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Best driver .............ever


Night train

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I'm just here for @"Ashley Schaeffer" 's excellent satire.

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Is it even possible to compare Snead and DJ?

Boom boom was one hlluva driver of the ball too, at least deserving a place in the top 10. Havent seen Champions in a good while but I suppose he still can get the ball moving. Big John deserves to be mentioned too.

 

One thing, I started playing ´81 at the end of my teens, a period of life when driving distance is a huge parameter. And I cannot really remember anyone being mentioned as like the Daly of the time. When Big John came along it was like the long drives really got a name. Remember the oohs and aahs from when he competed at the scandinavian masters in '93 or something like that.

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Just imagine this swing with a graphite shafted 460cc head and proV1....

He and Johnny Miller would murder the ball...

 

 

mnh4chkn52xn.jpeg

 

-Chris

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dumbest putter ever...backstryke with tons of lead tape

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Tron Carter

Pro Caddie & I teach golf

Driver: PXG 9* ; HZDRUS Handcrafted 63 6.0

Long Game: PXG 13*, PXG 16*; HZDRUS Handcrafted 83 6.5 (flip between the two)

Driving Iron: PXG 0311 4 iron bent 17.5*; ProForce VTS 100HX 

Hybrid: PXG Gen 1 19*; HZDRUS Handcrafted 100 6.5

Irons: NIKE CB 4-PW Raw finish ; Aldila RIP Tour SLT 115 Tour Stiff (.25 inch gapping)

Wedges: Titleist SM9 50*, 54*; True Temper DG S300 (36 inches)

L-Wedge: Custom 60*; KBS Tour Stiff (36 inches)

Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Design #5 35 inches: Super Stroke GP Tour

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> @Golfnutgalen said:

> > @"Night train" said:

> > It's sad that most players today have no idea how powerful Jack was in his prime.

> How powerful was he though? I think Brandel argued he would be outdriving the longest hitters by 30 yards at one point and I think that is totally bogus. Like I said there isn't much data pre 1980, but we do have some:

>

> https://www.pga.com/golf-instruction/golf-buzz/how-far-would-golfs-legends-drive-ball-using-modern-equipment

> IBM recorded driving distance data at 11 PGA Tour events in 1968. The top 10 players averaged 270.2 yards, the average was 264.0 yards and Nicklaus led the Tour at 276.0 yards. Adding 35 yards for increased speed, hotter driver and better ball, Nicklaus would've averaged 311.0 last season.

>

> 276 is a long way obviously, but it was not that much further than his contemporaries.

>

>

>

>

 

Jack hit driver much farther than 276 if the shot called for it. The PGA had two long drive contests in the early 1960s. Jack won both with drives of 341 and 320.

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Cant say ever since ever is still going..... haaaa haaa haaaa. For me best driver of my time has to be the RBZ. To say that the extra 13 yard promise was true. It was hard for me to switch equipment but that driver made me give up my PING Titanium IST.

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> @"Night train" said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > >

> > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > >

> > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> >

> > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

>

>

> I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

>

>

 

A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

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> @Cwebb said:

> > @"Night train" said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > >

> > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > >

> > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> >

> >

> > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> >

> >

>

> A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

 

Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

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> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @Cwebb said:

> > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > >

> > >

> > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > >

> > >

> >

> > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

>

> Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

 

Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

 

In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

 

I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

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[b]WITB[/b]:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball

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> @dpb5031 said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> >

> > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

>

> Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

>

> In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

>

> I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

 

Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

 

Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

 

The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

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> @dpb5031 said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> >

> > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

>

> Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

>

> In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

>

> I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

 

Totally agree. His average of 276 (tour leader) is flat-out untrue. I think the 360 number is probably closer to the truth. Often times, he would hit it so much further than the rest of the field that he would have irons into par-5s when his competitors couldn't reach in two. I know most people on here just started playing golf in the last 5 years or so, so it's important to remind them that Nicklaus played with a wooden driver with a steel shaft. He first had his CH speed measured in 1998, and he says it was 118. That means it was closer to 145 when he was 30. And he hit it dead straight. Almost never misses a fairway in the youtube highlights.

 

Averaged 276? I'm not buying it. He had at least 84 yards more when he wanted it.

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> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > >

> > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> >

> > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> >

> > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> >

> > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

>

> Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

>

> Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

>

> The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

 

There was a heavy wind directly into the shot, and he hit the flag stick.

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> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > >

> > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> >

> > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> >

> > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> >

> > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

>

> Totally agree. His average of 276 (tour leader) is flat-out untrue. I think the 360 number is probably closer to the truth. Often times, he would hit it so much further than the rest of the field that he would have irons into par-5s when his competitors couldn't reach in two. I know most people on here just started playing golf in the last 5 years or so, so it's important to remind them that Nicklaus played with a wooden driver with a steel shaft. He first had his CH speed measured in 1998, and he says it was 118. That means it was closer to 145 when he was 30. And he hit it dead straight. Almost never misses a fairway in the youtube highlights.

>

> Averaged 276? I'm not buying it. He had at least 84 yards more when he wanted it.

 

"Nicklaus considers his longest drive in competition to be during the final round of the 1964 Masters on the 15th hole, where he had less than 160 yards left to the 500 yard par five."

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> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > >

> > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> >

> > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> >

> > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> >

> > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

>

> Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

>

> Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

>

> The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

 

Ok, but the topic is "best driver...ever." How do you define that? Obviously it's pretty subjective. Do you take equipment changes over the years into consideration? How 'bout converting those long, straight drives into scoring, wins, and top finishes? I'll assume we're talking about actual golf, otherwise let's start talking about long-drive competitors, right?

 

When you look at it in totality, it's hard not to argue for Jack. Too bad they didn't keep a strokes gained off the tee stat back then.

USGA Index: ~0

[b]WITB[/b]:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball

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> @dpb5031 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > >

> > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > >

> > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > >

> > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > >

> > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> >

> > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> >

> > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> >

> > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

>

> Ok, but the topic is "best driver...ever." How do you define that? Obviously it's pretty subjective. Do you take equipment changes over the years into consideration? How 'bout converting those long, straight drives into scoring, wins, and top finishes? I'll assume we're talking about actual golf, otherwise let's start talking about long-drive competitors, right?

>

> When you look at it in totality, it's hard not to argue for Jack. Too bad they didn't keep a strokes gained off the tee stat back then.

 

Of course it is subjective. It is really hard to compare era to era.

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

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> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > >

> > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> >

> > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> >

> > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> >

> > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

>

> Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

>

> Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

>

> The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

 

Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

 

"... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

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> @LICC said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > >

> > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > >

> > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > >

> > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > >

> > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> >

> > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> >

> > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> >

> > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

>

> Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

>

> "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

 

I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

 

Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

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Share on other sites

> @LICC said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > >

> > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > >

> > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > >

> > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > >

> > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> >

> > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> >

> > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> >

> > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

>

> Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

>

> "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

 

Knowing how humble he is, it was probably closer to 325.

Despite it being an admittedly huge advantage, he just didn't want to do it very often.

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> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > >

> > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > >

> > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > >

> > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > >

> > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > >

> > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> >

> > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

>

> I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

>

> Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

 

"To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

 

-Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

 

 

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> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > >

> > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > >

> > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > >

> > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > >

> > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > >

> > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> >

> > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

>

> Knowing how humble he is, it was probably closer to 325.

> Despite it being an admittedly huge advantage, he just didn't want to do it very often.

 

For years Austin was well known by professional golfers for his length off the tee. But it was one drive in 1974 that secured his name in history. While playing in the U.S. National Seniors Tournament, at the Winterwood Golf Course (now the Desert Rose) Austin was put in a foursome with PGA Champion Chandler Harper. After hitting several 400-yard drives, Chandler said, "Mike, let's see you really let one go." Austin drove the green on 450-yard par 4. It carried to the edge of the green, bounced over and rolled past the pin and off the back edge. In a 2003 interview, Chandler said he found a ball on the next tee box and called to Austin, "This is impossible, but there is a ball over here." They identified the ball as Austin's and stepped off the distance back to the center of the green. The drive was 515 yards. GBWW no longer recognizes the world's longest drive in their book.

 

Several factors make this record feat especially amazing, although there was a tailwind estimated at 25 mph. The drive was done on level ground, using a persimmon wood driver with 10 degrees of loft and a 43.5" extra-stiff steel shaft, the ball was a soft balata and Mike Austin was 64 years old. The improved technology of today should achieve far greater distances in the same conditions.

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

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> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > >

> > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > >

> > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > >

> > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > >

> > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > >

> > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> >

> > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

>

> I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

>

> Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

 

Yea, that fade is really killing DJ, JB Holmes, Finau, and a number of other long hitters on Tour these days.

 

There's a real misunderstanding about the old ball and old equipment. It generally didn't pay to go after it at nearly 100% effort on every shot like today's guys do with 460cc titanium and the much lower spinning solid urethane ball. It's not inconceivable in the least to believe that Jack could call on an extra 24 yards above his 276 avg.

USGA Index: ~0

[b]WITB[/b]:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball

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> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > >

> > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > >

> > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > >

> > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > >

> > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > >

> > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> >

> > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

>

> Knowing how humble he is, it was probably closer to 325.

> Despite it being an admittedly huge advantage, he just didn't want to do it very often.

 

So you are calling Jack Nicklaus a liar. Got it.

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> @bscinstnct said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > >

> > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > >

> > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > >

> > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > >

> > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > >

> > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > >

> > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> >

> > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> >

> > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

>

> "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

>

> -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

>

>

 

"... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

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      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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