Clubhead speed in regards to driver length

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1428093400' post='11278103']
[quote name='ronsc1985' timestamp='1428089114' post='11277619']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1428074036' post='11275877']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1428063935' post='11274765']
[quote name='Golf64' timestamp='1428063708' post='11274753']
No driver should be longer than 45''. Control/accuracy over distance! The pros are usually no more than 44.5''.
[/quote]

It is ridiculous to deal in absolutes.
[/quote]


Droop, kick, twisting increase as length increases...;absolutely
There isnt a golf shaft made that will droop, kick, twist consistently playing length over 45 inches.

If there was, pros would all be playing over 45 inches.
[/quote]Rory, Phil and Dustin all play drivers over 45 inches. They seem to do O.K.
[/quote]


2014

Rory no 1 in the world, ranked 108 in driving accuracy missing more than 40%

2015

Phil ranks 158 in driving accuracy missing more than 45%

Dustin ranks 199 in driving accuracy missing 50%

If some of the best golfers in the world cant hit more than 50 to 60% of fairways with shafts playing longer than 45 inches
how many fairways can a 10 or 20 hdcp golfer expect to hit?

They win tournaments and make millions on courses set up minimizing the penalty to miss fairways so mfg can sell suckers long drivers, over 45 inches.

Yes they do ok, so you keep buying.
[/quote]

You are talking about whole populations of people and trying to arrive at a single conclusion that applies to all of them. If you want a little food for thought, look at the LPGA tour. Those professionals find the fairway a much larger percentage of the time and most play over length clubs, or at least clubs that are over length in relation to their actual size.

[ronsc1985]

Paranoid much? Those big bad OEM's are conspiring to screw you.

You seem to have the logical ability of a root vegetable with apologies to potatoes and turnips.

Here's a clue. Golf is played to shoot the lowest score, not to maximize fairways hit. They are very successful as their world ranking indicates. There is no prize money for a high percentage of fairways hit.

The game has changed since the 50's when hitting fairways was more important simply because the shorter drives dictated longer second shots with mid and long irons.

As to courses being set up easier by dictate of the OEM's, that is delusional. There are drugs and treatment available to treat your apparent condition.

[mikah]

[quote name='ronsc1985' timestamp='1428102168' post='11278887']
Paranoid much? Those big bad OEM's are conspiring to screw you.

You seem to have the logical ability of a root vegetable with apologies to potatoes and turnips.

Here's a clue. Golf is played to shoot the lowest score, not to maximize fairways hit. They are very successful as their world ranking indicates. There is no prize money for a high percentage of fairways hit.

The game has changed since the 50's when hitting fairways was more important simply because the shorter drives dictated longer second shots with mid and long irons.

As to courses being set up easier by dictate of the OEM's, that is delusional. There are drugs and treatment available to treat your apparent condition.
[/quote]

If you think 45 plus shafts are better, go buy them.
If you think stronger lofts mean you hit the ball further, go buy them

No one is trying to stop you. Have no dog in this fight.

The technology/physics is that over 45 inches the droop , kick and twist cannot be controlled. The best golfers in the world prove that every week.

.

How long did it take the USGA to stand up to the OEM's on long putters/anchoring for putting?
The USGA could have taken a stand against the technology (balls, shafts and clubs) that have made our
golf courses obsolete.

What rock have you been hiding under? Longer drives are because of technology... primarily balls, and COR of drivers.
Thats not 'natural' evolution, or maybe you think Duston Johnson hits the ball over 350 yards because he pumps iron.

The USGA has not protected the integrity of the game or the courses. They sold out to capitalism.

If you think the oem's wouldnt sell an inferior product or try to sell you on BS methology, go buy more, please .. without you they will go out of business

Taylor made sales decreased 20% last year. 1 Million golfers are leaving the game every year.
Please, keep buying that s***.

[rafal]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1428112014' post='11279781']
[quote name='ronsc1985' timestamp='1428102168' post='11278887']
Paranoid much? Those big bad OEM's are conspiring to screw you.

You seem to have the logical ability of a root vegetable with apologies to potatoes and turnips.

Here's a clue. Golf is played to shoot the lowest score, not to maximize fairways hit. They are very successful as their world ranking indicates. There is no prize money for a high percentage of fairways hit.

The game has changed since the 50's when hitting fairways was more important simply because the shorter drives dictated longer second shots with mid and long irons.

As to courses being set up easier by dictate of the OEM's, that is delusional. There are drugs and treatment available to treat your apparent condition.
[/quote]

If you think 45 plus shafts are better, go buy them.
If you think stronger lofts mean you hit the ball further, go buy them

No one is trying to stop you. Have no dog in this fight.

The technology/physics is that over 45 inches the droop , kick and twist cannot be controlled. The best golfers in the world prove that every week.

.

How long did it take the USGA to stand up to the OEM's on long putters/anchoring for putting?
The USGA could have taken a stand against the technology (balls, shafts and clubs) that have made our
golf courses obsolete.

What rock have you been hiding under? Longer drives are because of technology... primarily balls, and COR of drivers.
Thats not 'natural' evolution, or maybe you think Duston Johnson hits the ball over 350 yards because he pumps iron.

The USGA has not protected the integrity of the game or the courses. They sold out to capitalism.

If you think the oem's wouldnt sell an inferior product or try to sell you on BS methology, go buy more, please .. without you they will go out of business

Taylor made sales decreased 20% last year. 1 Million golfers are leaving the game every year.
Please, keep buying that s***.
[/quote]

This is kind of all over the place, so if USGA mandated playing persimmon, steel shafts and Tour Balatas, that 1 million golfers wouldnt have left the game?

And the gratuitous TM dig to complete the chaos.

[AMATEUR_GOLFER79]

This escalated quickly.


On a bright note, I come to realize that playing the 45 inch shaft somehow helps me hit the fade off the tee, where I don't hit it as consistent or far with the 43 inch shaft.

Been a draw/hooker of the ball my whole golfing life and wanted to play high fades off the tee to keep it in play and never worry about the hook OB left.

For the last 15 years I've always played between 44in and 45in and heavier shaft. Now I'm playing 45in and 60grams and I'm hitting it further and more consistent than ever. I have no fear of left anymore.

Now if I can just learn to hit the fade with the irons consistently.

[drbonesvt]

So how much clubhead speed should you expect to lose/gain for every 1/2 inch or 1inch?

 

There is no direct correlation for golfers between club length changes and clubhead speed results. The reason is because because of differences in golfer swing mechanics and athletic ability, specifically when different golfers unhinge the wrist c o c k release at different points in the downswing. The maximum clubhead speed any golfer will achieve for his ability will occur the moment the wrist c o c k angle has been fully released. From that point on, the club begins to slow down. For a very skilled player with a very late release, he will achieve his highest clubhead speed at the moment of impact. But for golfers with an early to midway to even late-ish release, their max speed happens before the clubhead gets to the ball.

 

In addition, most definitely for many golfers, the longer the driver length, the more that length causes their release to break down and happen earlier than if they use a shorter length driver. This is because the longer the length of the driver, the more load or stress the driver puts on the golfer and his swing mechanics. So with less skilled players who release the club early to midway on the downswing, it is not uncommon to see such a golfer change to a longer length driver and actually lose clubhead speed because the longer length is breaking down their release move earlier than would a shorter length driver.

 

Conversely, if the golfer has a very late release and good athletic ability, as long as he retains his very late release with the longer length driver, he can see a little increase in clubhead speed at impact. But that doesn't mean he still can retain the same on center hit percentage with that longer length. After all, there is a reason why the avg driver length on the PGA Tour has been in the area of 44.5" for many years and not the 45-46" driver length being sold off the rack to golfers.

 

This is one of the reasons why so many average golfers have seen an increase in distance when they move into a shorter length driver. The other reason is because shorter lengths are easier to control to end up achieving a higher percentage of on center hits. When you hit the ball off center, you lose distance because the combination of the lower COR off the center of the face plus the vibration of the head from an off center hit reduces the energy transfer from the head to the ball to result in a lower ball speed for the off center hit.

 

Bottom line is this. If you have an outside in path + faster aggressive tempo + early to midway release + not the best athletic ability, never use a driver longer than 43 1/2" to achieve the most consistent driver results for distance and control. For such a golfer going longer than that just starts to make things worse.

 

I know this is old post , but with the long driver , my swing path is better, not as inside 2-4* vs 5+ with a short driver

 

Aoa consistent with 44.5 and 45.5

 

The science behind that? I'm 6-2.5 wide shoulders

[CMBaviator_FR]

Its more complxd than that.

 

It depends on your morphology and on how you adress the ball. If you adress the ball like bradley, you msmay need a shorter shaft.

 

When Rory was with titleist I thibk he used the rombax 46 " shaft even if obly 1.75 m. j Rose uses a45.5 inches shaft.

[BY#99]

I can only speak of my results but I think there is a point where you have a length that works and going shorter may not benefit. For me, I too went away from a 45 inch driver and went shorter. Tried everything from 44-45 in length and for me, going shorter than 44.75-45 did not help me. I saw absolutely no difference in accuracy shortening the shaft at all but I did lose some distance.

 

However, when I tried the longer shafts at 45.5-45.75 I did notice less accuracy. So for me, it seems the 44.75-45 is my optimal length. Shortening in my case was counterproductive.

 

Maybe it is mental as much of golf is. Maybe a shorter shaft gives people more confidence? Again these are my results and yours most likely will vary.

[Stuart_G]

I know this is old post , but with the long driver , my swing path is better, not as inside 2-4* vs 5+ with a short driver

 

Aoa consistent with 44.5 and 45.5

 

The science behind that? I'm 6-2.5 wide shoulders

 

Unless you happen to have the same path issue with your 3wd and all of your shorter clubs - then it's not really an issue of the playing length alone. Lots of possibilities (and not all equipment based e.g. could be a basic set-up ball position issue). But from the equipment standpoint, it could mean the specific combination of playing length, shaft weight, and head weight happen to be not as good a fit in the shorter club as it was in the longer club. All 3 specs are important to get a good fit, you can't look at a change in one w/o also paying attention to the changes in the others.

[ULMgerman]

So how much clubhead speed should you expect to lose/gain for every 1/2 inch or 1inch?

 

robot 2-3mph. human could yield the same IF you coordinate the club as well with the longer shaft. Most of the time this is not the case however. Many people coordinate a shorter shaft better and can swing it even faster than one thats an inch longer. All depends on the golfer and should be tried out on a trackman.

[TomWishon]

I know this is old post , but with the long driver , my swing path is better, not as inside 2-4* vs 5+ with a short driver

 

Aoa consistent with 44.5 and 45.5

 

The science behind that? I'm 6-2.5 wide shoulders

 

Based on all of my many years of fitting research, it is my opinion that the reason you do better with the longer length is because of several reasons but the first being that the longer length is putting you into a little flatter swing plane which is enhancing your ability to rotate and turn better through the swing, and with it to keep the club more in front of you which is making your swing path better.

 

But along with that I have to believe that your normal swing tempo is reasonably smooth and fast/forceful/frenzied. Were you a very fast tempo swinger I cannot believe the longer length would be better.

 

But I have seen it several times when golfers go longer, get flatter with the swing plane, and from that find that change matches better with their inherent sense of swing control with the club.

[drbonesvt]

I know this is old post , but with the long driver , my swing path is better, not as inside 2-4* vs 5+ with a short driver

 

Aoa consistent with 44.5 and 45.5

 

The science behind that? I'm 6-2.5 wide shoulders

 

Based on all of my many years of fitting research, it is my opinion that the reason you do better with the longer length is because of several reasons but the first being that the longer length is putting you into a little flatter swing plane which is enhancing your ability to rotate and turn better through the swing, and with it to keep the club more in front of you which is making your swing path better.

 

But along with that I have to believe that your normal swing tempo is reasonably smooth and fast/forceful/frenzied. Were you a very fast tempo swinger I cannot believe the longer length would be better.

 

But I have seen it several times when golfers go longer, get flatter with the swing plane, and from that find that change matches better with their inherent sense of swing control with the club.

 

Thanks Tom , prett spot on , 3w is 90g shaft and heavy @43" , but the driver for some reason d4 45.5 is a sweet spot, i borderline on hitter swinger , put that ball on a tee and it's been the weak spot of my game recently

 

100% correct on the turn with the long driver , I think in essence it's helping my posture and spin angle maintain throughout the swing

[CHARGERS]

No driver should be longer than 45''. Control/accuracy over distance! The pros are usually no more than 44.5''.

 

It is ridiculous to deal in absolutes.

 

 

Droop, kick, twisting increase as length increases...;absolutely

There isnt a golf shaft made that will droop, kick, twist consistently playing length over 45 inches.

 

If there was, pros would all be playing over 45 inches.

Rory, Phil and Dustin all play drivers over 45 inches. They seem to do O.K.

 

 

2014

 

Rory no 1 in the world, ranked 108 in driving accuracy missing more than 40%

 

2015

 

Phil ranks 158 in driving accuracy missing more than 45%

 

Dustin ranks 199 in driving accuracy missing 50%

 

If some of the best golfers in the world cant hit more than 50 to 60% of fairways with shafts playing longer than 45 inches

how many fairways can a 10 or 20 hdcp golfer expect to hit?

 

They win tournaments and make millions on courses set up minimizing the penalty to miss fairways so mfg can sell suckers long drivers, over 45 inches.

 

Yes they do ok, so you keep buying.

Thx was hoping someone pointed this out

[ndabunka]

OK, I am an inside out swinger with the ability to draw or fade my current TM SLDR 430 driver at will. I am 5'10" and used to have a 103 swing speed with a 45" driver. Moved to a 46" driver and was seeing a 105 swing speed & 10+ yards more distance & better SMASH factor so hitting it more on the sweet spot. That was all 20 years ago. Now I am over 55 and my swing speed is down to 100MPH. I am playing a 45.5" long SLDR with a TP 6.3 shaft simply because that that is what came in it. Drives are still fairly consistent with my ONLY miss being a slight 1-2 degree push from not releasing early enough but that's only about once every 2 or 3 rounds and it's typically still well in play (but in the rough instead of fairway). I am a "traveling 9" & used to be a 2 in college (35+ years ago). I am planning on retaining the same swing weight on my SLDR by adding an inch to the butt and counter weighting it as well as putting in lighter SLDR head weights (reducing from 20g to 10g total). Hoping to get back to those 280 yard drives once again. No need to try to "talk me out" of making it longer as I could always choke up & change the weights back if I need too). Only real question is has anyone tried this with a TP 6.3 shaft & did they need a lot of butt weight to keep the swing weight at a D3? In the past I have used one of the "Secret" grips for counterweighting in a 2 iron that worked REALLY well (Yes, I also added head weight at the same time). Would this grip with 17grams of weight be too much for this experiment?

[Howard_Jones]

Adding grip weight is adding total weight, and if you want higher club speed, your club has to be too light now for that to work, and tracing SW values like you do is not the way to go, the SW scale will never swing your clubs, so when you use it like it was a "idol" you will never make it right. The only way to keep resistance from head weight down when going longer is reducing head weight, that cant be done adding total weight by using a heavy grip.

 

Go longer, remove a weight from the head like you describe and use the grip you normally plays what ever that is, then you have a fair chance, just forget counter balancing. if you think counterbalance is the way to go, take a tee and add 15-17 grams of spacer shims to the tee, push the tee down in the ventilation hole at the butt and fix it all with some tape and try that off.