Custom putter update - prototype pics

[eb314]

The project is coming along - here are pics of the latest sketch plus physical pictures from my rapid prototype (3d printed, plastic).

 

There are still some limitations with milling from steel, but hopefully I'll be able to get this done. Comments on the design are welcome - the point of this project is mostly for fun, however I did put a lot of time into getting the specs right. I wanted an anser-style putter, but with more precise lines and a clean overall look. Below are the specs:

 

Material - 303 stainless (pictured in plastic)

Weight - 332 grams (about 50 grams in plastic)

Lie - 71 degrees

Loft - 4 degrees

Sole draft - 1 degree

Offset - full shaft

CG - center cavity (rear cutout)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spryevo]

Very nice model, a great effort. What CAD software did you use?

You could print it in stainless with Direct Metal Laser Sintering. It's probably currently cost prohibitive, but in a few years, it could be affordable. The technology is developing rapidly.

[eb314]

I used Autodesk Inventor.

DMLS would be awesome. If the prices come down on this technology in the future to the point where anybody can draw up a putter and have it built, that would be a lot of fun.

[Graymulligan]

Looks cool, but it looks like there's a bug or something in your CAD software that's mirroring everything. It clearly printed 180 degrees from where it should be.

[heinenkugels]

Great looking putter...

Keep us updated!

[eb314]

[quote name='Graymulligan' timestamp='1364219129' post='6687535']
Looks cool, but it looks like there's a bug or something in your CAD software that's mirroring everything. It clearly printed 180 degrees from where it should be.
[/quote]

I havent been able to solve this glitch yet. I've been dealing with it for a while now.

[Etiger83]

Very cool!!

Is it just me or does the toe "shoulder" and bumper look shorter than normal anser styles? Is the COG centered in the cavity?

Keep us updated with pics

[Silkk]

Can't wait for more updates on this!

[eb314]

[quote name='Etiger83' timestamp='1364254189' post='6693339']
Very cool!!

Is it just me or does the toe "shoulder" and bumper look shorter than normal anser styles? Is the COG centered in the cavity?

Keep us updated with pics
[/quote]

The toe and heel 'muscle' are about 1 inch wide each, and the cavity is about 2 inches. Overall length is a little over 4 inches. The CG is directly in the center of the cavity. When you say bumper, do you mean the rear layer? I agree that this looks thinner. I think the angle down of the mid-layer bumpers is steeper than most I've seen also. My design approach was to get a face shape that I really really liked, and build from there. I didn't measure any retail putters (except for face thickness) because I didn't want to end up copying a design unintentionally.

[spryevo]

[quote name='eb314' timestamp='1364208972' post='6686689']
I used Autodesk Inventor.

DMLS would be awesome. If the prices come down on this technology in the future to the point where anybody can draw up a putter and have it built, that would be a lot of fun.
[/quote]

Agreed, one future of high-end putters could be:
1. Tell designers like us what you want
2. We model it
3. Hit print
4. Face-mill & clean-up
5. Deliver

DMLS used to be unbearable. Now it's just expensive. Maybe reasonable in 5 years?
I'm an optimist

[TheDominator273]

Are you planning to mill completely or make a mold of your plastic model and cast it and just mill the face?

[eb314]

I will mill from a solid block. No updates on manufacturing yet

[TXBogey]

You can't go wrong with the anser style. It's overdone but for a reason. Everyone has one or two!!

modular, welded or fixed hosel? milling yourself or taking it to a shop?

Keep us posted on progress

[eb314]

[quote name='TXBogey' timestamp='1364709108' post='6729409']
You can't go wrong with the anser style. It's overdone but for a reason. Everyone has one or two!!

modular, welded or fixed hosel? milling yourself or taking it to a shop?

Keep us posted on progress
[/quote]

The hosel is drawn currently to be milled in a single piece. 303 is easy to machine but not easy to weld. If the material price is too high, I'll either have to figure out a way to machine the hosel separately and attach, or ditch the hosel completely. I will be getting the work done as I don't have access to a CNC mill (or a hand mill for that matter).

[moocherpix]

[quote name='eb314' timestamp='1364832893' post='6737039']

The hosel is drawn currently to be milled in a single piece. 303 is easy to machine but not easy to weld. If the material price is too high, I'll either have to figure out a way to machine the hosel separately and attach, or ditch the hosel completely. I will be getting the work done as I don't have access to a CNC mill (or a hand mill for that matter).
[/quote]

I have a touch of machine shop experience and had to ask where you are getting your info on the stainless steel. I have watched a ton of 303 SS pieces being welded and the gentleman doing the welding loves the way that 303 welds. He has never once complained due to difficulty or flow of metal.
On the reverse side, machining 303 is a bear, when compared to 1018 CR Steel. That part I have experience in and have been on the giving end of a lot of verbal rips on "Why does this have to be stainless?"
I guess I am saying that work in the field has proven just the opposite to me, when compared to what you are stating.
As for milling from one-piece, TONS of chips and a lot of wasted metal. Long cut time, a lot of wear on tooling and you are very right when you say that it adds up on the shop expense end in a hurry, at $65-100/hour, depending on the shop.
It sounds like you are taking your time and doing as much research as you can. Keep it up and you'll have another LH Anser 2 in no time.
Best of Luck,
Nick

[eb314]

Nick - are you sure you aren't talking about 304? 303 is classified as free-machining steel due to the addition of sulfur, but this addition also makes it "unweldable". I use quotes because of course it is possible to weld, but the welds will not be strong or able to bear any significant strain because of the sulfur. This may be fine for a putter hosel, but I would probably rather design a bolt-on or other method of attachment if I'm doing a separately machine hosel in 303. 304 on the other hand is a nightmare to machine, but welds better. I'm also considering some carbon steels. It will all come down to what the machine guys think the costs will be. My info comes from metallurgy websites/machining forums.

I think 12L14 sounds like it could be a good choice for carbon steel - very soft and supposedly very easy to machine. Probably cheaper than 303 also, but again it's not stainless. I also hardly ever see 12L14 putters for some reason. I haven't figured out why yet.

[Stu-Co]

[color=#008000]Awesome post - just what I love to see! I'll have to post some pics of the 3D printed protos I had made. [/color]

[golfluvzme]

[quote name='eb314' timestamp='1364842870' post='6738229']
Nick - are you sure you aren't talking about 304? 303 is classified as free-machining steel due to the addition of sulfur, but this addition also makes it "unweldable". I use quotes because of course it is possible to weld, but the welds will not be strong or able to bear any significant strain because of the sulfur. This may be fine for a putter hosel, but I would probably rather design a bolt-on or other method of attachment if I'm doing a separately machine hosel in 303. 304 on the other hand is a nightmare to machine, but welds better. I'm also considering some carbon steels. It will all come down to what the machine guys think the costs will be. My info comes from metallurgy websites/machining forums.

I think 12L14 sounds like it could be a good choice for carbon steel - very soft and supposedly very easy to machine. Probably cheaper than 303 also, but again it's not stainless. I also hardly ever see 12L14 putters for some reason. I haven't figured out why yet.
[/quote]

I have to side with Nick on this one. I have done numerous putters from 303 Stainless, all using welded necks of various shapes. The 303 welds great using a 308 SS Tig rod and they are plenty strong. 304, in my experience is more difficult to machine if you do not have a good coolant system in place. It is very possible to heat harden the 304 and for that reason, I have stayed away. Once was enough for me.
Milling the putters from the 303 SS is better stated as "different" than 1018 or 11L17, not necessarily more difficult. The 303 almost requires that you use carbide tooling, slower cutter speed and feed rate, but you can still take decent bites. I will agree that the end results are worth the added effort, but make no mistake, it is far from "easier to machine".
When you talk about the welding aspect, you will find that the 12L14 or 11L17 leaded steels may be less than perfect for your average welder to work with. The lead content is not a benefit when it comes to welding, although it IS a nice way of being much easier on your tooling.
Only speaking from what experience I have with the metals being discussed and am certainly not an expert. I think when you put your ideas into practice, you will see what we are saying about 303 SS. It is not painfully hard to work with, but it is much more difficult than a simple 1018 CR Steel. Keep your carbide cutters sharp and plan on a little slower mill time and you'll have a lot of fun.
LaMont in AZ

[eb314]

Thanks LaMont. I was referring to 303 being easier to machine than 304, not compared to 12L14 or other soft carbon steel with lead content. Interesting about the tooling requirements and feed speeds. This may push 303 out of reach financially, but we'll see. I'm still waiting on production costing (and material cost). Most of the online steel sources I've found are ridiculously overpriced, in the realm of $300 for a sizable block of 303, enough to produce a single putter head.

I've seen Bettinardi's milling process, and they're milled from a single block as well, hosel included, so I know there's no way they're paying anywhere near those rates on steel stock. I've also seen some milling videos online where they're using L shaped stock for less waste on the hosel. What types of prices did you find on your putters LaMont?

[driveandputtmachine]

> @eb314 said:

> Thanks LaMont. I was referring to 303 being easier to machine than 304, not compared to 12L14 or other soft carbon steel with lead content. Interesting about the tooling requirements and feed speeds. This may push 303 out of reach financially, but we'll see. I'm still waiting on production costing (and material cost). Most of the online steel sources I've found are ridiculously overpriced, in the realm of $300 for a sizable block of 303, enough to produce a single putter head.

>

>

>

> I've seen Bettinardi's milling process, and they're milled from a single block as well, hosel included, so I know there's no way they're paying anywhere near those rates on steel stock. I've also seen some milling videos online where they're using L shaped stock for less waste on the hosel. What types of prices did you find on your putters LaMont?

 

I’m not LaMont, but we did own Sunset Beach together.....so here it goes.

 

303 is a bit easier to machine than 304, but not enough with most to make a “big” difference. You are buying a single block so of course it’s going to be expensive. Buying in bulk lowers pricing considerably. Buying in quantites LaMont or Lumpy or Byron does will be cheaper than what you get, and what the big guys pay is even less.

 

Betti owns their machines, and buys metal (not just for putters) in big bulk quantities, so a comparison to what they “pay” and what you would pay are not even worthwhile. Scotty, who doesn’t mill his pwn putters is not a comparison either because they make 1,000s upon 1000’s of putters per year, again bulk use of a machine. When a CNC outfit prices something they base it off of amount of total time you will be using the machine. While milling does cause wear and tear, that is minuscule compared to the cost of the machine. Therefore the more hours you keep their machine(s) running and getting towards paying them off or adding to coffers to be able to replace the machine, the lower the cost per piece will be.

 

This is a problem almost all putter makers run into. The smaller guys don’t mill in bulk like Scotty or even EVNroll, therefore their cost per piece is much higher, in some cases much much higher, plus they do tons of hand work on each putter. Custom guys make far less per putter than The big guys you see in your local retailer. Small guys don’t do it to get rich or make a bunch of money (well there may be one or two that do :) ) but overall guys like Byron, LaMont, Lumpy, and others are doing it because they love what they do.