6 handicap working with counterintuitive feel

[gibsonsg4]

I am a 6 handicap who tends to have issues with spinning the lower body due to being young and flexible. in my current swing i don't even feel like i use my arms, just use my body with "passive" arms. First video is my normal standard 85% speed swing. second video i am experimenting with the feel of swinging my arms entirely and not consciously trying to "fire the hips". the result is are much better club alignments at p6 and impact as well as better synchronization overall. Is this something that i should continue further or is it dangerous to start swinging armsy?

 

 

http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/11D5zzme

 

http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/feJ8y4MM

 

 

 

 

 

[malarijm]

What does your ball flight say? IMO the pitfall of my swing getting to armsy is potential for flipping/manipulation/"hit" at the bottom of the swing with a lack of rotation through impact. You don't look like you suffer from any of those from your videos. Listen to the ball flight!

[gibsonsg4]

@malarijm

 

Fight a hook with long clubs with current swing because body gets ahead of club and drops behind -> flip the face shut at last minute. On longer clubs i have so much rotation that i can actually point my hips at the target while my shoulders are still square to the ball

 

I’d say my miss is a bit of a flip right now depending on how much the club gets behind me, i can get away with it from 7iron and upwards but once i get to longer clubs its an issue

 

Ballflight wise i can hit the ball straight/high either way, but with current swing the flip+shut face cand give some low hooks off the tee sometimes. I don’t think i’ll ever get to the point where my body stops completely and my arms just fly out, in my video that literally felt like i swung all arms and my hips still get open at impact

[Zitlow]

The energy should flow out of your body from the ground up into the club head like water flowing out of a garden hose. If you block the flow it's like kinking up the hose.

 

Tense arms will block the flow and crashing in your case (lefty) your left lower body into your right lower body will block the flow.

[fjk]

I don't think you are spinny bc you are young and flexible. I think you are spinny bc your core mentality/swing philosophy drives your body to accommodate that intended force... And that's the result.

 

Even on your "armsy" intention, but worse before, look at your lead arm position at impact and compare it to good ball strikers.

[kowalgolf]

Rhythm and tempo look much smoother/better than first video. Ball flight wise is the distance the same?

[fjk]

To elaborate:

 

Upper left arm is still pinned and the left shoulder is high. The left arm is straight or borderline hyper extended.

 

Probably because a lot of or too much of the force you are trying to generate is subconsciously from the "body"

 

the same intent for different people can result in different realities, but you can try to figure out why, for you, the reality is the way it is.

 

I think forcing yourself to do something unnatural won't yield long term results unless you change the way you think about powering the swing so it matches up with the action you're trying to generate. Even though your swing looks better with the "counterintuitive" feel. Still need to match up your underlying philosophies or you will revert under pressure to your "natural" tendencies.

[MPStrat]

You're not lunging toward the target as much in the after video

[gibsonsg4]

> @kowalgolf said:

> Rhythm and tempo look much smoother/better than first video. Ball flight wise is the distance the same?

 

For that one i made like a half swing, just feeling like my arms get infront of me first before starting to turn my hips

[Scottbox]

Your instincts are correct! You have lateral slide that gets the club behind you. It's beneficial to limit that lower body slide so that your arms don't get stuck behind. I'd hit shots with a wedge under your left heel and keep it down until after impact. It will limit the slide and synch everything up more. See vid:

This is another good vid to learn how to stay on top of the ball and limit too much axis tilt coming down:

You can also hit shots with your left foot back. That will get you to stay more "on top" of the ball and rotate your chest over a more stationary lower body.

[fjk]

Fixing one part without addressing why will just lead to the same swing, or an awkward swing.

[MonteScheinblum]

There are always 2 discussions.

 

1. What is actually supposed to happen

2. What you need to feel to make that happen.

 

You can’t have one without the other or you will spin your wheels.

 

The lower body leading is .02 of a second. Conscious effort to produce this creates a gap too large in the sequence, so feeling like the arms start first is one way.

[malarijm]

I struggled with a similar slide to start the swing resulting in a big handle drag with a wide open clubface. I tried body swing, arm swing, square naturally...none of it mattered bc I was never in a position to deliver a square clubface. The best thing for me was to visualize my left shoulder (also a lefty) as a flywheel and feel the clubface tracing the arc around my body through impact. The rest kind of took care of itself because my intention had shifted to that external task as opposed to technique (i.e. the classic you don't consciously think about arm angle, wrist angle, release when you throw a ball)

 

I know that saying "just deliver a square clubface" induces a "no sh!t Sherlock" reaction but I had been so focused on technical turn, rotate, pivot, no arms, more arms, no wrist etc that you forget that it's just about using an athletic motion to deliver a square clubface into the back of the ball. Your swing looks solid enough that a shift in intention might get you what you need?

[farmer]

Manuel de la Torre taught that if the hands/arms move correctly, the body will follow.

[northgolf]

> @farmer said:

> Manuel de la Torre taught that if the hands/arms move correctly, the body will follow.

 

No, he didn't. Manuel taught you to swing the club back with your hands and to swing the entire club forward with your arms. MDLT is derivative of Earnest Jones, and both focused on swinging the club and very little on the hands/arms. In fact, MDLT, wrote that he had students focus on swinging with the arms (he has a very specific definition of arms) in the foreswing because he found it helped them swing the club.

 

My point is, that MDLT taught that if you swing the club head back over your right shoulder with your hands and you swing the entire club through the ball on your forward swing with your arms, then you will have a golf swing that you can play with well.

 

The movement of hands and arms and body are secondary to the clubhead on the backswing and the entire club on the downswing. External, not internal focus. Always.

[llewol007]

Here is my take on it after watching your videos. To me it almost seems as if the second video is more of a shot used on the shorter irons say your 9 iron all the way up to your wedges. You can get away with the armsy shot. With longer irons up to your driver, I was always taught to fire the hip and that is what I usually would try to incorporate into those who I run into. To me the lower half is your engine and the arms become passengers that go along for the ride. Now there is a timing aspect that comes into play but all of that you have to figure out. That point when you release the passengers on their way. That is where the power comes from.

[jkbroker]

This is my #1 swing fault, spinning the hips and leaving the arms behind (feels powerful, but can't get the handle forward and face control problems).

The actual sequence should be a lateral move first and not a rotational. The lateral move involves trying to stay in left tilt and start to regain flexion, the front knee will gain more flex, and the right hip has to keep its depth.

 

A couple keys things that really help me calm this impulse

1. You need to get pressure early into trail foot and feel like the trail foot is always turning clockwise, especially when you make the shift left. When my swing is off, the knee is turning in toward ball and foot is rotating counterclockwise and pulling right hip in.

2. You may need to work on strengthening or learning how to activate your glutes, core, and lower body. We had a good laugh at Tiger, but the glutes are essential in providing a stable base.

3. Good drills - hitting 7 iron 100 yards, flamingo drill, drop the basket, alignment stick through your belt loop and make sure arms make it back through before right hip blocks it with stick.

 

When you maintain your tush line after being a hip thruster, its going to feel like an arm swing and that the club is way more out in front of you. It doesn't feel as powerful, but when done correctly, I always gain a ton of lost distance.

[Nard_S]

There's not a lot of hip rotation on back swing, going deeper might square things up easier. Also,I'm seeing to much lateral movement in both videos. Especially in upper spine. Keep that more centered and it forces tighter rotation of hips then timing or firing issues can get addressed on a better level.

[Zitlow]

You can turn your right hip independently but when do you turn it and how much do you turn it? What are you balanced on at the top of the swing?

[Nard_S]

> @Zitlow said:

> You can turn your right hip independently but when do you turn it and how much do you turn it? What are you balanced on at the top of the swing?

 

Turn it independent of upper body you're meaning?

 

I used to be very lateral and had dopey notion of driving legs target bound with little depth of turn of hips in backswing. It's evolved to getting deeper turn against inside trail foot

 

 

[Zitlow]

Nard, if it's working for you don't change. We all have built in anatomical trains, everything is connected by fascia and myofascial linkage.

 

A simple way to experience how it works is to stand normally and shift your weight to the right so that you're balanced on your foot, leg and hip. Now turn your upper body to the right. What did your right hip do?

 

[Nard_S]

> @Zitlow said:

> Nard, if it's working for you don't change. We all have built in anatomical trains, everything is connected by fascia and myofascial linkage.

>

> A simple way to experience how it works is to stand normally and shift your weight to the right so that you're balanced on your foot, leg and hip. Now turn your upper body to the right. What did your right hip do?

>

 

My change is what is working, lol.

What you suggest sounds fine and works till I put a club in my hand, lol.

 

 

[TTGC5EYES]

[MonteScheinblum]

 

[J295]

Invest in some online instruction. Consider Monte, Jeff Brehaut, Steven Giuliano, etc.

[crapula]

Right shoulder lower and behind you during downswing. Push into the ground instead of sliding on it. Forget about getting to right side.