who has actually played with a legit scratch golfer/pro level player?

[hgtiger24]

I play pretty regularly with a 1 handicap, plus 1 handicap, and a lady on the symmetra tour.

I get absolutely shit stomped every single time...by all of them. the amazing thing is the difference in approaches for all of them.

I hit the ball long - 126 driver speed. the plus 1 is at least a club longer than me on every single shot. sometimes 2. he hoods everything and just launches it.

1 handicap is a "short" dead center ho hum par player. every damn time. he probably hits it 270 off the tee. in the left half of the fairway then lobs a five iron to 10 feet. has as shot at birdie almost every hole. takes par 5s as 3 shotters and lays up to go zones.

symmertra tour lady smacks it pretty good upwards of 250 for sure. if she plays from the tips with us, she cant make eagle/birdie all the time, but she beats 1 handicap most times, and me every time. her short game is legitimately amazing. shes looking at making chips and ALWAYS gets up and down.

playing with them has really helped my game - yes, i want to take on pins i have no business taking on, but understanding WHEN to fire and why i shouldnt is a huge deal. i hit a moonshot balls and work the ball both directions - people that dont golf get impressed, but i get humbled every time i play with them.

maybe one day i'll get them all drunk enough to have a chance

[ctsgolf]

One of my golfing buddies is playing to a 0.2 right now. He doesn't do anything spectacular. Hits a lot of fairways, greens, and doesn't make too many mistakes with his putter. His wedge game is pretty inconsistent.

[Kevlar10]

I first played with a Div. 1 golfer when I was in college. I was truly amazed at how he could shape shots and really control the ball flight. He, unfortunately lacked discipline and had little interest in playing at a level higher than college. Last time we played was a couple years ago and he still could do amazing things but just liked to get out and play occasionally. I wish I had half of his ability.

[North Butte]

In my usual group the lowest handicaps are generally around 4-5, although there are couple of near-scratch guys who might join us once in a while.

 

A former club I belonged to had one guy who was a legit plus-handicap (had played in some big state-level tournaments over the years, etc) who would play in the weekend roll-up games with us sometimes. I always enjoyed getting paired with him, it's interesting to watch how someone who is totally confident about his basic ball-striking and short game goes about a round.

 

Those of us with dodgy swings and double-digit handicaps seem to let a surprising amount of our "course management" (such as it is) be based on avoiding this or that obstacle or trying to play away from personal nemesis disaster shots. Really good players can actually make risk/reward judgments on a lot of shots because they know their misses are going to be just misses and not wild shots. And they are handy enough with a wedge that being in the rough with a bad angle to the hole location is managable as long as they're inside 100 yards or so.

 

There's a member at my current club who I very occasionally get to play a round with. Back in the day he was a heck of a player (many times club champion, etc) although his game has declined a bit as he nears 80. But he doesn't mind me asking the occasional question about, "Where are you aiming to land this ball" or "Did you take a little spin off that on purpose". In fact, he seems to kind of enjoy sharing his insights, even with someone like me who lacks the basic technique and skill to do most of what he does.

[Mcgeeno]

I'm in the 2 or 3 range and usually feel pretty good about my game being paired with 99 percent of golfers.

 

That being said, I played with two guys I grew up playing junior golf with who are currently +2 and +3 handicap teaching professionals. Met up with them on their home course for a fun round while I was travelling out of town.

 

The gap in skill between myself and what they could do with a golf ball felt like me playing with an 18 handicap. Longer, straighter, different sound. Dispersion was awesome. Almost all their shots were under control and the perfect trajectory.

 

I actually beat the +2 that day but I made about 120 feet of putts and kind of dorked my way around the course while watching these guys hit incredible shots all day. Scratch golfers are amazing...But a legit + handicap golfer who has posted tournament rounds and takes it under par more often than not is just a different animal.

[North Butte]

> @Mcgeeno said:

> I'm in the 2 or 3 range and usually feel pretty good about my game being paired with 99 percent of golfers.

>

> That being said, I played with two guys I grew up playing junior golf with who are currently +2 and +3 handicap teaching professionals. Met up with them on their home course for a fun round while I was travelling out of town.

>

> The gap in skill between myself and what they could do with a golf ball felt like me playing with an 18 handicap. Longer, straighter, different sound. Dispersion was awesome. Almost all their shots were under control and the perfect trajectory.

>

> I actually beat the +2 that day but I made about 120 feet of putts and kind of dorked my way around the course while watching these guys hit incredible shots all day. Scratch golfers are amazing...But a legit + handicap golfer who has posted tournament rounds and takes it under par more often than not is just a different animal.

 

My teaching pro buddy told me years ago, when I'm a beginner, that the guys you can really learn a lot by watching aren't the golfers who are a 9 hcp when you're an 18. It's the guys he called "good golfers" which he defined and being able to shoot par or better from the tips with serious money (or tournament) on the line.

 

By that definition I've only played with maybe a dozen or so "good golfers" in my life and every one of them was as you describe, just playing a different game and making a different kind of contact with the golf ball.

 

He said he never would have been a decent player at all if he hadn't spent a couple summers during high school losing every dollar he made at his part time job playing straight-up with a group of plus-handicap "sticks" at the course near his home. The first time he was able to post a 69 and win money instead of losing he knew he might have a future in the game.

[Johnny Biarritz]

Late to the show here...but yes, huge difference in a scratch player and a pro level player. Plus, a "scratch" handicap and the ability to shoot par or better doesn't always correlate depending on the course. Shooting "scratch" at Bethpage is about 80 given the rating and slope. I've played with pro level guys, but never getting paired with them randomly. The best player I've ever been paired with by chance was in Alaska, of all places. He was the 3 or 4 time defending Alaska Senior Amateur champion and was playing a practice round for the tournament that started a couple days later. He could play really well, but not jaw dropping. The pro at a club where I was a member about 15 years ago has won a bunch of club pro tournaments in North Carolina and I played with him one day where he shot 67 with no shoes on. I'm a 2-5 handicap player, it's rare that I'm paired with someone who's better than I am.

[Tony_Ireland]

> @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> Late to the show here...but yes, huge difference in a scratch player and a pro level player. Plus, a "scratch" handicap and the ability to shoot par or better doesn't always correlate depending on the course. Shooting "scratch" at Bethpage is about 80 given the rating and slope. I've played with pro level guys, but never getting paired with them randomly. The best player I've ever been paired with by chance was in Alaska, of all places. He was the 3 or 4 time defending Alaska Senior Amateur champion and was playing a practice round for the tournament that started a couple days later. He could play really well, but not jaw dropping. The pro at a club where I was a member about 15 years ago has won a bunch of club pro tournaments in North Carolina and I played with him one day where he shot 67 with no shoes on. I'm a 2-5 handicap player, it's rare that I'm paired with someone who's better than I am.

 

Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > Late to the show here...but yes, huge difference in a scratch player and a pro level player. Plus, a "scratch" handicap and the ability to shoot par or better doesn't always correlate depending on the course. Shooting "scratch" at Bethpage is about 80 given the rating and slope. I've played with pro level guys, but never getting paired with them randomly. The best player I've ever been paired with by chance was in Alaska, of all places. He was the 3 or 4 time defending Alaska Senior Amateur champion and was playing a practice round for the tournament that started a couple days later. He could play really well, but not jaw dropping. The pro at a club where I was a member about 15 years ago has won a bunch of club pro tournaments in North Carolina and I played with him one day where he shot 67 with no shoes on. I'm a 2-5 handicap player, it's rare that I'm paired with someone who's better than I am.

>

> Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

 

Officially, I'm a 3.2. Over the past 10 or so years, I've drifted between 1.X and somewhere north of 8.

[Mcgeeno]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

 

You've never seen anyone drift between 2 and 5?

 

I think the Canadian system must be different. I literally fluctuate between 2-5 all season long. Our caps are updated in real time and if you have a week or two cold streak/hot streak it moves up and down in a hurry. Lose your best differential and you can move up close to a point for sure.

 

Right now I'm a 2.5 last week I was a 3.4

 

My main golfing buddy fluctuates the exact same. We play close to 4-5 rounds a week so it really doesnt take much to move it in either direction when you put your score in and it changes instantly.

[Mcgeeno]

This is over a 90 day period (The last 30 days shows the more drastic drop)

 

 

[GolfChannel]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > Late to the show here...but yes, huge difference in a scratch player and a pro level player. Plus, a "scratch" handicap and the ability to shoot par or better doesn't always correlate depending on the course. Shooting "scratch" at Bethpage is about 80 given the rating and slope. I've played with pro level guys, but never getting paired with them randomly. The best player I've ever been paired with by chance was in Alaska, of all places. He was the 3 or 4 time defending Alaska Senior Amateur champion and was playing a practice round for the tournament that started a couple days later. He could play really well, but not jaw dropping. The pro at a club where I was a member about 15 years ago has won a bunch of club pro tournaments in North Carolina and I played with him one day where he shot 67 with no shoes on. I'm a 2-5 handicap player, it's rare that I'm paired with someone who's better than I am.

>

> Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

 

Same, I have fluctuated from a 1.8 up to a 4.2 throughout the season. Currently a 2.2, but starting HS Golf season on Monday so coaching will take away from focus on my own game and the darkness will rise. C'est la vie...

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @Mcgeeno said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

>

> You've never seen anyone drift between 2 and 5?

>

> I think the Canadian system must be different. I literally fluctuate between 2-5 all season long. Our caps are updated in real time and if you have a week or two cold streak/hot streak it moves up and down in a hurry. Lose your best differential and you can move up close to a point for sure.

>

> Right now I'm a 2.5 last week I was a 3.4

>

> My main golfing buddy fluctuates the exact same. We play close to 4-5 rounds a week so it really doesnt take much to move it in either direction when you put your score in and it changes instantly.

 

The last line is the kicker...Yeah, if you're playing 4-5 rounds a week where it only takes 4-5 weeks to completely cycle through your scores, handicaps can fluctuate a lot. I've played in leagues where only league scores counted, so it would take at least 10 weeks (if you played every time) to cycle through scores since we'd play twice a week. But yes, generally speaking, handicaps can go up and down pretty fast in the American system if you play a lot.

[Tony_Ireland]

> @Mcgeeno said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

>

> You've never seen anyone drift between 2 and 5?

>

> I think the Canadian system must be different. I literally fluctuate between 2-5 all season long. Our caps are updated in real time and if you have a week or two cold streak/hot streak it moves up and down in a hurry. Lose your best differential and you can move up close to a point for sure.

>

> Right now I'm a 2.5 last week I was a 3.4

>

> My main golfing buddy fluctuates the exact same. We play close to 4-5 rounds a week so it really doesnt take much to move it in either direction when you put your score in and it changes instantly.

 

Nope. It would take 3-4 yrs of consistently bad golf to drift out from a 2 to 5 over here. You just said “now i am a 2.5 last week i was a 3.4”. Playing hcap 3

[Tony_Ireland]

Wait, are you telling me if you play off 3, u play bad in a comp they just bump u up instantly to a 5 or 6? Lol

[Mcgeeno]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> Wait, are you telling me if you play off 3, u play bad in a comp they just bump u up instantly to a 5 or 6? Lol

 

I have fluctuated .8 or on the good/bad side depending on how things work out with one single round (That crappy graph I posted shows a little bit over the 90 days how quickly it can move). I was a 2.0 on June 6th and a 4.0 on July 9th.

 

Today I'm a 3. Next week I could be a 4 or a 2. It can literally change over the course of a week with the Golf Canada system as you submit your scores.

 

 

[Strömsborg]

Played the first 36 holes of my club championship yesterday. Had a 1.5-cap in my group, nothing special, but he was the first guy I ever played with that had true tour level distances. North of 120 mph with the driver and some of his drives were 50-60 yards past mine. Moon shots with unbelievable hang time. He hit 7-iron over the green on a 200 yard par 3. 8-iron to pin high on a 186 yard par 3. Sea level, 60°F.

We have a short crescent shaped par 5, trees all he way on the inside of the bend to the left and a pond to the right. If you hit your drive 270 with a hard draw between the trees and the pond you will have around 185 left to the flag and that's how the good players usually do it. Keep it in the air 280 and you will fly the pond if you push it but end up in the thick stuff.

This guy however blasted his drives straight ahead, over the pond and onto the next fairway, 300 yards carry. Took me a few seconds to realise he did it on purpose. It was the safe play he reckoned.

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> > @Mcgeeno said:

> > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

> >

> > You've never seen anyone drift between 2 and 5?

> >

> > I think the Canadian system must be different. I literally fluctuate between 2-5 all season long. Our caps are updated in real time and if you have a week or two cold streak/hot streak it moves up and down in a hurry. Lose your best differential and you can move up close to a point for sure.

> >

> > Right now I'm a 2.5 last week I was a 3.4

> >

> > My main golfing buddy fluctuates the exact same. We play close to 4-5 rounds a week so it really doesnt take much to move it in either direction when you put your score in and it changes instantly.

>

> Nope. It would take 3-4 yrs of consistently bad golf to drift out from a 2 to 5 over here. You just said “now i am a 2.5 last week i was a 3.4”. Playing hcap 3

 

Where do you play? How many scores do you post and how often? In the American system the only way your handicap doesn't fluctuate is if you don't play. If you play once a week, your scores will completely cycle over 2.5 times in a year. It's possible for handicaps to change a huge amount. Just curious...if it takes 3-4 years to go from a 2 to a 5, does it take equally as long to go from 5 to 2?

[Strömsborg]

> @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > @Mcgeeno said:

> > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

> > >

> > > You've never seen anyone drift between 2 and 5?

> > >

> > > I think the Canadian system must be different. I literally fluctuate between 2-5 all season long. Our caps are updated in real time and if you have a week or two cold streak/hot streak it moves up and down in a hurry. Lose your best differential and you can move up close to a point for sure.

> > >

> > > Right now I'm a 2.5 last week I was a 3.4

> > >

> > > My main golfing buddy fluctuates the exact same. We play close to 4-5 rounds a week so it really doesnt take much to move it in either direction when you put your score in and it changes instantly.

> >

> > Nope. It would take 3-4 yrs of consistently bad golf to drift out from a 2 to 5 over here. You just said “now i am a 2.5 last week i was a 3.4”. Playing hcap 3

>

> Where do you play? How many scores do you post and how often? In the American system the only way your handicap doesn't fluctuate is if you don't play. If you play once a week, your scores will completely cycle over 2.5 times in a year. It's possible for handicaps to change a huge amount. Just curious...if it takes 3-4 years to go from a 2 to a 5, does it take equally as long to go from 5 to 2?

 

Tony_Ireland might better explain how it works in Ireland, but I think it works generally the same in all of Europe and in Sweden we do like this: you don't calculate your handicap from an average but rather adjust it with each individual round, and upwards only in competition and only by 0.1 per 18 holes. So going from 2 to 5 means playing below your standards for 30 straight competitive rounds. That equals several years for most golfers.

We use the stableford system and for every point over 36 you lower your handicap by between 0.1 if you are below 4.4 (handicap group 1) and 0.5 if you are between 26.5 and 36 (handicap group 5). There are of course also groups 2-4 that adjust by 0.2 to 0.4 per point.

That means that you can downwards pretty fast, but upwards takes years. Take my club championship this weekend as an example: I played very well Saturday and shot 72 and 71 on par 70 for 40 and 40 stableford points and lowered my handicap from 4.0 to 3.2. On Sunday in the final round I was back to my usual self, even worse actually, and needed 80 strokes. That meant 32 points and my handicap was up to 3.3. And it will take another seven bad rounds to get back to 4.0. That likely means sometime in 2020.

 

But of course that will not happen since from 2020 the whole world will use the same system - calculating our handicaps from the 8 best of the previous 20 rounds.

[North Butte]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> Wait, are you telling me if you play off 3, u play bad in a comp they just bump u up instantly to a 5 or 6? Lol

 

If you're a 2.5 index and post a couple of bad scores you'll be a 3.4 and if you post couple more bad scores you could end up at 4.5 or even higher depending on what scores dropped off your "most recent 20 scores".

 

With the exception of some "T score" stuff (that's going away allegedly) there's no memory or inertia to ones USGA handicap beyond the most recent 20 scores you've posted. For a guy play 5x a week then he could have been Scratch a month ago and be a 6 hcp today. And a month from now he could be a +2.

 

Of course few low handicappers are that wildly variable from month to month. But a swing of 2-3 strokes over a period of a few weeks is not uncommon.

[httr]

A friend of mine plays on Tour. There is a bigger difference between a tour pro and a scratch golfer than a scratch golfer and an 18 handicapper. Our club hosts a Korn Ferry (just so awful) event. The local scratch guys always try to qualify and they get their butts kicked. Play from the tips with difficult pin positions on rolled and much faster than normal greens. It gets hard in a hurry. Then the Korn Ferry (OMG, just dreadful) guys shoot low 60s.

After hanging with him during practice one day, I asked him if he ever hit a bad shot. He says, "Unless I'm under tournament pressure, no."

[Loki]

No love for the Korn Ferry players, httr?

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @Loki said:

> No love for the Korn Ferry players, httr?

 

I think it's probably commentary on the name of the tour now. Which is terrible.

[Loki]

Okay, if you read it in that context, I guess it does.

[httr]

Yes. I hate the new name of the tour. I'd like to petition to rename it back to The Hogan Tour.

[Loki]

You mean, "The Hogan Golf Club Manufacturing Tour, sponsored by Korn Ferry?"

 

:D

[North Butte]

They could call it the Kornhole Tour.

[httr]

Yes, it was Hogan's golf company (which was first sold in 1960), but at least it sounded dignified.

[Tony_Ireland]

> @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > @Mcgeeno said:

> > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > Can someone explain to me what a "2-5 hcap player" is? Like are you a 2 or a 5, or do you not have an official hcap? Dont think ive ever seen anyone drift from a 2 to a 5 unless they developed a serious health issue/age etc etc

> > >

> > > You've never seen anyone drift between 2 and 5?

> > >

> > > I think the Canadian system must be different. I literally fluctuate between 2-5 all season long. Our caps are updated in real time and if you have a week or two cold streak/hot streak it moves up and down in a hurry. Lose your best differential and you can move up close to a point for sure.

> > >

> > > Right now I'm a 2.5 last week I was a 3.4

> > >

> > > My main golfing buddy fluctuates the exact same. We play close to 4-5 rounds a week so it really doesnt take much to move it in either direction when you put your score in and it changes instantly.

> >

> > Nope. It would take 3-4 yrs of consistently bad golf to drift out from a 2 to 5 over here. You just said “now i am a 2.5 last week i was a 3.4”. Playing hcap 3

>

> Where do you play? How many scores do you post and how often? In the American system the only way your handicap doesn't fluctuate is if you don't play. If you play once a week, your scores will completely cycle over 2.5 times in a year. It's possible for handicaps to change a huge amount. Just curious...if it takes 3-4 years to go from a 2 to a 5, does it take equally as long to go from 5 to 2?

 

I play in Ireland (Europe). You can go from a 5 to 2 in a mater of 4 or 5 competitions if you score really well. If you dont hit the buffer zone in a comp you receive a 0.1 adjustment back to your handicap.

 

Example: Monday I played a competition and shot -2 (70) gross, so nett 68 as I play off 2.

CSS for the day was 72 so I got cut from 1.6 to 1.2.

Going by your system I could jump from 2 handicap to a +2 in one competition with a really good score??

 

Only competitive rounds, you cant lose or gain strokes for casual golf.

 

[Mcgeeno]

 

> @Tony_Ireland said:

 

> I play in Ireland (Europe). You can go from a 5 to 2 in a mater of 4 or 5 competitions if you score really well. If you dont hit the buffer zone in a comp you receive a 0.1 adjustment back to your handicap.

>

> Example: Monday I played a competition and shot -2 (70) gross, so nett 68 as I play off 2.

> CSS for the day was 72 so I got cut from 1.6 to 1.2.

> Going by your system I could jump from 2 handicap to a +2 in one competition with a really good score??

>

> Only competitive rounds, you cant lose or gain strokes for casual golf.

>

 

No we could never move 4.0 in one round.

 

Its a rolling average of your 10 best scores out of your last 20. Not just competition rounds though, all rounds played.

 

I'm currently a 3.0 and went up from a 2.7 due to a poor round yesterday.

 

I could be a 4.0 or a 2.0 by next Monday depending on how I play for example.