Koepka on JB Holmes

[BiggErn]

> @bladehunter said:

> Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

 

It’s funny when the USGA craps the bed with the US Open and when guys complain they’re whining but when Koepka says everyone plays the same course he’s somehow the “bigger person”. Now he whines about playing with a slow guy and somehow he’s pretending to bring light to an issue everyone has known about forever. I guess it’s like the ones so enamored with him and compare him to an NFL player for wearing muscle shirt polos.

[newoodky]

Reminds me of the Crane/Sabbatini moment back in 2005.

[smashdn]

> @tatertot said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > That makes sense because when I watched him he didn't seem slow to me. But I see now where the problem is. I read once where Nicklaus had a similar problem when he first came on tour. He said he was trying to be respectful and not disturb his partners. That's why he wouldn't start anything until it was his turn. So one day Jack got called on that by some head of the tour and he adjusted. Maybe that's all JB needs?

> > >

> >

> > Nic> @Lagavulin62 said:

> > > That makes sense because when I watched him he didn't seem slow to me. But I see now where the problem is. I read once where Nicklaus had a similar problem when he first came on tour. He said he was trying to be respectful and not disturb his partners. That's why he wouldn't start anything until it was his turn. So one day Jack got called on that by some head of the tour and he adjusted. Maybe that's all JB needs?

> > >

> >

> > NicKlaus was slow all the way through his career. I hated watching him play because of it. Good for Brooks.

>

> Nicklaus took a long time over the ball ... While never a fast player, he avoided being a slow one by wasting little time getting to his ball and being ready to hit when his turn came.

>

> This is what BK ... Ansd EVERYBODY'S ... Problem with Holmes is. He always seems startled when it's his turn, like he's not expecting it. On the first tee today, it genuinely looked like he didn't even start to think about his first shot until AFTER his name was announced. And he's like that on every shot.

 

> @"Rory Mcilwoods" said:

> had to be said....it's crazy that the buffoon doesn't even think about his shot until its his turn

>

>

 

I don't intend to be a JB Holmes apologist though full disclosure I am from KY and would have liked to have seen him win a major.

 

But read through a couple of golf books and you can see exactly where his routine comes from. Several that I have on the shelf note that it is darn near impossible and too mentally taxing to focus your entire round. The books advocate for instead being loose and "mentally disengaged" until it becomes "golf time." Holmes' trigger to get in that zone is when it is his turn to play. He should instead get going a lot sooner IMO but I can see where that may lead to inconsistency in the timing of his routine if he had to wait after he got his crap together and ready to hit. For instance if the guy before backed off for whatever reason, now he is ready to go and nothing to keep his mind busy with he may get to second guessing or over thinking. Or that clock he works to is now off kilter.

 

I firmly believe that keeping busy is why BCD does all the extraneous and superfluous crap he does. Dude would have about a trillion extra thoughts going through his head if he didn't keep it busy.

 

You can be deliberate and not be slow. Both those cats should find a way to do that.

 

[Hardluckster]

> @newoodky said:

> Reminds me of the Crane/Sabbatini moment back in 2005.

 

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

 

That was a total jerk move by Rory, imo. Crane was slow, but that was a bush league reaction by Sabbiniti I think. He could have handled it in better ways, I think.

 

As to the BK/JBH grouping yesterday: Holmes is slow. Yesterday, however, I didn't get the feeling from watching that their group ever really fell very far behind the group ahead of them. In fact on the short par 4 on the back the group ahead of them, while still on the green putting, waved them up from the tee. If your aren't losing ground to the group ahead, there's really nothing more that you can do.

 

[Hawkeye77]

> @Hardluckster said:

> > @newoodky said:

> > Reminds me of the Crane/Sabbatini moment back in 2005.

>

> That was a total jerk move by Rory, imo. Crane was slow, but that was a bush league reaction by Sabbiniti I think.

>

> As to the BK/JBH grouping yesterday: Holmes is slow. Yesterday, however, I didn't get the feeling from watching that their group ever really fell very far behind the group ahead of them. In fact on the short par 4 on the back the group ahead of them, while still on the green putting, waved them up from the tee. If your aren't losing ground to the group ahead, there's really nothing more that you can do.

>

Same, didn't really seem to be out of position and if so, likely others were/weren't at various times because of the conditions.

Koepka deflecting a bit I'm sure because of his own frustrations, and maybe they are legit, but can't imagine he doesn't know how to mentally deal with a slower player with all of his experience.

[newoodky]

> @Hardluckster said:

> > @newoodky said:

> > Reminds me of the Crane/Sabbatini moment back in 2005.

>

> That was a total jerk move by Rory, imo. Crane was slow, but that was a bush league reaction by Sabbiniti I think.

>

> As to the BK/JBH grouping yesterday: Holmes is slow. Yesterday, however, I didn't get the feeling from watching that their group ever really fell very far behind the group ahead of them. In fact on the short par 4 on the back the group ahead of them, while still on the green putting, waved them up from the tee. If your aren't losing ground to the group ahead, there's really nothing more that you can do.

>

 

Oh I 1000% agree. I just really liked how Ben Crane approached the situation and also took time to self reflect of why this happened. Not saying it is one person's fault but Crane realized his slow play was causing guys to not enjoy their day on the course. Think JB is a great guy, but also think he needs to do the same.

 

Sidenote: if there is an underlying medical condition with JB and his previous brain surgeries then it all goes out the window.

[Roadking2003]

> @LICC said:>

> How often has anyone been put on the clock or penalized?

 

Good question. What is the answer?

 

> @tatertot said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @tatertot said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> > > >

> > > > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> > > >

> > >

> > > So it's just a coincidence so many people complain about him and he's known as the human rain delay? Or is everybody just out to get him?

> >

> > Neither. Once the media convinces the viewers that something is true, everybody runs with it. Happens all the time on all topics.

>

> The dude is s-l-o-w. Why would the "media" be out to get him?

 

I didn't say the media is out to get him.

[Roadking2003]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> Im all for finding ways to shave minutes off of rounds, but this idea that slow play is some sort of problem that is dragging down pro golf is absurd. Its not. Slow play is a problem with hacking amateurs who have to spend 10 minutes looking for every tee ball they hit, or the twosome that is stuck behind the drunken foursome that wont let them play through. Its not a problem with touring professionals playing for seven figures every week.

 

Exactly! Slow play on the Tour is not a spectator problem. If it was a problem for the Tour they would be addressing it.

[bladehunter]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> Don't really get the level of personal attack leveled at JB. Nobody posting has any real skin in the game of the final round, or any round, of a major or any other Tour event so far as I know. As for slow play in general, If and when the players on the PGA Tour really want something done about it, it will be done. Euro Tour does some enforcement so there seems to be a way to do it. As for the majors in particular and how they run things, IMO, things slow down a bit sometimes, and here weather and really bad play on Sunday was an obvious factor. He's singled out this week, and of course for his angst at Torrey a year or two ago. But overall, not really a "major" problem to me. Would I like to see them play a little brisker pace? Sure. Excluding a few turtles do I get why the pace overall isn't as fast as we would play? Pretty obvious answer there.

>

> He isn't the only problem, but based on comments outside the world of wrx it's not like the entire Tour membership is all that worked up about it.

>

> Tournaments still seem to get done when they plan for them to be done most of the time, so doesn't really affect my personal schedule, which isn't the issue anyway.

>

>

>

>

>

 

Have to agree hawk. While I hate slow play, for some reason JB is hard to just hate. Brooks. Easy. But JB. I find it tough. Someone just needs to grab him and say “ hey guy. We have to figure this out. What can we do here “? And start an actual conversation, not just a pitchfork wielding mob. I doubt JB cusses the room out and refuses. Just an idea.

[bladehunter]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @JaNelson38 said:

> > Not saying Brooks is necessarily wrong about JB, but he would be faster than just about any player on Tour. Stuff like this can be handled in a different way as opposed to always calling out others in the media.

>

> This is true. What BK fails to realize is that overly fast players can be just as irritating as slow players. BK is just using his "I've won four majors" bully pulpit.

 

100%. And the fans are all on the “ well brooks would have won if not for JB “ train. Which is patently false.

[Roadking2003]

> @cardoustie said:

> Others surely saw his drawn out fiasco at Torrey. How long did that layup on the 18th take when he could have easily reached ... it was pathetic.

I agree. I saw it. And others are just as bad. I recall the Cristie Kerr fiasco just like it about a year ago.

 

If JB did that every day the uproar would be justified.

 

 

 

[physasst]

I think for the pros, they should have a guy carrying a shot clock. Big red digits. As soon as it is the players turn, it starts. Virtually EVERY other major sport has play or shot clocks. You think Tom Brady isn't under pressure when the Super Bowl is on the line, and they are 4th and 3 at the end of the 4th quarter in a tied game? Pressure SHOULD be part of it.

[Bucken77]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> > @jgallant415 said:

> > For anyone in the “Brooks has to adjust to slow play” camp, I ask “why?” What good reason is there that everyone else needs to adjust to the pace of the slower players instead of making the sloths hurry the heck up? Slow play sucks, period, and I’m not really sure what argument can be made against playing at a reasonable pace.

>

> Because every generation had slow players that the greats have overcome. Not saying slow play isn’t a problem but

> 1) JB sucked today

> 2) The group was not behind.

> 3) JB may have a medical condition that can cause difficulty in his focus.

>

>

>

>

Not picking a club until after the player has hit is not a medical condition. It's deliberate. If he was ready to hit and then Sergio waggled or just stood there thinking about his shot, then maybe that argument could be made. He is simply not ready for his turn which should not be something that the other players have to overcome.

 

[tbowles411]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > Don't really get the level of personal attack leveled at JB. Nobody posting has any real skin in the game of the final round, or any round, of a major or any other Tour event so far as I know. As for slow play in general, If and when the players on the PGA Tour really want something done about it, it will be done. Euro Tour does some enforcement so there seems to be a way to do it. As for the majors in particular and how they run things, IMO, things slow down a bit sometimes, and here weather and really bad play on Sunday was an obvious factor. He's singled out this week, and of course for his angst at Torrey a year or two ago. But overall, not really a "major" problem to me. Would I like to see them play a little brisker pace? Sure. Excluding a few turtles do I get why the pace overall isn't as fast as we would play? Pretty obvious answer there.

> >

> > He isn't the only problem, but based on comments outside the world of wrx it's not like the entire Tour membership is all that worked up about it.

> >

> > Tournaments still seem to get done when they plan for them to be done most of the time, so doesn't really affect my personal schedule, which isn't the issue anyway.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Have to agree hawk. While I hate slow play, for some reason JB is hard to just hate. Brooks. Easy. But JB. I find it tough. Someone just needs to grab him and say “ hey guy. We have to figure this out. What can we do here “? And start an actual conversation, not just a pitchfork wielding mob. I doubt JB cusses the room out and refuses. Just an idea.

Some people find it easy to hate JB for this reason, which is ridiculous. Let's run him out of the game! He's slow and should be shot! Bull! BK and everyone else can speak about this until they're blue in the face but until the PGA Tour starts assessing shots, nothing is going to change. And they are in no hurry to do that and they players know it. JB is not the only slow one. This whole "I have 4 majors and you should listen to me" thing is really beginning to wear thin on me.

 

[kizell]

It was a pretty dick move by BK. JB just shot an 87, he's down in the dumps, and BK didnt have a real shot at winning the open anyway. So what's the point?

 

It's not like JB is the one who invented slow play. Since the days of Bernhard Langer, slow play has become commonplace on the PGA tour, unfortunately. It probably even goes back the the days of Nicklaus.

 

The point I'm making is that slow play is not something JB Holmes invented. Even though I agree with the sentiment, it was a dick move by BK.

[MaineMariner]

I honestly don't know if I've ever seen a golfer wait until their playing partner has teed off before having a chat with their caddie and pulling their club... on the FIRST TEE.

 

I mean, that's just what he does. If you can't see why people find that somewhere between strange and infuriating, I'm not sure what to tell you.

[bscinstnct]

> @kizell said:

> It was a pretty dick move by BK. JB just shot an 87, he's down in the dumps, and BK didnt have a real shot at winning the open anyway. So what's the point?

>

> It's not like JB is the one who invented slow play. Since the days of Bernhard Langer, slow play has become commonplace on the PGA tour, unfortunately. It probably even goes back the the days of Nicklaus.

>

> The point I'm making is that slow play is not something JB Holmes invented. Even though I agree with the sentiment, it was a dick move by BK.

 

I remember Arnie raising hell out of how slow it was getting and people not being "ready" when they were up. Jack said that he liked to wait until the partner hit until he got his yardage and did his practice swings. Said it's how he learned so need more investigation into who started it all ; )

[lopey986]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

>

> It’s funny when the USGA craps the bed with the US Open and when guys complain they’re whining but when Koepka says everyone plays the same course he’s somehow the “bigger person”. Now he whines about playing with a slow guy and somehow he’s pretending to bring light to an issue everyone has known about forever. I guess it’s like the ones so enamored with him and compare him to an NFL player for wearing muscle shirt polos.

 

Everyone does play the same course. You know what everyone doesn't have to do? Play with JB Holmes.

[Roadking2003]

> @physasst said:

> I think for the pros, they should have a guy carrying a shot clock. Big red digits. As soon as it is the players turn, it starts. Virtually EVERY other major sport has play or shot clocks. You think Tom Brady isn't under pressure when the Super Bowl is on the line, and they are 4th and 3 at the end of the 4th quarter in a tied game? Pressure SHOULD be part of it.

 

Golf is not football. Let's keep it that way.

[physasst]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @physasst said:

> > I think for the pros, they should have a guy carrying a shot clock. Big red digits. As soon as it is the players turn, it starts. Virtually EVERY other major sport has play or shot clocks. You think Tom Brady isn't under pressure when the Super Bowl is on the line, and they are 4th and 3 at the end of the 4th quarter in a tied game? Pressure SHOULD be part of it.

>

> Golf is not football. Let's keep it that way.

Well, then get rid of the rule. If they have a rule regarding 40 seconds or 60 seconds, then they need to enforce it. Otherwise get rid of it. It's ridiculous to have a rule, and then do nothing to enforce it when you have fans and other players complaining. Have a shot clock. Man, I'd even have a buzzer go off when it ends. In the middle of your shot? Too bad. You should have moved faster. Start enforcing it, warning first, 1 stroke penalty on the second. This isn't hard to do. They're just all wimps and don't want to enforce it. Makes you not even want to watch the pros. Got the jitters cause there is a lot of money on the line? Too fucking bad. Man up. If you can't hack it, then maybe you aren't cut out to be a professional tour player. My opinion at least.

 

[bscinstnct]

Ha! BK facepalm with JB in the background plum bobbing.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @physasst said:

> Well, then get rid of the rule. If they have a rule regarding 40 seconds or 60 seconds, then they need to enforce it.

 

They do enforce it. The fact that there are so few violations indicates that getting put on the clock causes groups to speed up.

 

[nix]

I'm no fan of Brooks, but he is right. JB is notorious for being one of the slowest players on tour (also cantlay). A certain pace of play should be adhered to for the sake of the fans and for those playing in and behind your group. A strict clock is a bad idea because sometimes you do need a bit more time. But when you are constantly taking way more time than you should, its a problem. I like JB, but he could pick up the pace.

[North Butte]

The only influence that a Tour player can have on the morons who are selfishly ruining the game is to shame them, call them out, tell them to speed up or otherwise apply peer pressure. The people running professional golf are totally uninterested in any meaningful step to address the ever slower play. Someone like Koepka isn't afraid to be seen as a jerk so he just tells it like it is. A few more Koepkas on Tour might not help the slow play disease but it sure couldn't hurt.

 

And don't give me any "brain surgery" nonsense. There are plenty of guys who are far too slow who have never undergone brain surgery. What they do have are a corps of highly paid professional "psychologists" whispering in their ear every day with suggestions for how to further procrastinate before every single shot.

[nix]

Also, the fact he really annoyed Brooks makes me want to give JB a break though because Brooks is more annoying as a person than JB is annoying with his slowness.

[BiggErn]

> @lopey986 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

> >

> > It’s funny when the USGA craps the bed with the US Open and when guys complain they’re whining but when Koepka says everyone plays the same course he’s somehow the “bigger person”. Now he whines about playing with a slow guy and somehow he’s pretending to bring light to an issue everyone has known about forever. I guess it’s like the ones so enamored with him and compare him to an NFL player for wearing muscle shirt polos.

>

> Everyone does play the same course. You know what everyone doesn't have to do? Play with JB Holmes.

 

Until they do....then in BK’s case he whines. When things are going good nobody whines. BK just showed he’s a hypocrite.

[TheLongBall]

I would honestly rather watch paint dry than watch JB play a round of golf. BK is all business and I respect that he spoke out.

[cardoustie]

The slow play / prep is a crutch for players to mentally prepare / get ready for the shot at hand ... and soften the nerves. And it is for EVERY shot now, even the standard ones from the centre of the fairway. It has morphed in OVER ANALYZING and DeShampoo isn't helping matters FWIW

This has to be stopped with JB .... and all the other flagrant violators.

It's infuriating to me because these guys are the best in the world. You should know how far your knock down 8 iron flies into a 20mph wind.

Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club. I don't need to watch a 20 capper reading an 8 footer from four sides for a triple. Hit me in nuts with a wrench instead. You've been a member here for 15 years, you know what the putt does FFS

[lopey986]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @lopey986 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

> > >

> > > It’s funny when the USGA craps the bed with the US Open and when guys complain they’re whining but when Koepka says everyone plays the same course he’s somehow the “bigger person”. Now he whines about playing with a slow guy and somehow he’s pretending to bring light to an issue everyone has known about forever. I guess it’s like the ones so enamored with him and compare him to an NFL player for wearing muscle shirt polos.

> >

> > Everyone does play the same course. You know what everyone doesn't have to do? Play with JB Holmes.

>

> Until they do....then in BK’s case he whines. When things are going good nobody whines. BK just showed he’s a hypocrite.

 

Hypocrite. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

BK has been consistent in his criticism of slow play since Day 1.

[lopey986]

> @nix said:

> Also, the fact he really annoyed Brooks makes me want to give JB a break though because Brooks is more annoying as a person than JB is annoying with his slowness.

 

Too bad all the shit JB does bleeds over into actual rounds of golf in the real world. Nothing Brooks does has any affect on that. 5 hour rounds are dreadful.