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What is the purpose of three piece Surlyn covered balls?


LumpyPockets

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Ball companies have been able to soften surlyn so it spins more without the third layer, five years from now we may be remembering the great old urethane balls.

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I've always wondered why the 3-piece surlyn was made. Seemed particular odd with Callaway; the SuperSoft was 2-piece and then the SuperHot (normal and Costco) was 3-piece.

 

To me, the compression/softness always seemed like the biggest difference among these type of balls. It does seem like there is some difference in say the SuperSoft, SoftFeel, and Trusoft vs the cheapest surlyn balls with spin. However, I don't know if I am mistaking the feel/sound for how it's actually spinning.

 

That being said, I think the Titleist Velocity spins less than the Trusoft around the greens and they both seem to have a nicer feeling cover so I guess there are various factors here.

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I play a dead hands toe down basic putting motion chip shot. Just practiced on my carpet with a k3, Wilson Staff FG Tour, Pinnacle Rush, and Wilson Staff Duo Spin. My miss hit with this type of chip is typically short and it's very clear the surlyn balls are going further on my mishit than the urethane balls, which means a shorter putt as my short game miss in inevitably short. I think I'm going to go with some surlyn's for a bit and see how that works out.


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> @LumpyPockets said:

> If the cover is low spin why bother with a mantle layer? There seems to be quite a few three piece ionomer covered balls out there and I'm dying to know why.

 

If soft Surlyn is used for a 2 piece ball, it can have less ball speed. Adding a hard mantle layer can help to gain some ball speed.

If hard Surlyn is used for a 2 piece ball, it can have hard feel. Also, when core is too soft and cover is too hard, durability may be an issue. Adding a soft mantle can help with better feel and durability. Also spin performance will be much better than 2 piece Surlyn ball, especially in short game.

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> @"North Butte" said:

> Well e6 (the original one and presumably the "soft" or "distance" ones now) doesn't spin a lick with any club. So if you want no spin and are too proud to play Pinnacles maybe it's a good choice.

>

>

>

> As far as I can tell, Bridgestone's marketing is based on this thinking...

>

>

>

> We're not going to get very far telling hackers, "You don't want a ProV1, you want a B330 that's just like a ProV1 except better".

>

>

>

> So let's try something more like, "Hey, you can't hit that ProV1, you're not good enough. Try our e6 that's a totally different kind of ball no ProV1 player would be caught dead with".

>

>

>

> Ever hear of the old pick-up artist term "negging"? That's the essence of Bridgestone's golf ball marketing.

 

You’ve said this for years, but the fact is that the old 3 piece E6 tested at the high end of the range for wedge spin amongst surlyn balls. The new 2 piece versions do not test well for wedge spin.

 

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I played about 50 rounds with the original e6. It did not spin a lick. Remarkably low on approach shots with mid-irons or even wedges. That's all I know. Can't speak to where that magazine came up with their own conclusions.

 

P.S. And at the time, Bridgestone *advertised* that it had less spin in order to fly straighter.

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granted urethane covers generate spin off the club face but isn’t there a factor too of the cover material and how it interacts with the green as well in terms of “bite” and check up ?

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> @erock9174 said:

> granted urethane covers generate spin off the club face but isn’t there a factor too of the cover material and how it interacts with the green as well in terms of “bite” and check up ?

 

I wouldn't think so. The green isn't going to be able to generate enough friction to deform either a urethane or surlyn cover.

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I think friend erock is thinking of some of those really gritty finished matte Surlyn balls vs. the usual kind with the really smooth and shiny clearcoat of paint. Not sure it actually does make a difference but when you feel them it seems like there has to be some effect of that rough texture when checking up or rolling.

 

 

I tried some of the Volvik rough-matte-finish ones (I think it was Volvik) a couple years ago and could have sworn it was grabbing a little more on very short bump-and-run shots through the fringes.

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> @Tanner25 said:

> Besides Wilson Duo Soft Spin, what are other similar balls in this 3 piece surlyn softer category? I know Volvik is. But, do not care for matte or very firm balls.

 

The Callaway ERC Soft is a 3 piece surlyn ball. The TaylorMade Project S is two piece, but has a dual density core that makes it effectively 3 piece. The e6 was at one time a 3 piece.

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> @chippa13 said:

> No chance the E6 was that high. I still have some '13s and they are my go to soft ball when my game is heading really south for the day.

 

Just went and looked up some old compression "test" charts. The original e6 in 2006 was 76 on a "ATTI" tester. The e6 plus one year later was 73 on the same "ATTI".

 

So my memory was wrong, it was mid-70's and not mid-80's.

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> @arbeck said:

> > @Tanner25 said:

> > Besides Wilson Duo Soft Spin, what are other similar balls in this 3 piece surlyn softer category? I know Volvik is. But, do not care for matte or very firm balls.

>

> The Callaway ERC Soft is a 3 piece surlyn ball. The TaylorMade Project S is two piece, but has a dual density core that makes it effectively 3 piece. The e6 was at one time a 3 piece.

 

I guess Callaway ERC Soft would be a good one if you can get past the higher cost, a good suggestion thx. What is the compression, 60?

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> @"North Butte" said:

> > @chippa13 said:

> > No chance the E6 was that high. I still have some '13s and they are my go to soft ball when my game is heading really south for the day.

>

> Just went and looked up some old compression "test" charts. The original e6 in 2006 was 76 on a "ATTI" tester. The e6 plus one year later was 73 on the same "ATTI".

>

> So my memory was wrong, it was mid-70's and not mid-80's.

 

 

That mid 70s puts it fairly close to the Wilson 50 Elite, which was tested with ATTI device at 72 by GolfBallSpec.

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If I am going to play a surlyn covered golf ball, I will usually play the Top Flite Bomb . It is long and straight and enjoy a harder golf ball for clubface feedback. As far as the E6 balls, and also the E12 type balls, I don't really care for them too much. In my opinion you pay for the name and not the performance. In other words they are no better to me than a Top Flite bomb for my game. I am a 14 handicap and usually play a urethane covered ball like Bridgestone bx, Srixon zstar, Titleist ProVs, etc., for the best chance for green side action. Also, all this hype about softer balls traveling farther for golfers to me isn't valid, it's more for feel off the clubface.

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> @arbeck said:

> > @Tanner25 said:

> > Besides Wilson Duo Soft Spin, what are other similar balls in this 3 piece surlyn softer category? I know Volvik is. But, do not care for matte or very firm balls.

>

> The Callaway ERC Soft is a 3 piece surlyn ball. The TaylorMade Project S is two piece, but has a dual density core that makes it effectively 3 piece. The e6 was at one time a 3 piece.

 

TM Project S is a straight forward 3-piece (single core, single mantle, ionomer cover). The “dual-distance” core marketing is confusing in that they refer to the mantle as a core however it is really just a conventional ionomer mantle. This is essentially the next ball in the lineage of the Maxfli Tour Fire>TM Burner TP>Rocketballz>Aeroburner Pro.

 

The ERC Soft is a true dual core 3-piece (no mantle) similar to the legacy Titleist NXT Tour. These have more in common with a 2-piece ball than a multilayer ball with mantle layers.

 

@Tanner25 here are your options from the big OEMs current lines:

 

Bridgestone e12 Soft

TM Project S

Wilson Duo Soft Spin

 

IMHO, you may as well be looking at urethane balls when venturing into this price range.

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> @storm319 said:

> > @arbeck said:

> > > @Tanner25 said:

> > > Besides Wilson Duo Soft Spin, what are other similar balls in this 3 piece surlyn softer category? I know Volvik is. But, do not care for matte or very firm balls.

> >

> > The Callaway ERC Soft is a 3 piece surlyn ball. The TaylorMade Project S is two piece, but has a dual density core that makes it effectively 3 piece. The e6 was at one time a 3 piece.

>

> TM Project S is a straight forward 3-piece (single core, single mantle, ionomer cover). The “dual-distance” core marketing is confusing in that they refer to the mantle as a core however it is really just a conventional ionomer mantle. This is essentially the next ball in the lineage of the Maxfli Tour Fire>TM Burner TP>Rocketballz>Aeroburner Pro.

>

> The ERC Soft is a true dual core 3-piece (no mantle) similar to the legacy Titleist NXT Tour. These have more in common with a 2-piece ball than a multilayer ball with mantle layers.

>

> @Tanner25 here are your options from the big OEMs current lines:

>

> Bridgestone e12 Soft

> TM Project S

> Wilson Duo Soft Spin

>

> IMHO, you may as well be looking at urethane balls when venturing into this price range.

 

Thx Storm319. Agreed for a few more dollars, you are in the TMa, QST range.

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  • 2 weeks later...

> @"North Butte" said:

> I played about 50 rounds with the original e6. It did not spin a lick. Remarkably low on approach shots with mid-irons or even wedges. That's all I know. Can't speak to where that magazine came up with their own conclusions.

>

> P.S. And at the time, Bridgestone *advertised* that it had less spin in order to fly straighter.

 

Yep, that was my experience as well, moreover it never stopped around the greens, every shot was like a bump and (very long) run. I also tried the B330RX with mixed results. After a while I switched to the Srixon Tri-Speed Tour and currently using Chrome Soft and Optima CS.

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E6 was nearly the worst ball I have ever played >

 

@"j.a." said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > I played about 50 rounds with the original e6. It did not spin a lick. Remarkably low on approach shots with mid-irons or even wedges. That's all I know. Can't speak to where that magazine came up with their own conclusions.

> >

> > P.S. And at the time, Bridgestone *advertised* that it had less spin in order to fly straighter.

>

> Yep, that was my experience as well, moreover it never stopped around the greens, every shot was like a bump and (very long) run. I also tried the B330RX with mixed results. After a while I switched to the Srixon Tri-Speed Tour and currently using Chrome Soft and Optima CS.

 

 

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