Joe Dante early wrist hinge - mixed advice

[Scottk]

I am reading Joe Dante's 4 magic moves. Yesterday I decided to try the early wrist hinge where the right wrist hinges back as the first move. I tried it on the range and was really hitting it flush. I brought it on the course and continued to hit it well. Most noticeably was in the zone inside 100 yards (sandwedge, gap wedge, etc.)

 

When I finished, I asked one of the pros what he thought of it and his response was "bad news". He called it starting out weak. What are your thoughts. If you are at the waiter or tray position at the top, isn't it ultimately a good position to be in? Thanks.

[DaveLeeNC]

I've played (on the course) using this technique on two separate occasions.

1) Late 2007/early 2008. I kept trying to 'minimize' the early wristcock and somehow blend that move into a 'normal swing'. I quit doing it when I got tired of having the strangest swing this side of Jim Furyk. FWIW, I shot the best round of my life (shot the course rating and did it without super putting - 33 putts or something like that).

2) I went back to it about 8 months ago. I swore to myself that I was 'just going to swing that way' - period. One day at the range the shanks showed up. I basically never shank the ball. Suddenly I was shanking 7 out of 10 short irons. I probably hadn't shanked the ball in 6 months. So I just stopped using 'the move'.

What I find is that the swing is 'much simpler and more manageable' when I pre-set my wrists. The first place it shows up is when taking video. I can just step up to the ball, align, and go. When I trim 'the excess' from the video footage I am always missing the start of the swing because it gets going so quickly (and easily). When I swing normally I first have to 'win this argment' with myself about whether my backswing is going to be on plane or not. And it takes 2-3 seconds to 'win that argument' (if I lose I will be layed-off at the top). I don't have that problem with the 'Dante pre-set'.

Even a golf buddy (who was a PGA certified teaching pro in his younger days) has commented that he likes that move for me because (to his eyes) my swing looks simpler and easier to get going.

I don't know what to think about my 'shanks episode' and I have never liked that move when making partial swings (like a 45 yard LW or punching a hybrid out from under tree liimbs). So I am back to normal for now.

dave

[bennetts]

I had a lesson last month and my pro got me to start the swing by breaking the wrists. I wasnt sure about it to start with, as it goes against common advice. Prior to that i had been attempting to use a lagging clubhead takeaway and float loading to set the wrists. However, the club wasnt getting on plane and i wasnt getting enough set in the transition.
For me the early set gets the club gets on plane and helps ensure the hands stay ahead at impact. It as helped my short game tremendously - i get a much more consistent downward strike.
Its supposedly not a dynamic way of loading the shaft, but i have not noticed any loss in distance.
Cheers

[Jeff Evans]

Dante uses a full sweep and loads the power package at the beginning of the backstroke. This is away to do it and might not be not be for everyone.

There is as early as possible, as late as possible and somewhere in between.

[Sean2]

of all the golf books i have read i like joe dante's the best. i am still working on the transition, but when i execute it properly i hit the ball much more solidly and have gained quite a bit of distance. prior to "magic moves" i was releasing the club much to early. i'm still working on it, but overall find it excellent. it certainly simplifies things.

[scotchblade]

Brian Manzella also breaks the right wrist back on itself from the git go. Add the "twistaway" and never slice again. Faldo describes something similar in his book.

[tm22721]

I adopted this early on but have since outgrown it after finding it to be a crutch for a problem where I was armsy, ie not turning my shoulders in the backswing pure laziness. A symptom of not turning the shoulders is that you have problems straightening your left arm which is extremely BAD causing lots of inconsistency.

[Britboy]

I really like the book - especially the tone which is sure of itself in the extreme !

My coach and I have been working on something very similar in my full swing with excellent results.

If I try to use it for my wedge game then I can also get shanks and inaccuracy so I now use more of a rotational cut swing for my short game. At first it was strange to have two swings but it actually works really well. By rotational I mean fanning the club face open.

Interested to hear anyone elses thoughts on this

[atlanta golfer]

Isn't there a school of thought that says the wrist hinge should occur naturally, assuming you have a correct grip and takeaway? Personally, I don't think about it, but on video, even with a 3/4 backswing for the irons, I can see the club about 90 degrees from my forearms, at the top.

[r2t2]

I have taught and used an early wrist set at various times over the years. It is certainly not something everyone should use.

For those who have had problems with shanking the ball using this, it comes from setting the club too far inside on the takeaway. You need to make sure the club stays inline to just outside the hands when you set.

[mikpga]

It's all a matter of preference and creating a good sequence which works for the golfer consistently...

[Double Gee]

there is no such thing as a correct hinge or correct this or that.

If it works for you, then it works. I have the Dante book for 2 months or so now and been really enjoying the system described. For me, I am hitting the ball so much better, my fade has all but gone, being replaced with a comfortable soft draw (second in the Monthly stableford today and am happy )

I have always had a problem with the normal type of takeaway, but I always ended up fanning the club open and screwing it all up.

The Magic Move wrist break has stopped all that and IMO is a worthwhile and important method... but, if you are ok with the other method then good for you.

[dlygrisse]

I was taught to swing similar to this years ago, with it I developed a habit of snatching the club up too steeply and tilting the shoulders not turning them, it works great for short irons but leads to problems with the longer clubs. I prefer to begin my swing now with more of a standard one peice takeaway with the shoulders arms and club all turning back together, let the weight of the club set the wrists when it wants to. My wrists still set pretty quick but it doesnt feel like it now because I am not doing it consciencly. I will sometimes occasionally hit partial wedges with this method, but much less than I used to.

One thing I have learned about golf, there is more than one way to skin a cat, it seems every method has it's advantages and disadvanteges, do what works for you but from my experiecne setting the wrists early can lead to backswing issues, however when done correctly I hit the ball very solidly using that method, it just seemed I had to practice a lot to keep things in order going back though.

[Double Gee]

[quote name='dlygrisse' date='14 February 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1266193122' post='2251669']
I was taught to swing similar to this years ago, [b]with it I developed a habit of snatching the club up too steeply and tilting the shoulders not turning them, it works great for short irons but leads to problems with the longer clubs.[/b] I prefer to begin my swing now with more of a standard one peice takeaway with the shoulders arms and club all turning back together, let the weight of the club set the wrists when it wants to. My wrists still set pretty quick but it doesnt feel like it now because I am not doing it consciencly. I will sometimes occasionally hit partial wedges with this method, but much less than I used to.

One thing I have learned about golf, there is more than one way to skin a cat, it seems every method has it's advantages and disadvanteges, do what works for you but from my experiecne setting the wrists early can lead to backswing issues, however when done correctly I hit the ball very solidly using that method, it just seemed I had to practice a lot to keep things in order going back though.
[/quote]

I take it you did not actually read the Dante book, but a similar idea?

The detailed instruction is very clear within that the backward wristbreak [i]combined[/i] with the tensioned left arm will STOP you lifting too steep, and the tilting of shoulders is actually [b]YOU[/b] and not the fault of the 4 Magic Moves.... and would happen on any swing pattern you choose. Again, Joe is very clear that tilting shoulders is a big fault for many and you MUST turn the shoulders.

[Jeremy JJS]

Have worked with this method and find it excellent. It’s not a cocking of the wrist’s its as Joe says in the book it’s a backward break if the right wrist. You have to do it correct and read the book fully to get the full and correct outcome.

[talfredson]

I've been early wrist hinging for almost two years. Picked it up from Dustin Johnson and have improved accuracy, distance, and ball striking. I hit my driver about 300 on average now as well as the early wrist hinge has improved ball striking. The one thing I will add is that sometimes when I forward press into the hinge my shoulders will turn left a hair and my ball will start out farther left and I want or I will pull the ball so that is something I really focus on when on the range. Found the fault recording my swing one time. I really have to freeze the shoulders when early wrist hinging to make sure they stay where I want the ball to fly.

[Jersey golfer]

> @talfredson said:

> I've been early wrist hinging for almost two years. Picked it up from Dustin Johnson and have improved accuracy, distance, and ball striking. I hit my driver about 300 on average now as well as the early wrist hinge has improved ball striking. The one thing I will add is that sometimes when I forward press into the hinge my shoulders will turn left a hair and my ball will start out farther left and I want or I will pull the ball so that is something I really focus on when on the range. Found the fault recording my swing one time. I really have to freeze the shoulders when early wrist hinging to make sure they stay where I want the ball to fly.

 

Again, Dante's first magic move is a backwards wrist break not the normal wrist hinging.

[talfredson]

More wrist break than forward press. My hands are already forward pressed a bit so I really try to concentrate on breaking the wrists backwards and not forwards.

[KMeloney]

Went looking for this thread again after seeing it last week just to say how important it is for me to start my swing this way. It's what's been missing from my swing. It immediately gets my swing on-plane (the whole "one piece take-away" thing never worked for me), and I feel like it allows me to completely control the club face. That, and having that awareness of a bent-back right wrist early in the swing allows me to shorten my backswing and promotes the forward driving of my right elbow on the downswing.

 

Just had to share. Good stuff, gents!

[badboggs]

How do you deal with the shorter shots? That is where I start to fail with this line of work.

[KMeloney]

> @badboggs said:

> How do you deal with the shorter shots? That is where I start to fail with this line of work.

 

It's still early, but I think the same way, ultimately. Even a short punch shot requires some turn/shoulder rotation -- which I think can be easy to leave out of the swing if you don't stay aware. I think that on a short shot, it's still going to be a combination of right wrist bend and turn, not just right wrist bend as the whole swing.

[badboggs]

I've found with this technique that I can really dispel some of my anxiety about shots. It feels like I'm cocking a machine and just flinging the ball out there. I sort of feel like I'm throwing a ball with one of those dog ball chucker sticks but on a golf plane.

[KMeloney]

That's a great way to put it! Me too. It's like the club just wants to go back on plane and come down in the slot, and all I have to do is turn and lead with my elbow. I don't even have to think about squaring the face, as keeping the wrist bend appears to bring the face down square to the arc already.

 

Sure, I have to be mindful of my pivot and balance, but I'd have to anyway. This move just seems to eliminate a lot of other actions that I was trying to manage at the same time.

[badboggs]

I’ve also found it makes my backswing shorter.

[talfredson]

By early wrist hinge my only swing thoughts (beside alignment) are getting left shoulder to turn and then clearing the hips and chest past the target. If I start missing left I can feel my chest isn't getting open and it's an easy fix.

 

It also makes my back swing shorter but I've always had a pretty short backswing. Must be a tall guy thing. I have struggled with shots in between clubs because my back swing is so short it's hard to get a 1/2 or 3/4 swing so I usually try to muscle a shorter iron instead of taking the longer one and dialing it back.

[Peter_b]

it also makes my back swing shorter.

 

Nah it doesn’t, early wristset makes you hinge earlier and so it feels like it. Just make sure you show your left back to the ball. Just lifting arms is a fake upswing. Ball wants to see your back before it flies. 

DJ does Dante imho. He sets it at P2 not P1. 

As a flipper and early extender, with Dante my bottom is even going deeper not closer to ball, hands are ahead in impact and knuckles down, and of course with this, there is no flip. 

I find i important to squat well as sitting in the left side so left knee goes out left by itself a bit. It makes you not slide hips left too much (Emery evolved fundamentals)

What also helps me is the thought: up with the shoulders, down with the body (Duplessgolf youtube), which helps do the squat and not start the arms. My check for impact is  the left hand feels vulnerable. It is not  but the back side of the left wrists and left hand feels exposed. I can not describe it otherwise it feels like you maybe could hurt your left wrist. If your left wrist feels vulnerable you have the knuckles down at impact.

 

What bothers me is doing the early wristset there is a snap in my radiocarpal joint. It makes click. That’s not healthy over time. It’s the weight of the club while turning the radiocarpal and radioulnar joints. 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/dustin-johnson-wds-charlotte-sore-left-wrist

 

this could happen

Edited September 8, 2020 by Peter_b

[Nickc]

Isn't Monte's no turn cast drill essentially an early wrist hinge (though not a Dante wrist hinge) ? Nothing wrong with an early wrist hinge - though think it should form a natural part of one's backswing i.e no thought BUT as someone else pointed out Dante's actual wrist hinge is quite different from what I understand to be the norm. Tried to do it once but seemed quite weird and unnatural. I have a friend who unknowingly does it with a very very flat very wrist flick dominated swing! 

Do all those using Dante as an instruction source for an early wrist hinge actually do the type of wrist hinge he says is correct? 

[Hilts1969]

On 8/19/2009 at 7:17 AM, Scottk said:

I am reading Joe Dante's 4 magic moves. Yesterday I decided to try the early wrist hinge where the right wrist hinges back as the first move. I tried it on the range and was really hitting it flush. I brought it on the course and continued to hit it well. Most noticeably was in the zone inside 100 yards (sandwedge, gap wedge, etc.)

 

When I finished, I asked one of the pros what he thought of it and his response was "bad news". He called it starting out weak. What are your thoughts. If you are at the waiter or tray position at the top, isn't it ultimately a good position to be in? Thanks.

 

Got this from Crossfield and it was an eye opener. Lie your arm on a table and independently try and c0ck your wrist. The range of motion is pretty much nil. You can down c0ck your wrist quite a bit without flexing or extending your wrist but upwards no. So you better hinge your right wrist otherwise you have to cup the left. You might think you can c0ck your right wrist a lot but it’s pretty much all forearm rotation and hinging.

[Tax77]

Good move if you have range of motion issues with shoulders, c0ck and turn and let the arms get wide with a big body turn. 

[baudi]

Really enjoy 4 Magic Moves but the description of the wrist set is too extreme for me.

feel i strive for is radial deviation of the left wrist paired to bending the right elbow and right hand extension along motion of the left arm.

Edited September 9, 2020 by baudi