Tour pros & their Vokeys

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @mocokid said:

> > Scratch wedges are better.

>

> We're better unless you still have extras. Wore mine out just after they went under unfortunately

 

You still have the options of NCW and Artisan for those types of wedges. It's not like you're completely out of luck.

[Krt22]

> @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @mocokid said:

> > > Scratch wedges are better.

> >

> > We're better unless you still have extras. Wore mine out just after they went under unfortunately

>

> You still have the options of NCW and Artisan for those types of wedges. It's not like you're completely out of luck.

 

Just be ready to pay the piper.

[mocokid]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @mocokid said:

> > Scratch wedges are better.

>

> We're better unless you still have extras. Wore mine out just after they went under unfortunately

 

check the bay that's where I got my 56 & 60

[mocokid]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @Soloman1 said: :D

> > Hey, I was just mimicking your gross rewrite of what I said. Do you think I was serious about PGA Superstores?

> >

> > Again, you have completely misunderstood about the heads.

> >

> > "Vokey procuring[sic] forged blanks..." Are you drunk?

> >

> > And I'm done. I'm not being sucked into this black hole where nonsense is so strong that sanity can't escape.

>

> Solly you are smart enough to know you can not argue with some people---- But I did give you 2 likes-- Older read non conforming 252s and 256s were forged and I can feel the difference hitting them. Guess that is why I keep a few around

 

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @Soloman1 said:

> > Hey, I was just mimicking your gross rewrite of what I said. Do you think I was serious about PGA Superstores?

> >

> > Again, you have completely misunderstood about the heads.

> >

> > "Vokey procuring[sic] forged blanks..." Are you drunk?

> >

> > And I'm done. I'm not being sucked into this black hole where nonsense is so strong that sanity can't escape.

>

> Solly you are smart enough to know you can not argue with some people---- But I did give you 2 likes-- Older read non conforming 252s and 256s were forged and I can feel the difference hitting them. Guess that is why I keep a few around

 

Hey Stu, you don't change them when they have a few tiny scratches the way the rest of us WRXers do? You're likely losing 0000011% of spin on your shots. :D

[Pepperturbo]

Remember, next to putters, wedges are the most used clubs on the PGA Tour. For that reason, Tour players replace wedges multiple times per year. A few players with contracts have been known to replace them every two-three months. However, if a tour player uses forged wedges they are replaced more often because the sole and grooves wear quite fast with excessive use; cast not so much. I played forged for years before switching to Vokey SM6 when they were introduced; still have them in the bag too, even though I practice near daily with the LW.

 

Last but just as important. Even though wedge grooves wear a good player can still spin the ball. Spin is about how you impact the ball and speed.

[BIG STU]

> @Mitchell said:

> > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > @Soloman1 said:

> > > Hey, I was just mimicking your gross rewrite of what I said. Do you think I was serious about PGA Superstores?

> > >

> > > Again, you have completely misunderstood about the heads.

> > >

> > > "Vokey procuring[sic] forged blanks..." Are you drunk?

> > >

> > > And I'm done. I'm not being sucked into this black hole where nonsense is so strong that sanity can't escape.

> >

> > Solly you are smart enough to know you can not argue with some people---- But I did give you 2 likes-- Older read non conforming 252s and 256s were forged and I can feel the difference hitting them. Guess that is why I keep a few around

>

> Stu,

> The wedges you mention were also cast out of 8620, yet had a slightly different heat treating process, or rather lack thereof, and chrome layer finish process, especially differing in the satin tour chrome finish ones- those factors led to different sound/feel, not forging vs cast.

 

I have a couple of 252s that belonged to Dicky Pride when he was a tour staffer for Titleist. Would not belive how I got them--- They were in a bag of junky clubs in the trunk of a junked car. That was a weird find that is the same bag I found the 905R driver and Scotty Newport in. What was so weird was they were in a SM Titleist stand bag. Those 4 clubs were the only clubs worth a hoot in the bag. The wedges were stamped DP. I sorta did some research and figured whose maybe they were. I know Dicky and he was down here the next year at the Monday after The Masters event I took them over and he confirmed that they were one of his sets and they were forged. He did not know which set they were as he had several in that line. I told him how I got them and he thought I was shooting him a line of BS especially on the Newport.

[BIG STU]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Remember, next to putters, wedges are the most used clubs on the PGA Tour. For that reason, Tour players replace wedges multiple times per year. A few players with contracts have been known to replace them every two-three months. However, if a tour player uses forged wedges they are replaced more often because the sole and grooves wear quite fast with excessive use; cast not so much. I played forged for years before switching to Vokey SM6 when they were introduced; still have them in the bag too, even though I practice near daily with the LW.

>

> Last but just as important. Even though wedge grooves wear a good player can still spin the ball. Spin is about how you impact the ball and speed.

 

That last line says it all--- People wonder how I spin short irons so much---- I hit a trap cut as a anti hook measure--- Now I do lose some distance with the trap cut on the irons but I spin the crap out of it

[Mitchell]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @Mitchell said:

> > > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > > @Soloman1 said:

> > > > Hey, I was just mimicking your gross rewrite of what I said. Do you think I was serious about PGA Superstores?

> > > >

> > > > Again, you have completely misunderstood about the heads.

> > > >

> > > > "Vokey procuring[sic] forged blanks..." Are you drunk?

> > > >

> > > > And I'm done. I'm not being sucked into this black hole where nonsense is so strong that sanity can't escape.

> > >

> > > Solly you are smart enough to know you can not argue with some people---- But I did give you 2 likes-- Older read non conforming 252s and 256s were forged and I can feel the difference hitting them. Guess that is why I keep a few around

> >

> > Stu,

> > The wedges you mention were also cast out of 8620, yet had a slightly different heat treating process, or rather lack thereof, and chrome layer finish process, especially differing in the satin tour chrome finish ones- those factors led to different sound/feel, not forging vs cast.

>

> I have a couple of 252s that belonged to Dicky Pride when he was a tour staffer for Titleist. Would not belive how I got them--- They were in a bag of junky clubs in the trunk of a junked car. That was a weird find that is the same bag I found the 905R driver and Scotty Newport in. What was so weird was they were in a SM Titleist stand bag. Those 4 clubs were the only clubs worth a hoot in the bag. The wedges were stamped DP. I sorta did some research and figured whose maybe they were. I know Dicky and he was down here the next year at the Monday after The Masters event I took them over and he confirmed that they were one of his sets and they were forged. He did not know which set they were as he had several in that line. I told him how I got them and he thought I was shooting him a line of BS especially on the Newport.

 

DP is a good guy, a friend of @Forged4ever , so gotta be alright since we tend to like (and dislike) the same folks ?

[3whacker]

most on here are too young to know who Joe Philips was, but when Wilson Staff was the schnizzle the wedge grinds were JP grinds....then in the 80s-90s is was Roger Cleveland, now its Vokey

[MattyO1984]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Remember, next to putters, wedges are the most used clubs on the PGA Tour. For that reason, Tour players replace wedges multiple times per year. A few players with contracts have been known to replace them every two-three months. However, if a tour player uses forged wedges they are replaced more often because the sole and grooves wear quite fast with excessive use; cast not so much. I played forged for years before switching to Vokey SM6 when they were introduced; still have them in the bag too, even though I practice near daily with the LW.

>

> Last but just as important. Even though wedge grooves wear a good player can still spin the ball. Spin is about how you impact the ball and speed.

 

I heard an interesting clip, I am sure it was with Aaron Dil and he mentioned that for the guys with four wedges in the bag on Tour when it comes to changing them out, as a rough rule it was 60 - 4 times a year, 56 - 3 times, 52 - 2 times and 48 just the once.

[300_yard_drives]

Then you have guys like Vijay and Hideki who would change wedges every week.

>

 

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Remember, next to putters, wedges are the most used clubs on the PGA Tour. For that reason, Tour players replace wedges multiple times per year. A few players with contracts have been known to replace them every two-three months. However, if a tour player uses forged wedges they are replaced more often because the sole and grooves wear quite fast with excessive use; cast not so much. I played forged for years before switching to Vokey SM6 when they were introduced; still have them in the bag too, even though I practice near daily with the LW.

>

> Last but just as important. Even though wedge grooves wear a good player can still spin the ball. Spin is about how you impact the ball and speed.

 

 

[Forged4ever]

> @3whacker said:

> most on here are too young to know who Joe Philips was, but when Wilson Staff was the schnizzle the wedge grinds were JP grinds....then in the 80s-90s is was Roger Cleveland, now its Vokey

 

Hey 3W, I hope the season has been kind to you?

 

Joe Phillips and his wedges(JP) on Tour blew away Bob Vokey and his. One, while Staff was, as you so eloquently stated, the “schnizzle,” with just under 70%, and even into the mid-90’s, when Staff had started their unfocused bullish•t downward spiral, they still had over 50%, where as Vokey’s top penetration ever was a shade under 40%, 39 point somethin, though it’s been a few years since I saw numbers.

 

Secondly, and this reminds me of a funny story with Sam and the wedges, other than given em free custom clubs, fittings and wining & dining em when they were in ChiTown, they didn’t pay em to Play em in the 90’s, cuz even if they wanted to, they were hemorrhaging capital

And didn’t have the $$ to throw around, unlike Titleist(Pre-Vokey) and then the emerging OEMs, which outside of Mizzy on a limited scale, didn’t impact the landscape till post-2000.

 

Though I got to meet Mr. Phillips a few times through Pete & Sam(Pete actually was really good friends with him, much more so than Sam, which was the case with most of the mutual acquaintances in their lives).

 

So it’s the mid-70’s and obviously on the closing holes of the back nine of his competitive career however he still had the ego, mentality and psyche of the 30yo Sam Snead, and he still had some amazing finishes in PGA Tour events, like his recent three year run in the deepest Major of them all, while at the ages of 60, 61 & 62yo(1972-1974), he had finishes of T4, T9 & T3!!!

 

At T3 in THE Deepest Major(I was back then just as it is today?) at SIXTY TWO FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!

 

He figured, and said this repeatedly that had he been able to putt, ole Trevino and the boys wouldn’t have even known who “pasted” em, it woulda been so bad.

 

Don’t tell me how great hogan was??

 

He couldn’t even walk on a green for sh•ts & giggles in his 60’s, much walk on em in a Major!!!

 

Ole benny had better have gotten rid of those tan slacks he loved so much cuz the p•ss stain woulda been a dead five away, lol

 

I’ll always take Sam over hogan?

 

Ok, mental meltdown over?

 

So it’s Sam, Pete & Joe Phillips our to dinner in ChiTown and they’re talkin clubs and Sam, who apparently had had a few rough weeks with his scoring irons(this was 1976-77 according to Pete) and he said that he’d been “approached” by hogan about playing his wedges, as Sam loved his Tour Blade Irons more than anyone in his life, and he mentioned that a financial “incentive” could be arranged, if Sam made the switch.

 

Well, no one, and I mean NO ONE, was payin anyone to Play their clubs, except for Jack, though a few OEMs gave out stock, Mac being one to Jack, and Joe looked at Pete while Sam chirped on about being “appreciated by a Legend” more than the company that he had “given my life to,” ???

 

I’ll always remember that quote cuz Pete could

never ever tell this story without cracking up when he thought back to Sam sitting there saying that, when Sam was possibly one of THE most Narcissistic athletes in ANY sport, and outside of his wife and one son, he put himself before everyone, and gave to himself before all others.

 

Well, there were two problems with this scenario that Sam spoke of~

 

As I said, no one was payin anyone, at least nothing of substance and more importantly, hogan was stone cold, one of the cheapest financial misers, if not THE most miserly, Player on Tour, and there was no friggin way that he was Payin ANYONE to play his clubs, especially just TWO CLUBS, cuz that’s all the wedges anyone carries back in the day.

 

Secondly, and both men knew this, especially Pete, though Sam always played the foil when Hogan had made cutting mean and sh•tty comments regarding his intellect and especially course management skills, and though Sam laughed it off publicly and up to his dying day spoke of hogan as his “big brother,” he carried a deep seeded resentment for hogan, and I witnessed a few derogatory comments over the years, for the thing that Sam was most sensitive about was the image when he first hit the Tour of him being a “back hills hay seed,” and hogan Played off of that, more as a way to move Sam off of his game mentally for the times when they would end up head to head on Sunday afternoon. Early on Pete would remind Sam of this ad nauseam before he dealt with it appropriately.

 

The bottom line to all of Sam’s bloviating about benny, benny’s wedges and this supposed money was that Sam was full of sh•t and both men knew it, lol

 

Joe said that he would take their conversation back to ChiTown, talk to the powers that be and then get back to Sam, and the evening went on.

 

As was usually the case, and both men knew this, Sam would forget about the conversation, and life would go on, and he would Play Staff wedges(and irons) through his last swing(which I happened to have been present for)

 

Another worthless story??

 

Yep, JP’s wedges were THE Sh•t!!

 

Thanks for posting 3W?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

RP

[Forged4ever]

Apologies if any typos as I’m unable to edit my posts~

 

I really like this new set-up

 

It’s definitely a “members-first” move

 

Cheers?

RP

[QuigleyDU]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @Mitchell said:

> > > @Soloman1 said:

> > >

> > > Vokey wedges for consumers in the US are cast.

> > >

> > > Tour players are usually using Vokey heads from Japan, which are forged.

> >

> > Players on tour are not using Vokey forged heads from Japan, they are using cast parts that are often slightly over target weight to allow grinding, polishing, etc. Have been on tour vans on PGA tour and Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry tours and been fortunate enough to have Aaron Dill make me several wedges over the years, I would consider him a pretty reliable source?

>

> Didn't you get the memo? He has lived in Japan for 25 years and is in the golf industry.

 

You cannot convince some that Japan equipment is not the end all be all of golf equipment. I am sure there is a forged vokey in a tour bag or two out there. I do not doubt that at all. But the vast majority are basically using retail heads the have been fit or customized for them. That is the difference. But they are "basically" the same, just raw, or with specific grinds that meet their individual needs...

[QuigleyDU]

> @mocokid said:

> Scratch wedges are better.

 

sadly gone....

[Pepperturbo]

> @MattyO1984 said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Remember, next to putters, wedges are the most used clubs on the PGA Tour. For that reason, Tour players replace wedges multiple times per year. A few players with contracts have been known to replace them every two-three months. However, if a tour player uses forged wedges they are replaced more often because the sole and grooves wear quite fast with excessive use; cast not so much. I played forged for years before switching to Vokey SM6 when they were introduced; still have them in the bag too, even though I practice near daily with the LW.

> >

> > Last but just as important. Even though wedge grooves wear a good player can still spin the ball. Spin is about how you impact the ball and speed.

>

> I heard an interesting clip, I am sure it was with Aaron Dil and he mentioned that for the guys with four wedges in the bag on Tour when it comes to changing them out, as a rough rule it was 60 - 4 times a year, 56 - 3 times, 52 - 2 times and 48 just the once.

 

That could fit forged wedges but not so much the likes of Vokey. Even with extensive use, my LW is still in great shape.

[mocokid]

> @Forged4ever said:

> > @3whacker said:

> > most on here are too young to know who Joe Philips was, but when Wilson Staff was the schnizzle the wedge grinds were JP grinds....then in the 80s-90s is was Roger Cleveland, now its Vokey

>

> Hey 3W, I hope the season has been kind to you?

>

> Joe Phillips and his wedges(JP) on Tour blew away Bob Vokey and his. One, while Staff was, as you so eloquently stated, the “schnizzle,” with just under 70%, and even into the mid-90’s, when Staff had started their unfocused bullish•t downward spiral, they still had over 50%, where as Vokey’s top penetration ever was a shade under 40%, 39 point somethin, though it’s been a few years since I saw numbers.

>

> Secondly, and this reminds me of a funny story with Sam and the wedges, other than given em free custom clubs, fittings and wining & dining em when they were in ChiTown, they didn’t pay em to Play em in the 90’s, cuz even if they wanted to, they were hemorrhaging capital

> And didn’t have the $$ to throw around, unlike Titleist(Pre-Vokey) and then the emerging OEMs, which outside of Mizzy on a limited scale, didn’t impact the landscape till post-2000.

>

> Though I got to meet Mr. Phillips a few times through Pete & Sam(Pete actually was really good friends with him, much more so than Sam, which was the case with most of the mutual acquaintances in their lives).

>

> So it’s the mid-70’s and obviously on the closing holes of the back nine of his competitive career however he still had the ego, mentality and psyche of the 30yo Sam Snead, and he still had some amazing finishes in PGA Tour events, like his recent three year run in the deepest Major of them all, while at the ages of 60, 61 & 62yo(1972-1974), he had finishes of T4, T9 & T3!!!

>

> At T3 in THE Deepest Major(I was back then just as it is today?) at SIXTY TWO FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!

>

> He figured, and said this repeatedly that had he been able to putt, ole Trevino and the boys wouldn’t have even known who “pasted” em, it woulda been so bad.

>

> Don’t tell me how great hogan was??

>

> He couldn’t even walk on a green for sh•ts & giggles in his 60’s, much walk on em in a Major!!!

>

> Ole benny had better have gotten rid of those tan slacks he loved so much cuz the p•ss stain woulda been a dead five away, lol

>

> I’ll always take Sam over hogan?

>

> Ok, mental meltdown over?

>

> So it’s Sam, Pete & Joe Phillips our to dinner in ChiTown and they’re talkin clubs and Sam, who apparently had had a few rough weeks with his scoring irons(this was 1976-77 according to Pete) and he said that he’d been “approached” by hogan about playing his wedges, as Sam loved his Tour Blade Irons more than anyone in his life, and he mentioned that a financial “incentive” could be arranged, if Sam made the switch.

>

> Well, no one, and I mean NO ONE, was payin anyone to Play their clubs, except for Jack, though a few OEMs gave out stock, Mac being one to Jack, and Joe looked at Pete while Sam chirped on about being “appreciated by a Legend” more than the company that he had “given my life to,” ???

>

> I’ll always remember that quote cuz Pete could

> never ever tell this story without cracking up when he thought back to Sam sitting there saying that, when Sam was possibly one of THE most Narcissistic athletes in ANY sport, and outside of his wife and one son, he put himself before everyone, and gave to himself before all others.

>

> Well, there were two problems with this scenario that Sam spoke of~

>

> As I said, no one was payin anyone, at least nothing of substance and more importantly, hogan was stone cold, one of the cheapest financial misers, if not THE most miserly, Player on Tour, and there was no friggin way that he was Payin ANYONE to play his clubs, especially just TWO CLUBS, cuz that’s all the wedges anyone carries back in the day.

>

> Secondly, and both men knew this, especially Pete, though Sam always played the foil when Hogan had made cutting mean and sh•tty comments regarding his intellect and especially course management skills, and though Sam laughed it off publicly and up to his dying day spoke of hogan as his “big brother,” he carried a deep seeded resentment for hogan, and I witnessed a few derogatory comments over the years, for the thing that Sam was most sensitive about was the image when he first hit the Tour of him being a “back hills hay seed,” and hogan Played off of that, more as a way to move Sam off of his game mentally for the times when they would end up head to head on Sunday afternoon. Early on Pete would remind Sam of this ad nauseam before he dealt with it appropriately.

>

> The bottom line to all of Sam’s bloviating about benny, benny’s wedges and this supposed money was that Sam was full of sh•t and both men knew it, lol

>

> Joe said that he would take their conversation back to ChiTown, talk to the powers that be and then get back to Sam, and the evening went on.

>

> As was usually the case, and both men knew this, Sam would forget about the conversation, and life would go on, and he would Play Staff wedges(and irons) through his last swing(which I happened to have been present for)

>

> Another worthless story??

>

> Yep, JP’s wedges were THE Sh•t!!

>

> Thanks for posting 3W?

>

> Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

> RP

 

Robert, you're the best. And the same with JP wedges. Back in the day you wanted a great wedge, whatever the age. Guy's loved the old R90 originals, anything Wilson Staff, and didn't trade them in every 2 mos. I think Lee pulled a Helen Hicks SW out of a used club bag for $5, and won one of his 2 Opens (British that is). LOL, now send me my new Vokey 46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62 please. Honestly as things are going, that will be the tour pro bag make up of the future, plus the bomber and putter, and maybe one hybrid.

[Pepperturbo]

> @300_yard_drives said:

> Then you have guys like Vijay and Hideki who would change wedges every week.

> >

>

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Remember, next to putters, wedges are the most used clubs on the PGA Tour. For that reason, Tour players replace wedges multiple times per year. A few players with contracts have been known to replace them every two-three months. However, if a tour player uses forged wedges they are replaced more often because the sole and grooves wear quite fast with excessive use; cast not so much. I played forged for years before switching to Vokey SM6 when they were introduced; still have them in the bag too, even though I practice near daily with the LW.

> >

> > Last but just as important. Even though wedge grooves wear a good player can still spin the ball. Spin is about how you impact the ball and speed.

>

>

 

I know about Vijay and Cleveland. An old acquaintance worked as a designer for Cleveland. Not sure what the benefit could be changing wedges so often. Can't imagine Vijay does that much damage to them.

[Krt22]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @Mitchell said:

> > > > @Soloman1 said:

> > > >

> > > > Vokey wedges for consumers in the US are cast.

> > > >

> > > > Tour players are usually using Vokey heads from Japan, which are forged.

> > >

> > > Players on tour are not using Vokey forged heads from Japan, they are using cast parts that are often slightly over target weight to allow grinding, polishing, etc. Have been on tour vans on PGA tour and Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry tours and been fortunate enough to have Aaron Dill make me several wedges over the years, I would consider him a pretty reliable source?

> >

> > Didn't you get the memo? He has lived in Japan for 25 years and is in the golf industry.

>

> You cannot convince some that Japan equipment is not the end all be all of golf equipment. I am sure there is a forged vokey in a tour bag or two out there. I do not doubt that at all. But the vast majority are basically using retail heads the have been fit or customized for them. That is the difference. But they are "basically" the same, just raw, or with specific grinds that meet their individual needs...

 

I cannot comment on that, since I have not lived in Japan for 25 years and do not work in the industry, but if I had to choose between the two statements, I would agree and say Mitchell's seems spot on.

[woods991]

Cleveland wedges are in a ton of bags.

[QuigleyDU]

> @woods991 said:

> Cleveland wedges are in a ton of bags.

 

True, and you will see a number of forged cleveland wedges in bags.

[Lagavulin62]

I think I have 3 Vokeys I have never even played with. Still on the roster, just never suited up in a real game.

[mackepa]

> @Soloman1 said:

>

> Vokey wedges for consumers in the US are cast.

>

> Tour players are usually using Vokey heads from Japan, which are forged.

 

 

LOL no they are not.

 

[straightshot7]

Maybe it's changed but the 2008 or 2009 Vokey spin milled wedges I have do not work well on full shots. They feel too light and like they don't have enough mass. The impact feels good but sometimes the ball seems to come out dead, even if it's hit flush. Great around the greens though.

 

My friend gets Tour gear and I swear his Vokey's back in that same time period felt heavier. They might not be forged but they seemed noticeably different than the retail heads I have. That was like 10 years ago though, lol.

[Forged4ever]

> @mackepa said:

> > @Soloman1 said:

> >

> > Vokey wedges for consumers in the US are cast.

> >

> > Tour players are usually using Vokey heads from Japan, which are forged.

>

>

> LOL no they are not.

>

 

Yea, the only two Tour Boys that I know who Play Vokeys, Play cast and I wouldn’t have a clue on the rest.

 

Mitch would know however if I had to lay coin down on this, I’m with Mack, haha?

 

Cheers?

RP

[Forged4ever]

> @mocokid said:

> > @Forged4ever said:

> > > @3whacker said:

> > > most on here are too young to know who Joe Philips was, but when Wilson Staff was the schnizzle the wedge grinds were JP grinds....then in the 80s-90s is was Roger Cleveland, now its Vokey

> >

> > Hey 3W, I hope the season has been kind to you?

> >

> > Joe Phillips and his wedges(JP) on Tour blew away Bob Vokey and his. One, while Staff was, as you so eloquently stated, the “schnizzle,” with just under 70%, and even into the mid-90’s, when Staff had started their unfocused bullish•t downward spiral, they still had over 50%, where as Vokey’s top penetration ever was a shade under 40%, 39 point somethin, though it’s been a few years since I saw numbers.

> >

> > Secondly, and this reminds me of a funny story with Sam and the wedges, other than given em free custom clubs, fittings and wining & dining em when they were in ChiTown, they didn’t pay em to Play em in the 90’s, cuz even if they wanted to, they were hemorrhaging capital

> > And didn’t have the $$ to throw around, unlike Titleist(Pre-Vokey) and then the emerging OEMs, which outside of Mizzy on a limited scale, didn’t impact the landscape till post-2000.

> >

> > Though I got to meet Mr. Phillips a few times through Pete & Sam(Pete actually was really good friends with him, much more so than Sam, which was the case with most of the mutual acquaintances in their lives).

> >

> > So it’s the mid-70’s and obviously on the closing holes of the back nine of his competitive career however he still had the ego, mentality and psyche of the 30yo Sam Snead, and he still had some amazing finishes in PGA Tour events, like his recent three year run in the deepest Major of them all, while at the ages of 60, 61 & 62yo(1972-1974), he had finishes of T4, T9 & T3!!!

> >

> > At T3 in THE Deepest Major(I was back then just as it is today?) at SIXTY TWO FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!

> >

> > He figured, and said this repeatedly that had he been able to putt, ole Trevino and the boys wouldn’t have even known who “pasted” em, it woulda been so bad.

> >

> > Don’t tell me how great hogan was??

> >

> > He couldn’t even walk on a green for sh•ts & giggles in his 60’s, much walk on em in a Major!!!

> >

> > Ole benny had better have gotten rid of those tan slacks he loved so much cuz the p•ss stain woulda been a dead five away, lol

> >

> > I’ll always take Sam over hogan?

> >

> > Ok, mental meltdown over?

> >

> > So it’s Sam, Pete & Joe Phillips our to dinner in ChiTown and they’re talkin clubs and Sam, who apparently had had a few rough weeks with his scoring irons(this was 1976-77 according to Pete) and he said that he’d been “approached” by hogan about playing his wedges, as Sam loved his Tour Blade Irons more than anyone in his life, and he mentioned that a financial “incentive” could be arranged, if Sam made the switch.

> >

> > Well, no one, and I mean NO ONE, was payin anyone to Play their clubs, except for Jack, though a few OEMs gave out stock, Mac being one to Jack, and Joe looked at Pete while Sam chirped on about being “appreciated by a Legend” more than the company that he had “given my life to,” ???

> >

> > I’ll always remember that quote cuz Pete could

> > never ever tell this story without cracking up when he thought back to Sam sitting there saying that, when Sam was possibly one of THE most Narcissistic athletes in ANY sport, and outside of his wife and one son, he put himself before everyone, and gave to himself before all others.

> >

> > Well, there were two problems with this scenario that Sam spoke of~

> >

> > As I said, no one was payin anyone, at least nothing of substance and more importantly, hogan was stone cold, one of the cheapest financial misers, if not THE most miserly, Player on Tour, and there was no friggin way that he was Payin ANYONE to play his clubs, especially just TWO CLUBS, cuz that’s all the wedges anyone carries back in the day.

> >

> > Secondly, and both men knew this, especially Pete, though Sam always played the foil when Hogan had made cutting mean and sh•tty comments regarding his intellect and especially course management skills, and though Sam laughed it off publicly and up to his dying day spoke of hogan as his “big brother,” he carried a deep seeded resentment for hogan, and I witnessed a few derogatory comments over the years, for the thing that Sam was most sensitive about was the image when he first hit the Tour of him being a “back hills hay seed,” and hogan Played off of that, more as a way to move Sam off of his game mentally for the times when they would end up head to head on Sunday afternoon. Early on Pete would remind Sam of this ad nauseam before he dealt with it appropriately.

> >

> > The bottom line to all of Sam’s bloviating about benny, benny’s wedges and this supposed money was that Sam was full of sh•t and both men knew it, lol

> >

> > Joe said that he would take their conversation back to ChiTown, talk to the powers that be and then get back to Sam, and the evening went on.

> >

> > As was usually the case, and both men knew this, Sam would forget about the conversation, and life would go on, and he would Play Staff wedges(and irons) through his last swing(which I happened to have been present for)

> >

> > Another worthless story??

> >

> > Yep, JP’s wedges were THE Sh•t!!

> >

> > Thanks for posting 3W?

> >

> > Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

> > RP

>

> Robert, you're the best. And the same with JP wedges. Back in the day you wanted a great wedge, whatever the age. Guy's loved the old R90 originals, anything Wilson Staff, and didn't trade them in every 2 mos. I think Lee pulled a Helen Hicks SW out of a used club bag for $5, and won one of his 2 Opens (British that is). LOL, now send me my new Vokey 46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62 please. Honestly as things are going, that will be the tour pro bag make up of the future, plus the bomber and putter, and maybe one hybrid.

 

Thanks much Moco, but it’s Richard, d•mit, lolol?

 

You’ve been callin me “Robert” since I came in this damn board??

 

I’m messin with ya, haha

 

Thanks again for the kind words and I hope that you’ve had a great season?

 

My Best,

RICHARD

[SNIPERBBB]

> @straightshot7 said:

> Maybe it's changed but the 2008 or 2009 Vokey spin milled wedges I have do not work well on full shots. They feel too light and like they don't have enough mass. The impact feels good but sometimes the ball seems to come out dead, even if it's hit flush. Great around the greens though.

>

> My friend gets Tour gear and I swear his Vokey's back in that same time period felt heavier. They might not be forged but they seemed noticeably different than the retail heads I have. That was like 10 years ago though, lol.

 

The vokey's I bought last year are plenty heavy. Fitter tried to get me to try the Mizuno T7's when I was getting fitted and they were light to me.

[LeoLeo99]

Great discussion. Forged Vokeys that look identical to cast Vokeys. Sam and Bennie drama.

 

My experience with Vokeys was not good. I hated them. Clank, clank, clank. If they have a sweet spot, I couldn't find it. Much prefer my Jaws and Glide 2.0 wedges.

[mocokid]

> @Forged4ever said:

> > @mocokid said:

> > > @Forged4ever said:

> > > > @3whacker said:

> > > > most on here are too young to know who Joe Philips was, but when Wilson Staff was the schnizzle the wedge grinds were JP grinds....then in the 80s-90s is was Roger Cleveland, now its Vokey

> > >

> > > Hey 3W, I hope the season has been kind to you?

> > >

> > > Joe Phillips and his wedges(JP) on Tour blew away Bob Vokey and his. One, while Staff was, as you so eloquently stated, the “schnizzle,” with just under 70%, and even into the mid-90’s, when Staff had started their unfocused bullish•t downward spiral, they still had over 50%, where as Vokey’s top penetration ever was a shade under 40%, 39 point somethin, though it’s been a few years since I saw numbers.

> > >

> > > Secondly, and this reminds me of a funny story with Sam and the wedges, other than given em free custom clubs, fittings and wining & dining em when they were in ChiTown, they didn’t pay em to Play em in the 90’s, cuz even if they wanted to, they were hemorrhaging capital

> > > And didn’t have the $$ to throw around, unlike Titleist(Pre-Vokey) and then the emerging OEMs, which outside of Mizzy on a limited scale, didn’t impact the landscape till post-2000.

> > >

> > > Though I got to meet Mr. Phillips a few times through Pete & Sam(Pete actually was really good friends with him, much more so than Sam, which was the case with most of the mutual acquaintances in their lives).

> > >

> > > So it’s the mid-70’s and obviously on the closing holes of the back nine of his competitive career however he still had the ego, mentality and psyche of the 30yo Sam Snead, and he still had some amazing finishes in PGA Tour events, like his recent three year run in the deepest Major of them all, while at the ages of 60, 61 & 62yo(1972-1974), he had finishes of T4, T9 & T3!!!

> > >

> > > At T3 in THE Deepest Major(I was back then just as it is today?) at SIXTY TWO FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!

> > >

> > > He figured, and said this repeatedly that had he been able to putt, ole Trevino and the boys wouldn’t have even known who “pasted” em, it woulda been so bad.

> > >

> > > Don’t tell me how great hogan was??

> > >

> > > He couldn’t even walk on a green for sh•ts & giggles in his 60’s, much walk on em in a Major!!!

> > >

> > > Ole benny had better have gotten rid of those tan slacks he loved so much cuz the p•ss stain woulda been a dead five away, lol

> > >

> > > I’ll always take Sam over hogan?

> > >

> > > Ok, mental meltdown over?

> > >

> > > So it’s Sam, Pete & Joe Phillips our to dinner in ChiTown and they’re talkin clubs and Sam, who apparently had had a few rough weeks with his scoring irons(this was 1976-77 according to Pete) and he said that he’d been “approached” by hogan about playing his wedges, as Sam loved his Tour Blade Irons more than anyone in his life, and he mentioned that a financial “incentive” could be arranged, if Sam made the switch.

> > >

> > > Well, no one, and I mean NO ONE, was payin anyone to Play their clubs, except for Jack, though a few OEMs gave out stock, Mac being one to Jack, and Joe looked at Pete while Sam chirped on about being “appreciated by a Legend” more than the company that he had “given my life to,” ???

> > >

> > > I’ll always remember that quote cuz Pete could

> > > never ever tell this story without cracking up when he thought back to Sam sitting there saying that, when Sam was possibly one of THE most Narcissistic athletes in ANY sport, and outside of his wife and one son, he put himself before everyone, and gave to himself before all others.

> > >

> > > Well, there were two problems with this scenario that Sam spoke of~

> > >

> > > As I said, no one was payin anyone, at least nothing of substance and more importantly, hogan was stone cold, one of the cheapest financial misers, if not THE most miserly, Player on Tour, and there was no friggin way that he was Payin ANYONE to play his clubs, especially just TWO CLUBS, cuz that’s all the wedges anyone carries back in the day.

> > >

> > > Secondly, and both men knew this, especially Pete, though Sam always played the foil when Hogan had made cutting mean and sh•tty comments regarding his intellect and especially course management skills, and though Sam laughed it off publicly and up to his dying day spoke of hogan as his “big brother,” he carried a deep seeded resentment for hogan, and I witnessed a few derogatory comments over the years, for the thing that Sam was most sensitive about was the image when he first hit the Tour of him being a “back hills hay seed,” and hogan Played off of that, more as a way to move Sam off of his game mentally for the times when they would end up head to head on Sunday afternoon. Early on Pete would remind Sam of this ad nauseam before he dealt with it appropriately.

> > >

> > > The bottom line to all of Sam’s bloviating about benny, benny’s wedges and this supposed money was that Sam was full of sh•t and both men knew it, lol

> > >

> > > Joe said that he would take their conversation back to ChiTown, talk to the powers that be and then get back to Sam, and the evening went on.

> > >

> > > As was usually the case, and both men knew this, Sam would forget about the conversation, and life would go on, and he would Play Staff wedges(and irons) through his last swing(which I happened to have been present for)

> > >

> > > Another worthless story??

> > >

> > > Yep, JP’s wedges were THE Sh•t!!

> > >

> > > Thanks for posting 3W?

> > >

> > > Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

> > > RP

> >

> > Robert, you're the best. And the same with JP wedges. Back in the day you wanted a great wedge, whatever the age. Guy's loved the old R90 originals, anything Wilson Staff, and didn't trade them in every 2 mos. I think Lee pulled a Helen Hicks SW out of a used club bag for $5, and won one of his 2 Opens (British that is). LOL, now send me my new Vokey 46,48,50,52,54,56,58,60,62 please. Honestly as things are going, that will be the tour pro bag make up of the future, plus the bomber and putter, and maybe one hybrid.

>

> Thanks much Moco, but it’s Richard, d•mit, lolol?

>

> You’ve been callin me “Robert” since I came in this **** board??

>

> I’m messin with ya, haha

>

> Thanks again for the kind words and I hope that you’ve had a great season?

>

> My Best,

> RICHARD

 

Oh man, sorry Richard, thanks for more great Sam stories.

[OldTomMorris]

Saw an interesting segment on Golfing World on Sky Sports Golf where JT was talking about his wedges setup and specifically Vokey.

 

With two of his wedges being tweaked to .5 degrees, 47.5 and 52.5. This is rarely reflected in the WITB although it noticeable via stampings on the two wedges.