Jump to content

Thoughts on short 9 hole courses / beginner courses - what's a good score?


Recommended Posts

Hi - I was looking for thoughts about short courses / beginner courses.

 

Say for example a par 33 course that plays 2100 with no par 5s - playing it twice par 66 4200. But no super short holes, all over 80 yards none longer than 350 yards - small greens that are well protected by elevation changes, bunkers or trees depending on the hole - some water hazards in play.

 

I just wondered what a scratch golfer would expect to shoot on a course like that?

 

I play a short course that is 2100 9 holes for practice sometimes and an 18 hole course that plays 6400. But I wondered really how to compare the courses and my scores on them. Both were designed by a very well known course designer with a good reputation.

 

Thanks

 

HP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many factors. Alot of the time distance doesn't change your basic score much. Until you are hitting driver/long iron into par 4s. A solid short game will determine much of your score assuming drives are in bounds. For practice on the short course you could use a club that's 100 yards shorter off the tee box than your driver to "add distance" each hole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the course rated? If so the first numbers are what a scratch should shoot on average.

 

If you have a handicap plug it in here with the slope from each course and it will give you your course handicap. https://www.usga.org/course-handicap-calculator.html

 

If you don't have one download a free handicap app to your phone and start plugging in your scores from both courses and you can figure it out after you have at least 5 18 hole scores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Use statistics other than the raw 9 or 18 hole score. Track proximity to the hole for approaches. Track club used for approaches. Fairways hit and club used off the tee. To echo the second post, unless you're lights-out with wedges and putting, the shorter distance isn't going to change a lot, maybe a stroke or two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Course rating on a Par 33 / 2100 yard 9 hole course is going to be really low. Figure that most of your Par 4's are going to be ~300 yards long. A scratch golfer (by definition) hits his tee shot 250 yards on average, so you've got an average approach shot of 50 yards. Basically pitch and putt; it wouldn't surprise me if the rating was sub 30.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @raynorfan1 said:

> Course rating on a Par 33 / 2100 yard 9 hole course is going to be really low. Figure that most of your Par 4's are going to be ~300 yards long. A scratch golfer (by definition) hits his tee shot 250 yards on average, so you've got an average approach shot of 50 yards. Basically pitch and putt; it wouldn't surprise me if the rating was sub 30.

 

It's 30. It's a tight and protected course. Most days it's very windy, I think that makes the rating slightly off. I think that's why I'm rating it harder in my head, normal course conditions are 15-20 mph winds. The course is on elevated sloped land that dips from one side of the course to the other dramatically both north to south and east to west. It's on a slant. Interesting course for such a low yardage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 would be a good score for a beginner. It would show that you can get the ball airborne and in play with irons and some semblance of a short game.

SIM 2 Max 9.0 turned 7.0
TM Sim2 Titaniu, 13.5
TM RBZ 19* hybrid

TM RBZ 22* hybrid
Mizuno JPX 900 HM 5-PW
Vokey SM7 48* F Grind
Vokey SM7 54* F Grind
Vokey SM7 58* M Grind

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @HonestPlayer said:

> > @raynorfan1 said:

> > Course rating on a Par 33 / 2100 yard 9 hole course is going to be really low. Figure that most of your Par 4's are going to be ~300 yards long. A scratch golfer (by definition) hits his tee shot 250 yards on average, so you've got an average approach shot of 50 yards. Basically pitch and putt; it wouldn't surprise me if the rating was sub 30.

>

> It's 30. It's a tight and protected course. Most days it's very windy, I think that makes the rating slightly off. I think that's why I'm rating it harder in my head, normal course conditions are 15-20 mph winds. The course is on elevated sloped land that dips from one side of the course to the other dramatically both north to south and east to west. It's on a slant. Interesting course for such a low yardage.

 

Sure, but shortness mitigates a lot of that. Figure a scratch golfer could get around the Par 4's hitting 5 iron / pitching wedge. The course would have to be pretty tricked up for that to be challenging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not scratch but 2-3. Instead of range practice, once to twice a month play a couple of challenging 3500-4500 yard Executive courses, using irons ONLY. Typically shoot 1 under to 2 over par. Par 3 holes range from 100 yards to 190 yards and Par 4's are 310-350 yards. IMO these type courses are excellent for iron and wedge practice.

  • Like 1
  • TSR2 10° Ventus Velo TR Blue 58S
  • TSR2 15° Talamonti PD80R
  • T200 17' 2i Tensei AV Raw White Hybrid 95S
  • T100 3i & 4i MMT 85S
  • T100 5i to 9i MMT 105S
  • T100 PW, SM9 F52/12, M58/8, PX Wedge 120S
  • SC/CA Monterey
  • DASH -ProV1x
Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @raynorfan1 said:

> > @HonestPlayer said:

> > > @raynorfan1 said:

> > > Course rating on a Par 33 / 2100 yard 9 hole course is going to be really low. Figure that most of your Par 4's are going to be ~300 yards long. A scratch golfer (by definition) hits his tee shot 250 yards on average, so you've got an average approach shot of 50 yards. Basically pitch and putt; it wouldn't surprise me if the rating was sub 30.

> >

> > It's 30. It's a tight and protected course. Most days it's very windy, I think that makes the rating slightly off. I think that's why I'm rating it harder in my head, normal course conditions are 15-20 mph winds. The course is on elevated sloped land that dips from one side of the course to the other dramatically both north to south and east to west. It's on a slant. Interesting course for such a low yardage.

>

> Sure, but shortness mitigates a lot of that. Figure a scratch golfer could get around the Par 4's hitting 5 iron / pitching wedge. The course would have to be pretty tricked up for that to be challenging.

 

Challenge and a course rating/slope being skewed a bit too easy are different things. I played a course the other day that's 5480 yards, par 68, rating 64.6, and slope 99. I have to shoot 68 to shoot my handicap. That's not all that easy. Compare that to the Black at Bethpage...I can shoot 83 and shoot my handicap. I've played the Black about 30 times, I'll say it's far easier for me to shoot 83 at the Black than 68 at the other place. So, hitting 5 iron-Wedge isn't "hard" but it's not exactly a guaranteed birdie either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @morganmonroe said:

> Short course is a great way to start.

>

> The first golf hole I ever played was 35 years ago at a pitch-n-putt par 3 course. Hit a half swing 5 iron from 130 to the fringe. Chipped to 2' and made par. I thought, "What's so hard about this?"

> Little did I know. . .

 

True. The evaporation of short, small, "executive" courses is one of the things that IMO is at the core of the game eroding. These little courses used to be the perfect place to learn the game or for duffers to go out and knock the ball around.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theres an executive course not far from my house that I like playing because its quick and cheap. Its a par 30 and is 1789 yards long from the white tees.

I like it because it has lots of medium length par 3s (150ish yards) but has a coupe short par 4s (300-330 yards). Its a fun course, not overly challenging but it does demand precise approach shots and some measure of control with the driver or 3-wood. What I really like is that if you arent being held up by slow players, you can play it in less than 90 minutes and the greens fees are only $13. Its often a welcome change of pace from the $60ish greens fees I normally play and the 4+ hour rounds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @morganmonroe said:

> Short course is a great way to start.

>

> The first golf hole I ever played was 35 years ago at a pitch-n-putt par 3 course. Hit a half swing 5 iron from 130 to the fringe. Chipped to 2' and made par. I thought, "What's so hard about this?"

> Little did I know. . .

 

A short course is a great way to keep sharp for experienced players too! Until 2-3 years ago, we had a short course a couple of miles from our house. My wife learned to play on this course. There were 3 holes between 200-250 yards, and the other 6 were < 115. With *really small greens*. I'm talking about 10 yards in diameter (most were a circle). I had to be really accurate with my wedges, and it paid off on the full course. Any time I'd get to a course with a 80-100 yard shot, I could "see" the small green around the hole, and my focus got really tight on those shots.

 

Plus it was only 7 bucks to play, much more fun than the driving range!

 

Unfortunately they bulldozed that course and it's full size cousin for housing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Not scratch but 2-3. Instead of range practice, once to twice a month play a couple of challenging 3500-4500 yard Executive courses, using irons ONLY. Typically shoot 1 under to 2 over par. Par 3 holes range from 100 yards to 190 yards and Par 4's are 310-350 yards. **IMO these type courses are excellent for iron and wedge practice.**

 

I play a 1650 yarder, 9 hole course with 29/72 rating daily and typically shoot your posted scores. Agree and keeps my game sharp!


Location:  Colorado Springs, CO
Handicap:  3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A short course is a really good way to get out and play the game for a newer person to golf. It lets them hit more clubs in the bag while not having to feel intimidated by the length of some of the longer holes on a more traditional 18 hole layout. It's also a place that teaches you how to score as a better player. You can make the course as long or as short as you need or want to work on things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @raynorfan1 said:

> > @HonestPlayer said:

> > > @raynorfan1 said:

> > > Course rating on a Par 33 / 2100 yard 9 hole course is going to be really low. Figure that most of your Par 4's are going to be ~300 yards long. A scratch golfer (by definition) hits his tee shot 250 yards on average, so you've got an average approach shot of 50 yards. Basically pitch and putt; it wouldn't surprise me if the rating was sub 30.

> >

> > It's 30. It's a tight and protected course. Most days it's very windy, I think that makes the rating slightly off. I think that's why I'm rating it harder in my head, normal course conditions are 15-20 mph winds. The course is on elevated sloped land that dips from one side of the course to the other dramatically both north to south and east to west. It's on a slant. Interesting course for such a low yardage.

>

> Sure, but shortness mitigates a lot of that. Figure a scratch golfer could get around the Par 4's hitting 5 iron / pitching wedge. The course would have to be pretty tricked up for that to be challenging.

 

Exactly. I would also contend that the scratch definition is a little outdated. 250 would be a mediocre to poor drive for almost every scratch I've played with. And, like you said, that course would have to be super tricked out to present any challenge where the average par 4 is 300. It may still present some challenges to higher handicaps or those who struggle with course management. But from a scratch perspective, I'm licking my chops every time I see a hole that short regardless of the conditions or layout.

Taylormade Stealth Plus (9) - Tensei 1K Pro Orange 60

Taylormade Stealth Plus (15) - Tensei 1K Pro Orange 70

Taylormade Stealth Plus (19) - Tensei 1K Pro Orange 80

Srixon Z945 3-PW - DG Tour X100

Taylormade MG3 54.11 - DG Tour S400

Taylormade MG3 60.08 - DG Tour S400

Scotty Cameron Studio Style NP2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a 17 cap, and I play a par 3 Executive Course frequently during the week. Easier to get on, and I can usually walk and play 9 holes in under an hour. It's a par 29 with 2 par 4's, one of which is drivable (if you cut the corner over the trees) with a 3 wood. I think it is great practice for working on ballstriking, no fat or thin shots, and working on short game. One of the reasons that chipping around the green is probably my strongest area is due to this practice. I typically shoot 34-35 on this course...as with ANY golf course, sometimes worse, sometimes better. Best was a 30. I don't think of these courses as competitive golf, but rather practice. If you approach it with that mentality and focus more on shot making and ballstriking, you can get a LOT out of these short courses in a short amount of time. YMMV.

Titleist TSi3 driver AV Raw White 65g 

Titleist TSi3 3W AV Raw White 65g

Titleist TSi3 3H  AV Raw HY 75g

PXG Gen 5, 0311T 6-AW, 0311P 4-5

Taylormade MG4 54*

Taylormade MG4 58*

Argolf Putter

Vice Pro-Soft balls

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a short course of par 65 fairly close to me and they do a pretty nice job of keeping the greens in great shape. I would have played there more often but full length courses in the same general area could be played for 5% to 15% more for the same time/day. Unless I was with someone very new to the game or that had monetary restrictions I never eneded up there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@morganmonroe said:

> Short course is a great way to start.

>

> The first golf hole I ever played was 35 years ago at a pitch-n-putt par 3 course. Hit a half swing 5 iron from 130 to the fringe. Chipped to 2' and made par. I thought, "What's so hard about this?"

> Little did I know. . .

 

I’m more intermediate my cap is about 12 currently my ever best round on a 6000+ course is 74. I’m just not co dependant and enjoy golf, so I go out sometimes alone to practice and improve on short courses. Found short courses to be really fun - more pars and birdies even if the slope/rating is different, quieter, faster to play. I think they are great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @physasst said:

> I'm a 17 cap, and I play a par 3 Executive Course frequently during the week. Easier to get on, and I can usually walk and play 9 holes in under an hour. It's a par 29 with 2 par 4's, one of which is drivable (if you cut the corner over the trees) with a 3 wood. I think it is great practice for working on ballstriking, no fat or thin shots, and working on short game. One of the reasons that chipping around the green is probably my strongest area is due to this practice. I typically shoot 34-35 on this course...as with ANY golf course, sometimes worse, sometimes better. Best was a 30. I don't think of these courses as competitive golf, but rather practice. If you approach it with that mentality and focus more on shot making and ballstriking, you can get a LOT out of these short courses in a short amount of time. YMMV.

 

Absolutely, and when it is really slow you can play two or three balls on your approach shots. It may be a short course but the short game is where golfers lose so many strokes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

×
×
  • Create New...