Playing for Bogey on a Tough Par 4

[SNIPERBBB]

One thing I'll mention here as a reminder for planning. When making plans you need to plan for what your tendencies for various scenarios are and not what the perfect shot is and not planning for pure mishits(chunks, skulls, Los hosels,tops etc)

[Eric267]

Yep. There's a par 4 at my home course 440 from the blues with a trap across the whole fairway about 10-15 yards in front of the green. Really wide fairway from the tbox that angles into the green lined with trees and overhanging branches on both sides. Over the green is OB. Seen more people put up huge numbers on this hole and only see people par it 25% of the time or so.

 

Strategy is driver/3wood off the tee then 7 iron to about 10 or so yards short of the trap. Leaves me a 60° wedge in from around 35yards to hopefully get up and down. Walking away with a tap in 5 is fine by me.

 

A 3 hybrid can get me on in 2 but it has to land soft since right off the back is ob. If your off line at all on your approach it's likely to catch the pine trees and possibly drop with no angle to the green. If you come up short the trap is a bitch since you have a steep lip but sill have to carry another 10-15 yd to the green. Seeing people blade it out of the trap into the woods is a pretty common occurrence.

 

I've learned to "take my medicine" and just be happy with a 4 20-25% of the time and a 5 the rest. Isn't so bad when you watch your partners try to just go for it and end up 6-8

 

 

 

[lchang]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Not a par 4 but a par 5 and recent changes to the hole has me in debate mode everytime I come to the hole. It's 479 from the tees I normally play. Fairway is 10yards wide the entire way. You have 10 yards on either side before you hit the no-mow in each side. It's on the side of a hill that slopes right to left with the fairway being a flat spot in the middle of this hillside. There is a huge tree on the left side of the fairway about 220 out from the green and it's limbs block half the fairway.

>

> You could layup short of the tree, though if you pull the ball left of the fairway at all it's in the nomow. You can hit driver over the trees above the fairway right and bounce the ball to the fairway, but your fighting OB right or the no-mow if you block or fade too much.

>

> Lately I've just been hitting driver and hoping it stays straight to give me 150 or less to the green which is two tiered that runs front to back with the right higher than the left.

 

Sorry--this is probably not helpful--but this and the OP's hole sound like distasteful hole design! (at least IMO!)

[SNIPERBBB]

> @lchang said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Not a par 4 but a par 5 and recent changes to the hole has me in debate mode everytime I come to the hole. It's 479 from the tees I normally play. Fairway is 10yards wide the entire way. You have 10 yards on either side before you hit the no-mow in each side. It's on the side of a hill that slopes right to left with the fairway being a flat spot in the middle of this hillside. There is a huge tree on the left side of the fairway about 220 out from the green and it's limbs block half the fairway.

> >

> > You could layup short of the tree, though if you pull the ball left of the fairway at all it's in the nomow. You can hit driver over the trees above the fairway right and bounce the ball to the fairway, but your fighting OB right or the no-mow if you block or fade too much.

> >

> > Lately I've just been hitting driver and hoping it stays straight to give me 150 or less to the green which is two tiered that runs front to back with the right higher than the left.

>

> Sorry--this is probably not helpful--but this and the OP's hole sound like distasteful hole design! (at least IMO!)

 

The green design was fubard. The design was supposed to be turned around but they hit rock under the tree and the course didn't have the money to excavate or explode it out. Been trying to get the new owner to turn it into a par 4

[smashdn]

Here's another hole that eats my lunch every time I play it. The fairway is on the spine of a ridge. The cart path that goes down the right hand side is anywhere from 15 to 20 foot below the fairway. The tree line on the opposite side is only about 5 foot below the fairway but is OB. If you go long you are OB. If you come up short it hits and rolls down to the cart path or you have a hanging lie well below your feet. You have to tack your way down that spine to keep it in play. I want to say the last time I played it I went 7i three times and then pitched on. It is a par five though but it gets to your point of having to play for bogey to keep from making a huge number. I am going to say this is what you end up with on a severe property on a state park project where the budget doesn't allow you to move ground like you need to.

 

 

 

 

 

[dayvei214]

> @Enduro59 said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > Obviously pros do this on the 72nd hole with the lead. I've also heard of guys "laying up" for their second shot on a very long par 4 if their drive doesn't give them a good chance of getting it on in 2 and there are hazards around the green.

> >

> > However, does anyone basically play for bogey off the tee?

> >

> > There is one par 4 where I play that is tough. Off the tee there is a) OB all the way down the left side, b) creek / waste area that cuts across the fairway so can't hit driver, and c) pond on the right side of the fairway. The hole also narrows somewhat the farther down towards the creek/waste area you go.

> >

> > The last five rounds I've hit 5-iron / 5-iron / flick sand wedge and got a bogey each time. When playing it "normal" I've made pars and an odd birdie but also a lot of doubles and triples.

> >

> > Wondering if anyone has found the conservative strategy to be more successful and stuck with it for an extended period of time? I usually don't take an "avoid looking dumb/bad shot" strategy at all times. However, here the biggest problem is off the tee, and the advantage of hitting a 5-iron is that I can't reach the pond and the OB is much more difficult to hit into on the 5-iron distance/line.

> >

> > Obviously, I can play both ways 10-20 times in a row and see what wins out (I don't have the historical data from my prior rounds hole by hole). I may also try hitting two 7-woods, which could probably get me on the green some of the time (I need to see what this is like off the tee though). I also realize the strategy here may vary by skill level...

>

> I stumbled across a guy from South Africa on YouTube videos called The golf sidekick. He thinks it's a good idea for anyone with handicaps not in the single digits to do what you are asking about. Sometimes he recommends it for all golfers on certain holes. Mostly he stresses putting your 2nd shot in a safe place, avoiding all trouble. Also I guess now that I think of it he stresses hitting a club off the tee that no matter how short it is will not get you in trouble. This summer after buying into his approach 100% I have completely eliminated big numbers from my scorecard. (Fewer penalty strokes and punch-outs) Might be worth checking out the sidekick on YouTube just for grins.

 

Love that guy! Waddaplaya!

I think for me it would depend on the day. If I'm driving it well I would go for it. That is also why Ive been sitting at 13 for the last year... Trying to play smart golf is hard! First thought on the tee box for me = tiger line + hero shot = bogey =angry golf

[Bad9]

> @jvincent said:

> Trouble on the sides? Just hit it straighter!

>

 

LOL reminds me of a conversation in the cc years ago. Best player at the club, multiple winner, but a first class jackass. Just unpleasant to be around in general. His daughter(about 21yrs or so at the time) was caddying for him and hit on into woods on the left and starts to rant about everything and how hard it was going to be to make par(par 5) from where he hit it. In a total deadpan voice she says to him'Well don't hit it there then" picks up his bag and starts walking up the fairway. Pretty much everyone just busts out laughing. Another time he went on a rant she put down his bag and walked off the course.

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

You don't mention yardages just club choices. It's hard to put your dilemma into perspective. If I face a long 460yd par 4, been known to look at that type hole as a short Par 5 and play for birdie. A 245+ yard drive, 195-218 yard 3-2 iron in, but if I miss the green left, that's when I depend on my ability to get up and down which saves Par and that fantasy birdie.

 

I have played as little as 4 iron off few par 4 holes, but that seldom happens on 400+ Par 4 holes. If the tee option presents itself, been known to use 2-3 iron due to fairway obstacles. Thankfully, though, my driver is very straight.

[James the Hogan Fan]

This is the 15th at the Tapiola Golf Club in Espoo, Finland. A straightaway par 4 of 460 yards from the back tees with a ditch protecting the otherwise well-bunkered green. The ditch is more marsh than true creek, and most balls that go in it are playable if findable. The green itself has an upper and lower tier, and the flag is often tucked behind the bunker on the left. From the wrong tier, one hopes for a 3-putt at best. The hole plays into the wind most days and the slopes and hills involved mean an approach from the right side if the landing zone is blind. It's a beast.

But I don't lay up if I can help it. One, always driver. The fairway is wide and there isn't a big lost ball danger. Might as well try to get as close as we can.

 

So that puts me at the 225 marker more or less depending on wind. Now I'm gonna blast 5w. Why? because if I lay up I can't be sure the wedge won't be in trouble. At least with 5w I'll be closer to the green.

 

When I play for bogey on this hole I mostly make 6, sometimes 5, as of yet no 4's. I have two 4's from the direct approach method. (also some 7's)

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> You don't mention yardages just club choices. It's hard to put your dilemma into perspective.

I thought if I mentioned the yardages the responses would be greatly influenced by how far someone hits the ball. The hole is only ~400 yards. The problem is the creek/hazard area starts at about 230 so I can't hit a driver (can reach but have no hope to carry it at 300 yards). The landing area also gets narrower between the OB left and pond right from ~190 to ~230 off the tee (where the creek starts).

 

If you are a big hitter, this hole isn't hard. Either fly everything or it's probably like a 5-iron and a 9-iron on. But just change the yardages for them and the strategy question is the same.

 

As you and others have said, I'd agree there's no reason to lay up on just a long, hard par 4 in the absence of stroke costing penalty hazards/OB.

 

If I was really accurate, I could hit a 4W and a 5-iron on. Maybe I can hit two 7Ws on although I am pretty sure this brings the penalties into play off the tee. Two 5-irons and a flick sand wedge means the tee shot is quite safe but there is virtually no chance to reach the green.

[farmer]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Not a par 4 but a par 5 and recent changes to the hole has me in debate mode everytime I come to the hole. It's 479 from the tees I normally play. Fairway is 10yards wide the entire way. You have 10 yards on either side before you hit the no-mow in each side. It's on the side of a hill that slopes right to left with the fairway being a flat spot in the middle of this hillside. There is a huge tree on the left side of the fairway about 220 out from the green and it's limbs block half the fairway.

>

> You could layup short of the tree, though if you pull the ball left of the fairway at all it's in the nomow. You can hit driver over the trees above the fairway right and bounce the ball to the fairway, but your fighting OB right or the no-mow if you block or fade too much.

>

> Lately I've just been hitting driver and hoping it stays straight to give me 150 or less to the green which is two tiered that runs front to back with the right higher than the left.

 

Seriously 10 yds, or does it just seem like 10 yds? If it's really just 10 yds, you're playing down a cart path. Poor, poor design.

[MaxBuck]

This is a strategy that I'd almost never employ in a casual round but might favor in tournament play. That may be a reason that my tournament scores tend to be relatively good.

[SNIPERBBB]

> @farmer said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Not a par 4 but a par 5 and recent changes to the hole has me in debate mode everytime I come to the hole. It's 479 from the tees I normally play. Fairway is 10yards wide the entire way. You have 10 yards on either side before you hit the no-mow in each side. It's on the side of a hill that slopes right to left with the fairway being a flat spot in the middle of this hillside. There is a huge tree on the left side of the fairway about 220 out from the green and it's limbs block half the fairway.

> >

> > You could layup short of the tree, though if you pull the ball left of the fairway at all it's in the nomow. You can hit driver over the trees above the fairway right and bounce the ball to the fairway, but your fighting OB right or the no-mow if you block or fade too much.

> >

> > Lately I've just been hitting driver and hoping it stays straight to give me 150 or less to the green which is two tiered that runs front to back with the right higher than the left.

>

> Seriously 10 yds, or does it just seem like 10 yds? If it's really just 10 yds, you're playing down a cart path. Poor, poor design.

 

Here's the Google map coordinates...

 

38.8281655, -82.1784867

[MtlJeff]

There's a par 4 at my course that many people play as a "par 5" depending on how their drive goes. It's one of the toughest par 4's anywhere, i would say the toughest stroke play hole i've ever played without question . It's a 400yd 90 degree dogleg that cannot be cut or carried. And there's OB long off the tee so you basically have to lay up to a 180-220yd approach. The approach is to a small green that was originally built for a par 5, and that has OB right (5 yards from the green) AND left (15yds left of the green). It's probably the most demanding 2nd shot into a par 4 of any course i've ever played.

 

If guys have 190+ in to the green in our CC, many will hit wedge, wedge.

[LeftDaddy]

I’ve debated this many times, and have done the math in my head, and have read books on the strategy. I think that the basic conclusion is that you cost yourself too many strokes over time by laying up, if for no other reason than there is no guarantee the two layup shots will be good ones either.

 

The difference is fractional...something like 0.2 strokes different.

 

So I mostly talked myself out of these layup strategies, even though I’m a somewhat conservative player overall. And it doesn’t do me a damn bit of good because I make doubles and triples with the best of them.

 

Anyway, I usually hit driver or at least a 2 iron and take my chances...and then I get so ticked when I hit it OB or in a hazard, etc. and wish like heck I had hit a 5 iron. Except then I remind myself that we have one par 4 where I hit 4 iron off of the tee because that is the correct play on this hole, and I screw that one up just as much as I do when I hit driver, etc.

 

Damned if I do, and damned if I don’t...and this is why i consider course management so hard...

[bigred90gt]

We have a hole at my old home course (Eagle Pointe in Mont Belvieu, TX, #16) that refer to as the worst designed hole in the entire Houston area, and there’s lots of courses in the Houston area. It plays about 460ish yards. Around 250 or so off the tee, the fairway (which is all downhill and severely undulating) ends and there’s a 15-20 foot embankment to a small flat spot just before a creek, all of which is 3-4” of incredibly thick Bermuda. On the other side is a 20ish yard long by 30ish yard wide patch of fairway, then a pond, then another 100 yards of fairway to the green. Everything on the green side of the creek plays uphil. To the left of that last bit of fairway is a waterfall and creek that feeds the pond. To the left of the green is a pond (a good 10yards or so yards left, so some bailout area). The green slopes hard left to right. To the right is 17 tee box and some more woods. All down the right side of the hole is dense woods that you basically can’t play out of (red staked and too thick to swing a club). The rough along the right between the fairway and the woods is so thick it is easy to lose balls in. To the left is the cart path, which is set in between two rows of pine trees.

 

Basically, you have to play a tee shot for about 230, and hope it doesn’t bounce into the creek. If it lands soft, you have another 230 yard shot to the green, but the entire fairway is a severe (for us on the Texas coast) downhill slope. Hitting a hybrid or fairway wood that distance from that kind of slope is not the easiest shot. If you manage to make it to the end of the fairway before the creek, you either have a flat stance, or a side hill lie with a 200ish yard shot. I have ruined many good rounds on this hole. A bogie is a good score for most.

 

To give you an idea, they are in the process of redesigning the course and are planning to shut it down to rebuild. The designer they consulted wanted to play it to get a feel for it. When they finished, he said that was the worst hole he has ever seen and who ever designed it should be shot, lol.

 

In the image, the arrow on top is the tee box, the aero on bottom is the green.

 

 

[macedan]

9th hole at my home course is a 450 Par 4 with trees lining both sides of the rough maybe 3-5 yards off the fairway, however at 280 yards sits a very large/tall tree which encroaches nearly half of the way into into the right fairway, to make matters more difficult a similar tree sits about 295 on the left side encroaching about 1/3 of the way into the left fairway. This leaves a very narrow window of a approach and I scarcely am able to get such an open look and even then am left with typically a long iron in. I'll typically set up on the right side of the tee box and set up for a fade as the tree line up the left rough is much thicker.

[greenj20]

Every par 4 for me...Bogey golf!

[Pepperturbo]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > You don't mention yardages just club choices. It's hard to put your dilemma into perspective.

> I thought if I mentioned the yardages the responses would be greatly influenced by how far someone hits the ball. The hole is only ~400 yards. The problem is the creek/hazard area starts at about 230 so I can't hit a driver (can reach but have no hope to carry it at 300 yards). The landing area also gets narrower between the OB left and pond right from ~190 to ~230 off the tee (where the creek starts).

>

> If you are a big hitter, this hole isn't hard. Either fly everything or it's probably like a 5-iron and a 9-iron on. But just change the yardages for them and the strategy question is the same.

>

> As you and others have said, I'd agree there's no reason to lay up on just a long, hard par 4 in the absence of stroke costing penalty hazards/OB.

>

> If I was really accurate, I could hit a 4W and a 5-iron on. Maybe I can hit two 7Ws on although I am pretty sure this brings the penalties into play off the tee. Two 5-irons and a flick sand wedge means the tee shot is quite safe but there is virtually no chance to reach the green.

 

Most people on Golfwrx are not 300yd hitters, except in their imagination and a large portion more than likely miss a 40 yard wide narrow fairway. LOL. Club choice isn't as important (most are jacked) as yardage and to cover, then club choice.

 

Am I understanding correctly, you hit 5 iron short of 230?

 

Nope, I am not a big hitter more average but long for my age group. I hit all my clubs pretty straight too. So a 400-yard hole like you describe would be 2 iron 215+ yards in the middle, then 3-5i in.

[lchang]

These hole descriptions make me grateful for the courses I usually play!

[msg]

We have two holes, par 4 back to back at my local course that I usually play. I always end up double or worse here. When I use my driver. Not sure why but when I play these holes, I get nervous and I do some stupid things with my driver. Or if I find the fairway, I do something stupid with my second shot. Both are straight but trees on the left and on the right. No ob or hazards though.

 

One time I topped my drive. It went like 50 yards. The holes are both 400 - 430 yards long. So, 350 to go, I just hit my 4 hybrid and it went 200. 150 to go, I just hit a relaxed 7 iron. I got on the green and got a bogey. I just realized that I just hit a 50 yard drive by accident and still got a bogey. Still better than the usual double or triple that I get from going into the trees.

 

On the second hole I hit my 4 hybrid, 200 to go, another 4 hybrid, I was on the green and two putted for par. Ever since I just lay up. When I feel adventurous, I hit my driver, which usually ends up in trouble. lol

 

[hybrid25]

Strange, I have made it to the green on a 500 yd par 5 in two strokes, but struggle when I 'try' to make to a 430 yd par 4 in two strokes often times. Especially as a mid hc golfer, it is very acceptable to take a bogie on a difficult par 4 for the likes of me.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > You don't mention yardages just club choices. It's hard to put your dilemma into perspective.

> > I thought if I mentioned the yardages the responses would be greatly influenced by how far someone hits the ball. The hole is only ~400 yards. The problem is the creek/hazard area starts at about 230 so I can't hit a driver (can reach but have no hope to carry it at 300 yards). The landing area also gets narrower between the OB left and pond right from ~190 to ~230 off the tee (where the creek starts).

> >

> > If you are a big hitter, this hole isn't hard. Either fly everything or it's probably like a 5-iron and a 9-iron on. But just change the yardages for them and the strategy question is the same.

> >

> > As you and others have said, I'd agree there's no reason to lay up on just a long, hard par 4 in the absence of stroke costing penalty hazards/OB.

> >

> > If I was really accurate, I could hit a 4W and a 5-iron on. Maybe I can hit two 7Ws on although I am pretty sure this brings the penalties into play off the tee. Two 5-irons and a flick sand wedge means the tee shot is quite safe but there is virtually no chance to reach the green.

>

> Most people on Golfwrx are not 300yd hitters, except in their imagination and a large portion more than likely miss a 40 yard wide narrow fairway. LOL. Club choice isn't as important (most are jacked) as yardage and to cover, then club choice.

>

> Am I understanding correctly, you hit 5 iron short of 230?

>

> Nope, I am not a big hitter more average but long for my age group. I hit all my clubs pretty straight too. So a 400-yard hole like you describe would be 2 iron 215+ yards in the middle, then 3-5i in.

I guess we have a different perspective about club choice. To me, there's nothing to talk about on a wide-open 400 yard par 4. I'm going to hit driver and some type of mid-iron. The challenge here the that the creek limits driver and there are hazards both left and right the farther down you go.

 

Yes, I hit my 5-iron less than 230 yards. I've mentioned the hole is 400 yards, and that maybe two 7 woods can get me to the green (~200 yards each). The 5-iron goes less than 200 yards (180 or so), and lands in an area where a) I can't reach the pond and b) it is harder to reach the OB on the line that I am taking (not impossible if you really pulled one but much harder than if I hit a 4-wood). If I was extremely accurate like you, I would do something like 4-wood and then 5-iron (+/- a club) on the green.

 

I appreciate your reply but it is actually similar to the distance issue I was trying to avoid. The question is basically do you take getting on the green in two out of the equation in the attempt to avoid penalty shots. Your answer is basically "I hit it so straight the penalty spots don't apply to me." Which is great, I wish I could play that way but it doesn't really address the fundamental question. It's essentially the same as if a big hitter simply said "I'd punch a 5-iron just short of the creek and then chip a 9-iron on the green. What's so hard?"

[Enduro59]

> @om18v said:

> > @Enduro59 said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > Obviously pros do this on the 72nd hole with the lead. I've also heard of guys "laying up" for their second shot on a very long par 4 if their drive doesn't give them a good chance of getting it on in 2 and there are hazards around the green.

> > >

> > > However, does anyone basically play for bogey off the tee?

> > >

> > > There is one par 4 where I play that is tough. Off the tee there is a) OB all the way down the left side, b) creek / waste area that cuts across the fairway so can't hit driver, and c) pond on the right side of the fairway. The hole also narrows somewhat the farther down towards the creek/waste area you go.

> > >

> > > The last five rounds I've hit 5-iron / 5-iron / flick sand wedge and got a bogey each time. When playing it "normal" I've made pars and an odd birdie but also a lot of doubles and triples.

> > >

> > > Wondering if anyone has found the conservative strategy to be more successful and stuck with it for an extended period of time? I usuallyn't take an "avoid looking dumb/bad shot" strategy at all times. However, here the biggest problem is off the tee, and the advantage of hitting a 5-iron is that I can't reach the pond and the OB is much more difficult to hit into on the 5-iron distance/line.

> > >

> > > Obviously, I can play both ways 10-20 times in a row and see what wins out (I don't have the historical data from my prior rounds hole by hole). I may also try hitting two 7-woods, which could probably get me on the green some of the time (I need to see what this is like off the tee though). I also realize the strategy here may vary by skill level...

> >

> > I stumbled across a guy from South Africa on YouTube videos called The golf sidekick. He thinks it's a good idea for anyone with handicaps not in the single digits to do what you are asking about. Sometimes he recommends it for all golfers on certain holes. Mostly he stresses putting your 2nd shot in a safe place, avoiding all trouble. Also I guess now that I think of it he stresses hitting a club off the tee that no matter how short it is will not get you in trouble. This summer after buying into his approach 100% I have completely eliminated big numbers from my scorecard. (Fewer penalty strokes and punch-outs) Might be worth checking out the sidekick on YouTube just for grins.

>

> Oh, we mustn't mention Matt on this forum. His common sense approach of stress free golf for high handicappers to lower their scores was poo-pooed on this forum some time ago.

 

Oops,I wasn't aware of that. Not surprising though. Lots of experts here on wrx. Right now for me the golf sidekick's philosophy is working. Found him on YouTube TV around late April and I was really struggling. Bought in to his stress free for high handicaps by mid May and may soon be a mid handicap myself. Granted I have played more rounds in the time period than at any other time in the past but I have played every round as prescribed by sidekick. However I am not sure if the same prescription for shooting mid 80s can get me breaking 80. Also not sure I have the technical form/swing that will allow me to improve much more from where I am. Smart mental golf and course management will only take me so far when I can't/don't swing the same way hardly ever two times in a row.

[hacker49]

There is a par 4 on the course I play regularly that is likely a par 5 for most average golfers. As the crow flies it is about 400-410, but it is in reality a 90 degree dogleg. To reach the dogleg is 200-240. Then from the dogleg if you cut it close to the corner is about 230. I don't think I have ever come close to hitting the green in regulation. I hit a good driver 220-240 normally so I can reach the corner usually with a decent drive. But depending on how close I got to the corner I am 230+ away. So I have no shot at reaching the green in regulation unless I hit a perfect 3 wood and it rolls like crazy. To make things more difficult the green is domed. I remember once hitting a 5 wood and it landed on the front of the green, pin was in the middle. I thought, oh that will be nice. When I get to the green the ball had rolled off the back of the green. I hate that hole and of course it is the 18th.

[HiTrajLoSpin]

For those of us who are handicap golfers, it's a given that **we're going to make bogey(s)** during any given round. So, in the long run we're better off accepting that fact and playing conservatively (with the possibility of saving par with our short game), rather than introducing the possibility of making a big number by doing something high risk.

[DivinDave]

Yes. Im not a long hitter. A good drive for me is 230. There are a couple of long par 4s on my home course north of about 420. No 5, and No 18. And they both have trouble on the side of the fairways and around greens. I walk on the Tee with bogie on my mind. It would be easy on those holes to get too far out of position and end up with double or worse. I have parred them on occasion, and got pure lucky once and got a birdie on No 5.

 

[RainShadow]

I have two holes on my home course that I consider a bogie to be an acceptable score.

**#9 is a 200yrd, 40ft uphill par 3 w/ desert left right and long, and it's followed by the hardest rated hole on the course, an uphill, 435 yrd par 4 with a large barranca about 25 yards in front of the green.**

The par 3 is a 3 hybrid for me on a calm day, can be 4 wood when windy. If I par it, I'm quite happy. I've only birdied it once.

The par 4 I have to hit a really good drive to have less than 175 uphill (2 clubs) and it's still a 4 or 5 hybrid depending on wind. I usually have about 180-185 left, significantly up hill. Poor drive and I may have to lay up short of the wash and leave a 90-115 semi blind shot to the flag.

I play it as a par 5 in my mind, so if I par I'm feel like I conquered a giant. I think I have birdied it 3 times.

[KyGolf]

> @smashdn said:

> Here's another hole that eats my lunch every time I play it. The fairway is on the spine of a ridge. The cart path that goes down the right hand side is anywhere from 15 to 20 foot below the fairway. The tree line on the opposite side is only about 5 foot below the fairway but is OB. If you go long you are OB. If you come up short it hits and rolls down to the cart path or you have a hanging lie well below your feet. You have to tack your way down that spine to keep it in play. I want to say the last time I played it I went 7i three times and then pitched on. It is a par five though but it gets to your point of having to play for bogey to keep from making a huge number. I am going to say this is what you end up with on a severe property on a state park project where the budget doesn't allow you to move ground like you need to.

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Mineral Mounds?

[Shipwreck]

Regardless of the 350+ yard drives, 210 yard 8irons etc. that this site produces, we are not tour pros. Heck, I’d be willing to bet that a very very very small % of WRX golfers are legit scratch or better.

 

With that in mind, bogey is not a bad score on a tough hole. I think we get it so ingrained in our narrow, golf-only mindset that “must make par or better” that we lose focus on how good (or bad) we actually are. If you were a 2hc and talking about a 300 yard par 4, yes you should be getting a par or better the majority of the time. If you’re a 17hc and this is a 470 yard monster with OB, hazards and the like, you take your medicine and honestly try and play it as a par 5.

 

We’ve all had those holes where we walk away with a bogey and it feels more satisfying than a par on some holes. As the old saying goes “there’s plenty more golf left to play”, unless of course this is hole 18 then you can’t really make it up anywhere else.