip replacement (3 years ago) my game has been erratic. Shot what was probably my worst round this year on Saturday morning.

> >

> > I can't seem to get things sync'd up and have been making pretty poor contact. I haven't done much in the driving range, instead going to our short game area and working on 40-50-60-70 yard shots with my 58° wedge. Here are a couple swings from tonight from 70 yards. My distance control and dispersion have actually gotten pretty good, but judging by these swings it's more despite my swing than because of it.

> >

> > I still can't get the right elbow in and hands forward, even on these slower swings.

> >

> > @ebrasmus21 remember talking about shoulder plane and tilting? I felt like I was turning close to vertical, but still pretty flat for wedge swings.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Anyone else have trouble with lead wrist flexion? I know I've got the flexibility/ range of motion as evidenced in the picture. But as soon as I'm holding the club and my thumb is on the shaft it becomes much more difficult.

> >

> > ys9io688m86b.jpg

> >

>

> First, I love following your thread!

>

> Second, you have no need to bow your wrist even remotely as far as that picture. It can be a subtle movement, and it appears as though you do a nice job of adding a touch of flexion at transition. I'd say you would have a hard time adding any more left wrist flexion because your right wrist seems about maxed out for extension at the top.

>

> In regards to getting your hands and right elbow more forward, it appears you are trying to shove your right elbow in front of your hip from transition. Pulling in the right elbow as you do is stalling your rotation and getting you under plane in the downswing. Your shoulder turn should be bringing your elbow down and forward in 3d to the proper area. (As long as your arms don't get behind you in the backswing.) Then your hands get to the necessary height as you straighten the right arm.

 

Thanks for following and for the feedback.

 

The wrist flexion picture was exaggerated just to slow the range of motion is there, I'm by no means chasing DJ level flexion. I feel like I can barely get it flat in the backswing/ transition & feel like I'm rotating my forearms and flattening the shaft (unintentionally) to shallow.

 

The transition and what to feel to get the arms working correctly has eluded me no matter the feels I try. I'll see what focusing in the shoulder turn yields. And in my full swing, my arms do tend to get behind me from arm over run.

----> See my current WITB
Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 9°, Fujikura VENTUS Red 6 X
Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero 15° Tensei AV Blue 75 X
Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero 18° Tensei AV Blue 75 X
Mizuno MP-18 MMC 3 Fli-Hi | 4-PW, Project X LZ 6.5
Mizuno T7 52-09 | 58-12
TaylorMade TP Mullen
 

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