Cameron Collector Site registration

[bladehunter]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

>

> Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

>

>

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > >

> > > > They can always start over though.

> > > So the site is officially gone?

> >

> > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> >

> > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> >

> > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

>

 

Trust me “ crowd “ is an apt term for describing the inner sanctum .

[noodle3872]

I’ve been a member of TCC since 2006. The site was an awesome site back then. I loved the people I got to know on TCC so much I even went to the 2007 ICC to meet a bunch of the friends I made via the site. It was a blast of a trip! However, over the years TCC has become bigger and sadly, more political. Then it got “clicky”. The constant battle to keep the Cameron brand pure and healthy seemed like a greater priority. This led to less threads, less good hearted banter between members and more activity in the classified section as people used it as a place to sell their Cameron gear. I hope the site comes back however it’s going to be a challenge since the site has one over arching topic. Plus other sites actually, in my opinion anyway, do just as good a job covering Cameron putters etc.

[GeorgeHWB]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

>

> Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

>

>

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > >

> > > > They can always start over though.

> > > So the site is officially gone?

> >

> > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> >

> > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> >

> > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

>

 

I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

 

When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

 

I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

[ckay]

> @Im_A_Savage said:

> I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

 

How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

[GeorgeHWB]

> @ckay said:

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

>

> How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

 

I know the story well...

[976-Evil]

> @Im_A_Savage said:

> > @ckay said:

> > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> >

> > How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

>

> I know the story well...

I don't, lets hear it lol

[GeorgeHWB]

> @976-Evil said:

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > @ckay said:

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > >

> > > How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

> >

> > I know the story well...

> I don't, lets hear it lol

 

There's a lot of info in this mind bending thread.

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/277979/scotty-cameron-classic-mini/p1

 

And this thread from Putter Talk covers a lot of The Cameron Collector behind the scenes drama.

 

https://puttertalk.com/community/threads/my-participation-in-cameron-collector.1963/

 

Long story short, Doug Hardman started The Cameron Collector. Then later started Putter Talk. Scotty did not like the idea of the person running TCC also having a putter website that discussed other putter makers. Doug was forced (or strongly encouraged) to transfer TCC to Bill Vogeney, a well known Cameron collector and friend of Scotty's.

 

 

 

[FEUO]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> >

> > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> >

> >

> > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > >

> > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > >

> > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > >

> > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > >

> > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> >

>

> Trust me “ crowd “ is an apt term for describing the inner sanctum .

 

Sorry, but I think thats ridiculous. Its a handful of people. Not a "crowd".

Why would I trust anyone on wrx about their opinions of tcc. Known fact this place fuels the hate and discord.

[FEUO]

> @Im_A_Savage said:

> > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> >

> > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> >

> >

> > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > >

> > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > >

> > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > >

> > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > >

> > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> >

>

> I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

>

> When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

>

> I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

 

What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

 

[Puma74]

Not an impressive process, thats for sure.....

[FEUO]

> @Im_A_Savage said:

> > @976-Evil said:

> > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > @ckay said:

> > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > >

> > > > How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

> > >

> > > I know the story well...

> > I don't, lets hear it lol

>

> There's a lot of info in this mind bending thread.

>

> https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/277979/scotty-cameron-classic-mini/p1

>

> And this thread from Putter Talk covers a lot of The Cameron Collector behind the scenes drama.

>

> https://puttertalk.com/community/threads/my-participation-in-cameron-collector.1963/

>

> Long story short, Doug Hardman started The Cameron Collector. Then later started Putter Talk. Scotty did not like the idea of the person running TCC also having a putter website that discussed other putter makers. Doug was forced (or strongly encouraged) to transfer TCC to Bill Vogeney, a well known Cameron collector and friend of Scotty's.

>

>

>

 

These stories and threads are many years old. Also referring to Vog as the site owner without an update of ownership transfer to Rand is also terribly outdated.

Things change, sites change, people change. One thing that hasn't is people's ability to rag on Don. Go ahead. But its boring as that horse is long beaten and dead.

 

The bigger question is the market and especially high end custom putters.

Who is buying them? Why is resale currently low? Is other makers? Is the market drying up? Or has it been flooded? This is a far more interesting conversation.

[ckay]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > @ckay said:

> > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > > >

> > > > > How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

> > > >

> > > > I know the story well...

> > > I don't, lets hear it lol

> >

> > There's a lot of info in this mind bending thread.

> >

> > https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/277979/scotty-cameron-classic-mini/p1

> >

> > And this thread from Putter Talk covers a lot of The Cameron Collector behind the scenes drama.

> >

> > https://puttertalk.com/community/threads/my-participation-in-cameron-collector.1963/

> >

> > Long story short, Doug Hardman started The Cameron Collector. Then later started Putter Talk. Scotty did not like the idea of the person running TCC also having a putter website that discussed other putter makers. Doug was forced (or strongly encouraged) to transfer TCC to Bill Vogeney, a well known Cameron collector and friend of Scotty's.

> >

> >

> >

>

> These stories and threads are many years old. Also referring to Vog as the site owner without an update of ownership transfer to Rand is also terribly outdated.

> Things change, sites change, people change. One thing that hasn't is people's ability to rag on Don. Go ahead. But its boring as that horse is long beaten and dead.

>

> The bigger question is the market and especially high end custom putters.

> Who is buying them? Why is resale currently low? Is other makers? Is the market drying up? Or has it been flooded? This is a far more interesting conversation.

 

I personally think the Cameron market has been flooded for quite a long time. To own a 009 was a feat at one point in one's ability in securing one. Also, other CTs had quite a bit of hand work even it if were just handstamping a putter creating a unique article. Once the CNC'd CTs came about fully engraved, it kind of lost its luster. Couple that with 10 new pieces being released weekly.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > >

> > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > >

> > >

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > >

> > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > >

> > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > >

> > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > >

> >

> > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> >

> > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> >

> > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

>

> What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

>

 

lol.

 

Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

 

I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

 

Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

 

My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > @ckay said:

> > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > > >

> > > > > How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

> > > >

> > > > I know the story well...

> > > I don't, lets hear it lol

> >

> > There's a lot of info in this mind bending thread.

> >

> > https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/277979/scotty-cameron-classic-mini/p1

> >

> > And this thread from Putter Talk covers a lot of The Cameron Collector behind the scenes drama.

> >

> > https://puttertalk.com/community/threads/my-participation-in-cameron-collector.1963/

> >

> > Long story short, Doug Hardman started The Cameron Collector. Then later started Putter Talk. Scotty did not like the idea of the person running TCC also having a putter website that discussed other putter makers. Doug was forced (or strongly encouraged) to transfer TCC to Bill Vogeney, a well known Cameron collector and friend of Scotty's.

> >

> >

> >

>

> These stories and threads are many years old. Also referring to Vog as the site owner without an update of ownership transfer to Rand is also terribly outdated.

> Things change, sites change, people change. One thing that hasn't is people's ability to rag on Don. Go ahead. But its boring as that horse is long beaten and dead.

>

> The bigger question is the market and especially high end custom putters.

> Who is buying them? Why is resale currently low? Is other makers? Is the market drying up? Or has it been flooded? This is a far more interesting conversation.

 

 

The market was started flooding as soon as the circle T stamp was made a retail item. Writing was on the wall from that day on. The only thing now that isn’t flooded are pre circle T sticks like my GSS 009 , and other hand worked tour putters from earlier days. I’ve been offered sticks recently at close to half price of what they would have been 3/4 years ago. I’m not sure where the bottom is. But we aren’t there yet.

[FEUO]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > >

> > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > >

> > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > >

> > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > >

> > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > >

> > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> >

> > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> >

>

> lol.

>

> Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

>

> I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

>

> Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

>

> My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

>

>

 

Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

[bladehunter]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > > >

> > > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > > >

> > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > >

> > > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> > >

> >

> > lol.

> >

> > Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

> >

> > I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

> >

> > Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

> >

> > My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

> >

> >

>

> Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

> Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

> For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

 

Thanks for bringing that up. I spent 0$ on that putter. It was placed in my care by a mentor who knew I’d appreciate it for what it is and where it’s been , Not what it’s worth. I knew that’s where you’d go. Perfect example of what I’m talking about over there. If a person in the inner circle owns that stick it’s for sale for $10k plus. But outsider like me has it and it’s “ hey bud that’s worthless and we don’t care what you have “. Perfect example.

 

That sounds harsh I know. But. It’s been my experience that you have one group who would care about value. And another group that would love to hear that putter or some of my others story. But at any rate you’d end up with two factions calling BS because Don Cameron didn’t certify the story.

 

And lastly. It’s hilarious to watch the double talk come out here. Just a few posts up you yourself mention the market and why it is what it is. Now you literally say “ nobody cares what you have or what it’s worth “. The entire market you subscribe to works around the idea that everybody cares about what you have for sale or in a collection and what it’s worth. And this double talk folks is why I do not collect Cameron putters .

[FEUO]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > > > >

> > > > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > >

> > > > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> > > >

> > >

> > > lol.

> > >

> > > Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

> > >

> > > I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

> > >

> > > Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

> > >

> > > My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

> > Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

> > For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

>

> Thanks for bringing that up. I spent 0$ on that putter. It was placed in my care by a mentor who knew I’d appreciate it for what it is and where it’s been , Not what it’s worth. I knew that’s where you’d go. Perfect example of what I’m talking about over there. If a person in the inner circle owns that stick it’s for sale for $10k plus. But outsider like me has it and it’s “ hey bud that’s worthless and we don’t care what you have “. Perfect example.

>

> That sounds harsh I know. But. It’s been my experience that you have one group who would care about value. And another group that would love to hear that putter or some of my others story. But at any rate you’d end up with two factions calling BS because Don Cameron didn’t certify the story.

>

> And lastly. It’s hilarious to watch the double talk come out here. Just a few posts up you yourself mention the market and why it is what it is. Now you literally say “ nobody cares what you have or what it’s worth “. The entire market you subscribe to works around the idea that everybody cares about what you have for sale or in a collection and what it’s worth. And this double talk folks is why I do not collect Cameron putters .

 

I know reading posts on the internet has interpretation issues. This is NOT what I was getting at, at all. When I said "no one cares what you have" it was meant that the group is welcoming to people whether they have an OTR or handmade. Its about character, participation, openness, and if it comes with a cool story even better. There is no question the market is part of the hobby, but the collecting site is more than just the hobby. Honestly, jaded folks like you with an axe to grind would likely not feel welcomed. No one needs the negativity or presumptions you are bringing. Bye!

 

[bladehunter]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > > >

> > > > > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > lol.

> > > >

> > > > Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

> > > >

> > > > I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

> > > >

> > > > Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

> > > >

> > > > My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

> > > Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

> > > For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

> >

> > Thanks for bringing that up. I spent 0$ on that putter. It was placed in my care by a mentor who knew I’d appreciate it for what it is and where it’s been , Not what it’s worth. I knew that’s where you’d go. Perfect example of what I’m talking about over there. If a person in the inner circle owns that stick it’s for sale for $10k plus. But outsider like me has it and it’s “ hey bud that’s worthless and we don’t care what you have “. Perfect example.

> >

> > That sounds harsh I know. But. It’s been my experience that you have one group who would care about value. And another group that would love to hear that putter or some of my others story. But at any rate you’d end up with two factions calling BS because Don Cameron didn’t certify the story.

> >

> > And lastly. It’s hilarious to watch the double talk come out here. Just a few posts up you yourself mention the market and why it is what it is. Now you literally say “ nobody cares what you have or what it’s worth “. The entire market you subscribe to works around the idea that everybody cares about what you have for sale or in a collection and what it’s worth. And this double talk folks is why I do not collect Cameron putters .

>

> I know reading posts on the internet has interpretation issues. This is NOT what I was getting at, at all. When I said "no one cares what you have" it was meant that the group is welcoming to people whether they have an OTR or handmade. Its about character, participation, openness, and if it comes with a cool story even better. There is no question the market is part of the hobby, but the collecting site is more than just the hobby. Honestly, jaded folks like you with an axe to grind would likely not feel welcomed. No one needs the negativity or presumptions you are bringing. Bye!

>

Again. I had very few posts. I brought nothing to that site. I just read a lot. I’m telling you what I took away. Not what I brought.

 

Citing negative events that have happened over there isn’t bringing negativity. It’s just the opposite of covering up the negative behavior that has been widely known and reported from over there. I mean there are literally instances of coas / putter characteristics being changed etc. by inner circle folks over there. So please don’t lecture me about character and openness.

 

[FEUO]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > > > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > lol.

> > > > >

> > > > > Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

> > > > >

> > > > > My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

> > > > Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

> > > > For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

> > >

> > > Thanks for bringing that up. I spent 0$ on that putter. It was placed in my care by a mentor who knew I’d appreciate it for what it is and where it’s been , Not what it’s worth. I knew that’s where you’d go. Perfect example of what I’m talking about over there. If a person in the inner circle owns that stick it’s for sale for $10k plus. But outsider like me has it and it’s “ hey bud that’s worthless and we don’t care what you have “. Perfect example.

> > >

> > > That sounds harsh I know. But. It’s been my experience that you have one group who would care about value. And another group that would love to hear that putter or some of my others story. But at any rate you’d end up with two factions calling BS because Don Cameron didn’t certify the story.

> > >

> > > And lastly. It’s hilarious to watch the double talk come out here. Just a few posts up you yourself mention the market and why it is what it is. Now you literally say “ nobody cares what you have or what it’s worth “. The entire market you subscribe to works around the idea that everybody cares about what you have for sale or in a collection and what it’s worth. And this double talk folks is why I do not collect Cameron putters .

> >

> > I know reading posts on the internet has interpretation issues. This is NOT what I was getting at, at all. When I said "no one cares what you have" it was meant that the group is welcoming to people whether they have an OTR or handmade. Its about character, participation, openness, and if it comes with a cool story even better. There is no question the market is part of the hobby, but the collecting site is more than just the hobby. Honestly, jaded folks like you with an axe to grind would likely not feel welcomed. No one needs the negativity or presumptions you are bringing. Bye!

> >

> Again. I had very few posts. I brought nothing to that site. I just read a lot. I’m telling you what I took away. Not what I brought.

>

> Citing negative events that have happened over there isn’t bringing negativity. It’s just the opposite of covering up the negative behavior that has been widely known and reported from over there. I mean there are literally instances of coas / putter characteristics being changed etc. by inner circle folks over there. So please don’t lecture me about character and openness.

>

 

It is bringing negativity when you don't refer to any of the opposite. Every site and every forum will have questionable events and people. WRX is no exception. But carrying on about the site being shady, or the "crowd" being this or that, is petty. I'm not covering up anything. I've met some incredible people there and had amazing interactions online and in person at events.

When you are hurling distaste and stereotyping the lot I'll take issue and will defend those who I consider friends, and even those who aren't.

At the end of the day, this post is about the site and access. Its down now and may not come back. Happy?

[bladehunter]

> @bordercitygolfer said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > > > > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lol.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

> > > > > Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

> > > > > For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for bringing that up. I spent 0$ on that putter. It was placed in my care by a mentor who knew I’d appreciate it for what it is and where it’s been , Not what it’s worth. I knew that’s where you’d go. Perfect example of what I’m talking about over there. If a person in the inner circle owns that stick it’s for sale for $10k plus. But outsider like me has it and it’s “ hey bud that’s worthless and we don’t care what you have “. Perfect example.

> > > >

> > > > That sounds harsh I know. But. It’s been my experience that you have one group who would care about value. And another group that would love to hear that putter or some of my others story. But at any rate you’d end up with two factions calling BS because Don Cameron didn’t certify the story.

> > > >

> > > > And lastly. It’s hilarious to watch the double talk come out here. Just a few posts up you yourself mention the market and why it is what it is. Now you literally say “ nobody cares what you have or what it’s worth “. The entire market you subscribe to works around the idea that everybody cares about what you have for sale or in a collection and what it’s worth. And this double talk folks is why I do not collect Cameron putters .

> > >

> > > I know reading posts on the internet has interpretation issues. This is NOT what I was getting at, at all. When I said "no one cares what you have" it was meant that the group is welcoming to people whether they have an OTR or handmade. Its about character, participation, openness, and if it comes with a cool story even better. There is no question the market is part of the hobby, but the collecting site is more than just the hobby. Honestly, jaded folks like you with an axe to grind would likely not feel welcomed. No one needs the negativity or presumptions you are bringing. Bye!

> > >

> > Again. I had very few posts. I brought nothing to that site. I just read a lot. I’m telling you what I took away. Not what I brought.

> >

> > Citing negative events that have happened over there isn’t bringing negativity. It’s just the opposite of covering up the negative behavior that has been widely known and reported from over there. I mean there are literally instances of coas / putter characteristics being changed etc. by inner circle folks over there. So please don’t lecture me about character and openness.

> >

>

> It is bringing negativity when you don't refer to any of the opposite. Every site and every forum will have questionable events and people. WRX is no exception. But carrying on about the site being shady, or the "crowd" being this or that, is petty. I'm not covering up anything. I've met some incredible people there and had amazing interactions online and in person at events.

> When you are hurling distaste and stereotyping the lot I'll take issue and will defend those who I consider friends, and even those who aren't.

> At the end of the day, this post is about the site and access. Its down now and may not come back. Happy?

 

I am not at all including all people who are members there with my comments. If so I’d include myself in that. Which would make no sense. Obviously I’m speaking to the connection between the sites ownership and moderation, to the studio itself , in a concerted effort to control the market or at least affect it for their own gain at times. Maybe isolated times. But at times nonetheless. This site has no such niche market to control or personally profit from. Not in the way that site does.

 

 

[FEUO]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bordercitygolfer said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I’m sure it’s on purpose. A “ rebranding “ or cleansing of the collector history if you will.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Not in the least bit. There is a great deal of really good info there. Can't see any need to cleanse.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @976-Evil said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rumors from TCC heavy hitters that whatever it was--is gone. That's one way to "clean up."

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > They can always start over though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > So the site is officially gone?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Not gone like it will never come back. But gone as in all the historical threads are wiped out. I've been a member of other boards that switched servers or upgraded their website platform and lost everything. Had to start over from scratch.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I don't know this for certain though. Just passing along what I've heard.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If the people who run TCC were more transparent we'd know more. But then that crowd has never been transparent about anything.

> > > > > > > > > > What do you mean "crowd"? I've been a member for over 10 years and while I'd agree that transparency from some site leadership has a lot to be desired I get annoyed when folks refer to the "crowd" as anything. Its a diverse mix with good and questionable personalities. Like any and ALL web forums.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I mean their leadership is not transparent. I have no beef with rank and file members.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When the website for an internationally known consumer product is closed to being viewed by anyone but members that is a major red flag. And that is just a tiny fraction of their shadiness.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Membership is free. Its not closed, just sign up. Like any group on the internet there is pockets of shadyness and that exists in the FOV group and with some colluding amongst the moderators on private threads. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Not sure how Titleist/Acushnet could shut it down since they don't own it. Scotty has provided some guidance to Rand in the past but its pretty much been his for a few years. People think Scotty cares about TCC. He doesn't.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > lol.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Either you are part of the inner circle. Or.... very unaware of how it works.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I had been a member for several years ( 2014 I think ) but rare poster there. Mostly used it for reference. Etc. when I signed up I recall distinctly that it took 3-4 weeks for the login / membership to be approved. And required multiple email questions to get it on. And neither of those emails was responded too. There’s a thread around here now with people who haven’t been approved after 4-5 ( or maybe 6) months.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now for the fun part. I went by a different name over there. So unattached to any comment here. I posted a for sale ad on TCC and linked to my many positive feedbacks here .... about 2 weeks later my login wouldn’t work for TCC. No doubt due to the cross pollination of this site. As in they did some recon and discovered my disapproval of the way things go ( or went ) over there. No notice. No answering of emails , nothing. And I had literally zero discussions going. So wasn’t for a breach of conduct.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My point ? To act as if that was a free place to be for anyone is a joke. Easily one of the most heavily moderated , exclusive, exclusionary , purposefully obtuse , group of folks online I’ve come across. And that’s coming from a guy who is well versed in real Cameron Tour putters. Not the new from the gallery releases. Real sticks with real tour provenance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Definitely NOT in the inner circle, lol. I've been a member since 08. People who don't read rules, follow rules, and get their knickers in a twist over a free web forum are a joke.

> > > > > > Having a GSS with "provenance" means nothing. No one cares what you have. Its the folks who think that spending $ on Camerons means their a better collector or "know whats up" is hilarious to me.

> > > > > > For every person who has had their issues with the site moderation there are many more who have no problem with it. I keep my non-Scotty talk for PutterTalk. Its not difficult.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for bringing that up. I spent 0$ on that putter. It was placed in my care by a mentor who knew I’d appreciate it for what it is and where it’s been , Not what it’s worth. I knew that’s where you’d go. Perfect example of what I’m talking about over there. If a person in the inner circle owns that stick it’s for sale for $10k plus. But outsider like me has it and it’s “ hey bud that’s worthless and we don’t care what you have “. Perfect example.

> > > > >

> > > > > That sounds harsh I know. But. It’s been my experience that you have one group who would care about value. And another group that would love to hear that putter or some of my others story. But at any rate you’d end up with two factions calling BS because Don Cameron didn’t certify the story.

> > > > >

> > > > > And lastly. It’s hilarious to watch the double talk come out here. Just a few posts up you yourself mention the market and why it is what it is. Now you literally say “ nobody cares what you have or what it’s worth “. The entire market you subscribe to works around the idea that everybody cares about what you have for sale or in a collection and what it’s worth. And this double talk folks is why I do not collect Cameron putters .

> > > >

> > > > I know reading posts on the internet has interpretation issues. This is NOT what I was getting at, at all. When I said "no one cares what you have" it was meant that the group is welcoming to people whether they have an OTR or handmade. Its about character, participation, openness, and if it comes with a cool story even better. There is no question the market is part of the hobby, but the collecting site is more than just the hobby. Honestly, jaded folks like you with an axe to grind would likely not feel welcomed. No one needs the negativity or presumptions you are bringing. Bye!

> > > >

> > > Again. I had very few posts. I brought nothing to that site. I just read a lot. I’m telling you what I took away. Not what I brought.

> > >

> > > Citing negative events that have happened over there isn’t bringing negativity. It’s just the opposite of covering up the negative behavior that has been widely known and reported from over there. I mean there are literally instances of coas / putter characteristics being changed etc. by inner circle folks over there. So please don’t lecture me about character and openness.

> > >

> >

> > It is bringing negativity when you don't refer to any of the opposite. Every site and every forum will have questionable events and people. WRX is no exception. But carrying on about the site being shady, or the "crowd" being this or that, is petty. I'm not covering up anything. I've met some incredible people there and had amazing interactions online and in person at events.

> > When you are hurling distaste and stereotyping the lot I'll take issue and will defend those who I consider friends, and even those who aren't.

> > At the end of the day, this post is about the site and access. Its down now and may not come back. Happy?

>

> I am not at all including all people who are members there with my comments. If so I’d include myself in that. Which would make no sense. Obviously I’m speaking to the connection between the sites ownership and moderation, to the studio itself , in a concerted effort to control the market or at least affect it for their own gain at times. Maybe isolated times. But at times nonetheless. This site has no such niche market to control or personally profit from. Not in the way that site does.

>

>

 

Fair enough. When you said "crowd" that is an oft used term by others trashing the brand loyalists and enthusiasts. I like many putter makers. I have no strict allegiance. But I also think that people are naive to think that every successful CEO or business leader got to where they got to by playing nice and never controlling their destiny to some extent.

And as you said you didn't contribute so I didn't think you included yourself when you talked about the membership. There are many folks on WRX who think that by lurking on tcc that they had the inside scoop and weren't part of the crowd.

[Scotty1140]

> @Im_A_Savage said:

> > @976-Evil said:

> > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > @ckay said:

> > > > > @Im_A_Savage said:

> > > > > I'm shocked Scotty allows the website to be run like that. Given that Titleist/Acushnet could shut that site down overnight if they wanted to (due to intellectual property laws) he must tacitly approve of how it's run.

> > > >

> > > > How do you think Bill Vog got the keys to the site after it became an established community? Doug made it a great place to be and then Vog and the censorship ruined it all.

> > >

> > > I know the story well...

> > I don't, lets hear it lol

>

> There's a lot of info in this mind bending thread.

>

> https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/277979/scotty-cameron-classic-mini/p1

>

> And this thread from Putter Talk covers a lot of The Cameron Collector behind the scenes drama.

>

> https://puttertalk.com/community/threads/my-participation-in-cameron-collector.1963/

>

> Long story short, Doug Hardman started The Cameron Collector. Then later started Putter Talk. Scotty did not like the idea of the person running TCC also having a putter website that discussed other putter makers. Doug was forced (or strongly encouraged) to transfer TCC to Bill Vogeney, a well known Cameron collector and friend of Scotty's.

>

>

>

 

The classic mini thread is crazy. It's a long read, but well worth it.

[GeorgeHWB]

The site has been down over a month. They've made the recent golfwrx maintenance seem like a smooth project.

[Medson]

I do miss the drama days on TCC. Not sure if there are much drama nowadays, I've been away from golf ...

[BottleCap]

> @Medson said:

> I do miss the drama days on TCC. Not sure if there are much drama nowadays, I've been away from golf ...

It's really slow over there the past few years, a few members were banned or left and now most people seem to read.

 

[976-Evil]

still waiting on that hefer with cheese...

[jak77]

WOW. This thread just reminded me that I tried signing up months ago and never heard back...glad to hear Im not the only one.

[Medson]

I suppose I didn’t miss TCC until it’s kinda “gone”. Hope it’ll be back very very soon.

[Yanki01]

it's a shame it's taking this long and hopefully the site gets back to what it was. per their last tweet - it seems it has more to do with who's able to fix it is not moving fast enough. it's a great resource for all things SC. tons of collectors world wide with amazing collections. i've gained all my knowledge from there becoming a member over 10yrs ago.

[mguhler]

> @Yanki01 said:

> it's a shame it's taking this long and hopefully the site gets back to what it was. per their last tweet - it seems it has more to do with who's able to fix it is not moving fast enough. it's a great resource for all things SC. tons of collectors world wide with amazing collections. i've gained all my knowledge from there becoming a member over 10yrs ago.

 

Been excruciatingly long, but tons of work being done. We appreciate everyone's patience. At the moment, I do not have an ETA when the site will be back online.