Golf Swing Muscle Memory with old or new golf clubs...

[Bogey2Birdie]

First off I am a proponent for building muscle memory, train in a PVC Swing ring (its been on the lawn 20yrs!), generally know were my swing plane is in relation to side spin, can swing out, swing left and make adjustments during a round. Being a club maker 24yrs I have changed arrows often in the past. My worst muscle memory experience was leaving Hogan 1999 blades, for cavity irons for 5yrs, were I totally lost my feel. 5 years later I bag another set of Hogan 1999 blades and start the road to ball striking recovery. After two years of striking better, I change clubs to Yonex Ezone MB irons with same shafts...and my first thought is the sweet spot is smaller, less offset and not sure if I can game these 'at all! ' After 6 months I am striking Yonex a lot better I have honed in on the strike and the timing/tempo, hitting stellar shots...better than ever before!

Now its been 4 1/2 years with same irons!, same wedges or wedge shafts, same FW woods or wood shafts. Same putter too. The driver head is new from last years model and is straighter. My game has improved more with the same clubs than any time in my career golfing.

Its taken me a long time to get my bag were it is, 'every single club' I am in love with, trusty! I am racking up days, weeks, months, now years with the same equipment! my muscle memory is VERY good! I have 'ZERO' fear on any shot, and can easily calculate flight adjustments. I hit greens, and putt like a bandit! Now I am going through some knee troubles and can't golf much (bout once a month). Its sure nice to show up, swing well and know your bag! I start off bit stiff for 1-2 holes, then tear it up like I am a daily gamer. I know my clubs muscle memory, If I had a new bag of clubs I would have to put in hours and hours of muscle memory training at the range to get to some shiny mirage that has problems. I feel muscle memory takes more than 6 months with a club, after 2 years your getting to be pals! I feel like my golf stress has gone!... as I can take weeks or months off golf yet get straight back in the saddle and let the birds fly!

Hows your Muscle Memory / time with a club?, whats the longest a trusty club that has stayed in your bag? Does your putter or grips have thumb print wear from years?...or have you constantly changed clubs and had to re-adjust every year? I think constantly changing clubs with OEM big box store equipment that is not matched or fitted, or similar to your last set LLL/SW is a muscle memory re-training experience. How much do you value muscle memory? or your 3w? Do you still think of that one club you sold? I'm sure you can think of some tour pro's who swapped the entire bag for a new sponsor clubs. Or be like Sir Nick Faldo and carry over the same shafts through 7 (i think) sets of heads, through his winning career

I love my irons and have 2 sets of new heads to glue on my shafts, basically I will be swinging the same iron heads probably for the next 15 years! and am looking forward to advancing faster and taking the Nassau ;)

 

[iteachgolf]

Muscles don’t have memory. And with clubs even close to proper fit a good swing should have zero issue switching clubs and shooting essentially the same scores

[Bogey2Birdie]

Your correct its the brain that remembers how to move the muscles, or called muscle memory.

[hoselpalooza]

> @iteachgolf said:

> Muscles don’t have memory. And with clubs even close to proper fit a good swing should have zero issue switching clubs and shooting essentially the same scores

 

debatable. for example:

 

> **Motor neurons**

> Motor neurons of the spinal cord are part of the central nervous system (CNS) and connect to muscles, glands and organs throughout the body. These neurons transmit impulses from the spinal cord to skeletal and smooth muscles (such as those in your stomach), and so directly control all of our muscle movements. There are in fact two types of motor neurons: those that travel from spinal cord to muscle are called lower motor neurons, whereas those that travel between the brain and spinal cord are called upper motor neurons.

>

> Motor neurons have the most common type of ‘body plan’ for a nerve cell - they are multipolar, each with one axon and several dendrites.

 

source: https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain/brain-anatomy/types-neurons

[One Up Golfer]

Jack Nicklaus once commented a few years ago about the "Modern Young Tour Pros" needing to have their "Fitted" clubs and a Certain Type of Golf ball to play well in a Tournament. Jack said that when he was first starting out on Tour he had to use whatever clubs and balls were being SOLD/Promoted at the Time by his Equipment Sponsors and when he went to Different Countries to play, the clubs and balls were A LOT different than the U.S. versions. He said he might have to play a Tour Season with 10x or MORE Different sets of clubs and even more different types of Golf balls. So, I'm not sure how long it took "His" Mind/Muscles to adjust to all of those different Swing Feels, but he WON quite often while being FORCED more or less to use "Unfamiliar" clubs on a regular basis and his Living was on the line.

 

I've been an Independent Professional Golfer for over 3 Decades now. So long as I am Healthy and Rested> ([Jack Nicklaus with Ken Bowden.* Golf My Way.* New York: Simon & Schuster, 1974]

>

> "Fatigue affects a player's game in a funny way. Very often it will not show up at all in his full shots. Unless he is very, very tired he will be able to hit these just as solidly as ever. What it strikes first are the delicate shots on and around the green that require so much concentration. A tired player cannot concentrate, he completely loses his sense of "feel." Jack Quote From here: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jack-nicklaus-quotes )<

I can dial in almost any Club within 20 swings on the Practice Tee before hitting the course with them. @ 54 yo. I still play Dynamic Gold X-100's in my Wilson Staff FG-17 Forged Tour Blades as my Main Irons and same shafts in a set of Forged Hogan Apex Blades as my back up set and do just fine. :~)

 

I will say this, when I have taken out new sets to Demo in a Round on a course there is rarely a 2 to 3 stroke difference from my familiar clubs. For me, the "Key" is to get out on the Range/Practice Tee and at least hit all of the ODD Irons after getting the "Feel" of the Wedges before getting out on the course.

 

The SOUND of Impact is as important as the actual FEEL of Impact with modern Clubs. This article touches on the subject. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704608504576208583180153672

I also have done more than 95% of my own club work. Only when on the Road and something has happened to a club have I had someone else work on my Clubs. My Grandfather taught me to re-grip my own clubs when I was 9 Years Old and I have been doing my own grips ever since.

 

With your knees not as good as they use to be and only getting out once a month now, I can understand why you would want to stick to Familiar Sticks these days.

 

 

[iteachgolf]

> @hoselpalooza said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > Muscles don’t have memory. And with clubs even close to proper fit a good swing should have zero issue switching clubs and shooting essentially the same scores

>

> debatable. for example:

>

> > **Motor neurons**

> > Motor neurons of the spinal cord are part of the central nervous system (CNS) and connect to muscles, glands and organs throughout the body. These neurons transmit impulses from the spinal cord to skeletal and smooth muscles (such as those in your stomach), and so directly control all of our muscle movements. There are in fact two types of motor neurons: those that travel from spinal cord to muscle are called lower motor neurons, whereas those that travel between the brain and spinal cord are called upper motor neurons.

> >

> > Motor neurons have the most common type of ‘body plan’ for a nerve cell - they are multipolar, each with one axon and several dendrites.

>

> source: https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain/brain-anatomy/types-neurons

 

That literally just says your brain is connected to your muscles. Muscles don’t do anything without your brain controlling them. Of course your central nervous system is connected to your muscles. See what happens they no longer are connected.

 

Clubs are either a good fit and produce playable launch angles and spin rates and tilts or they aren’t. Has literally nothing to do with “muscle memory.” A good swing will produce good results with virtually any club with minor adjustment.

 

 

 

 

[Bogey2Birdie]

Thanks for your view on this topic. IMO you will have a more dialed in delivery/swing with that iron/putter/wood after 4 1/2 years Vs 4 months. I think changing equipment too often is sometimes not good. Mr Palmer said get a good set of clubs and stick with them.

[hoselpalooza]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > Muscles don’t have memory. And with clubs even close to proper fit a good swing should have zero issue switching clubs and shooting essentially the same scores

> >

> > debatable. for example:

> >

> > > **Motor neurons**

> > > Motor neurons of the spinal cord are part of the central nervous system (CNS) and connect to muscles, glands and organs throughout the body. These neurons transmit impulses from the spinal cord to skeletal and smooth muscles (such as those in your stomach), and so directly control all of our muscle movements. There are in fact two types of motor neurons: those that travel from spinal cord to muscle are called lower motor neurons, whereas those that travel between the brain and spinal cord are called upper motor neurons.

> > >

> > > Motor neurons have the most common type of ‘body plan’ for a nerve cell - they are multipolar, each with one axon and several dendrites.

> >

> > source: https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain/brain-anatomy/types-neurons

>

> That literally just says your brain is connected to your muscles. Muscles don’t do anything without your brain controlling them. Of course your central nervous system is connected to your muscles. See what happens they no longer are connected.

>

> Clubs are either a good fit and produce playable launch angles and spin rates and tilts or they aren’t. Has literally nothing to do with “muscle memory.” A good swing will produce good results with virtually any club with minor adjustment.

>

>

>

>

tl;dr -- maybe muscles have memory and maybe they don't. if you modify someone's front door to unlock in the opposite direction it might take 'em more than a few days to figure it out. i'm happy to call this muscle memory but perhaps you have a more helpful term you could share?

 

----

 

i don't want to derail this thread so i'll try to keep this short-ish and on topic. i'm also an arm-chair-scientist. anyway, according to modern science the brain doesn't control/coordinate all muscle movement. for example, neurons in the gut work autonomously (i.e. without intervention from the brain) to aid in digestion and so forth. is it possible neurons outside of the brain facilitate autonomous control of other muscles? maybe. do i think it's helpful to tell someone who mentions muscle memory that "muscles don't have memory". no. i think it's unnecessary and a bit condescending.

 

separately, i agree a good swing should produce good results with virtually any club with minor adjustment. but this is because i think a "good swing" in this context means someone who has essentially good fundamentals _and_ very good feel. e.g. someone who can easily adapt their tempo, transition move, or swing speed to suit variable equipment.

 

as an extreme example, take the iron byron robot programmed for accurate shots with super light and whippy senior-flex shafts and sneak in some heavy x-flex shafts instead. obviously, accuracy will suffer without reprogramming. i think a lot of people have developed this kind of muscle memory -- repeating the exact same swing over and over with the same clubs -- without developing the kind of feel @One Up Golfer mentioned above WRT jack.

[northgolf]

Deleted.

[iteachgolf]

Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

 

You can believe whatever you want but tempo, transition move, and clubhead speed wouldn’t have to be adjusted for a good swing. A good swing will produce good results with any clubs that are even close to the right fit. Especially if we are talking irons in a similar category.

 

I do believe it’s helpful to let people know muscles don’t have memory. Most people who use the term do so not understanding how learning happens. Real learning can actually occur when people realize they have to engage their brain to learn something. Subconscious competence is possible but doesn’t happen the way many people go about practicing

 

 

[b_f_c_99]

Thank you I teach. I’ve been saying this for years. People that could walk then suffered some sort of accident that severed the nervous system can’t walk ect. Shouldn’t their muscles remember how? They walked for years right? Yeah not so much.

[hoselpalooza]

> @iteachgolf said:

> Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

>

 


 

just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

[iteachgolf]

> @hoselpalooza said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> >

>

> 

>

> just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

 

Easy to find in multiple studies. This isn’t the one I was involved with but basically same results.

 


 

Also how shaft change didn’t change swing in transition

 


 

[hoselpalooza]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> > >

> >

> > 

> >

> > just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

>

> Easy to find in multiple studies. This isn’t the one I was involved with but basically same results.

>

> 

>

> Also how shaft change didn’t change swing in transition

>

> 

>

 

so according to study 3, "when clubs were subject to robot testing rather than player testing... an increase of ball speed was associated with performing shots with the l-flex shaft."

 

thanks for helping suss out the truth!

[hoselpalooza]

p.s. could you cite the actual source for this?

[iteachgolf]

> @hoselpalooza said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > > just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

> >

> > Easy to find in multiple studies. This isn’t the one I was involved with but basically same results.

> >

> > 

> >

> > Also how shaft change didn’t change swing in transition

> >

> > 

> >

>

> so according to study 3, "when clubs were subject to robot testing rather than player testing... an increase of ball speed was associated with performing shots with the l-flex shaft."

>

> thanks for helping suss out the truth!

 

Way to selectively read. How about the part where speed was increased to X flex speed there was zero difference? The less than 1% difference only occurred in slower players swinging the X flex shaft. Did you read where there was no difference in launch conditions or accuracy when comparing L, R, and X flex among the same players?

 

 

I was a part of a study that not only tried different flexes but also different torques and different tipping amounts and with robot testing there was essentially no difference at 110mph clubhead speeds

[iteachgolf]

> @hoselpalooza said:

> p.s. could you quote the actual source for this?

 

I did quote it. That’s what the picture is.

 

 

If you mean cite

The Effect of Differing Shaft Dynamics on the Biomechanics of the Golf Swing

Nils Florian Betzler

[oikos1]

Once a golfer realizes the pattern of activity they wish to repeat comes from the brain, they just might be on the path to better golf.

[b_f_c_99]

> @oikos1 said:

> Once a golfer realizes the pattern of activity they wish to repeat comes from the brain, they just might be on the path to better golf.

 

I would agree. I’ve been fascinated watching golfing friends beat mountains of range balls for years with no plan or intent just the vague notion that somehow doing this they will dig it out of the dirt and then muscle memory will take over. It seems that most people really don’t understand that very very few that ever pick up a club will have a natural motion that works. Golf is very counter intuitive to how our athletic brain sees the problem.

[alfriday]

> @b_f_c_99 said:

> > @oikos1 said:

> > Once a golfer realizes the pattern of activity they wish to repeat comes from the brain, they just might be on the path to better golf.

>

> I would agree. I’ve been fascinated watching golfing friends beat mountains of range balls for years with no plan or intent just the vague notion that somehow doing this they will dig it out of the dirt and then muscle memory will take over. It seems that most people really don’t understand that very very few that ever pick up a club will have a natural motion that works. Golf is very counter intuitive to how our athletic brain sees the problem.

 

I find this comment very interesting. I think the first part regarding beating mountains of balls is spot on.

 

The last two sentences are what I find most intriguing. To me it goes to the heart of what is wrong with much of golf instruction. I guess I am firmly in the Fred Shoemaker camp ("Extraordinary Golf" and "Extraordinary Putting"). His point is that each of us has a motion that is naturally optimized for our individual body. The golf coach should help the golfer discover this set up and motion--it's already there, it just needs to be applied to golf. Shoemaker demonstrates this by having his students throw clubs to a target. The before and after videos are dramatic. The reason so few golfers "that ever pick up a club will have a natural motion that works" is because most are taught a swing, few discover their swing.

 

[b_f_c_99]

> @alfriday said:

> > @b_f_c_99 said:

> > > @oikos1 said:

> > > Once a golfer realizes the pattern of activity they wish to repeat comes from the brain, they just might be on the path to better golf.

> >

> > I would agree. I’ve been fascinated watching golfing friends beat mountains of range balls for years with no plan or intent just the vague notion that somehow doing this they will dig it out of the dirt and then muscle memory will take over. It seems that most people really don’t understand that very very few that ever pick up a club will have a natural motion that works. Golf is very counter intuitive to how our athletic brain sees the problem.

>

> I find this comment very interesting. I think the first part regarding beating mountains of balls is spot on.

>

> The last two sentences are what I find most intriguing. To me it goes to the heart of what is wrong with much of golf instruction. I guess I am firmly in the Fred Shoemaker camp ("Extraordinary Golf" and "Extraordinary Putting"). His point is that each of us has a motion that is naturally optimized for our individual body. The golf coach should help the golfer discover this set up and motion--it's already there, it just needs to be applied to golf. Shoemaker demonstrates this by having his students throw clubs to a target. The before and after videos are dramatic. The reason so few golfers "that ever pick up a club will have a natural motion that works" is because most are taught a swing, few discover their swing.

>

I generally agree with you on finding your swing. I do believe the good instructors work work in this manner , there just aren’t very many of them. My personal experience with Monte Scheinblum, he explained to my that I was throwing my right shoulder out as my transition move. I probably do that because I have a desire to pull the handle at the ball. He had me change my backswing to what felt like a super laid off position. That position encouraged me to start my release sooner which kept me from pulling the handle which got my right shoulder to stay back longer. I would say that qualifies as helping me find my swing. No other changes just that one thing. It’s taken some time but I’m getting it!

[LyinEye]

Finding your swing is easy, so make it so. Best to work in wholes, not parts, as seen here.

[hoselpalooza]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

> > >

> > > Easy to find in multiple studies. This isn’t the one I was involved with but basically same results.

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > > Also how shaft change didn’t change swing in transition

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> >

> > so according to study 3, "when clubs were subject to robot testing rather than player testing... an increase of ball speed was associated with performing shots with the l-flex shaft."

> >

> > thanks for helping suss out the truth!

>

> Way to selectively read...

 

dude, weren't we talking about iron byron and not real people? this is the point i was arguing against and the material you provided seemed to contradict your point:

 

> Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

 

according to the material you provided, different flex shafts _do_ produce different results with robot testing.

 

and this makes sense. i would also expect this with real players but with variance based on feel and skill level. e.g. if you can successfully hit xx-flex, senior-flex, and everything in between i'd say you have good fundamentals and good feel. however, i'd be surprised if you're making the exact same swing and producing the same results with each of those shafts. e.g. you can make a much more violent transition move at a faster swing speed with xx-flex than you can with senior-flex. making the same move at the same speed is going to be more difficult to straighten out with super light and whippy shafts. does that mean it's impossible to hit straight shots with both shafts? no, and that's not my point. just probably not going to be the same swing/same move.

 

are we on the same page with this or is there still an argument?

 

as for the whole "muscle memory" thing perhaps it's best if we just agree to disagree. maybe one day scientists will definitively prove or disprove that autonomous fine motor/muscle control outside of the brain and gut is a thing. until then i'm content to continue using the term muscle memory and there are a lot of other people out there who feel the same way.

[Soloman1]

Half of Americans don't even change their underwear every day, and you want us to agree with their use of phrase "muscle memory?"

[iteachgolf]

> @hoselpalooza said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > > > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > > > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

> > > >

> > > > Easy to find in multiple studies. This isn’t the one I was involved with but basically same results.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Also how shaft change didn’t change swing in transition

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > >

> > > so according to study 3, "when clubs were subject to robot testing rather than player testing... an increase of ball speed was associated with performing shots with the l-flex shaft."

> > >

> > > thanks for helping suss out the truth!

> >

> > Way to selectively read...

>

> dude, weren't we talking about iron byron and not real people? this is the point i was arguing against and the material you provided seemed to contradict your point:

>

> > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

>

> according to the material you provided, different flex shafts _do_ produce different results with robot testing.

>

> and this makes sense. i would also expect this with real players but with variance based on feel and skill level. e.g. if you can successfully hit xx-flex, senior-flex, and everything in between i'd say you have good fundamentals and good feel. however, i'd be surprised if you're making the exact same swing and producing the same results with each of those shafts. e.g. you can make a much more violent transition move at a faster swing speed with xx-flex than you can with senior-flex. making the same move at the same speed is going to be more difficult to straighten out with super light and whippy shafts. does that mean it's impossible to hit straight shots with both shafts? no, and that's not my point. just probably not going to be the same swing/same move.

>

> are we on the same page with this or is there still an argument?

>

> as for the whole "muscle memory" thing perhaps it's best if we just agree to disagree. maybe one day scientists will definitively prove or disprove that autonomous fine motor/muscle control outside of the brain and gut is a thing. until then i'm content to continue using the term muscle memory and there are a lot of other people out there who feel the same way.

 

And you just proved you can’t read. Go read it again and this time read the whole paragraph. You know don’t selectively read. When clubhead speed was increased on iron Byron it showed no difference. It only showed a difference between X flex and l flex when the clubhead speed was too slow for X flex. I wasn’t talking about the human testing.

 

Again I witnessed a study that tested far more variables and at 110mph there wasn’t a difference based on shaft. Same exact outcome the study I posted found

 

 

 

If you wanna talk about human testing how about the part you skipped. In study 1 there was no difference in ball data and there was no difference in there swing when measured based on different shafts. It literally says there was no difference in accuracy and there was no difference in their swings when measured.

[glk]

While you are waiting for science to discover a muscle that thinks and remembers golfers would be better served by the lessons here

And I want one of these clubs and look out iron Byron

[hoselpalooza]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > > > @hoselpalooza said:

> > > > > > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > > > > > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > just kidding. but is this something you can substantiate with publicly available data or would we just have to take your word for it?

> > > > >

> > > > > Easy to find in multiple studies. This isn’t the one I was involved with but basically same results.

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Also how shaft change didn’t change swing in transition

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > so according to study 3, "when clubs were subject to robot testing rather than player testing... an increase of ball speed was associated with performing shots with the l-flex shaft."

> > > >

> > > > thanks for helping suss out the truth!

> > >

> > > Way to selectively read...

> >

> > dude, weren't we talking about iron byron and not real people? this is the point i was arguing against and the material you provided seemed to contradict your point:

> >

> > > Iron Byron wouldn’t produce different results with different flex shafts. I’ve watched it be tested at different extremes.

> >

> > according to the material you provided, different flex shafts _do_ produce different results with robot testing.

> >

> > and this makes sense. i would also expect this with real players but with variance based on feel and skill level. e.g. if you can successfully hit xx-flex, senior-flex, and everything in between i'd say you have good fundamentals and good feel. however, i'd be surprised if you're making the exact same swing and producing the same results with each of those shafts. e.g. you can make a much more violent transition move at a faster swing speed with xx-flex than you can with senior-flex. making the same move at the same speed is going to be more difficult to straighten out with super light and whippy shafts. does that mean it's impossible to hit straight shots with both shafts? no, and that's not my point. just probably not going to be the same swing/same move.

> >

> > are we on the same page with this or is there still an argument?

> >

> > as for the whole "muscle memory" thing perhaps it's best if we just agree to disagree. maybe one day scientists will definitively prove or disprove that autonomous fine motor/muscle control outside of the brain and gut is a thing. until then i'm content to continue using the term muscle memory and there are a lot of other people out there who feel the same way.

>

> And you just proved you can’t read. Go read it again and this time read the whole paragraph. You know don’t selectively read. When clubhead speed was increased on iron Byron it showed no difference. It only showed a difference between X flex and l flex when the clubhead speed was too slow for X flex. I wasn’t talking about the human testing.

>

> Again I witnessed a study that tested far more variables and at 110mph there wasn’t a difference based on shaft. Same exact outcome the study I posted found

>

>

>

> If you wanna talk about human testing how about the part you skipped. In study 1 there was no difference in ball data and there was no difference in there swing when measured based on different shafts. It literally says there was no difference in accuracy and there was no difference in their swings when measured.

 

dude, there's no need to be a jerk. all we needed to do to prove my hypothesis was demonstrate that robot testing produces different results with different shafts. it doesn't matter that there weren't differences in this one particular study at 110mph because the argument was never "robots are the same at 110mph".

 

further, what would results be at 120mph or 130mph with x- or xx-flex versus senior-flex or l-flex? is there a swing speed which is too fast for senior-flex or l-flex? i would think the answer is yes. and what about transition move or tempo? is there a transition move or tempo that is too violent or fast, respectively, to be able to consistently hit accurate shots with senior- or l-flex shafts or lighter shafts, etcetera? i think we know the answer to this.

 

it's not clear what you're trying to argue or if you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. **so in case you missed it, here's my point: different swings/speeds/tempos/etcetera will probably produce different results with different shafts/equipment**.

 

humorous case in point below. take a chill pill and enjoy:

 

[LyinEye]

Let's give the Volvik boys some cheap Aldila ladies sponge torgue graphite shafts for their longest poke. Saving money is always good.