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My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper


Andus

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> @cw1209 said:

> Forgiveness is only half the equation when looking at blades vs GI irons. If ball striking is consistent, the second question is trajectory. Pro's talk about hitting through a desired "window", which is another way of saying "do I hit this too high or too low"? In a blade, the CG location is invariably higher than a GI cavity back. You can check this by taking a look at measured vertical center of gravity (VCOG) (reference Maltby's Playability Factor ratings). Maltby counts a relatively high VCOG as a bad thing, but it really comes down to how you hit the ball. Anything under .8 is easier to elevate and anything above .8 is going to provide a lower flight and more "control". If you hit a high ball with a consistent strike, blades are perfect. If you hit a low ball, even with a consistent strike, blades will do you no favors when trying to hold a green and maximize carry. Roll out with an 8 iron doesn't do anyone any good. This is why combo sets work well for many. Lower CG, higher MOI cavity backs in the long irons for forgiveness AND higher trajectory to hit the desired "window". Higher CG, lower MOI blades in the short irons for control and lower trajectory.

 

So, I think part of the reason this thread keeps going in circles is because we all have different swings, and more to the point, not all muscleback irons are created equal.

 

My MP-4s have a sub .8 VCOG. I find them easy to launch and control, in keeping with their low VCOG. I also have an MP-14 6 iron that I've taken to the sim. VCOG is way below .8, and I don't find it hard to hit well. The MBs that folks often rave about can make a lot of sense when you look at the VCOG and specs, to the point that a good MB can compare favorably against a player's CB.

 

 

> @dciccoritti said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > Here’s the thing, if you don’t hit virtually EVERY shot dead on the button solid there is no benefit to playing them. That’s no bs comparison that is an undeniable fact.

>

> Wrong. Just a preconceived delusional perspective that is not even remotely based in reality.

>

> Here's Coach Lockey testing the new G410's. Toe strike shows a loss of almost 20 yards with a so called 7 iron.

>

> 171

> 172

> 182

> 182

> 164

>

> Ball speed all over the place with a variance of 8mph. What a joke :-)

>

> Dan was more consistent though yet still had a 7 yard variance. How could that be with an SGI of all things? Even he had a 5 mph variance in ball speed. Should I post a video of Dan and Mark's ball speed and carry variance testing a 718 MB? Of course not. That would be completely wasted on you and some others because this is not really a discussion is it? Just a thread where 'some' troll and spin their preconceived notions. Like I've always said, play what you like but don't tell me what I'm gaining or losing due to my choice in equipment. I play blades and that's why I'm here. You won't find me trolling in a P790 thread preaching what they're gaining or losing playing hollow body irons.

>

> I'll post the video for the lurkers and the open minded.

>

>

 

I think this video is helpful, and lines up with my experience. I've owned SGI and GI irons, and they struggled with wide variance between good and bad shots in my hands. If my vertical dispersion and directional control was consistent and accurate with the SGI/GI irons, I wouldn't have switched.

 

Fact is, golf is hard and SGI and GI irons don't make the game easier in my hands. Hence, I've stopped playing them, and my handicap is improving. Better yet, my iron striking is now a strength--if I clean up my lag putting, I'll almost look like a competent golfer. : )

 

The point about hitting shots into a window is a good one. My ballstriking has become reliable and accurate, but I do have a sense I might benefit from some iron experimentation to get me into a reliable 45 degree (or more) descent angle with my irons. If it's with a cavity back rather than an MB, I'll play it and see if it helps my game. If it's just a shaft tweak, even better. But I'll still expect my misses and toe strikes to show up on my score card, because...well...golf is hard and equipment isn't a magic bullet, or we'd all be on tour.

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> @balls_deep said:

> > @dciccoritti said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > I'm talking about a very compact players CB vs MB. No increased chance of fliers but more consistent ball speed across the face.

> >

> > You got that backwards.

>

> What on earth. Please tell me you're trying to say that ball speed is more consistent on off centre hits with an MB vs a CB. This thread is so broken. Play blades if you want because you like them, just don't spew fallacies.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying....I mean if you read your reply carefully :-)

 

 

 

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > I'm talking about a very compact players CB vs MB. No increased chance of fliers but more consistent ball speed across the face.

> > >

> > > You got that backwards.

> >

> > What on earth. Please tell me you're trying to say that ball speed is more consistent on off centre hits with an MB vs a CB. This thread is so broken. Play blades if you want because you like them, just don't spew fallacies.

>

> Fallacies it what keeps them going.

 

LOL :-)

 

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > Maybe the comparisons are weak, and the argument as well...

> >

> > but you still can’t answer the question.

> >

> > Again, do you play cb wedges?

> >

> > They are more forgiving as you say....perhaps you hit them dead on the button every time? If you don’t, then maybe your game will be helped - improved - by cb wedges since all cb’s are more forgiving. So which is it?

> >

>

> You’re really reaching to try and make an argument. I would have no issue playing a CB wedge if more were available even though forgiveness with a high lofted club is pretty much moot. I’m not a double digit HC playing blades though.

 

 

... I thought it was interesting that Ogletree flew the green yesterday with a MB gap wedge. He had 151 to the pin and flew the ball a good 10 yds past it and off the back of the green. Said he could not believe a gap wedge flew that far. Had this been a CB wedge we would have that same old tired argument that the club caused the flyer. Soooooooo many comments from mid index players (only here of course) about how a MB goes the exact same distance shot after shot and they never have a flyer after experiencing many flyers with a CB. Even the very best Am's on the planet hit one shot longer than another because of adrenaline, perfect swing/perfect contact combo or several other reasons that don't include the style of iron.

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Driver:       TM Qi10 ... Ventus Velocore Red 5R
Fairway:    Cobra Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:    Ping G430 22* ... Alta CB Black 70r
                  TM Dhy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r

Irons:         Titleist T200 '23 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:    Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:       Cobra King Sport-60
Ball:            2023 Maxfli Tour

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> @dciccoritti said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > I'm talking about a very compact players CB vs MB. No increased chance of fliers but more consistent ball speed across the face.

> > > >

> > > > You got that backwards.

> > >

> > > What on earth. Please tell me you're trying to say that ball speed is more consistent on off centre hits with an MB vs a CB. This thread is so broken. Play blades if you want because you like them, just don't spew fallacies.

> >

> > Fallacies it what keeps them going.

>

> LOL :-)

>

>

 

So to be clear, you believe that the Titleist MB provides the exact same distance retention and line on a miss hit when compared to the CB? No difference in forgiveness?

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> @chisag said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @jpdx said:

> > > Maybe the comparisons are weak, and the argument as well...

> > >

> > > but you still can’t answer the question.

> > >

> > > Again, do you play cb wedges?

> > >

> > > They are more forgiving as you say....perhaps you hit them dead on the button every time? If you don’t, then maybe your game will be helped - improved - by cb wedges since all cb’s are more forgiving. So which is it?

> > >

> >

> > You’re really reaching to try and make an argument. I would have no issue playing a CB wedge if more were available even though forgiveness with a high lofted club is pretty much moot. I’m not a double digit HC playing blades though.

>

>

> ... I thought it was interesting that Ogletree flew the green yesterday with a MB gap wedge. He had 151 to the pin and flew the ball a good 10 yds past it and off the back of the green. Said he could not believe a gap wedge flew that far. Had this been a CB wedge we would have that same old tired argument that the club caused the flyer. Soooooooo many comments from mid index players (only here of course) about how a MB goes the exact same distance shot after shot and they never have a flyer after experiencing many flyers with a CB. Even the very best Am's on the planet hit one shot longer than another because of adrenaline, perfect swing/perfect contact combo or several other reasons that don't include the style of iron.

 

With a CB that retains ball speed on mishits, basic physics tells you that there must be some trade off if the spin generated is not optimum for the loft. The ‘old-fashioned’ flyer only ever occurred from the rough when blades of grass got caught between club face and ball reducing the spin generated but with club head speed maintained. Modern CBs have created this new phenomenon as explained by TM engineers who design clubs:

“Other than height, one of the biggest concerns serious golfers have about RocketBladez Tour irons is their disposition to a “flyer,” which happens when a golfer catches a shot slightly above the sweet spot on the club face. The higher contact point gives golfers almost all of the speed of a center hit, but it drastically reduces spin, which causes iron shots to fly much farther than intended.

 

TaylorMade engineers said they fixed the hot spot problem by making the sweet spot of the RocketBladez Tour irons much larger. According to Sean Toulon, executive vice president for TaylorMade, the sweet spot of a RocketBladez Tour iron is about the size of a quarter, while the sweet spot of TaylorMade’s most recent muscle back iron is closer to the size of a pea.

 

So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.”

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff or Mizuno MP4 4-PW
Vokey SM8 52/58; MD Golf 56
Radius Classic 8

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> @mahonie said:

> > @chisag said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > Maybe the comparisons are weak, and the argument as well...

> > > >

> > > > but you still can’t answer the question.

> > > >

> > > > Again, do you play cb wedges?

> > > >

> > > > They are more forgiving as you say....perhaps you hit them dead on the button every time? If you don’t, then maybe your game will be helped - improved - by cb wedges since all cb’s are more forgiving. So which is it?

> > > >

> > >

> > > You’re really reaching to try and make an argument. I would have no issue playing a CB wedge if more were available even though forgiveness with a high lofted club is pretty much moot. I’m not a double digit HC playing blades though.

> >

> >

> > ... I thought it was interesting that Ogletree flew the green yesterday with a MB gap wedge. He had 151 to the pin and flew the ball a good 10 yds past it and off the back of the green. Said he could not believe a gap wedge flew that far. Had this been a CB wedge we would have that same old tired argument that the club caused the flyer. Soooooooo many comments from mid index players (only here of course) about how a MB goes the exact same distance shot after shot and they never have a flyer after experiencing many flyers with a CB. Even the very best Am's on the planet hit one shot longer than another because of adrenaline, perfect swing/perfect contact combo or several other reasons that don't include the style of iron.

>

> With a CB that retains ball speed on mishits, basic physics tells you that there must be some trade off if the spin generated is not optimum for the loft. The ‘old-fashioned’ flyer only ever occurred from the rough when blades of grass got caught between club face and ball reducing the spin generated but with club head speed maintained. Modern CBs have created this new phenomenon as explained by TM engineers who design clubs:

> “Other than height, one of the biggest concerns serious golfers have about RocketBladez Tour irons is their disposition to a “flyer,” which happens when a golfer catches a shot slightly above the sweet spot on the club face. The higher contact point gives golfers almost all of the speed of a center hit, but it drastically reduces spin, which causes iron shots to fly much farther than intended.

>

> TaylorMade engineers said they fixed the hot spot problem by making the sweet spot of the RocketBladez Tour irons much larger. According to Sean Toulon, executive vice president for TaylorMade, the sweet spot of a RocketBladez Tour iron is about the size of a quarter, while the sweet spot of TaylorMade’s most recent muscle back iron is closer to the size of a pea.

>

> So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.”

 

Except over 70% of tour players don’t play blades. I’ll add that the ones that do hit that pea size sweet spot virtually every time. Hell pretty much every tour player hits it virtually every time regardless of club.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > > Maybe the comparisons are weak, and the argument as well...

> > > > >

> > > > > but you still can’t answer the question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, do you play cb wedges?

> > > > >

> > > > > They are more forgiving as you say....perhaps you hit them dead on the button every time? If you don’t, then maybe your game will be helped - improved - by cb wedges since all cb’s are more forgiving. So which is it?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You’re really reaching to try and make an argument. I would have no issue playing a CB wedge if more were available even though forgiveness with a high lofted club is pretty much moot. I’m not a double digit HC playing blades though.

> > >

> > >

> > > ... I thought it was interesting that Ogletree flew the green yesterday with a MB gap wedge. He had 151 to the pin and flew the ball a good 10 yds past it and off the back of the green. Said he could not believe a gap wedge flew that far. Had this been a CB wedge we would have that same old tired argument that the club caused the flyer. Soooooooo many comments from mid index players (only here of course) about how a MB goes the exact same distance shot after shot and they never have a flyer after experiencing many flyers with a CB. Even the very best Am's on the planet hit one shot longer than another because of adrenaline, perfect swing/perfect contact combo or several other reasons that don't include the style of iron.

> >

> > With a CB that retains ball speed on mishits, basic physics tells you that there must be some trade off if the spin generated is not optimum for the loft. The ‘old-fashioned’ flyer only ever occurred from the rough when blades of grass got caught between club face and ball reducing the spin generated but with club head speed maintained. Modern CBs have created this new phenomenon as explained by TM engineers who design clubs:

> > “Other than height, one of the biggest concerns serious golfers have about RocketBladez Tour irons is their disposition to a “flyer,” which happens when a golfer catches a shot slightly above the sweet spot on the club face. The higher contact point gives golfers almost all of the speed of a center hit, but it drastically reduces spin, which causes iron shots to fly much farther than intended.

> >

> > TaylorMade engineers said they fixed the hot spot problem by making the sweet spot of the RocketBladez Tour irons much larger. According to Sean Toulon, executive vice president for TaylorMade, the sweet spot of a RocketBladez Tour iron is about the size of a quarter, while the sweet spot of TaylorMade’s most recent muscle back iron is closer to the size of a pea.

> >

> > So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.”

>

> Except over 70% of tour players don’t play blades. I’ll add that the ones that do hit that pea size sweet spot virtually every time. **** pretty much every tour player hits it virtually every time regardless of club.

 

70% of Tour players are journeymen who are eking out a living like the rest of us just doing a job. I can only think of 3 or 4 pros that play CBs that may be competing every week. If they worked that well, wouldn’t they all be using them?

 

The CB flyer is a thing and cannot be ignored by those whose consistency is nowhere near a pro who may never be impacted by it. Your very own P790s are one of the clubs with a bad reputation for flyers, I just assume that you must never hit it a fraction high on the face if you’ve never experienced it. The first time you do, I just hope that your confidence isn’t shaken...not knowing how far you’re going to hit it really does mess with head and your game ends up going south pretty quickly.

 

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff or Mizuno MP4 4-PW
Vokey SM8 52/58; MD Golf 56
Radius Classic 8

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> @balls_deep said:

> > @dciccoritti said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > > I'm talking about a very compact players CB vs MB. No increased chance of fliers but more consistent ball speed across the face.

> > > > >

> > > > > You got that backwards.

> > > >

> > > > What on earth. Please tell me you're trying to say that ball speed is more consistent on off centre hits with an MB vs a CB. This thread is so broken. Play blades if you want because you like them, just don't spew fallacies.

> > >

> > > Fallacies it what keeps them going.

> >

> > LOL :-)

> >

> >

>

> So to be clear, you believe that the Titleist MB provides the exact same distance retention and line on a miss hit when compared to the CB? No difference in forgiveness?

 

Consistency better with MB's. Difference in mishits minuscule...and I mean minuscule. However the consistency overrides that dramatically. Better scores with tighter variances. Blades win. Evidence is overwhelming. Today's technology only nets 3 yards in peak height with CB's/Hollowbody irons. Spin with CB's and hollow body irons are more loft per loft. They do not 'spin less'.

 

Swing speed has nothing to do with forgiveness and wherever anyone switches over from irons to UT's/Hybrids/Woods, ball flight will be more optimized and consistency begins to suffer. Everything is a trade off.

 

Ego rules. Faux distance sells. Forgiveness is the veil that almost everyone hides behind. Justification if you will.

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So, here was my 9-hole round yesterday. I shot 49, with 22 putts. Most of my strokes are being lost with wedge play and putting.

 

Hole 1 (Par 4): Good drive with a draw on a dog leg left. Left me about 105 yards to the pin, but with a blind approach shot from behind a ridge. Hit a 9 iron with good contact and direction, but I was aimed left of where i thought the pin was. Ball was in rough about 30 feet from pin. I might have lost some yardage from contact, as it was my first iron shot. Short chip on left me 20 feet, down a small ridge on the green. 3 putt for double bogey. (3 mistakes, net +2 on card. Possible stroke could have been saved with more mishit protection if I was on green rather than rough. But, mistake is also partly club choice, partly first iron swing, and partly blind approach. Still, will give a point in favor of different iron choice.)

MP-4: 0, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 2 (Par 3): Hit a good 6 iron off the tee to the middle of the green, about 150-ish yards, as intended. Only person of my random pairing to hit the green. As it turns out, pin was in the back, leaving me about 12 yards of putting. Poor lag putt—>3 putt. Bogey. (Good iron shot, wrong club selection. Bad course management and bad putting. 2 mistakes, +1 on score. Current irons get a thumbs up.)

MP-4: 1, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 3 (Par 5): Good drive and 3 wood left me with about 95 yards in, on an uphill fairway lie. Pin is in the front, below a ridge. Rest of the green is off to the right. I aim at the pin with my PW, and wind up a little long—about 10 feet. Shot is straight and high, but buries itself in the rough on a hill right behind the green. Chip and 2 putt for bogie. (Iron strike was good and accurate. Hard pin placement—might have been better off taking my 50 degree and chancing a short shot that runs up to the front, but I think between the lie and the hard pin location, my irons were fine.

Middle of the green would have put me uphill and some distance from the pin, so I’ll put this one on a better chip or more accurate putting for the +1 on the card. Still, not a bad hole.)

MP-4: 1, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 4 (Par 3): Short 9 iron over sand to middle of green, about 10 feet from pin and straight. 2 putt for par. (Clean hole, good iron play).

MP-4: 2, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 5 (par 4): Long par 4. Good drive. Topped 3 wood about 40 yards. Second three wood went about 190 and landed middle green. Sadly, green was in back, so still had 10 yards to go. 3 putt. Double bogey. (2 mistakes, +2 to card, no iron play)

MP-4: 2, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 6 (Par 5): Drive went into fairway bunker. Sand wedge to get back out. Good 3 wood to a spot about 90 yards from the pin, but in rough. Pin is in front, near rough and below a ridge. Went with a 9 iron for extra help getting through rough and in case I would lose a club of distance from rough—would normally go pitching wedge. Struck ball well—pitch mark about 5 feet left of flag, but ball had another 5 yards of carry with a hop up the ridge, into rough. Chip from rough down the hill came out too hot, rolling off the green and giving me another 10 feet away from green. Second chip got me back to the green. 2 putt. Triple bogey. (3 mistakes, +3 to card. Should probably have gone with pitching wedge out of the rough, on the idea that short of the green was a safe miss and better than being up the ridge. Bad course management rather than bad iron play, and mistakes off the tee and with chipping/putting were the major culprit.)

MP-4: 2, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 7 (Par 4): Good drive. 135 yards left to front pin. Bunker about 15 feet to left of flag. Took dead aim at flag— hit a nice ball with a moderate draw that found the bunker. Pilot error on aim—should have aimed right of the flag, knowing that my stock shape is a draw. Splashed out and 2 putt for bogey. (1 mistake, +1 to card. Bad course management, good iron strike)

MP-4: 2, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 8 (Par 5, 180 carry over water from tee)

Drive cleared water but found rough. 5 wood out of rough cleared 2nd water hazard and found left side of fairway, but rolled into left fairway bunker. Splashed out, leaving 75 yards to green. 54 degree wedge was fine on distance but a little bit right, landing in rough to the right of green about 15 feet from pin. Good chip onto green, 2 putt. (2 mistakes, +2 to card, no iron play).

MP-4: 2, Other irons: 1

 

Hole 9 (Par 3): 2 tier green. Flag is on the lower tier, in a small 10 yard target area surrounded by bunkers. Using my hard lesson from #7, I aimed for the upper tier and landed the ball on front/middle of green, close to pin high. Putt down the slope had a bit of speed and was hard to control, leaving an 8 footer for par. Missed the 8 footer about a foot short, and tapped in for bogey. (Good iron play, hard pin location, 3 putt but happy with the bogey. +1 to card).

 

MP-4: 3, Other irons: 1

 

Recap: Shot a high round, but my iron play wasn’t the culprit. This was yesterday, but it’s common for a lot of my rounds. Most of my iron shots are good quality with good direction and control. Places I can shave strokes are putting, chipping, and course management. Slightly more ball speed on off-center strikes or improved descent angle is a nice but marginal issue and isn’t the gatekeeper for lower scores for me.

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What I find most interesting about this discussion is how much other people care what irons other people play.

 

The thing with blades is - they don't lie to you. They tell you to be better. Practice. Work. Learn. Treat them properly and you will be rewarded. Treat them poorly and you will suffer.

 

I dunno man; I prefer honesty. But if you wanna think you can hit an 8 iron 180 yards; you do you, bro.

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Titleist TSR3 10° Ventus Black

Titleist TS2 18° Diamana D+

Titleist TSR2 21° Diamana D+ 

Titleist TSi2 24° Diamana D+

Titleist T100 5-7, 620MB 8-PW Axiom 105S

Vokey 50.8°F, 56.14°F, 60.12°D Axiom 125X

Scotty Cameron Newport MMT Putter Concept

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> @aenemated said:

> What I find most interesting about this discussion is how much other people care what irons other people play.

>

> The thing with blades is - they don't lie to you. They tell you to be better. Practice. Work. Learn. Treat them properly and you will be rewarded. Treat them poorly and you will suffer.

>

> I dunno man; I prefer honesty. But if you wanna think you can hit an 8 iron 180 yards; you do you, bro.

 

Another goofy analogy. There is no reward to playing something for years and not getting better. Just because you use something above your skill level doesn’t mean practice will automatically make you better.

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> @mahonie said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @chisag said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > > > Maybe the comparisons are weak, and the argument as well...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but you still can’t answer the question.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again, do you play cb wedges?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They are more forgiving as you say....perhaps you hit them dead on the button every time? If you don’t, then maybe your game will be helped - improved - by cb wedges since all cb’s are more forgiving. So which is it?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You’re really reaching to try and make an argument. I would have no issue playing a CB wedge if more were available even though forgiveness with a high lofted club is pretty much moot. I’m not a double digit HC playing blades though.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ... I thought it was interesting that Ogletree flew the green yesterday with a MB gap wedge. He had 151 to the pin and flew the ball a good 10 yds past it and off the back of the green. Said he could not believe a gap wedge flew that far. Had this been a CB wedge we would have that same old tired argument that the club caused the flyer. Soooooooo many comments from mid index players (only here of course) about how a MB goes the exact same distance shot after shot and they never have a flyer after experiencing many flyers with a CB. Even the very best Am's on the planet hit one shot longer than another because of adrenaline, perfect swing/perfect contact combo or several other reasons that don't include the style of iron.

> > >

> > > With a CB that retains ball speed on mishits, basic physics tells you that there must be some trade off if the spin generated is not optimum for the loft. The ‘old-fashioned’ flyer only ever occurred from the rough when blades of grass got caught between club face and ball reducing the spin generated but with club head speed maintained. Modern CBs have created this new phenomenon as explained by TM engineers who design clubs:

> > > “Other than height, one of the biggest concerns serious golfers have about RocketBladez Tour irons is their disposition to a “flyer,” which happens when a golfer catches a shot slightly above the sweet spot on the club face. The higher contact point gives golfers almost all of the speed of a center hit, but it drastically reduces spin, which causes iron shots to fly much farther than intended.

> > >

> > > TaylorMade engineers said they fixed the hot spot problem by making the sweet spot of the RocketBladez Tour irons much larger. According to Sean Toulon, executive vice president for TaylorMade, the sweet spot of a RocketBladez Tour iron is about the size of a quarter, while the sweet spot of TaylorMade’s most recent muscle back iron is closer to the size of a pea.

> > >

> > > So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.”

> >

> > Except over 70% of tour players don’t play blades. I’ll add that the ones that do hit that pea size sweet spot virtually every time. **** pretty much every tour player hits it virtually every time regardless of club.

>

> 70% of Tour players are journeymen who are eking out a living like the rest of us just doing a job. I can only think of 3 or 4 pros that play CBs that may be competing every week. If they worked that well, wouldn’t they all be using them?

>

> The CB flyer is a thing and cannot be ignored by those whose consistency is nowhere near a pro who may never be impacted by it. Your very own P790s are one of the clubs with a bad reputation for flyers, I just assume that you must never hit it a fraction high on the face if you’ve never experienced it. The first time you do, I just hope that your confidence isn’t shaken...not knowing how far you’re going to hit it really does mess with head and your game ends up going south pretty quickly.

>

 

Whatever you have to tell yourself to try and validate your stance however absurd it is.

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This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > @chisag said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > > > > Maybe the comparisons are weak, and the argument as well...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but you still can’t answer the question.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again, do you play cb wedges?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > They are more forgiving as you say....perhaps you hit them dead on the button every time? If you don’t, then maybe your game will be helped - improved - by cb wedges since all cb’s are more forgiving. So which is it?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You’re really reaching to try and make an argument. I would have no issue playing a CB wedge if more were available even though forgiveness with a high lofted club is pretty much moot. I’m not a double digit HC playing blades though.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ... I thought it was interesting that Ogletree flew the green yesterday with a MB gap wedge. He had 151 to the pin and flew the ball a good 10 yds past it and off the back of the green. Said he could not believe a gap wedge flew that far. Had this been a CB wedge we would have that same old tired argument that the club caused the flyer. Soooooooo many comments from mid index players (only here of course) about how a MB goes the exact same distance shot after shot and they never have a flyer after experiencing many flyers with a CB. Even the very best Am's on the planet hit one shot longer than another because of adrenaline, perfect swing/perfect contact combo or several other reasons that don't include the style of iron.

> > > >

> > > > With a CB that retains ball speed on mishits, basic physics tells you that there must be some trade off if the spin generated is not optimum for the loft. The ‘old-fashioned’ flyer only ever occurred from the rough when blades of grass got caught between club face and ball reducing the spin generated but with club head speed maintained. Modern CBs have created this new phenomenon as explained by TM engineers who design clubs:

> > > > “Other than height, one of the biggest concerns serious golfers have about RocketBladez Tour irons is their disposition to a “flyer,” which happens when a golfer catches a shot slightly above the sweet spot on the club face. The higher contact point gives golfers almost all of the speed of a center hit, but it drastically reduces spin, which causes iron shots to fly much farther than intended.

> > > >

> > > > TaylorMade engineers said they fixed the hot spot problem by making the sweet spot of the RocketBladez Tour irons much larger. According to Sean Toulon, executive vice president for TaylorMade, the sweet spot of a RocketBladez Tour iron is about the size of a quarter, while the sweet spot of TaylorMade’s most recent muscle back iron is closer to the size of a pea.

> > > >

> > > > So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.”

> > >

> > > Except over 70% of tour players don’t play blades. I’ll add that the ones that do hit that pea size sweet spot virtually every time. **** pretty much every tour player hits it virtually every time regardless of club.

> >

> > 70% of Tour players are journeymen who are eking out a living like the rest of us just doing a job. I can only think of 3 or 4 pros that play CBs that may be competing every week. If they worked that well, wouldn’t they all be using them?

> >

> > The CB flyer is a thing and cannot be ignored by those whose consistency is nowhere near a pro who may never be impacted by it. Your very own P790s are one of the clubs with a bad reputation for flyers, I just assume that you must never hit it a fraction high on the face if you’ve never experienced it. The first time you do, I just hope that your confidence isn’t shaken...not knowing how far you’re going to hit it really does mess with head and your game ends up going south pretty quickly.

> >

>

> Whatever you have to tell yourself to try and validate your stance however absurd it is.

 

I don’t have to tell myself anything. My validation is being undefeated against CB players this season in scratch matches when I have been giving at least 3 shots away in handicap. 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Division 1 Order of Merit in last 3 years...that’s a bit of validation...actual results on the course...just adds to the confidence in the clubs to be honest.

 

Serious question. Do you not think you could play a bit better and get below a 6 cap with MBs or is 6 as low as you’re going to get from now on, that is your full potential as it were?

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff or Mizuno MP4 4-PW
Vokey SM8 52/58; MD Golf 56
Radius Classic 8

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> @balls_deep said:

> This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

 

In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

 

All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

 

I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

 

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @BMC said:

> > Another win for blades today on tour.

>

> Lol. Double digit HCs living vicariously through world class players and ball strikers.

Use the tools the best use. The rest is on the player. Having the right tool is a start.

 

 

PING Rapture ^10 driver

Callaway UW 19^

PING Anser Forged Irons 3-pw
PING Forged wedges
Wilson 8802 Putter

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> @dciccoritti said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

>

> In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

>

> All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

>

> I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

>

 

> @dciccoritti said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

>

> In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

>

> All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

>

> I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

>

 

I did reply to the miss hit video comment. I play to a decent standard, have good speed, and hit the center almost every time. I've hit lots of different clubs, and I can tell you from my own testing (hitting shot after shot with different clubs on the same hole), that a small CB will 1. Retain distance better and 2. Resist the face opening on a toe strike holding its line better. I've hit what felt a near perfect strike but the drop off led me to a slightly shorter carry into water. Reloaded and hit my CB 7 with an equivalent strike and it's on the green near the pin. There's a reason many great players use CBs. I had a few fliers from average lies with the MP5 and I've had a couple with CBs but on the fairway my CB work as good as any MB for controlling distance. I'd argue better because the flight window stays consistent. Anywhere near the middle and I know I'm getting my stock distance. Blades have a place. If you're hitting the middle every time they're fantastic. No better feeling for feedback and working the ball. They are the best irons they are - I agree with that. Thing is, they just flat out aren't for the guy shooting over 80. In the 70s all the time? Why not. I can play both, I just want to score the best I possibly can.

 

For the record, I am in complete support of combo sets as players improve. The knob jockey above saying people using any CBs in their irons should be using CB wedges obviously doesn't understand golf - miss hit a bladed 3 iron vs a 58 degree wedge and tell me which has more leeway for strike variance.

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> @balls_deep said:

> > @dciccoritti said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> >

> > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> >

> > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> >

> > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> >

>

> > @dciccoritti said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> >

> > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> >

> > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> >

> > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> >

>

> I did reply to the miss hit video comment. I play to a decent standard, have good speed, and hit the center almost every time. I've hit lots of different clubs, and I can tell you from my own testing (hitting shot after shot with different clubs on the same hole), that a small CB will 1. Retain distance better and 2. Resist the face opening on a toe strike holding its line better. I've hit what felt a near perfect strike but the drop off led me to a slightly shorter carry into water. Reloaded and hit my CB 7 with an equivalent strike and it's on the green near the pin. There's a reason many great players use CBs. I had a few fliers from average lies with the MP5 and I've had a couple with CBs but on the fairway my CB work as good as any MB for controlling distance. I'd argue better because the flight window stays consistent. Anywhere near the middle and I know I'm getting my stock distance. Blades have a place. If you're hitting the middle every time they're fantastic. No better feeling for feedback and working the ball. They are the best irons they are - I agree with that. Thing is, they just flat out aren't for the guy shooting over 80. In the 70s all the time? Why not. I can play both, I just want to score the best I possibly can.

>

> For the record, I am in complete support of combo sets as players improve. The knob jockey above saying people using any CBs in their irons should be using CB wedges obviously doesn't understand golf - miss hit a bladed 3 iron vs a 58 degree wedge and tell me which has more leeway for strike variance.

 

 

I also want to score the best that I can. And my personal results have shown that over time I have played better with some blades in the bag, and certainly better than a full cb set. That, is my experience.

 

I would also encourage anyone with any semblance of a swing to try them out. They may surprise you. Worst case? You know that blades are not for you.

 

Edit: took out first line that may be offensive to some people.

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> @jpdx said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> > >

> > > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> > >

> > > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> > >

> > > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> > >

> >

> > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> > >

> > > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> > >

> > > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> > >

> > > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> > >

> >

> > I did reply to the miss hit video comment. I play to a decent standard, have good speed, and hit the center almost every time. I've hit lots of different clubs, and I can tell you from my own testing (hitting shot after shot with different clubs on the same hole), that a small CB will 1. Retain distance better and 2. Resist the face opening on a toe strike holding its line better. I've hit what felt a near perfect strike but the drop off led me to a slightly shorter carry into water. Reloaded and hit my CB 7 with an equivalent strike and it's on the green near the pin. There's a reason many great players use CBs. I had a few fliers from average lies with the MP5 and I've had a couple with CBs but on the fairway my CB work as good as any MB for controlling distance. I'd argue better because the flight window stays consistent. Anywhere near the middle and I know I'm getting my stock distance. Blades have a place. If you're hitting the middle every time they're fantastic. No better feeling for feedback and working the ball. They are the best irons they are - I agree with that. Thing is, they just flat out aren't for the guy shooting over 80. In the 70s all the time? Why not. I can play both, I just want to score the best I possibly can.

> >

> > For the record, I am in complete support of combo sets as players improve. The knob jockey above saying people using any CBs in their irons should be using CB wedges obviously doesn't understand golf - miss hit a bladed 3 iron vs a 58 degree wedge and tell me which has more leeway for strike variance.

>

> Yeah some people really are knob jockeys aren’t they?

>

> I also want to score the best that I can. And my personal results have shown that over time I have played better with some blades in the bag, and certainly better than a full cb set. That, is my experience.

>

> I would also encourage anyone with any semblance of a swing to try them out. They may surprise you. Worst case? You know that blades are not for you.

>

 

If you don’t hit CBs in the middle of the face dead solid then you won’t hit MBs in the middle of the face dead solid. Contact is numero uno when selecting an iron. Play what you want as nobody cares just don’t try to make someone believe bs. That’s what the main issue is in these discussions, someone trying to make people believe they are an exception to the rule. You are not. A bad golfer can play bad with anything and nobody denies that.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> > > >

> > > > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> > > >

> > > > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> > > >

> > > > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> > > >

> > >

> > > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> > > >

> > > > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> > > >

> > > > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> > > >

> > > > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I did reply to the miss hit video comment. I play to a decent standard, have good speed, and hit the center almost every time. I've hit lots of different clubs, and I can tell you from my own testing (hitting shot after shot with different clubs on the same hole), that a small CB will 1. Retain distance better and 2. Resist the face opening on a toe strike holding its line better. I've hit what felt a near perfect strike but the drop off led me to a slightly shorter carry into water. Reloaded and hit my CB 7 with an equivalent strike and it's on the green near the pin. There's a reason many great players use CBs. I had a few fliers from average lies with the MP5 and I've had a couple with CBs but on the fairway my CB work as good as any MB for controlling distance. I'd argue better because the flight window stays consistent. Anywhere near the middle and I know I'm getting my stock distance. Blades have a place. If you're hitting the middle every time they're fantastic. No better feeling for feedback and working the ball. They are the best irons they are - I agree with that. Thing is, they just flat out aren't for the guy shooting over 80. In the 70s all the time? Why not. I can play both, I just want to score the best I possibly can.

> > >

> > > For the record, I am in complete support of combo sets as players improve. The knob jockey above saying people using any CBs in their irons should be using CB wedges obviously doesn't understand golf - miss hit a bladed 3 iron vs a 58 degree wedge and tell me which has more leeway for strike variance.

> >

> > Yeah some people really are knob jockeys aren’t they?

> >

> > I also want to score the best that I can. And my personal results have shown that over time I have played better with some blades in the bag, and certainly better than a full cb set. That, is my experience.

> >

> > I would also encourage anyone with any semblance of a swing to try them out. They may surprise you. Worst case? You know that blades are not for you.

> >

>

> If you don’t hit CBs in the middle of the face dead solid then you won’t hit MBs in the middle of the face dead solid. Contact is numero uno when selecting an iron. Play what you want as nobody cares just don’t try to make someone believe bs. That’s what the main issue is in these discussions, someone trying to make people believe they are an exception to the rule. You are not. A bad golfer can play bad with anything and nobody denies that.

 

And if contact is consistently better with the MB’s, they should play mbs...Since contact is numero uno right?

 

There could be numerous reason why I play better with my blades. But why I do, doesn’t mean you would. It could be that I prefer looking down on blades, it could give me greater confidence, and unless you can read my mind, who are you to tell me it doesn’t?

 

Or could be the blades are better fit and I strike better (my are standard length/loft I had them bent 2* flat - as opposed to my cbs shortened, and bent flat 2*)... It could be the shafts - dg s300 Vs. dg pro. It could be that the swing weights fit my tempo better. Until you are in my head or buy me another set of cb’s that match the blades (pm me for address) you can’t tell me what my experiences or my expectations are. I know I carry my stock 8i about 150yds. I know I carry my stock cb 9i 150yds unless I have a gross mis-hit, I can rely on those numbers. I personally have other issues not related to distance on mishits. Even if I don’t hit dead on the button everytime, I hit close enough to the center that I get the yards I need. I am not the exception as many in this thread have played, or play blades and have similar results.

 

I could insult your intelligence or name call as others have, but that’s not me. You cannot diminish my experience playing blades. They are mine and mine alone. And if my experience helps someone experience a club that someone says they shouldn’t play because it’s less forgiving and that not even pros play anymore, but works better for them then that’s great.

 

And that’s no bs.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> > > >

> > > > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> > > >

> > > > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> > > >

> > > > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> > > >

> > >

> > > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > This thread, as I stated earlier, is completely broken. We've got guys talking about CB wedges, guys talking about SGI jacked loft 8 irons that go 180, guys talking about players cbs, guys claiming MBs are the most consistent clubs out there. It's honestly pointless. Nobody is making a sound argument. Play what you want and be done with it. I love blades. I love small CBs. I don't care what any of you have in the bag.

> > > >

> > > > In every thread of this type I back up what I say with easily found examples and lots of them. Where's yours to back up your beliefs? Why don't others show 'obvious' examples supporting their beliefs if it's supposedly not even a discussion?

> > > >

> > > > All the research I've done to see if things match up with my personal experience and the personal experience of others, the evidence points in one direction only. And every time I ask for someone to show me something/anything that would cause me to question all that I've seen and experienced, I get nothing...zero...nada.... Why?

> > > >

> > > > I have a question for you, why didn't you comment on the 'forgiveness' video I posted? I mean I have more where that came from. Did that change your beliefs? If not, why not? Care to have a discussion or are you like the other geese that contribute nothing to these discussions.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I did reply to the miss hit video comment. I play to a decent standard, have good speed, and hit the center almost every time. I've hit lots of different clubs, and I can tell you from my own testing (hitting shot after shot with different clubs on the same hole), that a small CB will 1. Retain distance better and 2. Resist the face opening on a toe strike holding its line better. I've hit what felt a near perfect strike but the drop off led me to a slightly shorter carry into water. Reloaded and hit my CB 7 with an equivalent strike and it's on the green near the pin. There's a reason many great players use CBs. I had a few fliers from average lies with the MP5 and I've had a couple with CBs but on the fairway my CB work as good as any MB for controlling distance. I'd argue better because the flight window stays consistent. Anywhere near the middle and I know I'm getting my stock distance. Blades have a place. If you're hitting the middle every time they're fantastic. No better feeling for feedback and working the ball. They are the best irons they are - I agree with that. Thing is, they just flat out aren't for the guy shooting over 80. In the 70s all the time? Why not. I can play both, I just want to score the best I possibly can.

> > >

> > > For the record, I am in complete support of combo sets as players improve. The knob jockey above saying people using any CBs in their irons should be using CB wedges obviously doesn't understand golf - miss hit a bladed 3 iron vs a 58 degree wedge and tell me which has more leeway for strike variance.

> >

> > Yeah some people really are knob jockeys aren’t they?

> >

> > I also want to score the best that I can. And my personal results have shown that over time I have played better with some blades in the bag, and certainly better than a full cb set. That, is my experience.

> >

> > I would also encourage anyone with any semblance of a swing to try them out. They may surprise you. Worst case? You know that blades are not for you.

> >

>

> If you don’t hit CBs in the middle of the face dead solid then you won’t hit MBs in the middle of the face dead solid. Contact is numero uno when selecting an iron. Play what you want as nobody cares just don’t try to make someone believe bs. That’s what the main issue is in these discussions, someone trying to make people believe they are an exception to the rule. You are not. A bad golfer can play bad with anything and nobody denies that.

 

Look, I know this thread goes around in circles and you think an MB, by definition, requires a perfect strike. But, seriously, not all MBs are created equal.

 

Here is an MP-14. The VCOG is .687, which is extremely low and helps get the ball in the air. The MPF is 457—higher than the P760. Below are my results when I hit it, with my 25 handicap swing and ability. Long story short, the iron is 37.25 inches in length and 32 degrees. Shaft is S300, which isn’t really a good fit for me on weight. But I’m getting my 6 iron ball speed, at around 6 iron club length, but with some height and with around 7 iron spin.

 

I have zero issues with the P790–it’s a nice iron and you obviously play well with it. I recently hit the 7 iron in modus 105 and got very similar numbers to the below—basically 6 iron ball speed with mid-6k spin, but at 7 iron length. The P790 has a loft of around 30 degrees, though. So, essentially, in the P790 I’ve got a shortened 6 iron that doesn’t lose distance despite being at a slightly easier to control length, and that has a nice launch window, but at a stronger loft than my current 6 iron. All of this is a nice perk to modern technology (assuming I won’t have issues with low lofts in the long irons). But at the end of the day, in my hands, the difference looks like .5 inches in length of iron, since it’s not like I’m struggling to hit my MP-14 or my MP-4s. It also gave me bad results and wide dispersion differences on toe strikes—but that’s to be expected.

 

My point has never been that CBs are bad. I’ve simply been pointing out that there are MBs out there that are very good. Which makes sense, since we’re just talking about a little bit of mass in the perimeter vs. the center—the difference doesn’t have to be stark, or even necessarily all that noticeable in real world conditions. At the end of the day, there are MBs out there that are very playable, compare favorably to player’s CBs, and don’t require a perfect strike, and there are folks out there who might benefit from taking them out to the range for a spin—regardless of their current handicap.

 

wjw481li4jsj.jpeg

 

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> @BiggErn said:

> Just because you use something above your skill level doesn’t mean practice will automatically make you better.

 

Man, that's a real bummer of an attitude.

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Titleist TSR2 21° Diamana D+ 

Titleist TSi2 24° Diamana D+

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It's not a big difference for mid-high handicappers unless with slow swing speed. The real issue is that they don't hit GIR anyway. It's often going to be a short chip shot if they're lucky. When they do improve though, the challenge will be can they consistently hit pin high shots with their blades? If they are not, then the blades are hurting them for sure. If only 2 out of your 10 shots reach pin high, you really shouldn't be playing blades. Scratch guys only hit GIR on average half the time, so if you have clubs that can help you do that, use them. I think another test is on par 3's do you hit the green? If not do you miss short or left or right? If you miss short often then blades are not for you. Evaluate your game and if you struggle to hit your intended distances (5 yards or so you are still on the green and pretty reasonable since nobody hits the sweetspot all the time, but you take your PW expecting 130 and end up 110 often, then it's time...)

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