side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[AKGator]

I built my track 5mm wider than my putter head. I’m using a short back stroke and full follow through, depending on length of putt. I didn’t worry about hitting sides initially; It forces you to stroke straight ahead. The test is when you remove the track . . .

My success rate was not as high yesterday but still much better than with traditional putting. I’m thrilled to be gaining confidence out on the course.

[jordan_mccomb]

Has anyone tried the biomech putter for side saddle? For me, the more I can get the ball in front and see both the putter head and hole or some distance in front of the ball, the better I putt. To me it feels very unnatural and awkward if the putter head gets too far back towards my feet and I can only look at the putter.

I feel like the way the shaft attaches to the head it would improve my sight lines.


 

[hardpan1]

> @jordan_mccomb said:

> Has anyone tried the biomech putter for side saddle? For me, the more I can get the ball in front and see both the putter head and hole or some distance in front of the ball, the better I putt. To me it feels very unnatural and awkward if the putter head gets too far back towards my feet and I can only look at the putter.

> I feel like the way the shaft attaches to the head it would improve my sight lines.

> 

>

 

I putt SS left handed but conventional RH (weird, I know) and yes, the head would be a good choice for SS...in it's current form, the shaft actually leans past the club face and would be difficult to hold imo...but, with the proper lean it would be a good head, excellent visual over the ball...it Is good as a arm lock putter.

[bluedot]

I went to the Champions Tour SAS Championship on Thursday at Prestonwood in Cary, NC and noticed that VJ Singh is using a Juan Putt, though still using it as a long putter from the side, of course. VJ has been on Juan Elizondo's website for many years endorsing the Speed Stik that Juan developed, and apparently he's been using the Juan Putt since at least The Masters this year. That's a pretty good endorsement, I think.

 

There were a half dozen or so seniors in the field still putting with an unanchored long putter, most famously Langer and McCarron because of the "controversy" as to whether or not they were anchoring. I must admit, I'm sort of baffled as to why none of them has given face on a try in tournament play; the best take on this, at least for me, is what Randy Haag said about it. Haag believes that it takes a year to completely master long putting with ANY new style, and lag putting for professionals is just everything. So Haag believes that we aren't likely to see somebody already out of Tour convert; it'll have to be a younger player, like a Dechambeau, who has putted that way from the beginning. I also read an article at some point that said that Grant Waite was going to putt face on on the Champions Tour; don't know if he ever did or not. The article also recounted that Tom Watson had scolded/made fun of Waite on a practice green for putting that way, which is disappointing, but certainly not surprising for Watson.

 

But still, it sort of surprises me that nobody, post anchoring ban, has done this; it's just SO much easier that long putting from the side. Someday, maybe...

[J_Tizzle]

Question for everyone. I've been strugling to find a 2 piece grip I like, so I was thinking about trying to make a 2 piece for myself. So if I understand the rules correctly, you can have a 2 piece grip, but the grips have to be round, right? So if I wanted to try a bigger grip, I could maybe get some of the Jumbo Max grips, cut one of them to about 5"-6" for the top grip, then put a hole in the other one to slide down further? I just think I'd like to try a larger grip.

 

Given the rules (can't have a flat side), I couldn't do this with like an old Superstroke 1.0, right?

 

Let me know your thoughts, or if you have any 2 piece recommendations.

[PreppySlapCut]

Correct. Two piece grip has to be round.

[J_Tizzle]

> @PreppySlapCut said:

> Correct. Two piece grip has to be round.

 

Thanks for the confirmation.

[deca10]

> @hardpan1 said:

> > @jordan_mccomb said:

> > Has anyone tried the biomech putter for side saddle? For me, the more I can get the ball in front and see both the putter head and hole or some distance in front of the ball, the better I putt. To me it feels very unnatural and awkward if the putter head gets too far back towards my feet and I can only look at the putter.

> > I feel like the way the shaft attaches to the head it would improve my sight lines.

> > 

> >

>

> I putt SS left handed but conventional RH (weird, I know) and yes, the head would be a good choice for SS...in it's current form, the shaft actually leans past the club face and would be difficult to hold imo...but, with the proper lean it would be a good head, excellent visual over the ball...it Is good as a arm lock putter.

 

 

 

Agreed, although I haven't used one (it will be here Friday), I messed around with one for 5min. a few years back in a store and used it side-saddle and it felt really good. I have been a bit back and forth the last two summers from side saddle to regular, and this will allow me to use the same putter regardless of how I want to putt. Looking forward to the experiment.

[zmosnot]

Old STX putter is one I’ve used.

[J_Tizzle]

> @zmosnot said:

> Old STX putter is one I’ve used.

 

This is one I used early on until I got the Bobby Grace ones. The quality is just top notch, plus the STX didn't come with a headcover, which drove me bananas.

[J_Tizzle]

So anyone have one of the LFI (Let's Face It) putters they'd be willing to sell? I foolishly sold my back up to BR61 and he refuses to sell it back to me, and he doesn't even side saddle with it...

 

If anyone has one please feel free to shoot me a DM.

[bluedot]

So here's a face on flaw and fix that I can't believe I didn't figure out before this:

 

Monday evening, a buddy and I spent about two hours practice putting, just randomly picking holes on the practice green and playing each other for a few dollars. An hour or so into the game, he asked, "Do you know that you don't have the ball centered on the clubface at address? Are you doing that on purpose?"

 

I was NOT doing that on purpose, of course, so we paused the game and worked on figuring out what I was doing, because I 100% thought that I WAS centered! (I was using a JuanPutt, which not only has a line, but also has a white stripe the exact width of the golf ball to help you line up correctly; it's one of the biggest advantages of that putter, IMO.) I would set up, and then he would step up and hold the putter exactly where I had it, and I would go behind and look down the line. And, of course, he was right; I had the ball slightly to the inside toward the heel. I was more or less stunned...

 

It took awhile, but we finally figured out how this was happening. I was lining up the putt while standing behind the ball, holding the putter in my left hand, with the putter completely soled and the ball centered perfectly. BUT as I then stepped around and into my address position, I was changing the shaft angle just slightly by lifting the heel just a bit off the ground and holding the shaft a little more vertically. The effect of this was to rotate the center of the putter slightly to the right, and effectively move the ball toward the heel. We're talking about fractions here, but we all know that fractions matter in putting.

 

So the fix was to make sure that when I was lining up from behind that I was holding the putter at exactly that slightly more vertical angle that I wanted to putt from, with the ball centered at that angle, and then to not allow the putter to move at all while I stepped around and into my address position, which was pretty simple to accomplish.

 

Instantly, putts felt more solid and the roll was farther and more true than it had been. I hadn't been putting poorly at all before, at least in the sense of not three putting, and I didn't have any sense that my putts didn't feel solid. But the next round after that, which happened to be a tournament round, the difference was dramatic. So just something to self-check if you like to hold your face on putter at a slightly more vertical angle with the heel a bit off the ground.

[Ripper212]

> @J-Tizzle said:

> So anyone have one of the LFI (Let's Face It) putters they'd be willing to sell? I foolishly sold my back up to BR61 and he refuses to sell it back to me, and he doesn't even side saddle with it...

>

> If anyone has one please feel free to shoot me a DM.

 

I have one - PM sent

[BigEx44]

> @bluedot said:

> So here's a face on flaw and fix that I can't believe I didn't figure out before this:

>

> Monday evening, a buddy and I spent about two hours practice putting, just randomly picking holes on the practice green and playing each other for a few dollars. An hour or so into the game, he asked, "Do you know that you don't have the ball centered on the clubface at address? Are you doing that on purpose?"

>

> I was NOT doing that on purpose, of course, so we paused the game and worked on figuring out what I was doing, because I 100% thought that I WAS centered! (I was using a JuanPutt, which not only has a line, but also has a white stripe the exact width of the golf ball to help you line up correctly; it's one of the biggest advantages of that putter, IMO.) I would set up, and then he would step up and hold the putter exactly where I had it, and I would go behind and look down the line. And, of course, he was right; I had the ball slightly to the inside toward the heel. I was more or less stunned...

>

> It took awhile, but we finally figured out how this was happening. I was lining up the putt while standing behind the ball, holding the putter in my left hand, with the putter completely soled and the ball centered perfectly. BUT as I then stepped around and into my address position, I was changing the shaft angle just slightly by lifting the heel just a bit off the ground and holding the shaft a little more vertically. The effect of this was to rotate the center of the putter slightly to the right, and effectively move the ball toward the heel. We're talking about fractions here, but we all know that fractions matter in putting.

>

> So the fix was to make sure that when I was lining up from behind that I was holding the putter at exactly that slightly more vertical angle that I wanted to putt from, with the ball centered at that angle, and then to not allow the putter to move at all while I stepped around and into my address position, which was pretty simple to accomplish.

>

> Instantly, putts felt more solid and the roll was farther and more true than it had been. I hadn't been putting poorly at all before, at least in the sense of not three putting, and I didn't have any sense that my putts didn't feel solid. But the next round after that, which happened to be a tournament round, the difference was dramatic. So just something to self-check if you like to hold your face on putter at a slightly more vertical angle with the heel a bit off the ground.

 

So you're now using Juan Putter instead of the Bobby Grace? Curious as to why.

[bluedot]

> @BigEx44 said:

> > @bluedot said:

> > So here's a face on flaw and fix that I can't believe I didn't figure out before this:

> >

> > Monday evening, a buddy and I spent about two hours practice putting, just randomly picking holes on the practice green and playing each other for a few dollars. An hour or so into the game, he asked, "Do you know that you don't have the ball centered on the clubface at address? Are you doing that on purpose?"

> >

> > I was NOT doing that on purpose, of course, so we paused the game and worked on figuring out what I was doing, because I 100% thought that I WAS centered! (I was using a JuanPutt, which not only has a line, but also has a white stripe the exact width of the golf ball to help you line up correctly; it's one of the biggest advantages of that putter, IMO.) I would set up, and then he would step up and hold the putter exactly where I had it, and I would go behind and look down the line. And, of course, he was right; I had the ball slightly to the inside toward the heel. I was more or less stunned...

> >

> > It took awhile, but we finally figured out how this was happening. I was lining up the putt while standing behind the ball, holding the putter in my left hand, with the putter completely soled and the ball centered perfectly. BUT as I then stepped around and into my address position, I was changing the shaft angle just slightly by lifting the heel just a bit off the ground and holding the shaft a little more vertically. The effect of this was to rotate the center of the putter slightly to the right, and effectively move the ball toward the heel. We're talking about fractions here, but we all know that fractions matter in putting.

> >

> > So the fix was to make sure that when I was lining up from behind that I was holding the putter at exactly that slightly more vertical angle that I wanted to putt from, with the ball centered at that angle, and then to not allow the putter to move at all while I stepped around and into my address position, which was pretty simple to accomplish.

> >

> > Instantly, putts felt more solid and the roll was farther and more true than it had been. I hadn't been putting poorly at all before, at least in the sense of not three putting, and I didn't have any sense that my putts didn't feel solid. But the next round after that, which happened to be a tournament round, the difference was dramatic. So just something to self-check if you like to hold your face on putter at a slightly more vertical angle with the heel a bit off the ground.

>

> So you're now using Juan Putter instead of the Bobby Grace? Curious as to why.

 

I went back to the JuanPutt, at least for awhile, primarily because of the putting track. I took a full month off from playing, even practice rounds, while I did a series of lessons and a swing rebuild, so I took the opportunity to do a ton of putting on the carpet at home, and I just really like what the putting track does for my stroke.

 

I'll also admit to being influenced by seeing Vijay Singh using a JuanPutt at the SAS senior tournament last month, even though he was using it as a long putter and not face on. I sort of figured that Singh could use anything he wanted to, and had chosen the JuanPutt, so I'd pull it back out for awhile.

 

I'm not sure where I'll settle in the spring, but I think I'll use the JuanPutt for the winter if only because of the track and the assistance it gives you in alignment.

[marmaduk]

Well, I just finished reading this thread and I want to thank everyone for their contribution. Especially, Bluedot and J-Tizzle. Also, I am shocked to see a 30+ page online chat not turn super nasty or political. Good job guys! lol

This has been a very informative thread and I’m looking forward to trying this new method. My putting has been atrocious as of late and I like the idea. I’ve actually putted looking at the cup SO for a few seasons now. I find I have better distance control.

I have some concerns regard cost of experimentation due to the lack of available putters so I’m throwing it out there. If anyone is looking to offload a side saddle putter send me a message. If not I may go with a cheap eBay make.

Cheers, Jeff

[jiujitsugolf]

I have a right handed side saddle putter on ebay right now for $30. It is a Taylor Made Ghost CLONE and is a left handed putter cross shafted for a right handed putter so the shaft doesn't hit you in the leg when you are making longer putter. here is the listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303422397110

[br61]

Ha, I just saw this. Hey, I led you to a nice one on Egay.

Right now, I'm experimenting with Armlock putter so if I do make a switch, I'll let you know. LFI has served me nicely though. I have practiced with side saddle stroke on putting clock but it just feel strange on longer putts.

[ncp10]

Hi Jeff,

I became interested in FO/SS putting after reading this thread. I started w/ an old ping belly putter I found at a Play it Again Sports store for a very few dollars. It was enough to make me want to get something better designed for FO putting, so I bought a new one from EdTheClubBuilder in Ebay for $109, custom length for my 6'4" body.

I diligently practice several hours a day on practice green for several weeks and started thinking I was getting somewhere, that is until I went out on a course that had very challenging greens. I stuck with it for about 6 rounds total over a month or two but things really weren't improving. As an inveterate yipper for some 20y, at least I wasn't yipping, so I continued to commit to FO/SS putting for the next several rounds. I finally turned the corner and began making putts. This didn't happen until I found a setup that works for me, and it's right hand quite low and such that the back of my right hand faces the target. This means I am PUSHING the putter back on the backswing and effectively PULLING the putter forward on the downswing. After lining up behind the ball I tilt the shaft to 90 degrees vertical. The left hand/wrist is hyperextended maximally to help reduce the chance of altering the putter face angle. For my last 3 rounds (I've only played 3x in the past 2 months due to weather) I've had very few 3 putts for a change and made some great birdies from different ranges.

I'm especially encouraged because as I say, the yips are gone, and that has made it worth the price of admission. I was putting left handed and was fair at it as an adaptation to the yips, but was never a great putter. I have reasonable hopes this method will continue to improve my putting game.

Further, even though the putter I bought was only $109 new, it does sport the 80 degree lie angle, perhaps has a bit too much loft at 3 degrees, but the loft angle is only a minor consideration compared to what it took to find a setup the works for me. The ball rolls very well and as I say I'm making putts which is the acid test. Here is what I bought and will continue to use, but this listing is for the left-handed version: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FACE-ON-2-BALL-PUTTER-LEFTY-WRAP-GRIP-CHOOSE-LENGTH-38-TO-44-SIDESADDLE/153110301223?hash=item23a615ca27:m:mh1zuWCJXiJhBAeeEL7lAnQ

[marmaduk]

Thank you for this. What a coincidence!

I found this thread because of EdTheClubMaker. I originally wanted an armlock putter to experiment with and was going to buy from him because of the price and customization. Then looking through his eBay store I saw he sold FO putters so I did some digging and here we are. lol

He sells one with an adjustable shaft. 38”-52”

Not legal but a cheap way to find your best set uphttps://www.ebay.com/itm/RIGHT-HAND-ADJUSTABLE-FACE-ON-OR-LONG-PUTTER-LENGTH-38-TO-52/163957737931?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190917065201%26meid%3D0f821d40ea7649308fc835adda64e056%26pid%3D101096%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D153110301223%26itm%3D163957737931%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c101096.m3021

[hardpan1]

Ping makes an adjustable length putter, as long as you don't change it during the round, you're good.

[marmaduk]

I thought it wasn’t allowed.

good to know.

[hardpan1]

"I thought it wasn't allowed" I think you're right...but I don't know how the old rule was worded (fixed?) When adjustable drivers became available it was changed to allow but not during a round.

[J_Tizzle]

Yeah I know the ping adjustable putters had some type of odd wrench to use. I have 0 idea if that means something to the legality of it all.

[J_Tizzle]

Right on man! I'm happy to help out however I can on the side saddle stuff.

 

I think it is the superior way to putt, I honestly do. I was so bad with a short putter and now I'm pretty decent, which is probably worth 3-4 putts a round at a minimum for me, so it really has helped me out beyond belief. I don't make a ton of putts outside 10ft, but inside 10ft I usually put a pretty solid roll on it and it at least stands a chance. I always say if they made my belly putter legal again I'd switch back, but I don't know if thats the case anymore really. The ONLY problems i have with side saddle putting are: 1) the options are limited, they really are, tons of putters will work side saddle, but very few actually designed to work that way and the ones that are can be on the expensive side, and 2) explaining to people it is legal.

[ncp10]

I don't get the sense fine tuning the length gets you much closer to performing at your best w/ this method. I went w/ 45", but honestly it could have been 42", 48" etc and this would have made no significant difference overall to adapting to using it.

[ncp10]

As a side point Jeff I use the FO putter I bought side-on when putts are over about 10-12' or so depending on my comfort level. I stand behind the ball to line up the putt as with FO pre-putt setup, then simply hold it in place while I move around into position to stroke it side-on. I found it quite easy to control distance for longer putts this way, and I get some benefit of lining up behind the ball, and for reasons I don't understand I don't have any yipping tendency even though its a similar action as with a claw grip on a short putter which can bring on a yip for me. As soon as I'm in range for a FO putt then it's FO from there.

[ncp10]

Here's a paste from an article about Dave Pelz encounter w/ FO putting guy. Note the comment in the 2nd to the last paragraph--I finally tried and committed to this ("The putter shaft was behind his right arm, so he was pulling the shaft, not pushing it") and that was when I started making putts after many many hours of diligent practice with other methods getting essentially nowhere for months. I think I am taking the putter head straight back on my intended line using that way of applying the right hand/arm than I was with other methods. I did use a training channel initially, but again other methods did not translate for me into making putts.

""An elderly gentleman walks into the Dave Pelz Short Game School in Boca Raton, Fla. It is a slow day, circa 1999. The man is uninvited, but he has something to show Pelz, whose work with high-profile PGA Tour players such as Phil Mickelson has made him golf’s top putting guru.

Pelz knows the drill. He has been through this before with amateur putting nuts, but because he’s not busy, he agrees to take a look. The old-timer takes his putter and stands facing the cup. Then he produces a sidesaddle-style stroke. Interesting, Pelz thinks. The man’s extended right arm grasps a longish putter on the front of the shaft so the back of his hand faces the hole, with one finger down the shaft like a pointer. His left hand presses the shaft against the right elbow. He bends over slightly, leans right so his head is over the intended putting line and splays his left foot out wide for counterbalance.

And then, like a machine, the old man pours in putt after putt after putt. Pelz puts him through a few of his golf-school drills. “He scored better than anyone we’d ever measured,” Pelz recalls. “The putter shaft was behind his right arm, so he was pulling the shaft, not pushing it. That was pretty unusual. He told me he never started a putt off-line. From what I saw, line was not a problem for him.”

Pelz says it remains the most efficient putting display he has ever witnessed. When they are done, Pelz tells his guest how impressed he is. The old man thanks Pelz and walks off.""

[bluedot]

I think one of two things, and maybe both, happen with the yips when you convert to face-on.

First, the mechanical problem of making a relatively precise, delicate motion with two hands while standing VERY STILL from a position best used for speed and power through movement is no longer in play. Getting both hands to work together in a full swing when the body is driving the swing is one thing; it's all together a different matter when it's ONLY the hands. Your right arm is just swinging back and forth in face on, AND there isn't any issue with movement, the wrists breaking down, etc. All of the other grips, left hand low, claw, saw, armlock, are all efforts to do the same thing, which is simplifying the hand movement, while still APPEARING to putt conventionally.

The other part for yippers, though, has to do with mental scar tissue. I think a lot of teachers over the years have said that there is a point where fixing the yips won't work; a drastic change is the only way. The belly putter was that, and so was the broomstick, with the grip changes that I referenced above being on the low end. The yips may start from a technical issue, but they become fear-based, and the fear largely goes away when expectations are changed and the scar tissue from yipped putts is not as relevant because of the change.

[bluedot]

I'm not sure what year this appeared, but I had read it a long time before I converted. It had stuck in my mind, as had comments from Johnny Miller about putting side saddle, because Pelz is a gear-head and so am I.

As to the grip described by Pelz, that's what Dechambeau was doing when he putted face on briefly before his putter was ruled non-conforming. I've tried it, and just cannot get comfortable; it's too easy and natural for my arm to swing "normally" and freely. But it's worth a try, obviously.