Interesting discussion about the financial hit of golf....

[MountainGoat]

People frequently compare golfing to other recreational sports like skiing and biking for equivalent costs. But, the difference for me is that golf isn't something I can do a few times a year and have any fun. It takes a ton of practice to get to the point where I can play well enough to enjoy the game. Any less, and the game is simply torture. So, I have to add up the total cost of the activity, which includes all of the range balls and solo practice rounds I have to play in order to perform at a decent level. For me, that's no less than 45 holes and 500 range balls a week. That's expensive any way you cut it.

 

[North Butte]

> @MountainGoat said:

> People frequently compare golfing to other recreational sports like skiing and biking for equivalent costs. But, the difference for me is that golf isn't something I can do a few times a year and have any fun. It takes a ton of practice to get to the point where I can play well enough to enjoy the game. Any less, and the game is simply torture. So, I have to add up the total cost of the activity, which includes all of the range balls and solo practice rounds I have to play in order to perform at a decent level. For me, that's no less than 45 holes and 500 range balls a week. That's expensive any way you cut it.

 

There's a huge gap between "play a few times a year" versus the sort of extreme perfectionism you are experiencing. I'm with you in thinking if golf were something I showed up and did on a half-dozen random Saturdays each summer, well I wouldn't even bother.

 

But millions of golfers play their regular 2x a week game, win or lose their $5 Nassaus and have a blast even though they may go weeks or months at a stretch without even visiting a driving range.

 

What's expensive for you is not the game itself, it's being obsessed with reaching an never-quite-obtainable standard of perfection. Almost any activity we could name is expensive if you take it to that level. Wanting to be a 5.0 rated tennis player or able to run a marathon in 3 hours will turn those "recreational activities" into virtually a full time job entailing all sorts of expenses in addition to the time committment. Yet millions of people go out and play tennis against their friends or run every day working up to a once or twice a year marathon and don't spend much money at all.

 

[Hack Daddy]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @andrue said:

> > I don't know any golf courses in the UK that water anything other than greens and tee boxes. Most fairways go a bit yellow and patchy in dry years. It just means a bit more roll-out.

> > However dry years are currently more common than they used to be and despite the rumours some parts of the UK are classified as semi-arid. One of those regions is the South East which has the largest population concentration (within 100 miles of London basically). Of all the stupid places to decide to concentrate our population...

>

> One things humans and beavers have in common...they like to build things in the worst possible locations and continue to rebuild there when its destroyed again and again.

>

> Watering isnt much of an issue in most of the US except during drought years or in the southwest. Its the mowing. You can have Masters secondary cuts today and two days later the US Open.

>

>

 

Watering in the southwest is only an issue if the owners are too stupid to dig a well. Every course here that is in excellent condition, is living off of a well, and not a water retailer or district.

[MountainGoat]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > People frequently compare golfing to other recreational sports like skiing and biking for equivalent costs. But, the difference for me is that golf isn't something I can do a few times a year and have any fun. It takes a ton of practice to get to the point where I can play well enough to enjoy the game. Any less, and the game is simply torture. So, I have to add up the total cost of the activity, which includes all of the range balls and solo practice rounds I have to play in order to perform at a decent level. For me, that's no less than 45 holes and 500 range balls a week. That's expensive any way you cut it.

>

> There's a huge gap between "play a few times a year" versus the sort of extreme perfectionism you are experiencing. I'm with you in thinking if golf were something I showed up and did on a half-dozen random Saturdays each summer, well I wouldn't even bother.

>

> But millions of golfers play their regular 2x a week game, win or lose their $5 Nassaus and have a blast even though they may go weeks or months at a stretch without even visiting a driving range.

>

> What's expensive for you is not the game itself, it's being obsessed with reaching an never-quite-obtainable standard of perfection. Almost any activity we could name is expensive if you take it to that level. Wanting to be a 5.0 rated tennis player or able to run a marathon in 3 hours will turn those "recreational activities" into virtually a full time job entailing all sorts of expenses in addition to the time committment. Yet millions of people go out and play tennis against their friends or run every day working up to a once or twice a year marathon and don't spend much money at all.

>

Golf is the only activity in my life where I get regularly criticized for dedication and hard work. Remarkable.

 

In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from. What I don't understand are the guys who play 6 times a year and have a bucket list of high end courses they want to play. What's the point of playing Pebble Beach or TPC Sawgrass and losing a dozen balls? If you don't have a single digit handicap, you can't begin to understand those places.

[North Butte]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > People frequently compare golfing to other recreational sports like skiing and biking for equivalent costs. But, the difference for me is that golf isn't something I can do a few times a year and have any fun. It takes a ton of practice to get to the point where I can play well enough to enjoy the game. Any less, and the game is simply torture. So, I have to add up the total cost of the activity, which includes all of the range balls and solo practice rounds I have to play in order to perform at a decent level. For me, that's no less than 45 holes and 500 range balls a week. That's expensive any way you cut it.

> >

> > There's a huge gap between "play a few times a year" versus the sort of extreme perfectionism you are experiencing. I'm with you in thinking if golf were something I showed up and did on a half-dozen random Saturdays each summer, well I wouldn't even bother.

> >

> > But millions of golfers play their regular 2x a week game, win or lose their $5 Nassaus and have a blast even though they may go weeks or months at a stretch without even visiting a driving range.

> >

> > What's expensive for you is not the game itself, it's being obsessed with reaching an never-quite-obtainable standard of perfection. Almost any activity we could name is expensive if you take it to that level. Wanting to be a 5.0 rated tennis player or able to run a marathon in 3 hours will turn those "recreational activities" into virtually a full time job entailing all sorts of expenses in addition to the time committment. Yet millions of people go out and play tennis against their friends or run every day working up to a once or twice a year marathon and don't spend much money at all.

> >

> Golf is the only activity in my life where I get regularly criticized for dedication and hard work. Remarkable.

>

> In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from.

 

I wouldn't dream of criticising you for being driven to excel at golf. It's your thing and I'm glad it brings you satisfaction. I'm simply pointing out that 99% of golfers are able to enjoy just playing, without sharing your committment to something more than simply showing up and playing.

 

When you say "In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from." you're incorrect. For YOU golf requires a deep level of involvement to be enjoyable. Not "in any case" but only in the case of golfers like yourself who are more into being good at golf rather than simply playing golf.

 

There are very few activities that can be pursued with a single-minded focus on perfection and not be expensive. Mostly in terms of money but more importantly in terms of time. Golf is an activity that scales down or up as far as we want it to. From people playing at the local $30 muni half dozen times a year all the way up to 40-year-olds still grinding away on mini-tours and working on their games full time. And everywhere in between.

[tsecor]

Golf is waaaaay to expensive as a sport......you can go buy a brand new basketball for $10 and learn the game......but for those of us that love the game, money doesn't matter.......

 

I will say that going from Junior golf when I could play for $3 -$5 at my local college course to $50 when I was too old for junior fees me stop playing for years.....it sucks its so expensive but when you love something you find a way

[Talldog]

It's all relative.

 

NFL season tickets: $100 to $500 a game, depending on the team. Plus seat licensing fee ($1000-$5000 a season), plus food at stadium. More than golf money. College football season tickets, just as expensive.

 

The guy down the street owns a Corvette. He & his wife take overnight road trips on the weekends. More than golf money.

 

I have a friend that plays weekends in a band at clubs for a hobby. He just spent $3,000 on a drum kit (not including the cymbals or snare, which he probably has another $1,500 invested in).

 

How much does it cost to take a cruise or go to Disney? I know people who do it multiple times a year.

 

If you are spending money and time on golf you may or may not be doing these other things.

[lonscicles]

I can definitely see some valid arguments in the article. Growing up, thankfully it was a priority for my father, so we sacrificed other things in the name of golf. After college, it was a few years away from the game due to the financial burden the game brought on. Simply put, eating, rent, gas, car took priority over the game. Since then, where my financial means and access have grown, I have gotten back into the game. Have joined a club, and invested in clubs, etc. etc. Ultimately I think we have to look at course access and the socioeconomic factors that go into the “country club” mentality where children introductions happen. While kids can get access to lessons and workshops at muni courses, from a generational standpoint the game is grown intrinsically through, more often than not, private clubs. As time progresses, the game becomes more and more segmented to those who are wealthy and have exposure to financial means to access facilities and support for the game.

[Warrior42111]

As someone who is just finishing up paying their school loans this article hits home. I think some things can be done on the golfers part, used clubs, twilight rates etc. But in think courses need to figure out pricing too. 30% off a tee time is still 70% more than no tee time so there has to be some way achieve that.

[HatsForBats]

> @Warrior42111 said:

> As someone who is just finishing up paying their school loans this article hits home. I think some things can be done on the golfers part, used clubs, twilight rates etc. But in think courses need to figure out pricing too. 30% off a tee time is still 70% more than no tee time so there has to be some way achieve that.

 

I don't see it happening. The issue, as I see it, is not with the pricing of the courses but rather the cost of the schooling and the vast number of students/parent/grandparents willing to overpay for the schooling.

[Argonne69]

'Not sure how courses could cut costs at this point. You've got ~75 acres of turf that have to be watered, fertilized, cut, and aerated. I think they could save money by cutting back on the d-mn watering. Too many courses think that conditions have to be Augusta green to be playable. Chemical costs aren't going down. Labor costs aren't going down. Property taxes aren't going down.

 

I can walk a round of golf on a Saturday or Sunday morning at dozens of courses in the area for under $60. That's $15 an hour. Bowling can run $10 an hour per player, and they have 74 fewer acres to maintain.

[North Butte]

With a few exceptions, every public course in my area charges less to play than any conceivable long-term sustainable income. But they have to, the entire area was overbuilt with courses in the 80's and 90's and they're all chasing a much smaller number of rounds played than it would take to keep them all utilized. Much smaller number.

 

So they cut every corner they can on expenses, try to make a little money from outings a scrambles and such, charge only as much as they get by with given that the course down the road is even cheaper and are basically all scraping by until a few of them finally go under. Absent a 40-50% uptick in rounds played, it's only a matter of time until 1/3 or so of the public courses and at least that proportion of private ones disappear. Which would restore pricing to something like it's levels from 15 years ago and the surviving clubs could pay their bills on time.

 

Ignoring for a moment the fact that I'm a walker and few of them will let me play without a cart, I could have my choice of a dozen courses to play this afternoon for anywhere from $25 to $45 including a cart. A couple of them which do let me walk could be played for under $25. As friend Argonne says, that's just not much money when you think of what it takes to maintain a staff even a pretty basic course nowadays (unless they could pack in thousands of rounds a month, which they can't).

[Warrior42111]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Warrior42111 said:

> > As someone who is just finishing up paying their school loans this article hits home. I think some things can be done on the golfers part, used clubs, twilight rates etc. But in think courses need to figure out pricing too. 30% off a tee time is still 70% more than no tee time so there has to be some way achieve that.

>

> I don't see it happening. The issue, as I see it, is not with the pricing of the courses but rather the cost of the schooling and the vast number of students/parent/grandparents willing to overpay for the schooling.

 

I definitely agree with cost associated for getting a useful degree or trade certification, but that's am issue outside of golf, and something I don't want to tackle in here. I was just saying it's for sure a turn off with some of my younger or equal aged co-workers. I'm sure many courses run the numbers of tee times sold at different price values to turn net zero, but I'm also sure many don't and it's a benefit too all.

[HatsForBats]

> @Argonne69 said:

> 'Not sure how courses could cut costs at this point. You've got ~75 acres of turf that have to be watered, fertilized, cut, and aerated. I think they could save money by cutting back on the d-mn watering. Too many courses think that conditions have to be Augusta green to be playable. Chemical costs aren't going down. Labor costs aren't going down. Property taxes aren't going down.

>

> I can walk a round of golf on a Saturday or Sunday morning at dozens of courses in the area for under $60. That's $15 an hour. Bowling can run $10 an hour per player, and they have 74 fewer acres to maintain.

 

That's some pretty expensive bowling but it also depends on how many players you are talking about. Around these parts it can range from $2-$3 per hour for 4 players (Sunday morning from 9am to Noon) up to $6 per hour (4 players at full rack rate). On the weekends It's 50'ish for 2 hours for 4 people ($6.25 per hour) or add a 5th for about another $10 ($6 per hour) and those rates include shoes and house balls.

[North Butte]

Yeah but the problem is, you're BOWLING instead of playing golf like god intended. ;-)

[JAMH03]

There is only 1 answer and it's grey water.

[HatsForBats]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Yeah but the problem is, you're BOWLING instead of playing golf like god intended. ;-)

 

Sure but for me it definately makes those 4 months + 1 week when the clocks are set to the wrong time much more tolerable. I am still out golfing during that time but not nearly as often as I can when the clocks are set to the correct time.

[shadymg]

Pretty good article, and makes me grateful (kinda) that i didn't get into this sport until my 30's when i was financially secure. But even I take a second shocking look when i look at my golf budget for the year. And i agree with author about the peer pressure put in--heck, a buddy of mine coming from Australia won't stop hounding me to bite the bullet and pay the $600 to play Pebble with him, something I know i wouldn't enjoy (worry not, i'm old enough to say no lol).

I think my area of Long Beach has some relatively cost-effective programs--the Players Club gets sh*t on a lot by folks because the $32/mo fee gives folks unlimited range balls and discounted tee times, making driving mats/grass hard to come by and the courses flooded with 5-somes and 5 hour rounds.....but I love it and think it's wonderful for the game. If i want to play a faster/nicer round, then i know i can take a random tuesday off work and go to a nicer $$$ course. It's my choice. Or i can play my local par 31 9-hole for $5. That's a good range to learn/get into/obsess with an activity.

Now if only they would force people to pass a golf rules/etiquette lesson before giving them a membership, then i think it would quell a lot of the disdain for newbies at these lower cost courses. But they don't. So play is backed up, and idiots will continue to drive carts all over the greens.

[BeerPerHole]

Yes. Golf is too expensive for a lot of people. So is horseback riding, tennis, skeet shooting, boating...etc. That's the harsh reality of being an American. If you want to enjoy the finer things you must work for it. When I became a dad I gave up flying airplanes as my weekend recreation. I started my life with zero $. I don't know...if the author wants to play golf and still raise a family he should consider working 2 jobs, like I did.

[North Butte]

As I always say, it's totally geographically determined.

 

There are places where, if you're willing to deal with crowding at weekends and occasionally dodgy maintenance, you can play any time you like for $30-something a round. Some places even less than that off-peak times.

 

There are other places (NYC Metro area, Southern California, etc.) where even the most basic course is going to cost far more than that. And it may be nigh impossible to get tee times on a spring/summer Saturday morning.

 

Someone living places with few courses per million population will probably think golf is dying because it's so expensive. Those of us who live in areas with plenty of cheap golf have to look elsewhere for answers to why the same courses now have 1/3 to 1/2 as many rounds played as they did 15 years ago.

[MelloYello]

> @"North Butte" said:

> As I always say, it's totally geographically determined.

>

> There are places where, if you're willing to deal with crowding at weekends and occasionally dodgy maintenance, you can play any time you like for $30-something a round. Some places even less than that off-peak times.

>

> There are other places (NYC Metro area, Southern California, etc.) where even the most basic course is going to cost far more than that. And it may be nigh impossible to get tee times on a spring/summer Saturday morning.

>

> Someone living places with few courses per million population will probably think golf is dying because it's so expensive. Those of us who live in areas with plenty of cheap golf have to look elsewhere for answers to why the same courses now have 1/3 to 1/2 as many rounds played as they did 15 years ago.

 

That's really a huge part of it I think. So many of the friends I have who live in other areas of the country simply aren't exposed to golf the way I am. When you choose to live in a major population center, I think you do it for certain reasons. There are obviously financial benefits that drive a lot of it. There can be social reasons, too. But living away from major urban areas also has upsides.

 

I grew up (and still reside) in an area of the country where you have all levels of golf happening around you. There used to be a bunch of public driving ranges which were pretty cheap. Sadly, these are beginning to go under. That's the part I hate the most because they played such a pivotal role in my getting into the game. Above them we had a slew of options ranging from $20 dog tracks up to elite private country clubs with A TON of options in between.

 

Where I grew up, we literally had a rota of about 7-8 different courses we'd play. And that excluded a few on the top and bottom. There were probably a dozen or more around we could've played within a 45-minute drive. It was a paradise, I suppose. When I was working part-time as a kid we'd snag those $15 hot deals online and go ride 18 on a Tuesday. Or we'd go walk 9 after work for $10. Price didn't keep us out. And hence, a ton of people around me play. And a lot of them are pretty good because they play a lot. I'm 33 now so this wasn't a million years ago.

 

When I hear people talk about golf that takes 5-6 hours and costs an arm and a leg I feel bad for them. Most folks like me (in this area) wouldn't be golfing today if that were the case. Here, if you're willing to drop a couple grand on a club membership somewhere, you can be playing 50+ holes a week. And when I get the time I sometimes do that.

 

 

[RollTribe]

 

> In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from. What I don't understand are the guys who play 6 times a year and have a bucket list of high end courses they want to play. What's the point of playing Pebble Beach or TPC Sawgrass and losing a dozen balls? If you don't have a single digit handicap, you can't begin to understand those places.

 

Get out of here with this snobbish attitude. You can enjoy golf without ‘getting inside the architect’s head’ while standing on a tee box at Pebble Beach. If you like golf getting to play where the pros play is cool. Those courses are visually awesome, any skill level can enjoy it.

 

Maybe your enjoyment from golf comes from some super deep understanding of the game but for a lot of people it’s a recreational activity where they spend time with friends and get outside.

 

[North Butte]

> @RollTribe said:

>

> > In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from. What I don't understand are the guys who play 6 times a year and have a bucket list of high end courses they want to play. What's the point of playing Pebble Beach or TPC Sawgrass and losing a dozen balls? If you don't have a single digit handicap, you can't begin to understand those places.

>

> Get out of here with this snobbish attitude. You can enjoy golf without ‘getting inside the architect’s head’ while standing on a tee box at Pebble Beach. If you like golf getting to play where the pros play is cool. Those courses are visually awesome, any skill level can enjoy it.

>

> Maybe your enjoyment from golf comes from some super deep understanding of the game but for a lot of people it’s a recreational activity where they spend time with friends and get outside.

>

 

My wife has never touched a golf club in her life. I am 100% sure she would "understand" plenty about Pebble Beach!

[Kevlar10]

I am still amazed at some posters saying $30-50 a round is the cheaper rounds. I did play a $45 course last week, but I do not normally pay more than $25. I live an hour outside of NYC and there are plenty of courses $25 or cheaper, some during prime times. I realize that they aren’t the best courses, but as a previous poster commented, the expensive, “bucket list” courses aren’t those you’d play everyday. You “practice” on the places you can afford to play often. I think golf for the average joe player has become more affordable, especially with the tee times on the internet, course specials and e-clubs.

[RollTribe]

> @Kevlar10 said:

> I am still amazed at some posters saying $30-50 a round is the cheaper rounds. I did play a $45 course last week, but I do not normally pay more than $25. I live an hour outside of NYC and there are plenty of courses $25 or cheaper, some during prime times. I realize that they aren’t the best courses, but as a previous poster commented, the expensive, “bucket list” courses aren’t those you’d play everyday. You “practice” on the places you can afford to play often. I think golf for the average joe player has become more affordable, especially with the tee times on the internet, course specials and e-clubs.

 

Consider yourself lucky. Around me $32 is the cheapest and that's a ripoff for that course too. $45 isn't a bucket list course, that's how much the 3 munis around me charge for a Saturday tee time.

[North Butte]

Our local muni charges $25 to walk at weekends, less on weekdays, also discounts for seniors and students and such. But it does get up to $40 if you're playing on a weekend with a cart. I think that's well within the "lucky" range because it's a perfectly cromulent course that even good players find suitable. If my budget were tight, I could be reasonably happy playing there two or three times a week on a $750 annual (walking) pass.

 

There's a public course I've played that is even cheaper but it's honestly so scruffy that I don't think I could bring myself to play there regularly. Pretty poor greens and, depending on the luck of the weather, often frankly often tee-to-green maintenance.

[smashdn]

> @MountainGoat said:

> Golf is the only activity in my life where I get regularly criticized for dedication and hard work. Remarkable.

>

> In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from.

 

 

That's you and most guys here. I know guys that are as happy as a hog in slop to play in a scramble or two every summer and pound a 12 pack in the process.

 

[smashdn]

> @physasst said:

> This is a good piece. Something I've thought about for a LONG time. I do well financially, I can afford to play a LOT. I can also afford to travel and play, but I'm in an upper income tier and often wonder how younger players with less financial stability or earnings, especially those with young families are supposed to play this game.

 

Hi, my name is Smash. I'm 35 and have three kids. Wife quit her job to stay at home while our twins are young.

 

I play the game by hitting range balls ($4 a bucket) and chipping and putting (free). I'll swing the club in the yard a bit too just to keep the golf muscles toned up. I also try to walk 9 holes ($16) every other week, sometimes every week.

 

We live a financially conservative lifestyle even when we were both working and had no kids. That allowed us to save money knowing that kids were going to be expensive. The only debt we have is her car payment and our mortgage payment. We don't eat out much (mostly due to inconvenience with three kids) and we don't really do things that cost much money, just kind of unconsciously.

 

I don't buy brand new clubs. The clubs I have work just fine. When I get to itching for something "new" I have found enjoyment in classic clubs including persimmon woods and blades. Easy to find those for sale very cheap. And get this, my scores are about the same whether I am using those clubs or the modern clubs. I just don't drive it quite as far so I have longer approaches. It actually makes playing with the modern clubs very, very easy.

 

 

[MountainGoat]

I > @smashdn said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > Golf is the only activity in my life where I get regularly criticized for dedication and hard work. Remarkable.

> >

> > In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from.

>

>

> That's you and most guys here. I know guys that are as happy as a hog in slop to play in a scramble or two every summer and pound a 12 pack in the process.

>

True, but the golf industry doesn’t live on the two-rounds-a-year guy. It lives because of repeat business from guys like me. When we walk away or severely cut back because of expense, then there are problems.

 

[Argonne69]

> @MountainGoat said:

> I > @smashdn said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > Golf is the only activity in my life where I get regularly criticized for dedication and hard work. Remarkable.

> > >

> > > In any case, golf requires a deeper level of involvement than other activities to derive enjoyment. That's where the cost comes from.

> >

> >

> > That's you and most guys here. I know guys that are as happy as a hog in slop to play in a scramble or two every summer and pound a 12 pack in the process.

> >

> True, but the golf industry doesn’t live on the two-rounds-a-year guy. It lives because of repeat business from guys like me. When we walk away or severely cut back because of expense, then there are problems.

>

 

I generally believe that's true, but there sure seems to be a lot of courses that didn't get the memo. How many times have courses crammed outtings into the middle of busiest days of the week/season? I played a round a few years back where the course did a shotgun start at 9 am, placing the outing right in the middle of the morning wave. My group finished the 11th hole, and saw two groups on the next teebox that we didn't recognize. The group that had been in front of us was in the middle of the 12th fairway, and now we've got two additional groups in front of us for the next 6 holes. FFS. 'Never been back to the course.