New Rifle Shafts

[tercoidegw]

> @"Howard Jones" said:

>

> Is there no silk screen label with the RIFLE logo above the tip?

> On the old tour van blanks, that silk screen was 17.00" inch from the tip on a uncut blank. Tip section was 10 inch, so it was easy to check how a shaft was tip trimmed.

> Your set looks like 3-9, not 4-PW , or was the plan to soft step a set 5.5 ?

No silkscreen logo. I plan 4-Pw, no softstep. The set looks to be frequency matched as was tip and butt trimmed. The only odd thing about it is the CPM labels from 299 to 302.

Today I´m testing the #8 iron 36 3/4" D3

[Thayneil]

299 to 302 is only plus minus 1.5?

 

[Howard_Jones]

> @Thayneil said:

> 299 to 302 is only plus minus 1.5?

>

 

Yes and thats also the tolerance for Play ready clubs, but we start by equalizing Blanks in set for flex matching like RIFLE, dont forget that no matter how precise we build a set, there will always be tolerances on all specs, and they are visible as a sum on butt CPM as a variable to its slope. Thats why we start by equalizing the blanks to eliminate that tolerance, and thats why they are only sold trough True Temper Performance Fitting Centers. In this case, those labels might be misleading and referees to the blanks, so a little more info from the seller should have followed the set.

 

The problem is, there is no "standard" for how this shafts shall be delivered, it should have included a spec sheet and install instruction when sold like this. I always did that, but its no "rules" in the PFC system who advice to to so, but there should have been, since many wants to buy shafts and install them self. PFC centers should be able to deliver RIFLE to the Weight and Flight pattern the Customer wants, its way more than just "standard" or Flighted, you can have the flight pattern you want, be it Low mid or High, or a Flighted slope as you want it. No other shafts on the marked is as versatile as RIFLE FCM if we know what we can make out of them.

[tercoidegw]

No PFC in Argentina. Nearest club builder is 670 miles away so I build my clubs (and friend's ones!) Been doing that for 15 years. I would love to have had a detailed spec sheet. Set is built 4/8" between clubs, +1/4" D3-3.5 3-9 , D4.5 PW. Hope they fit my poor swing better than the 50+ previous iterations. Thanks for your comments Howard.

[tercoidegw]

> @Thayneil said:

> 299 to 302 is only plus minus 1.5?

>

 

Good enough fot my +- 10 CPM swing.

[tercoidegw]

After 3 full rounds and some time in the range I can say there is something wrong with me and the shafts as I can't help hitting everything to the right. Distance is Okay, but my GIR% is the years lower.

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> After 3 full rounds and some time in the range I can say there is something wrong with me and the shafts as I can't help hitting everything to the right. Distance is Okay, but my GIR% is the years lower.

 

All clubs in the set or just a few?

[tercoidegw]

All the set. My SS with the 6iron is around 92mph, slow to mid tempo. Kind of vertical swing.

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> All the set. My SS with the 6iron is around 92mph, slow to mid tempo. Kind of vertical swing.

 

Are we talking unwanted fade, or a push? (lie angles....did you check them with the ball marker test?)

Did you chose a different grip model for this set than former sets?

Like i was into above, that set seems like SS1 to me, so its only FCM 5.1 and thats to weak for 92 Mph with the 6 iron.

With a medium swing FCM 6.2 is whats suggested as starting point for testing at that club speed.

[tercoidegw]

I did built the set with a mid size (Karma Mid Size Light), when I usually use GolfPride tour velvet with 2 wraps. Changed after hitting a club with that grip that felt really good. Can't tell the final FCM...

Shaft Fit app put me in these shafts. Thought It was ok, this is my trackman session with the 6.0 (felt a bit heavy I recall) last year

Recomendation was 1* up, my set is std.

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

Take a ball marker test for lie angle, they might need more upright, and the larger grip is enough to slow down face closing and cause a right push (path inside out need a closed face vs path), so also try a stronger right hand so you close face angle more than you do now.

[tercoidegw]

ok, the grip maybe the issue then. So next iteration could be 1* up and get away from larger grips. Not really into change my gripping, pro friends said it's a very good one, not weak at all. I don't feel the shafts too flexible as I don't load them a lot (swing parallel to ground + smooth transition), and also It's a long shot to swap them...

[tercoidegw]

If I hardstep they become -1/4" , and keep the resultant s.w. (D0 probably) then there is going to be 0.7 FCM stiffer?

I don't mind playing 1/4" short at all, since I'm not tall at 5'11". How much upright to bend to compensate?

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> If I hardstep they become -1/4" , and keep the resultant s.w. (D0 probably) then there is going to be 0.7 FCM stiffer?

> I don't mind playing 1/4" short at all, since I'm not tall at 5'11". How much upright to bend to compensate?

 

Hard stepping the set you have makes them 0.5" shorter than now (can be done by tip trim instead of moving shafts), but we dont know if flex is part of the issue, but it might be, so i would not do it, but try to pull 2 heads and move 1 shaft to try that off. If you did a ball marker test for lie and found them good, going 0.5" shorter makes a need for 0.5* more upright "on the paper"....Flex moved 4 CPM so if im right that they now play to 5.1, they will be back at 5.5

 

Think of lie angles like this:

If the set you have is average 0.5* on lie angle slope from iron to iron, we can look at it as 1.0* pr. inch

If we change play length by 1/8", lie should be adjustet by 1/8" of 1.0* and 2/8" shorter as 2/8 of 1.0*....so at 4/8 of 1.0* it becomes 0.5*, juts like it is from one club shorter or longer now.

[tercoidegw]

Why 5.1? Aren't they 5.5??

Ok, pull the #6, #7 ; put the #7 shaft on the #6. Will be -1/4" @ 37.25" . What about the swingweigth? The #6 was D3 , but if assembled without additional weigthing @-1/2" will be like D0?? That doesn't gain CPM?

Will do the ballmark testing from grass.

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> Why 5.1? Aren't they 5.5??

> Ok, pull the #6, #7 ; put the #7 shaft on the #6. Will be -1/4" @ 37.25" . What about the swingweigth? The #6 was D3 , but if assembled without additional weigthing @-1/2" will be like D0?? That doesn't gain CPM?

> Will do the ballmark testing from grass.

 

If you scroll back to page 1, i made a comment on the raw shaft lengths, and that the set look like 3 - 9, not 4-PW and thats why i asked if the plan was softstepping once since thats what you get if we use 3-9 for 4-PW. I also got the impression you build a classic set with 4/8" between clubs, and then moving shafts makes them 0.5" shorter (then now, not vs std).

If this is a 4/8" set, SW drops 3 SWP and if thats not reset, they stiffen up the shaft by 3 CPM on top of hard stepping (4 CPM), but feel of head weight is way more important than feel of flex, so i would not use a lower SW to tune flex unless they was too "head heavy" now.

[tercoidegw]

OK, got it. SW is important to me. But 5.5 is still lower that the 6.2 you said would be the correct flex for my SS. A week ago I bought a set of KBS Tour S+ from eBay on a whim ... that will reach me in 2 weeks. From your famous "Flex chart" KBS Tour S+ 125gr SS = 6.2 : )

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> OK, got it. SW is important to me. But 5.5 is still lower that the 6.2 you said would be the correct flex for my SS. A week ago I bought a set of KBS Tour S+ from eBay on a whim ... that will reach me in 2 weeks. From your famous "Flex chart" KBS Tour S+ 125gr SS = 6.2 : )

 

As flex those KBS might be a better fit, but weight is different too since its a constant wgt shaft.

The #6 iron would be very close (123.6 vs 125), and shorter clubs gain weight vs your RIfle.

Try one club strait in before you soft step them, its expensive to make it wrong....

[tercoidegw]

I always sell my leftovers locally at a slightly lower price. Time is expensive. So far its another year with poor performance from playing wrong irons. My stats FIR, Scrambling and putting are OK. So I also bougth a set of Ping S55 blue dot 1* up to speed things up. They will be the guinea pig for the KBS.

[tercoidegw]

A good swing from grass produced a shot to the rigth of the green , short and this pattern

I also hit another #7 Nike with Modus3 105 stiff that is 2* up. A good swing also went to the left, on the green and this pattern

 

[Howard_Jones]

The first one seems like you need about 0.75 to 1.0 more Up right, but toe side impact also indicate too short or too low head weight....

 

 

[tercoidegw]

Head weigth on the first one is 270gr , the second 273gr. Both are +1/4" vs 37" std

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> Head weigth on the first one is 270gr , the second 273gr. Both are +1/4" vs 37" std

 

Bend the first one 1* more up, and have 1-3 grams lead tape ready to add, and see what happens. Toe side impact opens the club face, and combined with 1 flat = ball moving left, i would expect a slice or close to. The 2. head seem to need about the same (about 1 up, but the line is so short its hard to judge it)

[tercoidegw]

It is possible that a shaft that is too flexible for the swing deflects the clubhead at impact making it dynamically flatter?

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> It is possible that a shaft that is too flexible for the swing deflects the clubhead at impact making it dynamically flatter?

 

In theory yes, the shaft bends 2 ways, both forward and down, but we should judge flex from a feel perspective and what it does to the players swing. Flex works as a trigger for how much power we load into that club, so if feel of flex is strong, the player will use more power on the next swing, and at some point to much (overplaying, swinging out of his shoes to make the shaft work), and too soft might slow the player down to much and can be bad for tempo timing. If feel is good, the players tempo is fluid and constant, and dispersion the same, we should not worry about flex.

[tercoidegw]

First, my apologize to the OP for threadjack his post. This became a personal fitting thread :)

I bent the Nike irons 1* up, and played a round without a single miss to the right. All misses went left, I guess because of the combination of swing flaws (over the top) and a shaft that is too light. Impressive how a slight change un the lie angle was that important.

In two days the new heads and shaft will arrive. Will get back here with pre build measurements.

 

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

> First, my apologize to the OP for threadjack his post. This became a personal fitting thread :)

> I bent the Nike irons 1* up, and played a round without a single miss to the right. All misses went left, I guess because of the combination of swing flaws (over the top) and a shaft that is too light. Impressive how a slight change un the lie angle was that important.

> In two days the new heads and shaft will arrive. Will get back here with pre build measurements.

>

 

Did you try some added wight, or did you find the center just by tweaking lie alone with 1* upright? (Srixon with RIFLE)

I thought the distance out to the impact line was so large, i was convinced more head weight was needed too...

 

1* Flat at impact is equal to a face angle 1* open to path, both gives a 3* FADE tilt on the spin axis, so Lie angles matters, or we will have to compensate by a more open or more closed face angle, but that makes it way harder to hit a fade or draw when needed.

[tercoidegw]

> Did you try some added wight, or did you find the center just by tweaking lie alone with 1* upright? (Srixon with RIFLE)

I ran out of leadtape. Cannot find in town or nearby. So the Srixons+Rifle are at my workshop. I'm playing around with the old Nikes. BTW I played 9 holes at even par yesterday, wich is this year's best!

> 1* Flat at impact is equal to a face angle 1* open to path, both gives a 3* FADE tilt on the spin axis, so Lie angles matters, or we will have to compensate by a more open or more closed face angle, but that makes it way harder to hit a fade or draw when needed.

Yes, but what you said about the clubhead interaction with the soil opening it even more when it's digging in a flat way must be a huge factor too

[Howard_Jones]

> @tercoidegw said:

>

> Yes, but what you said about the clubhead interaction with the soil opening it even more when it's digging in a flat way must be a huge factor too

 

That could not have been me, Lie angle and digging happens AFTER the ball is gone, while a toe side impact on the face open face angle during impact.

Here is a few good slow motion videos of impact and just after.

[tercoidegw]

 

> That could not have been me, Lie angle and digging happens AFTER the ball is gone, while a toe side impact on the face open face angle during impact.

> Here is a few good slow motion videos of impact and just after.

Sorry , I may have missread a post.

The new stuff arrived in friday.

S55 blue dot and KBS Tour 125 S+

Irons came with DG Pro X100. I took the #7 to the Saturday round to hit a few shots, expecting they were heavy and stiff but got surprised on how easy could shot 10 balls with no warm-up. Will take the full set for a round before doing anything.