Shorter backswing for better... everything?

 mvhoffman ·  
mvhoffmanmvhoffman MikeyNEPAMembers  1725WRX Points: 221Handicap: 10Posts: 1,725 Platinum Tees
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I’m convinced a shorter backswing improves everything. Contact speed through the ball, control, balance, etc.

Thoughts?

Posted:
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  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • justasgoodjustasgood Without Tempo, you are just a hacker. Members  3158WRX Points: 755Handicap: I.Q.Posts: 3,158 Titanium Tees
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    Longer swing = Longer pain free swinging for years.

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  • oikos1oikos1 Members  2786WRX Points: 558Posts: 2,786 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @justasgood said:

    Longer swing = Longer pain free swinging for years.

    Interesting. Is this just your personal experience or do you have data that confirms this?

    Posted:
  • Coy MCoy M OG Baby Members  1201WRX Points: 122Posts: 1,201 Platinum Tees
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    Like the user above me stated, it all depends on your current back swing. I never thought my back-swing was long but after a online lesson I learned it was long compared to my hip turn. It all stemmed from my take away and now if I feel my right elbow (right handed player) lift or separate from my body I know I'm getting too long. And like you mentioned when I feel "short" I hit the ball in the middle of the club face a lot more consistent and in return it goes further than before.

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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers  5877WRX Points: 1,443Posts: 5,877 Titanium Tees
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    I think we all have our own natural internal sense of rhythm/tempo/timing...some short & quick, some long and languid, many in between. It's probably best to dance with the gal you brought

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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21478WRX Points: 5,443Posts: 21,478 ClubWRX
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    On -, @mvhoffman said:

    I’m convinced a shorter backswing improves everything. Contact speed through the ball, control, balance, etc.

    Thoughts?

    Maybe for you.

    Shorter than whatever is too long for anyone is better, but that doesn't mean "shorter" is the recipe for everyone just because it is shorter.

    Posted:
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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2218WRX Points: 863Posts: 2,218 Platinum Tees
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    Shorter arm swing and more hip and shoulder turn.

    Food for thought >

    Posted:
  • hurley999shurley999s Members  760WRX Points: 366Posts: 760 Golden Tee
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    It needs to be the right length relative to your turn. For some it will be short, some long, and some in between. What I do know is if you have a longer arm swing relative to turn or a shorter arm swing with a fuller turn, you’ll likely be out of sync - problems ahead.

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  • mvhoffmanmvhoffman Mikey NEPAMembers  1725WRX Points: 221Handicap: 10Posts: 1,725 Platinum Tees
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    This is just MY opinion for MY game...

    With a longer swing I have always had issues with re-gripping with my left hand before starting my downswing. I had always thought grip size was the issue until recently I noticed that my timing was off and I was re-gripping a lot. My consistency was horrible, ball flight unpredictable, etc. I paid some attention to my swing when I was hitting the ball really good and I realized that I was more controlled with a shorter feeling back swing. I'm going to be practicing that feeling over the fast approaching winter here in the Northeast and hope to come out of the gates swinging in 2020.

    Posted:
    Driver - Mizuno ST 180 11.5u* w Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60g S Shaft
                                                          Aldila RIP Phenom 70g X Shaft
                                                          Aldila NV 65 Green 65g S Shaft tipped 3/4in
    Fairway wood - 2015 Callaway Great Big Bertha 18* w Aldilla NV 75g S shaft
    Hybrid - Adams Pro Hybrid @ 20* w Aldilla NV 105g S shaft
    Irons/Wedges - Ping i25 4-LW w Ping CFS Stiff shafts
    Putter - Bastain Milled Flow Neck Fusion Golf Prototype w UST FF shaft @ 33"
    Ball - Callaway SuperSoft/SuperHot / Callaway Chrome Soft X
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  • justasgoodjustasgood Without Tempo, you are just a hacker. Members  3158WRX Points: 755Handicap: I.Q.Posts: 3,158 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @oikos1 said:

    On -, @justasgood said:

    Longer swing = Longer pain free swinging for years.

    Interesting. Is this just your personal experience or do you have data that confirms this?

    I think it has been well debated that players with longer, fluid swings have a longer trouble free career.

    I’m 57 and have a very long swing(John Daly long) and I have never had any health issues from golf.

    Ernie Els, Phil, Vijay and many others have had relatively issue free careers(regarding Golf injuries)

    There have been many topics discussing this very issue.

    Posted:
  • oikos1oikos1 Members  2786WRX Points: 558Posts: 2,786 Titanium Tees
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    Vijay has had chronic back pain as he has aged. Fred couples is the poster boy for back pain. How about Davis Love III?

    I'm sure there are plenty of players with short back swings who play pain free.

    Posted:
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  • rwc356rwc356 Chicago, IllinoisMembers  425WRX Points: 149Handicap: 12Posts: 425 Greens
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    For me, its always been to try and stop the backswing when my shoulders stop turning. If I do that, I tend to stay in balance and keep my posture, if I try to lengthen the backswing then I tend to stand up and the swing goes to

    On -, @#&*. As others have said, each persons ideal backswing length is different. Play what works.
    Posted:
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  • gentlesgentles Members  2084WRX Points: 231Posts: 2,084 Platinum Tees
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    I've been working for years to try and lengthen my backswing via a bigger hip and shoulder turn. My flaw is to not turn the hips and not extend the spine, and end up hitting it thin and in-to-out. The shorter my swing is the worse my ballstriking is... as a few others have eluded to there is more to it than just where your arms stop moving on the way back. JB Holmes makes a massive turn and has a short swing and bombs it, yet Corey Pavin went well past parrallel without much in the way of hip turn.

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9282WRX Points: 2,916Posts: 9,282 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @juststeve said:

    My thought is that a shorter back swing will improve everything if you back swing is too long to begin with. Some people need a shorter swing, some people need a longer swing, some people have it just right.

    Steve

    Exactly. If it's too long, you might not have enough time to get everything in order, if it's too short you might not have enough time to get everything in order. Cant just say short/long without looking at the parts either. Full hip turn, full shoulder turn, no arm over run is the model

    Posted:
  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members  1938WRX Points: 407Posts: 1,938 Platinum Tees
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    I agree.... but I forgot to use a shorter back swing this weekend and kept trying to figure what was wrong and I finally remembered 2 days later hahaha

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  • CRAFTYLEFTY20CRAFTYLEFTY20 Members  88WRX Points: 78Posts: 88 Fairways
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    I played a few rounds earlier in the year with a shorter backswing and had pretty good success. To me it seemed like a lots less could go wrong with a shorter swing. I also didn’t loose any distance because the shorter backswing created more lag. Not sure why I went away from it but might give it another go next year.

    Posted:
  • wobgonwobgon Members  7985WRX Points: 775Posts: 7,985 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mvhoffman said:

    Well, the short swing worked... first ever under par! Ball is signed by the 3 guys I played with.

    You had the guys you where playing with sign the ball?

    Posted:
  • mvhoffmanmvhoffman Mikey NEPAMembers  1725WRX Points: 221Handicap: 10Posts: 1,725 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @wobgon said:

    On -, @mvhoffman said:

    Well, the short swing worked... first ever under par! Ball is signed by the 3 guys I played with.

    You had the guys you where playing with sign the ball?

    As witnesses, just like signing the score card.

    Posted:
    Driver - Mizuno ST 180 11.5u* w Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60g S Shaft
                                                          Aldila RIP Phenom 70g X Shaft
                                                          Aldila NV 65 Green 65g S Shaft tipped 3/4in
    Fairway wood - 2015 Callaway Great Big Bertha 18* w Aldilla NV 75g S shaft
    Hybrid - Adams Pro Hybrid @ 20* w Aldilla NV 105g S shaft
    Irons/Wedges - Ping i25 4-LW w Ping CFS Stiff shafts
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    Ball - Callaway SuperSoft/SuperHot / Callaway Chrome Soft X
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  • MojoEdMojoEd Members  190WRX Points: 93Posts: 190 Fairways
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    On -, @rwc356 said:

    For me, its always been to try and stop the backswing when my shoulders stop turning. ....

    That’s my hard to beat bad habit. It would be good to get a teacher’s perspective, but I bet what most people feel is a “short backswing” is actually a complete shoulder turn and back swing. For me, continuing my backswing after shoulder turn is complete only results in a broken left elbow, decreased width and a bad time.

    Posted:
  • ChazbChazb Members  1005WRX Points: 140Posts: 1,005 Platinum Tees
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    The shorter swing works for me,I get more solid contact longer drives and much more accuracy.

    Posted:
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  • mvhoffmanmvhoffman Mikey NEPAMembers  1725WRX Points: 221Handicap: 10Posts: 1,725 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @MojoEd said:

    On -, @rwc356 said:

    For me, its always been to try and stop the backswing when my shoulders stop turning. ....

    That’s my hard to beat bad habit. It would be good to get a teacher’s perspective, but I bet what most people feel is a “short backswing” is actually a complete shoulder turn and back swing. For me, continuing my backswing after shoulder turn is complete only results in a broken left elbow, decreased width and a bad time.

    Ed, you hit the nail on the head. I was going to comment and elaborate that what I meant by "short" swing is that when I feel that I have stopped turning, instead of continuing and breaking down as you have said, just committing to my downswing and going. This has given me the opportunity to stay more in balance and more in control of my swing.

    Posted:
    Driver - Mizuno ST 180 11.5u* w Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60g S Shaft
                                                          Aldila RIP Phenom 70g X Shaft
                                                          Aldila NV 65 Green 65g S Shaft tipped 3/4in
    Fairway wood - 2015 Callaway Great Big Bertha 18* w Aldilla NV 75g S shaft
    Hybrid - Adams Pro Hybrid @ 20* w Aldilla NV 105g S shaft
    Irons/Wedges - Ping i25 4-LW w Ping CFS Stiff shafts
    Putter - Bastain Milled Flow Neck Fusion Golf Prototype w UST FF shaft @ 33"
    Ball - Callaway SuperSoft/SuperHot / Callaway Chrome Soft X
    Grips - Golf Pride NDMC Standard
    Putter Grip: Golf Pride SNSR Straight 104
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers  5877WRX Points: 1,443Posts: 5,877 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mvhoffman said:

    On -, @MojoEd said:

    On -, @rwc356 said:

    For me, its always been to try and stop the backswing when my shoulders stop turning. ....

    That’s my hard to beat bad habit. It would be good to get a teacher’s perspective, but I bet what most people feel is a “short backswing” is actually a complete shoulder turn and back swing. For me, continuing my backswing after shoulder turn is complete only results in a broken left elbow, decreased width and a bad time.

    Ed, you hit the nail on the head. I was going to comment and elaborate that what I meant by "short" swing is that when I feel that I have stopped turning, instead of continuing and breaking down as you have said, just committing to my downswing and going. This has given me the opportunity to stay more in balance and more in control of my swing.

    I think you found the secret sauce. Too many allow the trail arm to bend/break down well past 90 degrees which contributes to lead arm bending as well. The result is a narrow at the top and disconnected swing that requires significant compensation to reconnect to the pivot for any chance of a solid strike. If timing is off it's darn near impossible to play well.

    Posted:
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  • juststevejuststeve Members  5186WRX Points: 547Posts: 5,186 Titanium Tees
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    For those of you interested in shortening your swing but having trouble doing it check out Monte's no turn cast drill. For a lot of people the setting of the wrists will produce a reaction that creates a great compact back swing position. Just about the best thing I've seen on WRX.

    Steve

    Posted:
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers  5877WRX Points: 1,443Posts: 5,877 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @juststeve said:

    For those of you interested in shortening your swing but having trouble doing it check out Monte's no turn cast drill. For a lot of people the setting of the wrists will produce a reaction that creates a great compact back swing position. Just about the best thing I've seen on WRX.

    Steve

    ^^^Yes!^^^

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    Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
    Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4060WRX Points: 751Posts: 4,060 Titanium Tees
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    I don’t think it has much to do with anything in terms of improvement in anything. There’s no proof that shorter swings will make you more accurate or precise and certainly no evidence that you’ll generate more club speed. In fact, the latter the physics say that longer swings, all else being equal, will hit the ball much further.

    I think for a player like Finau who generates incredible speed with a short swing and his longer swing just generates off the charts speed, but also off the charts spin rates, I can understand why he would want to shorten his swing. He generates a lot of torque in his swing and giving himself more time to hit the ball may not be feasible for him.

    But, if you’re a fairly normal human being they probably could greatly benefit by adding length to their swing, they just need to know how to properly do it.

    RH

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  • mackepamackepa #TheWRX Members  3753WRX Points: 295Posts: 3,753 Titanium Tees
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    So like others have stated I think the correct swing length for you is going to be relative to your turns. Finau is an excellent example of a player that makes a very full turn and creates a lot of depth in his swing but his overall position of his shaft at P4 is in a shorter position. A shorter swing along with limited shoulder and hip turns will likely lead to a lack of depth thus limiting speed and also the possibility of poor path into impact.

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  • juststevejuststeve Members  5186WRX Points: 547Posts: 5,186 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @RichieHunt said:

    I don’t think it has much to do with anything in terms of improvement in anything. There’s no proof that shorter swings will make you more accurate or precise and certainly no evidence that you’ll generate more club speed. In fact, the latter the physics say that longer swings, all else being equal, will hit the ball much further.

    I think for a player like Finau who generates incredible speed with a short swing and his longer swing just generates off the charts speed, but also off the charts spin rates, I can understand why he would want to shorten his swing. He generates a lot of torque in his swing and giving himself more time to hit the ball may not be feasible for him.

    But, if you’re a fairly normal human being they probably could greatly benefit by adding length to their swing, they just need to know how to properly do it.

    RH

    If what Richie means to say is that longer swing has more distance potential than a shorter swing, I agree. In the real world however distance is the product of club head speed and how that speed is applied to the ball. The majority of golfers I see every day have much to gain simply from hitting the ball better, more on the sweet spot with a nice level angle of attack, than they do by swinging the club a bit faster. I think for many golfers a more controlled swing, that is to say shorter, will result in better contact, more often, and therefore more distance more often.

    Steve

    Posted:
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9282WRX Points: 2,916Posts: 9,282 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mackepa said:

    So like others have stated I think the correct swing length for you is going to be relative to your turns. Finau is an excellent example of a player that makes a very full turn and creates a lot of depth in his swing but his overall position of his shaft at P4 is in a shorter position. A shorter swing along with limited shoulder and hip turns will likely lead to a lack of depth thus limiting speed and also the possibility of poor path into impact.

    Isn’t Finau actually trying to lengthen his swing a tad?

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  • mackepamackepa #TheWRX Members  3753WRX Points: 295Posts: 3,753 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Krt22 said:

    On -, @mackepa said:

    So like others have stated I think the correct swing length for you is going to be relative to your turns. Finau is an excellent example of a player that makes a very full turn and creates a lot of depth in his swing but his overall position of his shaft at P4 is in a shorter position. A shorter swing along with limited shoulder and hip turns will likely lead to a lack of depth thus limiting speed and also the possibility of poor path into impact.

    Isn’t Finau actually trying to lengthen his swing a tad?

    Thats quite possible. i'm not sure what changes he's currently trying to make in his swing. I know he's said that when he gets in trouble it's usually because his swing gets too quick and short. With that being said I think he still has a very interesting move. He has a very big turn but short arm position. Check out the butt end of his shaft at the top of his swing. its past his heels creating a lot of depth and he's able to create some serious speed from there.

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