2020 Iron Battle ! - T200 vs. MMC MP20 vs New 790 vs. PXG 0311P

[gmacgolfer78]

Hello All,

I've played AP2 most of my golfing life. Last 10 years or so.

I went for a T100 fitting and they were VERY small and harder to hit compared to my 718s I found.

Tried the T200 and loved them. Way better than AP3. Not too big, strong flight, decent feel, ....

Also I'm considering the New 790s and MMC and PXG

Has anyone compared these irons??

Looking to move into a slightly more forgiving iron as my practice time has been reduced to absolute 0

 

 

[gmacgolfer78]

may even consider i210 from Ping as well!

 

[Lumberjack627]

Just tried the 790’s. I have AP3s now and if you have been playing Ap2 irons for 10 years your not going to like the 790 feel is great but top line is very chunky.

[jjl]

I own the P790, previously owned the MMC's, and have demo'd the AP3 a good amount. Never hit any PXG club. If forgiveness is a major criteria for you I would rule out the MMC, the P790, AP3 and even the I210 are more forgiving than the MMC in my opinion. I think people want the MMC to be more forgiving than they are because they're so pretty, but it's just not the case. I think the P790 will be the most forgiving of the bunch.

[tmax77]

I have hit all the above mentioned clubs and personally I would wait for a couple weeks till you can hit the the new mmc mp-20 (the one you discussed in your opening) before making any judgments on the forgiveness..I would also highly recommend the mp-20 hmb because it really good alternative as well (feels tremendous compared to some above) and is a touch smaller heel to toe than the mmc...I would say ap3/t200 might be IMO the most forgiving of the bunch...

[tigerfan23]

I hit the T200 they were sweet for sure.

0311 are amazing but $$$

790 I dunno not a huge fan but will try new models

MMC MP20 will replace my MP53s eventually

 

[gmacgolfer78]

anything else I should try??

 

[agood3putt]

Demo'd and got fit for the new P790's and they are the real deal. Better than the Apex line imo in terms of looks and accuracy. Forgiveness with the 790 IMO has a slight edge over the Apex and the top line is much slimmer. Feel is a wash between the two

[gdb99]

I ordered my T200's today.

Haven't had a brand new set of irons in 7 years.

[birdiestobogeys]

I also have played ap2s last 10 years and just bought a set of srixon z785s. I feel like they are ever so slightly less forgiving than ap2s but the good shots feel much better. I liked the new titleist t100 and t200s, but the $500 difference once ordered with the shaft I need tipped the scale in favor of srixon. I didn’t hit the 585 as much but if you're looking for more forgiveness they would be a good option at a nice price point.

[drscott266]

Curious about this too, seems like most people agree that P790 are forgiving. Is it splitting hairs comparing their forgiveness to T200? I don't have much trouble hitting the ball straight most days, its just contact all over the face that makes my distance control hard. Been playing AP2 but just not sure why anymore, it used to be for looks but I am starting to realize I never try to work the ball other than 3/4 knockdowns. I tried to avoid the distrance iron category but am coming around, especially since its getting easier to find good looking players distance irons.

[Orlandogolfguru]

if you like the t200, which is a great middle ground club, the 0311p is right there with a bit softer feel. same overall performance and look really. aside from mmc, you may want to add jpx 919 forged. same loft and size characteristics with the above, and great forgiveness.

[thigos]

> @tmax77 said:

>I would also highly recommend the mp-20 hmb because it really good alternative as well (feels tremendous compared to some above) and is a touch smaller heel to toe than the mmc...

 

I thought the HMB will be a longer blade than the mmc

[pricenicky]

I hit the new p790 and t200.I had 2 sets of 0311 p's. The 790 and t2oo had the same feel ( surprising ) and the numbers were almost identical other than dispersion where the t200 was better.I like the t200 better because of top line being thinner .I will be ordering these.Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

[Stanks]

They all do the same thing

[herbert7890]

> @pricenicky said:

>Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

 

I'm confused with this statement. like there is diff variations of the T-200 iron heads? or diff versions of the AMT Black shaft?

 

I pre-ordered the T-200s with the default AMT Black (stiff), so im curious if I need to change anything.

 

[drscott266]

I just got fitted for new irons in this category, and was shocked how good the T200 were. I came in thinking, almost expecting to get P790's and honestly probably could have. I got the same numbers but better dispersion with T200, likely because I was coming from AP2 with the same shaft. I hit the ball a club further with T200 and they felt really damn good, couldnt tell they weren;t forged (completely). They are super thin looking, and I didn't expect to see the ball jump the way it did off the face. The P790 were great looking too, but in comparison look more akin to the AP1/T300 head but slightly better. I thought the P790 felt great when nutted, but pretty harsh when mis hit. My numbers were almost identical with the two heads TM had the DG105 so slight difference in shaft which probably helped me it Titleist a bit better. I also tried the Apex 19 and Apex Pro, the shaft didnt work for me in either, didnt care for Apex head at all. Apex Pro was soft as can be, but felt too close to AP2... also the shaft wasnt working and we didnt have much options. Hit the Epic Forged, and wow! Super soft, super long. Would have gained two clubs length, but just couldn't justify the $300 per club and what my setup would look like. T200's from 4-GW would fit my wedges perfectly, and I will drop my 60* since i rarely hit. Hope this helps anyone looking

[herbert7890]

> @drscott266 said:

> I just got fitted for new irons in this category, and was shocked how good the T200 were. I came in thinking, almost expecting to get P790's and honestly probably could have. I got the same numbers but better dispersion with T200, likely because I was coming from AP2 with the same shaft. I hit the ball a club further with T200 and they felt really **** good, couldnt tell they weren;t forged (completely). They are super thin looking, and I didn't expect to see the ball jump the way it did off the face. The P790 were great looking too, but in comparison look more akin to the AP1/T300 head but slightly better. I thought the P790 felt great when nutted, but pretty harsh when mis hit. My numbers were almost identical with the two heads TM had the DG105 so slight difference in shaft which probably helped me it Titleist a bit better. I also tried the Apex 19 and Apex Pro, the shaft didnt work for me in either, didnt care for Apex head at all. Apex Pro was soft as can be, but felt too close to AP2... also the shaft wasnt working and we didnt have much options. Hit the Epic Forged, and wow! Super soft, super long. Would have gained two clubs length, but just couldn't justify the $300 per club and what my setup would look like. T200's from 4-GW would fit my wedges perfectly, and I will drop my 60* since i rarely hit. Hope this helps anyone looking

 

oh man!!! I can't wait for my T-200s to come! I called Edwin Watts today and they said to call again Friday but not 100% sure they will have them. Kinda mad at them for this service, I pre-ordered to have them on the first day (paying more than $1500 with tax)

[pricenicky]

I was told they have 2 different weights of t200 heads and that with the AMT SHAFTS they use some of both to offset the heavier weights of the shorter shafts to ensure the SW re the same throughout.I told CS I am concerned about this process because if I CHANGED to a specific weight of shaft later ; then the SW's would be altered. I have never heard of such a process before.> @herbert7890 said:

> > @pricenicky said:

> >Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

>

> I'm confused with this statement. like there is diff variations of the T-200 iron heads? or diff versions of the AMT Black shaft?

>

> I pre-ordered the T-200s with the default AMT Black (stiff), so im curious if I need to change anything.

>

 

[gdb99]

> @pricenicky said:

> I was told they have 2 different weights of t200 heads and that with the AMT SHAFTS they use some of both to offset the heavier weights of the shorter shafts to ensure the SW re the same throughout.I told CS I am concerned about this process because if I CHANGED to a specific weight of shaft later ; then the SW's would be altered. I have never heard of such a process before.> @herbert7890 said:

> > > @pricenicky said:

> > >Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

> >

> > I'm confused with this statement. like there is diff variations of the T-200 iron heads? or diff versions of the AMT Black shaft?

> >

> > I pre-ordered the T-200s with the default AMT Black (stiff), so im curious if I need to change anything.

> >

>

 

This doesn't sound right to me. Titleist has always used tip weights for swing-weighting, the shafts get progressively lighter as the shaft gets longer.

If anything, Titleist may do as Mizuno, 2 set weights of heads. One for standard length builds, one for over-length builds.

[drscott266]

> @pricenicky said:

> I was told they have 2 different weights of t200 heads and that with the AMT SHAFTS they use some of both to offset the heavier weights of the shorter shafts to ensure the SW re the same throughout.I told CS I am concerned about this process because if I CHANGED to a specific weight of shaft later ; then the SW's would be altered. I have never heard of such a process before.> @herbert7890 said:

> > > @pricenicky said:

> > >Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

> >

> > I'm confused with this statement. like there is diff variations of the T-200 iron heads? or diff versions of the AMT Black shaft?

> >

> > I pre-ordered the T-200s with the default AMT Black (stiff), so im curious if I need to change anything.

> >

>

 

I have spoken with Titleist on many occasions and they said tip weights are used to balance heads within a set. They do not offset over length club’s with lighter clubs to my knowledge, you are stuck with the higher swing weight. Interesting fact is if you order multiple wedges in one order they will swingweight with tip weights to match the heaviest club. If you ordered separate this would not be the case obviously, so assuming the tip weights in almost every Titty iron head I have pulled are to match the set.

 

In regards to shafts, sounds weird but I guess it’s possible. Since all DG is just weight sorted anyway, I guess they could bucket lighter shafts vs heavier shafts. Can’t say I would think it’s true though.

 

 

[Bt31]

> @drscott266 said:

> > @pricenicky said:

> > I was told they have 2 different weights of t200 heads and that with the AMT SHAFTS they use some of both to offset the heavier weights of the shorter shafts to ensure the SW re the same throughout.I told CS I am concerned about this process because if I CHANGED to a specific weight of shaft later ; then the SW's would be altered. I have never heard of such a process before.> @herbert7890 said:

> > > > @pricenicky said:

> > > >Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

> > >

> > > I'm confused with this statement. like there is diff variations of the T-200 iron heads? or diff versions of the AMT Black shaft?

> > >

> > > I pre-ordered the T-200s with the default AMT Black (stiff), so im curious if I need to change anything.

> > >

> >

>

> I have spoken with Titleist on many occasions and they said tip weights are used to balance heads within a set. They do not offset over length club’s with lighter clubs to my knowledge, you are stuck with the higher swing weight. Interesting fact is if you order multiple wedges in one order they will swingweight with tip weights to match the heaviest club. If you ordered separate this would not be the case obviously, so assuming the tip weights in almost every Titty iron head I have pulled are to match the set.

>

> In regards to shafts, sounds weird but I guess it’s possible. Since all DG is just weight sorted anyway, I guess they could bucket lighter shafts vs heavier shafts. Can’t say I would think it’s true though.

>

>

 

 

That's interesting that they just add length to over length clubs with no regard to swing weight. I always have played a half inch over standard. With Ping, I know they try to get the swing weight to standard spec. But I had a set of Mizuno JPX 900 forged that always seemed a little head heavy to me so I assumed they added the length and did nothing to keep the swing weight down to spec. I'm considering the T200s but I don't want anything higher than D2 swing weight. If that's the case, I may reconsider.

[Chuck905]

> @drscott266 said:

> I just got fitted for new irons in this category, and was shocked how good the T200 were. I came in thinking, almost expecting to get P790's and honestly probably could have. I got the same numbers but better dispersion with T200, likely because I was coming from AP2 with the same shaft. I hit the ball a club further with T200 and they felt really **** good, couldnt tell they weren;t forged (completely). They are super thin looking, and I didn't expect to see the ball jump the way it did off the face. The P790 were great looking too, but in comparison look more akin to the AP1/T300 head but slightly better. I thought the P790 felt great when nutted, but pretty harsh when mis hit. My numbers were almost identical with the two heads TM had the DG105 so slight difference in shaft which probably helped me it Titleist a bit better. I also tried the Apex 19 and Apex Pro, the shaft didnt work for me in either, didnt care for Apex head at all. Apex Pro was soft as can be, but felt too close to AP2... also the shaft wasnt working and we didnt have much options. Hit the Epic Forged, and wow! Super soft, super long. Would have gained two clubs length, but just couldn't justify the $300 per club and what my setup would look like. T200's from 4-GW would fit my wedges perfectly, and I will drop my 60* since i rarely hit. Hope this helps anyone looking

 

Interesting. My current gamers are 2018 Cally Apex MB and back up are Mizuno 900T, looking at the new 790s to replace my Mizzy.

 

Took the 790 against the 919T and 985 Srixons, surprisingly, the 790 was best feeling and performance.

 

I’m debating trading my 900T for 790 @ 2* weaken loft in PX 6.0

[Warrick]

interesting feedback

[drscott266]

> @Bt31 said:

> > @drscott266 said:

> > > @pricenicky said:

> > > I was told they have 2 different weights of t200 heads and that with the AMT SHAFTS they use some of both to offset the heavier weights of the shorter shafts to ensure the SW re the same throughout.I told CS I am concerned about this process because if I CHANGED to a specific weight of shaft later ; then the SW's would be altered. I have never heard of such a process before.> @herbert7890 said:

> > > > > @pricenicky said:

> > > > >Titleist CS told me if I order the AMT shafts they actually mix the the two lots of light vs. std weight heads to keep the SW even with the amt..Not sure if I LIKE THIS IDEA VS.1 weight of heads for a specific shaft.

> > > >

> > > > I'm confused with this statement. like there is diff variations of the T-200 iron heads? or diff versions of the AMT Black shaft?

> > > >

> > > > I pre-ordered the T-200s with the default AMT Black (stiff), so im curious if I need to change anything.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > I have spoken with Titleist on many occasions and they said tip weights are used to balance heads within a set. They do not offset over length club’s with lighter clubs to my knowledge, you are stuck with the higher swing weight. Interesting fact is if you order multiple wedges in one order they will swingweight with tip weights to match the heaviest club. If you ordered separate this would not be the case obviously, so assuming the tip weights in almost every Titty iron head I have pulled are to match the set.

> >

> > In regards to shafts, sounds weird but I guess it’s possible. Since all DG is just weight sorted anyway, I guess they could bucket lighter shafts vs heavier shafts. Can’t say I would think it’s true though.

> >

> >

>

>

> That's interesting that they just add length to over length clubs with no regard to swing weight. I always have played a half inch over standard. With Ping, I know they try to get the swing weight to standard spec. But I had a set of Mizuno JPX 900 forged that always seemed a little head heavy to me so I assumed they added the length and did nothing to keep the swing weight down to spec. I'm considering the T200s but I don't want anything higher than D2 swing weight. If that's the case, I may reconsider.

 

Yup, that is right. There is really nothing they can do, as they claim they build their heads to such tight tolerences they don't have "light" heads. I was surprised at first too when I heard that, but since i have been playing +1/2 inch my whole life its all the same now, I am just used to heavier swing weights. You can request the swing weight on overlength to match standard but they can only do so much. I realize that this statement about their tight tolerences and still every iron I have ever seen having tip weights contradicts, but this is what they have told me. I have always enjoyed my conversations with Team Titleist staff, they do seem pretty knowledgeable on most topics.

[drscott266]

> @Chuck905 said:

> > @drscott266 said:

> > I just got fitted for new irons in this category, and was shocked how good the T200 were. I came in thinking, almost expecting to get P790's and honestly probably could have. I got the same numbers but better dispersion with T200, likely because I was coming from AP2 with the same shaft. I hit the ball a club further with T200 and they felt really **** good, couldnt tell they weren;t forged (completely). They are super thin looking, and I didn't expect to see the ball jump the way it did off the face. The P790 were great looking too, but in comparison look more akin to the AP1/T300 head but slightly better. I thought the P790 felt great when nutted, but pretty harsh when mis hit. My numbers were almost identical with the two heads TM had the DG105 so slight difference in shaft which probably helped me it Titleist a bit better. I also tried the Apex 19 and Apex Pro, the shaft didnt work for me in either, didnt care for Apex head at all. Apex Pro was soft as can be, but felt too close to AP2... also the shaft wasnt working and we didnt have much options. Hit the Epic Forged, and wow! Super soft, super long. Would have gained two clubs length, but just couldn't justify the $300 per club and what my setup would look like. T200's from 4-GW would fit my wedges perfectly, and I will drop my 60* since i rarely hit. Hope this helps anyone looking

>

> Interesting. My current gamers are 2018 Cally Apex MB and back up are Mizuno 900T, looking at the new 790s to replace my Mizzy.

>

> Took the 790 against the 919T and 985 Srixons, surprisingly, the 790 was best feeling and performance.

>

> I’m debating trading my 900T for 790 @ 2* weaken loft in PX 6.0

 

Comparing those irons to MB's is kinda apples to oranges, I would be surprised if you didnt see a jump in performance. I agree the P790's felt good, but personally I would not rank them above a true forging. I would look at the T200 if you were at all interested as they will look more similar to blades at address. My numbers were almost identical to the P790 on good and bad hits, but your results may vary.

[Hedgehog]

Gaming the iBlades at the moment and really interested in the T200 irons for some reason, is the DG S300 120 TI an option for these?

[garym2001]

Got my T200s yesterday with AMT Tour X100. Full club longer than my 718 AP2s. They feel great but go very high. Gotta work on getting the flight down a bit.

[drscott266]

> @Lumberjack627 said:

> Just tried the 790’s. I have AP3s now and if you have been playing Ap2 irons for 10 years your not going to like the 790 feel is great but top line is very chunky.

 

This was my impression too, some of my fitting I felt like it was a confidence booster but if I had to execute a shot on the course I’m worried it could be a detriment. I also felt like feel on pretty well struck shots was awesome but clunky shots felt overly clunky. Fitting showed T200 or P790 were neck and neck, but my fitter knows I have played Titleist forever so thought that might be the last 1%. They honestly did feel comfortable to look at and swing, but I got the extra club in distance i said I was looking for. I ordered the T200’s but have been second guessing all night just because I was so sure the 790’s were gonna be it. The deal breaker for me was partial shots, the T200’s felt like a thinner sole which for me helps to flight shots. I just was crazy in love with the 790 looks, actually don’t care for the back of the T200’s at all (AP3 were very appealing IMHO). Am I crazy for having second thoughts when performance is equal to slightly skewed in favor of what I ordered?

[agood3putt]

> @drscott266 said:

> > @Lumberjack627 said:

> > Just tried the 790’s. I have AP3s now and if you have been playing Ap2 irons for 10 years your not going to like the 790 feel is great but top line is very chunky.

>

> This was my impression too, some of my fitting I felt like it was a confidence booster but if I had to execute a shot on the course I’m worried it could be a detriment. I also felt like feel on pretty well struck shots was awesome but clunky shots felt overly clunky. Fitting showed T200 or P790 were neck and neck, but my fitter knows I have played Titleist forever so thought that might be the last 1%. They honestly did feel comfortable to look at and swing, but I got the extra club in distance i said I was looking for. I ordered the T200’s but have been second guessing all night just because I was so sure the 790’s were gonna be it. The deal breaker for me was partial shots, the T200’s felt like a thinner sole which for me helps to flight shots. I just was crazy in love with the 790 looks, actually don’t care for the back of the T200’s at all (AP3 were very appealing IMHO). Am I crazy for having second thoughts when performance is equal to slightly skewed in favor of what I ordered?

 

Not crazy. I get that feeling from time to time with irons. I think the way the clubs looks is a very underrated aspect of iron purchasing. Youre going to be using them a lot throughout your round. Might as well get one that looks good to your eye.