Wedge search for firm/hardpan turf (Texas, etc)

[cmagnusson]

> @Celebros said:

> I love my Cobra wedges in their WideLow grind off of hard turf.

 

+1, Cobra wedges with their versatile grind (TriBounce as they called it on the older clubs) are unreal good on hardpan.

[bladehunter]

> @Z1ggy16 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Try looking at how the leading edge sits to the ground. You can play more bounce in hard pan ( I know. I have hard red clay ) if the leading edge is on the ground. Making truly less “ effective “ bounce.

> >

> > I personally like a sand wedge to have more bounce stated. Then I’ll bend it 2 degrees strong to get the leading edge down. So buy a 56 and bend it to 54. That gives you more options. A low bounce L grind lob wedge coupled with an S or M grind sand bent strong gives loads of options.

>

> I used to never agree with this until I watched the most recent TXG video compared wedge launch and spin for 40 and 70 yard shots of low and high bounce wedges, on both soft and firm turf conditions. Oddly enough, the high bounce wedge actually spun more, which... I guess isn't that odd if you stop and think why (lower contact on the face).

>

> As long as you don't open the face a huge amount and play a lot of square faced pitches, I think you can still play higher bounce wedges and it may actually be beneficial. I'm actually now considering trying to find a higher bounce 64 degree that I can play square faced out of my firmer-ish bunkers

 

You wouldn’t believe the people who’ve asked me “ how do you get that much check on short shots. “. And I tell them and then they don’t believe me. Lol. Truthfully. It’s a fine line. I’ve had wedges I couldn’t get to roll out 6 inches of my life depended on it. I’d picture a landing spot and hit that. And the ball would hit and die. Or at times side sauce ( Philism) one way or another. You have to pick a combo of wedge and ball to get what you want.

I actually agree. I don’t want huge bounce and a high leading edge. But. I don’t prefer low bounce and a low leading edge always either. Especially on rainy days. Pm grind is the perfect in between wedge in my opinion. And I can clip the legs out from under a ball from the cartpath if I want to. It’s all about speed at the bottom and where your weight is. I’m interested in the new eye 2 lob myself. Maybe a 62 ish loft.

[Z1ggy16]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Try looking at how the leading edge sits to the ground. You can play more bounce in hard pan ( I know. I have hard red clay ) if the leading edge is on the ground. Making truly less “ effective “ bounce.

> > >

> > > I personally like a sand wedge to have more bounce stated. Then I’ll bend it 2 degrees strong to get the leading edge down. So buy a 56 and bend it to 54. That gives you more options. A low bounce L grind lob wedge coupled with an S or M grind sand bent strong gives loads of options.

> >

> > I used to never agree with this until I watched the most recent TXG video compared wedge launch and spin for 40 and 70 yard shots of low and high bounce wedges, on both soft and firm turf conditions. Oddly enough, the high bounce wedge actually spun more, which... I guess isn't that odd if you stop and think why (lower contact on the face).

> >

> > As long as you don't open the face a huge amount and play a lot of square faced pitches, I think you can still play higher bounce wedges and it may actually be beneficial. I'm actually now considering trying to find a higher bounce 64 degree that I can play square faced out of my firmer-ish bunkers

>

> You wouldn’t believe the people who’ve asked me “ how do you get that much check on short shots. “. And I tell them and then they don’t believe me. Lol. Truthfully. It’s a fine line. I’ve had wedges I couldn’t get to roll out 6 inches of my life depended on it. I’d picture a landing spot and hit that. And the ball would hit and die. Or at times side sauce ( Philism) one way or another. You have to pick a combo of wedge and ball to get what you want.

> I actually agree. I don’t want huge bounce and a high leading edge. But. I don’t prefer low bounce and a low leading edge always either. Especially on rainy days. Pm grind is the perfect in between wedge in my opinion. And I can clip the legs out from under a ball from the cartpath if I want to. It’s all about speed at the bottom and where your weight is. I’m interested in the new eye 2 lob myself. Maybe a 62 ish loft.

 

Yep, I never got pitches of like 30 yards to 1 check stop until I switched to my slightly higher bounce hi toe. First time I did it, I thought I skulled the ball because it felt a touch thin and it flew about 10 feet high for the flight... but nope, landed about 3 feet from pin, hopped once and dead stopped. I always played 8* vokey's and it always seemed to slide under the ball and was more of a high soft flight that would roll out a decent amount.

 

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

Looks like Mizuno is offering the T20 in 56°/6° M grind (subtle M - whatever that means). At 56° it would be one of the lowest bounce non-wide sole options available. It also provides the opportunity to go really low by bending it strong (as advocated by @bladehunter ) to 54°/4° for a really low bounce option. Food for thought.

[jah7838]

> @mantan said:

> > @jah7838 said:

> > > @pingnewbie said:

> > > > @jah7838 said:

> > > > What part of Texas? I’ve lived in DFW and Houston, and have done fine with my 58* having around 12* of bounce and a little bit of grind on the heel. I currently use the RTX4 wedges. My 58* is a 56* mid bent to 58*.

> > >

> > > DFW but I play cheap cheap dried out courses :)

> > >

> >

> > I definitely don’t play fancy courses, lol. Played Riverchase in Coppell yesterday afternoon and had no issues with the dry hard ground with my RTX4.

> >

> > I also get pretty steep at times, so the extra bounce is helpful to me. I had the 58* mid RTX4, and was not as consistent as I am with the 56* bent to 58*.

> >

>

> Slight threadjack, how is Riverchase these days? I used to play it a few times a year as it was close to the office. I haven't played in it about 3-4 years. The conditions were getting pretty bad and I heard they got worse. But they had dirt cheap golf on their email package with lunch and a beer included...

 

I avoided this course because of how bad I heard it was. We paid $22 for the round and it was worth that. Greens were in good shape, and most of the fairways were as well. There were some fairways that were really dry and cracked. I liked the layout of the place and would play it again for that $20 range. If lunch was included, I’d pay $30.

[bunta]

sometimes i feel like an idiot because all i look at are titleist vokeys (call it brand matching/ or being materialistic or wahtever you want). I dont even bother looking into other wedges when they can clearly better suit my chip/pitch technique - i would never know, because im not able to demo them. And vokey demos are pretty much what most courses carry so the convenience there is another plus; you get to test them. I wish i could test all wedges on real turf as opposed to store carpet.

[Fort Worth Pro]

I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

[BigD]

Or get some custom wedges from Artisan in Fort Worth. Amazing experience and wedges that will be better than anything you will find at retail. :)

[OrangeGravy]

> @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

 

Did you measure them square and open?

[Fort Worth Pro]

> @OrangeGravy said:

> > @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> > I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

>

> Did you measure them square and open?

 

Just measured square. Measuring open gets tough because of the variables in how open do you get it to measure and making sure they are all the same to get a consistent measurement.

 

 

[Cruisin1966]

> @BigD said:

> Or get some custom wedges from Artisan in Fort Worth. Amazing experience and wedges that will be better than anything you will find at retail. :)

 

Great idea, not as simple as you're making it sound. Hopefully those of us who have been waiting more than two years will get our chance.

[PowderedToastMan]

> @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

 

Interesting that the TS grind sits so low considering how much leading edge bounce it has. I personally think it’s the perfect grind. Excellent off tight lies, but forgiving off soft turf. Surprised it doesn’t get more use to be honest, especially by the PING staff.

 

 

[Fort Worth Pro]

 

 

 

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> > @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> > I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

>

> Interesting that the TS grind sits so low considering how much leading edge bounce it has. I personally think it’s the perfect grind. Excellent off tight lies, but forgiving off soft turf. Surprised it doesn’t get more use to be honest, especially by the PING staff.

>

>

 

That front bounce has little to no effect on the leading edge height because the wedge isn’t sitting there. It’s resting more on the back portion. That’s where geometry comes in more than bounce angle.

 

 

[PowderedToastMan]

> @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

>

>

>

> > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> > > I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

> >

> > Interesting that the TS grind sits so low considering how much leading edge bounce it has. I personally think it’s the perfect grind. Excellent off tight lies, but forgiving off soft turf. Surprised it doesn’t get more use to be honest, especially by the PING staff.

> >

> >

>

> That front bounce has little to no effect on the leading edge height because the wedge isn’t sitting there. It’s resting more on the back portion. That’s where geometry comes in more than bounce angle.

>

>

Which is exactly why it’s interesting!

 

[ThinkingPlus]

So this might be a slight threadjack, but still somewhat pertinent to the topic at hand. Do geometric features other than bounce angle affect the necessary shaft lean+AoA to give a flush leading edge near impact?

[1Mordrid1]

I play in Phoenix, and it does not get much firmer than here during the summer. The Mack Daddy PM Grind 19 is so versatile that you can play it of off many different lies.

[wam78]

I also play in DFW and deal with hard pan. This season I picked up some Scratch wedges on the bst that were brand new. One of the grinds I was the most nervous about but ended up being a game changer was the 58* PWE grind. Has high effective bounce with a very low leading edge. It is the first high effective bounce lob wedge I’ve played. Long chip shots hop and check like never before. Changed my thought process with wedges and shots around the green.

[Fort Worth Pro]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> So this might be a slight threadjack, but still somewhat pertinent to the topic at hand. Do geometric features other than bounce angle affect the necessary shaft lean+AoA to give a flush leading edge near impact?

 

Camber and width play a huge role as well as sole shape. Really depends what part of the sole the wedge is sitting on as well. Many wedges actually sit on the trail edge past the C

 

 

[PopeofTexas]

I play in N. Texas on a lot of hard pan/tight lies and I’ve had good luck with my MD4 58/10 S grind. I play it on nearly all shots around the green and I love to play it off a tight fairway lie. I like the leading edge on the ground, play it back in my stance, hands and weight forward and just hit the ball first. It always checks up and it’s a fun shot.

[Joelsim]

Check out the Callaway Jaws W Low grind. Could be just what you’re looking for.

[Trying4Better]

> @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

 

Curious what the actual measurement of the rtx4 56 was? And curious what the rtx4 58 and 60 x-low is? All of us here in NTX are curious!

[Jut]

> @Trying4Better said:

> > @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> > I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

>

> Curious what the actual measurement of the rtx4 56 was? And curious what the rtx4 58 and 60 x-low is? All of us here in NTX are curious!

 

Also, guessing the Ping Glide 3.0 58 at .236 was the TS grind?

[pingnewbie]

Yes the Glide was a 58 at .236 - I followed up

[Fort Worth Pro]

> @Trying4Better said:

> > @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> > I went and got some leading edge heights measured. Cleveland rtx4 56 low bounce is an absolute Links grind. Sits super low. Almost too low. It better be firm and you better be shallow. Ping glide 58 3.0 sits very low at .236 also in the range of links grinds. The two vokey’s mentikned here are tall. L grind sits at .285 and the M sits at .290. Ping glide eye 2 sits at .305. Not a Links grind at all. Wouldn’t even attempt it.

>

> Curious what the actual measurement of the rtx4 56 was? And curious what the rtx4 58 and 60 x-low is? All of us here in NTX are curious!

 

Actual measurement of the Cleveland 56 low was .216. The 58xlow was .212-.213. The 58 low was .210.

 

Those are super super low links grinds. Not sure I would suggest anything quite that low to folks unless they are playing links golf consistently.

 

The lowest jaws I could find were up around .270.

 

 

[pingnewbie]

For those counting at home:

.305 Glide Eye 2

.290 Vokey M

.285 Vokey L

.270 Jaws

 

.236 Glide 3.0 58 TS

.216 RTX 4.0 56 Low

.212 RTX 4.0 58 X Low

.210 RTX 4.0 58 Low

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

I play in Texas, AZ, and CA and often encounter hardpan. Any low-bounce wedge works fine but low-bounce requires practice to ensure proper execution. That said, mid-high bounce wedges work fine too, you just have to practice to learn how to use them on hardpan.

[dciccoritti]

> @pingnewbie said:

> For those counting at home:

> .305 Glide Eye 2

> .290 Vokey M

> .285 Vokey L

> .270 Jaws

>

> .236 Glide 3.0 58 TS

> .216 RTX 4.0 56 Low

> .212 RTX 4.0 58 X Low

> .210 RTX 4.0 58 Low

>

>

 

Wondering if you know what the height is for the Vokey S and F grinds? Appreciate the info. I've got the RTX 4's and they sit very low....even the FULL grinds.

 

 

[Fort Worth Pro]

> @dciccoritti said:

> > @pingnewbie said:

> > For those counting at home:

> > .305 Glide Eye 2

> > .290 Vokey M

> > .285 Vokey L

> > .270 Jaws

> >

> > .236 Glide 3.0 58 TS

> > .216 RTX 4.0 56 Low

> > .212 RTX 4.0 58 X Low

> > .210 RTX 4.0 58 Low

> >

> >

>

> Wondering if you know what the hight is for the Vokey S and F grinds? Appreciate the info. I've got the RTX 4's and they sit very low....even the FULL grinds.

>

>

 

I don’t know those. I’ve just taken the ones over that people had recommended as good hardpan/firm condition wedges and had them measured.

 

 

[buckethat72]

Bounce is your friend!!

[Oknows]

> @ChrisO72 said:

> Bounce is your friend!!

 

Have you played on a Texas course during the summer after 2 months of no rain?