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Golf course charges fee for using your own pull cart

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  • dmac4gdmac4g Members Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The question you need to ask is how much do you like the golf course? If it is charging for using your own pull cart, I promise you times are tough. At this point they are looking for every possible stream of revenue they can find. You can either pay it and continue to enjoy the course, while making plans for somewhere else to play when the doors close.........or you can quit playing there today and make the move now. I am guessing that either way you will end up playing somewhere else in the not so distant future.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The OP implied but did not state that the alternative to the $15 push cart fee is paying $0 to walk and carry your bag. Is that correct?

    The only places I've ever heard of pulling stuff like that are the ones with caddie program they want to justify (oops, I meant "support") by forcing as many members as possible to take caddies. But this doesn't sound like a high-end club with caddies.

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  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy Sioux Falls, SDClubWRX Posts: 1,762 ClubWRX
    edited Aug 6, 2019 8:15pm #64

    @Hawkeye77 said:
    They can do what they please, but a per round "trail fee" for bringing one's own push cart is pretty lame.

    Whatever amount of revenue they forecast they might make off such a stupid fee could probably be exceeded by raising alcoholic beverage prices $.01.


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  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 22,224 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    OK, so what causes more damage? A 250 lb golfer carrying 20 lbs of clubs on his back, or a 250 lb golfer walking with a 30 lbs bag/pushcart spread across 3 wheels?

    A man walking exerts ~10 psi, as the weight is on one foot at a time. The pushcart is probably half that assuming a 2" x 1" contact point per wheel.

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 6,068 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ferguson said:
    How about if you use a friend's pull cart?

    Or just steal one when they aren't looking?

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 6,068 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @SNIPERBBB said:
    Out of curiosity...what is the cart fee? My course is 8 for 9 or 12 for 18...

    Wow! That's cheaper than any course I have ever played.

  • Bonneville85308Bonneville85308 Members Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 2:45am #68

    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 11:29am #69

    @Bonneville85308 said:
    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

    I think you've got the reasons behind it just about sussed out.

    Regardless of how they describe it, the $10 is equivalent to a greens fee. That makes the push-cart rental $5 and the riding cart rental $17-$20, both of those are in line with what public courses charge for push-carts and power carts.

    They just can't dare to describe the $10 as a green fee at a private course so they obfuscate the terminology.

    The retired guys at my club who play 5-6x a week and ride in cart must have staggering monthly bills. I think our cart rentals are $20 per round so at 20 rounds a month that's $400 just for the carts. Plus dues and food and so forth. Expensive game.

    P.S. I still suspect that the original poster's situation may involve some form of a "trail fee" or "greens fee" when carrying your bag without using a push cart. That would make his $15 number make a little more sense.

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  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 11:46am #70

    @KMeloney said:
    Do you folks really not "get it," or do you just not like it? The pull carts, like the actual carts, are a source of income. That income goes toward any number of things once the cost of the carts' purchase is paid off. If the club can't budget for that revenue, and the members expect that the course and its services are going to be maintained, then the cost of something else has to go up. It's pretty simple.

    Go ahead and have more members stop using the pull carts and regular carts. Decide that since you're a member, and you already paid dues, you all should be able to use your own stuff/carry your own bag and not have to pay a trail fee. See what happens to the club's revenue. And see what happens to your dues the following year.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone should like it. I don't like it, either. But to not "get it" is being short-sighted (clueless?) about operations, or just not wanting to get it in hopes that maybe it'll go away.

    Alright Internet Dad! Take your condescending tone somewhere else before you charge me for using my own keyboard on a forum.

    This is the kind of misguided thinking from clubs that leads to charges for using your own clubs just because the club has rentals, and they've outlaid for them, shock. No one should ever be forced to tolerate utter stupidity.

    Though I think it's worth saying that @KMeloney did mention he doesn't like it either.


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  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @TheInfidel said:
    Alright Internet Dad! Take your condescending tone somewhere else before you charge me for using my own keyboard on a forum.

    This is the kind of misguided thinking from clubs that leads to charges for using your own clubs just because the club has rentals, and they've outlaid for them, shock. No one should ever be forced to tolerate utter stupidity.

    Though I think it's worth saying that @KMeloney did mention he doesn't like it either.

    I certainly wasn't trying to be condescending like you are, but go ahead and pile on. Don't you think there's a huge difference between rallying against something because you don't like it vs you don't understand it? There's not much you can do to convince someone to like something when they don't -- but you can maybe help people understand the why behind something if they don't understand it. And then you can say you get it, but still hate it, and it's all good.

    One person's "nickel-and-diming" is another person's "cost of doing business." There's the guy who likes all-inclusive deals not because he is going to be able to eat and drink his face off, but because he doesn't want to have to think about the cost of everything. And then there's the guy who knows he won't eat and drink enough to make the price of the deal "worth it."

    Bringing it back to golf, it sounds like the cost of playing Pebble Beach is a similar matter of perspective and value, especially when the cost of staying overnight is part of the greens fee, and you don't want to stay overnight. Either way, the cost has gotten as high as it is because people are still willing to pay it.

  • macedanmacedan Members Posts: 367 ✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    @Bonneville85308 said:
    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

    I think you've got the reasons behind it just about sussed out.

    Regardless of how they describe it, the $10 is equivalent to a greens fee. That makes the push-cart rental $5 and the riding cart rental $17-$20, both of those are in line with what public courses charge for push-carts and power carts.

    They just can't dare to describe the $10 as a green fee at a private course so they obfuscate the terminology.

    The retired guys at my club who play 5-6x a week and ride in cart must have staggering monthly bills. I think our cart rentals are $20 per round so at 20 rounds a month that's $400 just for the carts. Plus dues and food and so forth. Expensive game.

    P.S. I still suspect that the original poster's situation may involve some form of a "trail fee" or "greens fee" when carrying your bag without using a push cart. That would make his $15 number make a little more sense.

    Just so I'm understanding this correctly, while members at a private club they are still paying for cart usage every round??? This is just so absurd to me as our club your dues cover unlimited play/pool/voting privileges, for an extra $70ish/month that includes cart usage, or you can bring your own and store it in the sheds for a similar monthly fee.

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  • Bonneville85308Bonneville85308 Members Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 1:35pm #73

    @macedan said:

    @North Butte said:

    @Bonneville85308 said:
    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

    I think you've got the reasons behind it just about sussed out.

    Regardless of how they describe it, the $10 is equivalent to a greens fee. That makes the push-cart rental $5 and the riding cart rental $17-$20, both of those are in line with what public courses charge for push-carts and power carts.

    They just can't dare to describe the $10 as a green fee at a private course so they obfuscate the terminology.

    The retired guys at my club who play 5-6x a week and ride in cart must have staggering monthly bills. I think our cart rentals are $20 per round so at 20 rounds a month that's $400 just for the carts. Plus dues and food and so forth. Expensive game.

    P.S. I still suspect that the original poster's situation may involve some form of a "trail fee" or "greens fee" when carrying your bag without using a push cart. That would make his $15 number make a little more sense.

    Just so I'm understanding this correctly, while members at a private club they are still paying for cart usage every round??? This is just so absurd to me as our club your dues cover unlimited play/pool/voting privileges, for an extra $70ish/month that includes cart usage, or you can bring your own and store it in the sheds for a similar monthly fee.

    At the club I described in my post, there were actually very few retired guys who played 125+ rounds per year like you find at many other clubs. The riding cart fees alone at that level of play would have been another $3,500+ to the annual cost. There was no ability to pay a set fee for an "unlimited carts" deal. Another club in the area did offer an "unlimited cart" package where the breakeven was probably around 75 rounds, another just baked it all into the dues and you could carry, ride, or push as much as you wanted without paying extra.

    Then again, someone who wanted to walk 2 rounds per weekend in season at one of the clubs that required caddies to walk would have been paying $4,000+ per year in caddie fees so maybe I'm just looking at money differently than them.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 2:08pm #74

    @macedan said:

    @North Butte said:

    @Bonneville85308 said:
    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

    I think you've got the reasons behind it just about sussed out.

    Regardless of how they describe it, the $10 is equivalent to a greens fee. That makes the push-cart rental $5 and the riding cart rental $17-$20, both of those are in line with what public courses charge for push-carts and power carts.

    They just can't dare to describe the $10 as a green fee at a private course so they obfuscate the terminology.

    The retired guys at my club who play 5-6x a week and ride in cart must have staggering monthly bills. I think our cart rentals are $20 per round so at 20 rounds a month that's $400 just for the carts. Plus dues and food and so forth. Expensive game.

    P.S. I still suspect that the original poster's situation may involve some form of a "trail fee" or "greens fee" when carrying your bag without using a push cart. That would make his $15 number make a little more sense.

    Just so I'm understanding this correctly, while members at a private club they are still paying for cart usage every round??? This is just so absurd to me as our club your dues cover unlimited play/pool/voting privileges, for an extra $70ish/month that includes cart usage, or you can bring your own and store it in the sheds for a similar monthly fee.

    No, our club doesn't offer any unlimited monthly cart subscription option. I don't know of any local clubs that do that, although there may be one somewhere in town. There are a few semi-private courses with some sort of yearly unlimited-golf-with-cart deals but not many.

    We've probably got three dozen long-time members who play 150+ rounds a year and always use carts. Offering them an option to pay $70/month (like your club) instead of three times that much would be a serious hit to revenue.

    Post edited by North Butte on
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  • macedanmacedan Members Posts: 367 ✭✭✭✭

    @Bonneville85308 said:

    @macedan said:

    @North Butte said:

    @Bonneville85308 said:
    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

    I think you've got the reasons behind it just about sussed out.

    Regardless of how they describe it, the $10 is equivalent to a greens fee. That makes the push-cart rental $5 and the riding cart rental $17-$20, both of those are in line with what public courses charge for push-carts and power carts.

    They just can't dare to describe the $10 as a green fee at a private course so they obfuscate the terminology.

    The retired guys at my club who play 5-6x a week and ride in cart must have staggering monthly bills. I think our cart rentals are $20 per round so at 20 rounds a month that's $400 just for the carts. Plus dues and food and so forth. Expensive game.

    P.S. I still suspect that the original poster's situation may involve some form of a "trail fee" or "greens fee" when carrying your bag without using a push cart. That would make his $15 number make a little more sense.

    Just so I'm understanding this correctly, while members at a private club they are still paying for cart usage every round??? This is just so absurd to me as our club your dues cover unlimited play/pool/voting privileges, for an extra $70ish/month that includes cart usage, or you can bring your own and store it in the sheds for a similar monthly fee.

    At the club I described in my post, there were actually very few retired guys who played 125+ rounds per year like you find at many other clubs. The riding cart fees alone at that level of play would have been another $3,500+ to the annual cost. There was no ability to pay a set fee for an "unlimited carts" deal. Another club in the area did offer an "unlimited cart" package where the breakeven was probably around 75 rounds, another just baked it all into the dues and you could carry, ride, or push as much as you wanted without paying extra.

    Then again, someone who wanted to walk 2 rounds per weekend in season at one of the clubs that required caddies to walk would have been paying $4,000+ per year in caddie fees so maybe I'm just looking at money differently than them.

    I guess I never really thought about just how few of our members play 2+ rounds/week. Everybody playing at that capacity would probably have a fairly significant toll I suppose.

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  • Mike_CMike_C Members Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    When I joined my current club back in 2013, they had just bought a bunch of new Sun Mountain push carts to rent. What they did was they would charge you $7.50 per round (maybe it was $10, can't remember 100%) to rent one, but forbid you from bringing your own... , that was utter total BS, it was being run by Clubcorp at the time (no longer is). I'm sure everyone who used a push cart complained, I sure did. Anyway, their push carts within a year were falling apart, brakes and baskets falling off, wheels working poorly, and nobody was renting them (many were no longer working anyway, so they would run out of them on some days), so they gave up on forcing you to use theirs, and then tried a short lived plan to charge you the same rate if you used your own, which was finally abandoned. Now I don't think they even have any push carts to rent..... I always have walked when its cool enough, as do some others, but in the summer here when the temps get up into the 90s+ we don't get many walkers anyway, it was just a way to try to raise revenue and **** off/alienate members.

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  • Cpr3584Cpr3584 Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭

    I am also told that staff members of the club, even high-ranking staff in marketing, etc must abide by certain guidelines and incur the same meaningless fees. An email reads that employees "may use practice range" if they pay $15 for 60 balls. Balls can only be given to staff members who pay for a round of golf. The email reads that "staff members who pay for a round of golf will be allotted 25 practice balls." The email reads like it was either written by a major league pr*** or in response to a staff member who was abusing privileges

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  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @KMeloney said:

    @TheInfidel said:
    Alright Internet Dad! Take your condescending tone somewhere else before you charge me for using my own keyboard on a forum.

    This is the kind of misguided thinking from clubs that leads to charges for using your own clubs just because the club has rentals, and they've outlaid for them, shock. No one should ever be forced to tolerate utter stupidity.

    Though I think it's worth saying that @KMeloney did mention he doesn't like it either.

    I certainly wasn't trying to be condescending like you are, but go ahead and pile on. Don't you think there's a huge difference between rallying against something because you don't like it vs you don't understand it? There's not much you can do to convince someone to like something when they don't -- but you can maybe help people understand the why behind something if they don't understand it. And then you can say you get it, but still hate it, and it's all good.

    One person's "nickel-and-diming" is another person's "cost of doing business." There's the guy who likes all-inclusive deals not because he is going to be able to eat and drink his face off, but because he doesn't want to have to think about the cost of everything. And then there's the guy who knows he won't eat and drink enough to make the price of the deal "worth it."

    Bringing it back to golf, it sounds like the cost of playing Pebble Beach is a similar matter of perspective and value, especially when the cost of staying overnight is part of the greens fee, and you don't want to stay overnight. Either way, the cost has gotten as high as it is because people are still willing to pay it.

    I think you make a good point on understanding a situation and your affinity for a situatuon. I'm not disputing that. I also don't think because members provide quick and decisive negative views on a topic they "don't get it". There may be nothing to get. Club X makes ridiculously stupid decision on push. Cart charges, members characterise it as very stupid. That's the full story.

    My point was based on the full understanding that a club is attempting to charge a player for the use of equipment they already own. Where would it end in your view? Charging to use your own clubs because they have rentals, charging to use your own balls because they sell lake, or charging to consume your own water because they have a fountain on hole 10?

    One man's nickel and diming is another man's road to golf club bankruptcy. People will vote with their feet and clubs like this go bust. Bad for the game of golf and bad for that local community who've lost a recreational asset.


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  • Cpr3584Cpr3584 Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭

    @TheInfidel said:

    @KMeloney said:

    @TheInfidel said:
    Alright Internet Dad! Take your condescending tone somewhere else before you charge me for using my own keyboard on a forum.

    This is the kind of misguided thinking from clubs that leads to charges for using your own clubs just because the club has rentals, and they've outlaid for them, shock. No one should ever be forced to tolerate utter stupidity.

    Though I think it's worth saying that @KMeloney did mention he doesn't like it either.

    I certainly wasn't trying to be condescending like you are, but go ahead and pile on. Don't you think there's a huge difference between rallying against something because you don't like it vs you don't understand it? There's not much you can do to convince someone to like something when they don't -- but you can maybe help people understand the why behind something if they don't understand it. And then you can say you get it, but still hate it, and it's all good.

    One person's "nickel-and-diming" is another person's "cost of doing business." There's the guy who likes all-inclusive deals not because he is going to be able to eat and drink his face off, but because he doesn't want to have to think about the cost of everything. And then there's the guy who knows he won't eat and drink enough to make the price of the deal "worth it."

    Bringing it back to golf, it sounds like the cost of playing Pebble Beach is a similar matter of perspective and value, especially when the cost of staying overnight is part of the greens fee, and you don't want to stay overnight. Either way, the cost has gotten as high as it is because people are still willing to pay it.

    I think you make a good point on understanding a situation and your affinity for a situatuon. I'm not disputing that. I also don't think because members provide quick and decisive negative views on a topic they "don't get it". There may be nothing to get. Club X makes ridiculously stupid decision on push. Cart charges, members characterise it as very stupid. That's the full story.

    My point was based on the full understanding that a club is attempting to charge a player for the use of equipment they already own. Where would it end in your view? Charging to use your own clubs because they have rentals, charging to use your own balls because they sell lake, or charging to consume your own water because they have a fountain on hole 10?

    One man's nickel and diming is another man's road to golf club bankruptcy. People will vote with their feet and clubs like this go bust. Bad for the game of golf and bad for that local community who've lost a recreational asset.

    I really couldn't agree more. It has really soured me from the game, dont even feel a desire to touch my clubs right now.

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  • Cpr3584Cpr3584 Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭

    I am also told that staff members of the club, even high-ranking staff in marketing, etc must abide by certain guidelines and incur the same meaningless fees. An email reads that employees "may use practice range" if they pay $15 for 60 balls. Balls can only be given to staff members who pay for a round of golf. The email reads that "staff members who pay for a round of golf will be allotted 25 practice balls." The email reads like it was either written by a major league pr*** or in response to a staff member who was abusing privileges

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  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 2:43pm #81

    @Cpr3584 said:
    I am also told that staff members of the club, even high-ranking staff in marketing, etc must abide by certain guidelines and incur the same meaningless fees. An email reads that employees "may use practice range" if they pay $15 for 60 balls. Balls can only be given to staff members who pay for a round of golf. The email reads that "staff members who pay for a round of golf will be allotted 25 practice balls." The email reads like it was either written by a major league pr*** or in response to a staff member who was abusing privileges

    Why would members be sent an email about what staff members can/can't do? Sounds like there's a lot of strange stuff going on at this club...

    Edit: Maybe you were just told about the email (that was sent to staff)...?

  • Cpr3584Cpr3584 Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭

    @KMeloney said:

    @Cpr3584 said:
    I am also told that staff members of the club, even high-ranking staff in marketing, etc must abide by certain guidelines and incur the same meaningless fees. An email reads that employees "may use practice range" if they pay $15 for 60 balls. Balls can only be given to staff members who pay for a round of golf. The email reads that "staff members who pay for a round of golf will be allotted 25 practice balls." The email reads like it was either written by a major league pr*** or in response to a staff member who was abusing privileges

    Why would members be sent an email about what staff members can/can't do? Sounds like there's a lot of strange stuff going on at this club...

    Edit: Maybe you were just told about the email (that was sent to staff)...?

    someone forwarded me the email

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  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 8,041 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Edaw68 said:
    If it's raining do you have to pay a fee to wear your own rain gear? What about if I brought my own sunscreen, do I have to rent a spot in the designated sunscreen application areas?

    you think that's rough...just wait till you get the Vitamin D tax. they mail it to you.

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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    When I first joined my club the monthly invoice had several nickel-and-dime things on it. Separate line item for range balls (not optional, mind you, required but not included in "dues") and a food minimum and a "renovation fee" which was an add-on to pay for a course renovation done years before I joined. Couple others, can't recall what they were.

    A couple years later they bumped up the dues by $25/month and eliminated all the nickel-and-dime line item add-ons. But as slowly and surely as a glacier moving they have gradually added them back on. Still haven't had the nerve to re-institute the range ball fee but I'd imagine it's coming any year now.

    Sigh. If someone isn't optional then it's part of the dues. Who do they think they are fooling by breaking it out into three or four separate charges, then adding them up and asking for payment?

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  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Haha Sounds like a lot of clubs. We have so many different demographics at my club that it's just impossible to please everyone. You've got the "Just stop with the assessments and raise my dues already" types, and also the "Wait a minute -- I don't use that, so I shouldn't have to pay for it" types -- and everything in between (and outside). Some of the qualities that make it a great club socially also make it tough to manage.

  • Cpr3584Cpr3584 Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭

    Yea, I am just going to have to pay the cart fee, its the most bang for my buck. Its still way to hot to walk, even with a pull cart. In the winter i'll just man up and pay the $15.

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  • RoodyRoody You ride her until she bucks you or don't ride at all Rochester, NYMembers Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like this could easily be solved by the course just building the extra $15 cost right into the total greens fees, instead of presenting it as an extra fee. Most people just scoff at the idea of feeling nickeled and dimed. I don't know what it is, but I think it's a psychological thing. I'm probably guilty of it myself.

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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The more and more I read about clubs and the different practices that go on, especially at clubs ran by corporate or corporate-like entities, the more I am interested in joining the local club here that only has a food and beverage minimum and dues as set fees. Everything else you want to get into is on your own dime and at your own choosing. They don't even rent carts as a part of the business model but have a handful for guest play. Most everyone has their own and stores it on-site or at their home if they live in the surrounding neighborhood.

  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers Posts: 15,924 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 8:09pm #89

    @macedan said:

    @North Butte said:

    @Bonneville85308 said:
    The last club I belonged to charged something like $15 to use one of their pull carts for 18 holes, and you could not bring your own even if it was a gold-plated Clicgear. They also charged something similar ($10?) as a "trail fee" to carry your own bag before 2pm. Riding cart was $27-$30ish. The non-mandatory caddie program fizzed out for lack of interest/use probably 5-6 years ago. The only way you could play for "free" was to carry your own bag after 2pm in-season or anytime in the offseason when it's 35 degrees out.
    After looking at these fees and similar nickel-and-dime ones the club had, I got the sense that they wanted to keep dues low because they had a lot of members who paid full golf membership dues but played very little. There were probably 75+ members paying the highest category of dues but who played 15 times or less per year. By charging everyone else who actually played often basically every time they went out one way or another, the people who paid dues but hardly used the club would be less inclined to quit. I. e. someone who played 12 times per year might have a monthly bill of $500, but the guy who played 3x a week and rode or took a push cart was going to have a bill of $900. They may have figured the guy who played 12 times might quit if the cart costs were baked into the dues and his bill was $800+. And they perhaps liked having members who paid dues but didn't show up. Just a theory.

    I think you've got the reasons behind it just about sussed out.

    Regardless of how they describe it, the $10 is equivalent to a greens fee. That makes the push-cart rental $5 and the riding cart rental $17-$20, both of those are in line with what public courses charge for push-carts and power carts.

    They just can't dare to describe the $10 as a green fee at a private course so they obfuscate the terminology.

    The retired guys at my club who play 5-6x a week and ride in cart must have staggering monthly bills. I think our cart rentals are $20 per round so at 20 rounds a month that's $400 just for the carts. Plus dues and food and so forth. Expensive game.

    P.S. I still suspect that the original poster's situation may involve some form of a "trail fee" or "greens fee" when carrying your bag without using a push cart. That would make his $15 number make a little more sense.

    Just so I'm understanding this correctly, while members at a private club they are still paying for cart usage every round??? This is just so absurd to me as our club your dues cover unlimited play/pool/voting privileges, for an extra $70ish/month that includes cart usage, or you can bring your own and store it in the sheds for a similar monthly fee.

    At my last two private clubs members paid for their seat in a golf cart each and every time, they took a cart to play. Your error is assuming club dues cover all club costs, they do not. Depending on the clubs charter, each club divides up department revenue like they separate initiation fees from monthly dues and capital expenditures from monthly operating expenses and grounds costs, etc. Leases for grounds equipment and golf carts typically come from different department budgets. Like the company cars I provide don't come from the same budget that capital goods come from.

    I had my own golf cart so didn't pay a cart fee but annually paid a $750 trail fee. When I played I pulled up and waited to tee off. The starter would ask if so/so could ride with me, I'd say sure. That person still paid a cart fee to the club even riding in my cart. The club has to make money to support its lifestyle and members did what they could to help that, knowing we pay one way or another.

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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers Posts: 15,924 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roody said:
    Sounds like this could easily be solved by the course just building the extra $15 cost right into the total greens fees, instead of presenting it as an extra fee. Most people just scoff at the idea of feeling nickeled and dimed. I don't know what it is, but I think it's a psychological thing. I'm probably guilty of it myself.

    As I said before many clubs separate cart and pull cart rental out of the P&L as it goes in some fashion, to the Head-Pro, pro-shop staff and cart barn staff. The idea is to keep payroll costs to a minimum. Private clubs typically like to bring in people that have been long-time members of other private clubs, as they understand private club life. Newbies to private clubs often feel like you describe, as if nickel dimed. They also don't realize how much all the little costs run up the overall cost of membership. Part of that problem may be the result of never building a budget to see what pays for what. Having run a P&L for fifty years, and know how the process works I never had those issues.

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  • caniac6caniac6 Members Posts: 2,942 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The semi private club where I belong hired a management company last fall. They wanted to charge all members a walking fee. I play almost every day, monday-friday. If they had done that, I would have quit, and joined a private club. I understand the need to generate income, but courses need to do it in a way where the members don't feel like they are being nickled and dimed.

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