HackMotion wrist sensor

[tanker44]

Invaluable tool. Took a lesson today and we used putting and full swing. Putting session I was good to go. However, full swing I have some opportunities. I'm 37 and a 2 handicap. Four years ago I was a +4 and have been fighting to get back to that level. I have taken lessons from one pro in FL for 2 years who got me to +4 but not due to full swing. I'm a good ball striker to get buy but he got my putting and shot game best of my life. We attempted to work on my full swing as I lay it off a bit at the top and have a flip - however, I declined a major swing change. Fast forward a few years. I have found a new teacher in VA. Since the spring it has basically been a 'just getting to know you and your game' situation. We set a course of action. Full swing review, short game and back to full swing. We we went through initial swing review and swing methods, etc. We then hit up short game and after only a few lessons I started to feel my putting stroke from years ago start to come back. So today we met to start on full swing again and he introduced the Hackmotion. After a few swings I was striking the ball very solid, however, red flags appeared. At the top of my back swing I have a cupped left hand that remains cupped till moments before impact. The pro proceeds to explain this cupped wrist has been the reason for my misses to the right and the flip I try to control. I was blown away. I had never seen this videos in the past. My trackman and any swing-data has always been strong. I had always figured my occasional miss to the right was a lazy cast or a lateral slide. And as for my flip I just figured being a junior golfer of the 90's it was ingrained in my swing and not going anywhere. Well I now know what has never made sense. I now have an explanation for years of frustration playing competition where I couldn't explain where some of these swings flaws originated. I thought I knew everything about the golf swing. Nope. Well now that I know how messed up I am I get to get my wrist uncupped approaching impact. I don't care if I look like Daniel Berger or Dustin Johnson at the top of my swing - I will get my hands where they need to be now that I know the root cause. I highly recommend this product.

[aledger1]

Great device. The only thing I did notice when I compared the swing tempo data with the SkyPro in putting mode there were some noticeable differences as much as 0.30-.050 ratio out. I think I probably trust the SkyPro more. Not sure if anyone else had noticed this?

[Loughfad]

I see there is a hackmotion LITE version out now for a bit cheaper (495). Tempted.

http://hackmotion.com/hackmotion-lite-launch/

 

 

[aenemated]

I'm working on a hardware device (in real life, I'm a software engineer) similar to this - initially focused on putting but I have ideas for other aids under the same brand I've developed.

 

I'd be interested to hear what you guys see as positives and negatives with these sorts of devices.

[teddyironboy]

anyone purchase this from amazon? it's a bit cheaper than on the website, not sure if legit

[harveythomas]

I got a pro version 3 weeks ago while I had Covid.  Been revolutionary in helping me understand my wrist problems and why I often got stuck for years due to having wrong concepts.  
 

when I started hitting my first shots with it my wrist had about 24 degrees of extension at address which increased to 40 at the top and close to that at impact.  It explained why my ball striking had been so inconsistent this year with lots of indifferent ball striking rounds.  
 

I had been told repeatedly by golf pros that I needed more wrist c0ck but actually my radial movement is close to 30 degrees when I now move to less extension at the top of my swing which is what I needed to do.  So I needed more flexion instead not more radial up c0ck (which can stop flexion).
 

I realised when I played really well a couple of years back after doing lots of Mike Bender drills (the first time a book had ever helped my golf swing and I have a lot of them) on path etc that I was doing this with my wrists better back then (regular 12 greens in reg territory which is great given my geriatric back).  The athletic motion guys also built my understanding on this point recently and helped me start thinking about why I’d lost my game since then.
 

I then had a lesson with my latest golf pro who I just started working with.  He used to work with Jim Hardy and had been trying to get me more flexed in my left wrist in our first lesson and then releasing to the left.  He’d also got me wondering about my wrist action.  
 

Having then done some Hackmotion work while I was sick but before the latest lesson he then got me feeling like I’m using a throwing action and now my ball striking is getting really good again.  
 

All I do is put the sensor on in my living room and get the feeling I should have as I have the sensor on.  In fact I exaggerate it a load in the living room.  I’ve done a few range sessions too and gradually I’m getting less extension at impact.  
 

Also once the wrist is in a better position at the top of the swing it’s easier to turn through the shot the right way and go hard at the ball.  
 

I’m really happy with this tool which I’ve found revolutionary although I think most of its job is already done in just a few weeks.  You might want to see if you can borrow one for a month to help you until you get the feel and understanding going.

 

I joined a really good club in Surrey last year and now my ball striking is starting to match the quality of the courses.  I am so pleased I took the risk on this purchase and I’d strongly recommend you get access to one if wrist action is a potential issue in your swing.  

[RichieHunt]

I've had mine for 3 days and I really iike it a lot.  I have the Player version that I decided to get because they say you can upgrade to the Pro version if needed.  I think it's good to hook this up to a TV screen where you can more easily see the wrist action when using the biofeedback.  The audio biofeedback is nice, but for me it's not quite as effective as using the audio feedback combined with the visual that's easy to see on a TV monitor.

 

I think the more difficult issue is trying to determine what wrist action works best.  They do have guidelines from Scott Cowx on typical patterns they ahve seen from Tour pros. 

 

For me, the address position is the first priority.  When I first got on HackMotion my address positon was at +3 an dthen I would go to somehlike +40 and then back down to around +12.  I had the club gripped too much in the fingers and too perpendicular to my fingers and it made it difficult for me to get into flexion.  I do remember working with Kelvin Miyahira back around 2014-ish and him showing me that I had excellent flexion of the left wrist in transition.  But I had a different left hand grip back then.  Once I changed my grip the wrist action changed for the worse

 

Now I get myself around +15 to +25 at address.  I'll cut that down to half at the top and then get to around -5 at impact.  The key for me is to get the grip in the left hand to where I feel I can easily get the wrists into flexion starting around P2.5

 

But the sensor is not only vital because it helps understand better wrist motions, it helps with the trial and error process.  I had been working on the wrists for a few days without the Hackmotion sensor and while I had the right idea, there were a lot of kinks to work out that would have taken much longer without the sensor (or maybe they never get worked out).

 

The wrist motion does feel funny.  What's interesting is when I hit a shot that my old self feels like it went dead left and then I see the ball traveling on target.  I do get some shots that feel like they are going dead right and go directly at the at the target, but I'd say it's a 10:1 ratio of shots that feel like they went dead left vs. shots that feel like they went dread right (but still ended up on target).

 

The other thing I really like about this is that it starts to eliminate a key problem in the swing so if I hit bad shots and the wrist action is where I want it, then I don't have to worry about the hands and wrists.

 

For example, I have low point issues and the wrist actions were contributing to that.  Now that my wrist actions are getting much better, when I hit a shot thin (my typical low point issue), I know that I had some issues with my pivot and tilting

 

Anyway, it's a tool that I highly recommend.  It's not going to solve all of the woes that golfers have, but it's such a vital component of the golf swing and it's so foreign to so many golfers, even really good golfers.  And it allows the golfers to learn so quickly that it's well worth the retail price and then some.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[GolfTurkey]

Why do I read stuff like this, I have some spare cash from flipping clubs on Ebay and now my training add ho is firing up...

 

The thing I wonder about is whether I would be able to understand the "how and why" to correct stuff that it shows.

 

E.g. a launch monitor may show that my path is too extreme but that only helps if I know why, as well as the easiest way to correct it.

 

I wish I could mess around with one of these on my own for a couple hours to see if it would be beneficial in the absence of an instructor.

Edited July 11, 2022 by GolfTurkey

[RichieHunt]

13 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

Why do I read stuff like this, I have some spare cash from flipping clubs on Ebay and now my training add ho is firing up...

 

The thing I wonder about is whether I would be able to understand the "how and why" to correct stuff that it shows.

 

E.g. a launch monitor may show that my path is too extreme but that only helps if I know why, as well as the easiest way to correct it.

 

I wish I could mess around with one of these on my own for a couple hours to see if it would be beneficial in the absence of an instructor.

 

Go to the HackMotion YouTube channel.  Lots of good discussion and reference material there.  Pretty easy to pick up the information.  After you get the basics of flexion/extension and radial/ulnar (their Web site has a lot of good info as well), you'll want to watch stuff on the supination of the arms to further illustrate the point.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[GungHoGolf]

I’ve watched most of the HackMotion videos on YT since acquiring our HM Pro, and this one is my favorite. He focuses on the trail wrist, and includes practical benchmarks and drills for improving impact conditions:

 

 

[GungHoGolf]

On 7/10/2022 at 1:23 AM, RichieHunt said:

I had the club gripped too much in the fingers and too perpendicular to my fingers and it made it difficult for me to get into flexion.

 

This mirrors my experience, as I’ve experimented with a long vs short left thumb. 

 

With a long thumb (club aligned closer to perpendicular to the lead hand fingers, aka “suitcase grip” or Waldron’s “Power Grip”), it’s harder/more uncomfortable for me to fully flex the lead wrist. 

 

With a short thumb (club aligned more diagonally across the fingers, from between the base of the pinky to the second or third joint of the index finger, or like you would hold a screwdriver for maximum torque), flexing the wrist feels more natural and stress-free on my tendons of the wrist and hand. 

 

YMMV of course, but I can feel the difference even without a club. I think it has to do with the ulnar deviation that accompanies wrist flexion. Try fully flexing and ulnar deviating your lead wrist while your fingers are curled around an imaginary grip, then alternate between extending your thumb up vs flexing it against the second joint of your index finger. The former is uncomfortable and stressful for me. 

[GolfTurkey]

And down the rabbit hole I go…pro version ordered.

 

Converting the exchange rate of local pricing, here in Australia the player version pricing works out way more expensive than in the USA (typical) and the pro version is cheaper (weird).

[Wasted_Talent]

AMG (aka Shaun Webb) used to teach at 265 in Shreveport.  They have since moved on, but the new guy uses hackmotion.  That was the first time I have ever used it and loved it.  When I felt I truly compressed a shot I would look at it and the results were undeniable.  

[RichieHunt]

I've been working with the HackMotion for the past 6 days.  My wrist patterns (flexion/extension) usually go about +15 at address, then going into -15-ish at p3 but then going back into extension by p4 (about +7).  Then I can get around -5 at impact.

 

I will say that I have found that you really have to pay attention to your pivot while working with HackMotion as I've found that I can pay too much attentions to the wrists and not enough attention to the pivot.  This has been especially problematic as with my lesson using HackMotion we had talked about making some changes to the pivot as well, so I end up trying to work on 2 things at once.

 

For me though, I try to feel the wrists going into flexion almost right away in the takeway.  Then at the top I really concentrate on getting the supination of the arms.  At first I didn't really comprehend how one could supinate both arms, but toying around with the reverse motorcycle move and the double supination I can see how it occurs provided that the lead wrist is in flexion.  My visual key is to feel like I'm turning over the knuckles of my left hand and slamming the knuckles into the ground.

 

But the pivot is so key because if your body isn't oriented in a good fashion, you're going to have a hard time getting the wrist action you want or being able to deliver the clubhead to the ball the way you want.

 

I still have the player version.  I'm going to wait until next month and get another lesson.  If we see there is still some wrist action issues, particularly with ulnar and radial deviation, I'll upgrade to the pro version.   But so far I find it best to spend the first 10-15 minutes using HackMotion and then trying to focus more on the pivot action for the rest of the session.

 

 

RH

Edited July 13, 2022 by RichieHunt

[airjammer]

I’ve had one for close to a couple of years now. I don’t use it much anymore but it definitely has it place. Anyone who wants to add flexion into there swing it’s a game changer.  It has a mode where you can set targets and it will start a tone when you meet it. 
 

Just one word of caution when working on it…don’t get into flexion in the early part of the backswing. Most people who do this just end up losing it by they top position and for whatever reason it’s seems harder to regain flexion and going for extended to a bunch of flexion on the downswing.
 

Also, pretty much no one with a good short game does this unless they have a very weak grip. 

[GolfTurkey]

Mine arrived today and I've had a few minutes to try it.
 

First impression is OMG, I open it up like a flop shot according the app. Consistently  way too much extension at the top and then consistently in the green zone at impact.

 

Thing is, if I freeze at the top, even if I have what looks like a flat or bowed wrist, it says loads of extension. 

 

Just trying to eliminate user error before I go down a rabbit hole; that clip that goes under the glove feels quite loose and may be sliding around during the swing. Does anyone use no glove with the strap instead of the clip because it seems more stable?

[GungHoGolf]

4 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

Mine arrived today and I've had a few minutes to try it.
 

First impression is OMG, I open it up like a flop shot according the app. Consistently  way too much extension at the top and then consistently in the green zone at impact.

 

Thing is, if I freeze at the top, even if I have what looks like a flat or bowed wrist, it says loads of extension. 

 

Just trying to eliminate user error before I go down a rabbit hole; that clip that goes under the glove feels quite loose and may be sliding around during the swing. Does anyone use no glove with the strap instead of the clip because it seems more stable?

My clip is very snug, and when clipped on the bottom part of my glove’s velcro tab, prior to closing the velcro tab, it stays perfectly in place. 

 

Show us a pic of how you’re attaching it if you still have concerns. 

 

Haven’t tried the strap on the lead hand, but use it for trail wrist analysis. 

[GolfTurkey]

30 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

My clip is very snug, and when clipped on the bottom part of my glove’s velcro tab, prior to closing the velcro tab, it stays perfectly in place. 

 

Show us a pic of how you’re attaching it if you still have concerns. 

 

Haven’t tried the strap on the lead hand, but use it for trail wrist analysis. 

 

Thanks, I had a couple things completely bass-ackwards.

 

I had the sensor connected 90 degrees wrong, which I realised when ulnar / radial were going the wrong way. Then I was maxing out extension during calibration instead of going halfway. That'll teach me for rushing and not RTFM.

 

One thing that seems a bit strange is I can't get +ve radial, no matter how much I extend my wrist at the same time to make radial easier (looks c0cked to me). About -8 is the highest I can get it, and then quite large negative values when I try to go ulnar, not sure if this is normal? Will try in the morning with the strap to see if that makes any difference.

Edited July 14, 2022 by GolfTurkey

[Chazb]

It looks similar to the deWiz device where as deWiz  is more into club hand position on the backswing and downswing and helps with finding your  tempo try to get you close to a 3 to 1 ratio.

[RichieHunt]

I decided to upgrade to the Pro version.  You can go from extension to flexion early in the backswing and then go back into extension.  Scott Cowx calls that the Radial Downcock Pattern.  He says that it's common in long hitters, but it also tends to create a shorter flat spot and that tends to be back for consistency purposes.

 

Or you could do the DJ/Hovland wrist pattern where you get all of this flexion and maintain it, but according to Cowx is requires exceptional body rotation.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[GolfTurkey]

2 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

 You can go from extension to flexion early in the backswing and then go back into extension.  Scott Cowx calls that the Radial Downcock Pattern.  He says that it's common in long hitters, but it also tends to create a shorter flat spot and that tends to be back for consistency purposes.

 

Early indications (if I’ve got it set up correctly now) is that I have this pattern. I was quite shocked to see it, not sure what I was expecting but it wasn’t that.

 

I guess the question is now what? Do I try to change it…I’m thinking as a first step to just hit a bunch of balls and see if I can identify anything that I’m doing differently on the bad shots.

[RichieHunt]

2 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

Early indications (if I’ve got it set up correctly now) is that I have this pattern. I was quite shocked to see it, not sure what I was expecting but it wasn’t that.

 

I guess the question is now what? Do I try to change it…I’m thinking as a first step to just hit a bunch of balls and see if I can identify anything that I’m doing differently on the bad shots.

 

I've had the sensor for a week now and I've spent most of my time experimenting.  With the Radial Downcock pattern I can consistently get my left wrist into flexion at impact, but I have not liked the consistency in the ballstriking or the flight.  

 

So I've tried the more gradual pattern by focusing on more radial deviation very early in the swing (getting the clubhead traveling more upward early in the backswing).  This radial deviation helps prevent the wrist going into flexion.  Then I just go into flexion with supination pretty hard.

 

It just feels weird, but I have to tell myself that I still have to pivot and if I pivot normally and just let the pivot take care of the arms the clubhead and face won't get all wonky in the backswing.  The result is much smoother wrist graphs and much more consistency contact and ball flight.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

[ferrispgm]

I bought one a couple years ago after working with Monte at a clinic and it's amazing the difference it made.  I used it every other weekend for 6-8 months to get my wrists working properly.  Now I just use it once in a while to double check things are still working properly.  One of the best swing aids out there imo.

[GolfTurkey]

Mine is already worthwhile because the difference it made to putting. It showed I had far too much extension through impact.

 

Keeping it within plus or minus two degrees flexion/extension throughout the stroke feels like a big hold off block, but I took that feel to the course and it's the best I have putted in a long time.

[RichieHunt]

The work with the Hackmotion sensor is really starting to pay off for me.  

 

Instead of working on a gradual wrist flexion pattern, I decided to work on just trying to get as much lead wrist flexion as I could get going back and sustaining that flexion in the downswing.  

 

I figured that my issue with going from extension at address, then into flexion around p2.5 and then back into extension at p4 was caused by me increasing my ulnar deviation  at p2.5.  I've never liked picking up the clubhead up in the takeaway.  There's nothing wrong with it, but I've never been good at swinging that way.

 

Things started to take off for me when I started to focus on not only 'twisting' the handle with my lead hand and getting the lead wrist into flexion, but also focusing on twisting with my trail hand and getting that wrist into extension.  Once i focused on both hands/wrists everything improved by tenfold.

 

I think this is because my trail wrist had a tendency to want to get into flexion in transition with trail arm pronating.  It would simply overpower the my lead wrist/arm. 

 

What's awesome is how my pivot reacts to it.  I still have work to do with my pivot, but my pivot started to improve once the wrist actions improved.

 

I've found one of the key issues with my downswing pivot is that I tend to hang back with my trail shoulder.  Those shoulders need to turn thru in the downswing otherwise I won't be able to have the center of the sternum stacked over the pelvis and I'll make that sliding action.

 

I think if there's an issue some HackMotion users may find is that it works too good.  It's not cheap, but it does the job incredibly well so quickly.  I'm going to use it for my putting and short game shots, soon.  But I doubt I will use it much in the future for the full swing outside of the occasional checkup and maintenance.  

 

But when you think about it...solving a major issue in your swing in a short period of time should be worth a lot more than something that takes much longer to get working.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[RichieHunt]

Really like the progress I've made with my ballstriking using the HackMotion sensor.  Lowpoint has improved tremendously.  I'd say I'm hitting it a tad further, but I'm seeing a noticeable distance improvement in my irons, particularly on shots into the wind.  The club I've seen the most improvement with is the 3-wood.

 

I've been trying to go to the flexion-to-extension wrist pattern (i.e. Dustin Johnson).  I've done a good job of getting the flexion down, particularly at impact.  My issue now is that I have a hybrid of the flexion-to-extension wrist pattern (DJ) and the radial downc*cking (John Daly).  I'm trying to get rid of the radial downc*cking so I can lengthen the flat-spot and improve the timing of my swing.

 

One of the best parts of the sensor is the information that is provided online with not only the Tour data, but the instructors that discuss troubleshooting issues the user may have executing the wrist pattern.  I've struggled a bit to understand the concept of executing double supination, but eventually I watched enough videos to understand how to practice it.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

 

[Golfah]

I picked one up this year and I love it.  It literally is a "game changer".  I think it should be a standard part of any teaching pro instruction or serious amateur study.

 

What I did was hit some balls with the device, and then watched Scott Cowx's videos on the various wrist patterns, and discovered I was very much naturally a  "Option B- Flexion to extension model".  It also explains my shot shape tendencies.

 

I even tried replicating the other options and I felt completely alien. So, armed with this new information, I can then optimize feels and drills for my natural pattern.  

 

Without this information, I fail to understand how teaching pros can give advice unless they are trying to fit you into a template of "their" swing.  I actually started hitting my driver much better because I embraced and "felt" my natural extension move through impact, and I can really see now how it works to square up the club and not be considered a "flip" as long as my other body/arm conditions are met.  I no longer feel compelled to chase positions or copy drills other golfers of unknowingly conflicting patterns.  This I am sure has caused me to ping pong all over the golf instruction world.  

 

 

I will also say, when I hit a terrible shot, it is immediately apparent on hack motion that I go into extension way too early resulting from some fault, then I can see on the trace the ill-fated fight (presumably by EE and god knows what else) to get my wrist back to a condition to make a strike.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Golfah

[bistan]

I got to use a Hackmotion at a Monte clinic recently and it was really cool! I don't own one but was looking through some of their Youtube videos and found it really interesting that a lot of pros have a "stable extension" lead wrist throughout the backswing. 

 

 

If I look at video of myself, I definitely get the lead wrist into flexion around P2 and then back into extension on the way back up.

 

To be honest, I'm kind of blown away by this graph. How on earth does someone keep their lead wrist extension stable throughout the backswing without getting the club way outside the plane? Also keeping the lead wrist ulnar relative to neutral.

 

I tried playing around with the feel of stable wrist extension a bit just for fun and took the club like 20 feet outside every time. If I got to P2 on plane, wrist was flat.

 

EDIT: If anyone has a HackMotion and is similarly trying to figure this out, I had to *really* firmly grip the club with my lead hand and keep the feeling of engaging my lead hand + wrist muscles through P2. When I did this, the wrist appeared decently extended with the club on plane. I'm guessing is what pros who have wrist pattern A might be doing.

Edited July 31, 2022 by bistan

[RichieHunt]

On 7/30/2022 at 9:56 AM, bistan said:

To be honest, I'm kind of blown away by this graph. How on earth does someone keep their lead wrist extension stable throughout the backswing without getting the club way outside the plane? Also keeping the lead wrist ulnar relative to neutral.

 

 

I would imagine that the turning of the body keeps the club 'on plane' in the backswing.  The clubhead may be moving out, but the hands are going inward with the turn of the shoulders and body.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[bistan]

7 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

 

I would imagine that the turning of the body keeps the club 'on plane' in the backswing.  The clubhead may be moving out, but the hands are going inward with the turn of the shoulders and body.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

I think that's part of it yes. I think in my case I simply had too soft a grip/wrist when I took the club back and so it flexed naturally. Maintaining more extension in the takeaway for me doesn't feel like a change in pivot so much as maintaining a firm "squeeze" inwards of the elbow/forearm.