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Wedge search for firm/hardpan turf (Texas, etc)


pingnewbie

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What type of wedges are more suited to play on Texas hardpan? Never really experimented with bounces and grinds before and it's a tad overwhelming with all the options out there.

 

I like to think that I'm more on the shallow side and like to nip it. Prefer partial shots. I like to open the face except when the leading edge is exposed and sitting too high off the ground.

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Vokey SM7 L grind, been using L grind for years now here in central Tx. Shallow chipper as well.

Callaway Paradym 9* PX HZRDUS Gen4 Black 60 6.0

Callaway Paradym 15* - PX HZRDUS Gen4 Black 70 6.0

Callaway Rogue ST Pro 3 HB 20* - Tensei White 85 S

Callaway Rogue ST Pro 4-PW - DG 105 S300

Vokey SM9 50* - 54* - 58* - TT Wedge 

Odyssey White Hot OG 2 Ball


Titleist ProV1

 

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PING Glide with TS sole.

PING G400 Max 10.5° GD YS Nano Reloaded 6X                                            

TaylorMade SIM2 Max 16.5° 3HL Mitsubishi Diamana Kai'Li 70 X                                                       

Callaway V-Series 19° 5 wood Mitsubishi Diamana Kai'Li 80 S                                                         

PING G410 22°, 26° & 30° Hybrids KBS Steel Hybrid Shaft X                                               

Adams A4 Forged 7-PW Dynamic Gold AMT X100 D4                                                                        

Cleveland CBX 50°, 55° Dynamic Gold S400

Cleveland CBX Full Face 60° Dynamic Gold Tour Spinner

Odyssey 2-Ball Blade w/Triple Trac

Vice Pro Plus Lime

                                              

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What part of Texas? I’ve lived in DFW and Houston, and have done fine with my 58* having around 12* of bounce and a little bit of grind on the heel. I currently use the RTX4 wedges. My 58* is a 56* mid bent to 58*.

WITB
Driver: 10.5* Stealth 2 Plus set 1 click lower upright setting- Accra FX 2.0 270 M4 

Fairways & Hybrids: TM Stealth2 Plus 5 wood turned down to 17.25* (Motore F1 7s); 21* Callaway UW (Attas T2 8S); Adams Super 9031 23* (Recoil Prototype Utility 110 F4)
Irons: 5-PW Srixon ZX7 MKII (KBS 120 $ Taper)
Wedges: Tour Satin Cleveland RTX6 48* Mid bent to 49* and 52* bent to 54*;  RTX Zipcore Tour Rack Raw 56* Mid bent to 58* (All wedges with DGTI s400 shafts)

Putter: Toulon Las Vegas h4.5 or Kingston KP1 Carbon Oil Can (both with Stability Tour Black shafts)

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Agree with Mr. @SUPERG. The Vokey L or M (less extreme) are excellent for firm to hard surfaces.

Driver - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 5S

FW - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 6S

Hybrid - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 7S

Irons - ZX5 / C-Taper Lite S

Wedges - SM9 50/08 56/10 60/04

Putter - Odyssey Ai-One Milled #7 T

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Try looking at how the leading edge sits to the ground. You can play more bounce in hard pan ( I know. I have hard red clay ) if the leading edge is on the ground. Making truly less “ effective “ bounce.

 

I personally like a sand wedge to have more bounce stated. Then I’ll bend it 2 degrees strong to get the leading edge down. So buy a 56 and bend it to 54. That gives you more options. A low bounce L grind lob wedge coupled with an S or M grind sand bent strong gives loads of options.

Callaway epic max LS 9* GD-M9003 7x 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

srixon zx 19* elements 9F5T 

Cobra king SZ 25.5* KBS TD cat 5 70 

TM p7mc 5-pw Mmt125tx 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

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I do not believe you need a really low bounce wedge off hard pan. The grind matters a lot more. For me something like an M grind with 8 degrees bounce or a Cleveland RTX4 low, also 8 degrees. Margin for error is much better versus a 4 degree bounce wedge. Bounce does not cause poor shots off hard pan, it is all technique. Too much shaft lean is usually the problem or trying to use the leading edge to clip the ball off the hardpan, which is difficult to do consistently. If the leading edge is low on a wedge with mid-bounce, and you limit your wrist hinge on the backswing, I think these shots get a lot easier.

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5 w/Diamana TB 60S

PXG GEN6 5 wood w/Diamana S-plus 70 stiff

Yamaha RMX VD 7 wood w/Diamana S-plus 70 stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro hybrid (22) w/Aldila Tour Blue 85 stiff hybrid

Wilson Staff Model CB 5-G w/DG s300 shafts

Edel T grind 54 w/Nippon 125 wedge shaft

Fourteen RM-12 58 w/Dynamic Golds400

Axis1 Rose putter, 34 inches

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Vokey Links K is the gold standard if you can find one

Driver: Ping G410 LST (Diamana ZF)
5w:  Titleist TS2 (Ventus Blue)
3H: Titleist 818 H2 (Ventus Blue HB)
or 3i: Cobra King Utility 21* (Tour AD DI)
4-P: PXG 0311T (KBS $-Taper)
Wedges: 51* Edel TRP, 55* Edel DVR, 60* Cally MD5
Putter: PXG Mini Gunboat H

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> @pingnewbie said:

> > @jah7838 said:

> > What part of Texas? I’ve lived in DFW and Houston, and have done fine with my 58* having around 12* of bounce and a little bit of grind on the heel. I currently use the RTX4 wedges. My 58* is a 56* mid bent to 58*.

>

> DFW but I play cheap cheap dried out courses :)

>

 

I definitely don’t play fancy courses, lol. Played Riverchase in Coppell yesterday afternoon and had no issues with the dry hard ground with my RTX4.

 

I also get pretty steep at times, so the extra bounce is helpful to me. I had the 58* mid RTX4, and was not as consistent as I am with the 56* bent to 58*.

 

WITB
Driver: 10.5* Stealth 2 Plus set 1 click lower upright setting- Accra FX 2.0 270 M4 

Fairways & Hybrids: TM Stealth2 Plus 5 wood turned down to 17.25* (Motore F1 7s); 21* Callaway UW (Attas T2 8S); Adams Super 9031 23* (Recoil Prototype Utility 110 F4)
Irons: 5-PW Srixon ZX7 MKII (KBS 120 $ Taper)
Wedges: Tour Satin Cleveland RTX6 48* Mid bent to 49* and 52* bent to 54*;  RTX Zipcore Tour Rack Raw 56* Mid bent to 58* (All wedges with DGTI s400 shafts)

Putter: Toulon Las Vegas h4.5 or Kingston KP1 Carbon Oil Can (both with Stability Tour Black shafts)

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This is outside of wedges, but a hybrid is good for chipping off of moon-crater lies.

Here in St. Louis area, a really wet summer leads to fluff-and-dirt mottling around greens on low part of courses: If you have 95 degrees and sunny, rain, 95 degrees and sunny, rain... fungus can start which leave irregular turf in its wake until a few weeks of cool September.

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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> @dmeeksDC said:

> I do not believe you need a really low bounce wedge off hard pan. The grind matters a lot more. For me something like an M grind with 8 degrees bounce or a Cleveland RTX4 low, also 8 degrees. Margin for error is much better versus a 4 degree bounce wedge. Bounce does not cause poor shots off hard pan, it is all technique. Too much shaft lean is usually the problem or trying to use the leading edge to clip the ball off the hardpan, which is difficult to do consistently. If the leading edge is low on a wedge with mid-bounce, and you limit your wrist hinge on the backswing, I think these shots get a lot easier.

 

Most of the wedges on the market these days have leading edges that are far too high. Almost all are at least .275 and many are over .300. Can’t get correct grooves to ball unless you shove hands forward which creates steep. The tools train a lot of bad technique.

 

 

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I really like Eye 2 style for firm lies. It’s a love it or hate it wedge though.

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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... I think you should always use as much bounce as you can effectively play. I play the D Grind with my SM7 here in Chicago with the soft conditions and thick rough around the greens. But I spent the winter in Phoenix last year with similar conditions to Texas and I had to pick up an SM6 with the M Grind. It worked much better off the hard pan and in the sandless bunkers.

Driver:       TM Qi10 ... Ventus Velocore Red 5R
Fairway:    Cobra Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:    Ping G430 22* ... Alta CB Black 70r
                  TM Dhy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r

Irons:         Titleist T200 '23 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:    Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:       Cobra King Sport-60
Ball:            2023 Maxfli Tour

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I play on a lot of thin bernuda with Sandy soil in Central Florida and was having a terrible time transitioning here from the lush conditions I left in Virginia. Tight, grainy lies we're grabbing my high bounce, wide sole wedges (Vokey K, and Glide WS). I switched to the RTX4 low, and could not begin to tell you what a difference it has made. I've also played the Vokey L grind, but the Cleveland provides the same precision but with so much more room for error.

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> @bladehunter said:

> Try looking at how the leading edge sits to the ground. You can play more bounce in hard pan ( I know. I have hard red clay ) if the leading edge is on the ground. Making truly less “ effective “ bounce.

>

> I personally like a sand wedge to have more bounce stated. Then I’ll bend it 2 degrees strong to get the leading edge down. So buy a 56 and bend it to 54. That gives you more options. A low bounce L grind lob wedge coupled with an S or M grind sand bent strong gives loads of options.

 

I think blade has the best solution if you can find it, a decent amount of bounce along with the leading edge that sits down. The bounce has to be in the right places. It's the reason I think the original Eye 2 wedges were and are so esteemed to this day. I still play them. They have bounce in all the right places and that bounce still helps on hardpan when you come in to the ground a little early. This type of wedge is money out of any type of sand also. The old Cleveland DSG wedges perform similarly for me. I played the DSGs for a few years and went back to the old Eye 2 wedges this summer. You can hit great shots of the firm stuff with a low bounce wedge, but if you miss, it's bad. A little more bounce with a low leading edge will turn a miss into at least a serviceable shot a lot of times.

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> @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> > @dmeeksDC said:

> > I do not believe you need a really low bounce wedge off hard pan. The grind matters a lot more. For me something like an M grind with 8 degrees bounce or a Cleveland RTX4 low, also 8 degrees. Margin for error is much better versus a 4 degree bounce wedge. Bounce does not cause poor shots off hard pan, it is all technique. Too much shaft lean is usually the problem or trying to use the leading edge to clip the ball off the hardpan, which is difficult to do consistently. If the leading edge is low on a wedge with mid-bounce, and you limit your wrist hinge on the backswing, I think these shots get a lot easier.

>

> Most of the wedges on the market these days have leading edges that are far too high. Almost all are at least .275 and many are over .300. Can’t get correct grooves to ball unless you shove hands forward which creates steep. The tools train a lot of bad technique.

>

>

I agree with you, but it is just as true that a lot of players never get taught the easiest way to play the shot. It is true the leading edge can vary quite a bit. I like how the RTX4 58 low sits. Seems easier with that wedge than others I have tried. The Mizuno S5 was another one that worked well for me. The Vokey M grinds I also like. And one more that doesn’t often get mentioned. The Ben Hogan Ft. Worth wedges are really compact and have a nice look. Very nimble.

 

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5 w/Diamana TB 60S

PXG GEN6 5 wood w/Diamana S-plus 70 stiff

Yamaha RMX VD 7 wood w/Diamana S-plus 70 stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro hybrid (22) w/Aldila Tour Blue 85 stiff hybrid

Wilson Staff Model CB 5-G w/DG s300 shafts

Edel T grind 54 w/Nippon 125 wedge shaft

Fourteen RM-12 58 w/Dynamic Golds400

Axis1 Rose putter, 34 inches

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Go do a fitting with Edel. They have unbelievable grinds for tight lies.

Callaway Epic Flash 9 degree with Hzrdus Smoke 70 stiff
Callaway Epic Flash 5 wood (-1) with AD-TP 7S
Callaway Epic 3 and 4 hybrid with Graphite Design AD-DI 85S
Callaway X-Forged with Nippon Modus 105X 
Edel 51, 56, 60 wedges with KBS 610 stiff shafts
Scotty Cameron NP2
Ball: Titleist ProV1x

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> @jah7838 said:

> > @pingnewbie said:

> > > @jah7838 said:

> > > What part of Texas? I’ve lived in DFW and Houston, and have done fine with my 58* having around 12* of bounce and a little bit of grind on the heel. I currently use the RTX4 wedges. My 58* is a 56* mid bent to 58*.

> >

> > DFW but I play cheap cheap dried out courses :)

> >

>

> I definitely don’t play fancy courses, lol. Played Riverchase in Coppell yesterday afternoon and had no issues with the dry hard ground with my RTX4.

>

> I also get pretty steep at times, so the extra bounce is helpful to me. I had the 58* mid RTX4, and was not as consistent as I am with the 56* bent to 58*.

>

 

Slight threadjack, how is Riverchase these days? I used to play it a few times a year as it was close to the office. I haven't played in it about 3-4 years. The conditions were getting pretty bad and I heard they got worse. But they had dirt cheap golf on their email package with lunch and a beer included...

PING G430 Max 10.5 

Cleveland Launcher XL Hy-wood 18*
Cleveland Launcher XL Halo 4H

Cleveland XL Halo 5H

Srixon MKii ZX5s 6-PW Modus 105s

Cleveland CBX4 Zipcore 48*

Cleveland CBX4 Zipcore 52*
Cleveland CBX4 Zipcore 56*

PXG Battle Ready 'Bat Attack' 

 

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Nothing but love for the L Grind from me. I will switch it out for something with more bounce in the winter (it also saves the grooves) but in normal conditions, the L Grind Vokey is just superb. Up there with the driver as being my favourite club in the bag.

Titleist TSR2 8.25* Project X EvenFlow T1100 White 6.0
Titleist TSR3 15* Project X Hzrdus Smoke RBX 6.0
Titleist U505 3 Iron Project X Hzrdus Smoke RBX 6.0
Titleist T200/T150 4-PW KBS Tour Stiff
Titleist Vokey SM9 50.08F, 54.12D (Raw) & 60.04L (Raw) True Temper S200
Scotty Cameron Futura 5S
ProV1 2023

 

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> @bladehunter said:

> Try looking at how the leading edge sits to the ground. You can play more bounce in hard pan ( I know. I have hard red clay ) if the leading edge is on the ground. Making truly less “ effective “ bounce.

>

> I personally like a sand wedge to have more bounce stated. Then I’ll bend it 2 degrees strong to get the leading edge down. So buy a 56 and bend it to 54. That gives you more options. A low bounce L grind lob wedge coupled with an S or M grind sand bent strong gives loads of options.

 

I used to never agree with this until I watched the most recent TXG video compared wedge launch and spin for 40 and 70 yard shots of low and high bounce wedges, on both soft and firm turf conditions. Oddly enough, the high bounce wedge actually spun more, which... I guess isn't that odd if you stop and think why (lower contact on the face).

 

As long as you don't open the face a huge amount and play a lot of square faced pitches, I think you can still play higher bounce wedges and it may actually be beneficial. I'm actually now considering trying to find a higher bounce 64 degree that I can play square faced out of my firmer-ish bunkers.

 

 

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I look for a low-to-the-ground and less rounded leading edge with decent heel relief for opening it up. Off hardpan you can play a wedge that would normally dig and get away with it.

 

I saw someone mention Cobra's earlier, that's what's in my bag also.

"Of all the hazards, fear is the worst" - Sam Snead
WITB: PXG 0311 ~ Ping Anser 4w @16.5 ~ Cobra F6 Baffler @18.5 ~ Titleist T300 4-P ~ Titleist Vokey 48, 54, 58 ~ Cleveland HB 8

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I just switched to the Cleveland CBX2 wedges. My opinion is that these wedges can be hit out of/off of any surface and will perform excellently. While they aren't the thinnest girls around, they sure know how to handle balls better then you'd believe.

Driver: TaylorMade SIM 8* (standard setting) with MCA Tensei AV Raw Orange 75TX at 44.5"
3W: TaylorMade M5 15* (standard setting) with Oban Devotion 8 O5 at 42"
Hybrid: PXG Gen 2 0317X 19* (standard setting) with Oban Kiyoshi Purple Hybrid O5 at 39.5"
4i-9i: Callaway '18 Apex MB's with KBS C-Taper 130X at 1/4" long
46: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
50: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
54: Callaway JAWS MD5 8C
58: Callaway JAWS MD5 8W
Putter: Kari Lajosi Custom DD201WB

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