Any new TM drivers in the works?

[tleader]

> @wheelz said:

> Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

 

Whoa? Ventus a stock shaft??

[TheMoneyShot]

> @wheelz said:

> Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

 

Watered down Ventus shaft?

[mrmikeac]

> @TheMoneyShot said:

> > @wheelz said:

> > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

>

> Watered down Ventus shaft?

 

Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

[getitdaily]

> @KMeloney said:

> Yeah, back in the day you looked for the TP logo on the toe, and you knew that was THE driver to have.

 

My first introduction to speeder shafts...510tp with the 757.

[mBiden2]

> @getitdaily said:

> > @KMeloney said:

> > Yeah, back in the day you looked for the TP logo on the toe, and you knew that was THE driver to have.

>

> My first introduction to speeder shafts...510tp with the 757.

 

Greatest TM driver and shaft combo of all time! I wish I never would’ve sold mine

[jabwind51]

Lots of M5 drivers on TV tonight. Props to TaylorMade finding its way into all the different pros. ? I bet this new one will be great too

[TaylorMade Golf]

Tiger seems to like the M5, shall we just run with that for another season? ;) Or do you wanna see what we got next?

[Trav1989]

> @"TaylorMade Golf" said:

> Tiger seems to like the M5, shall we just run with that for another season? ;) Or do you wanna see what we got next?

 

See what you got next.

[noodle3872]

> @mrmikeac said:

> > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > @wheelz said:

> > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> >

> > Watered down Ventus shaft?

>

> Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

 

There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

[Smitty120]

> @"TaylorMade Golf" said:

> Tiger seems to like the M5, shall we just run with that for another season? ;) Or do you wanna see what we got next?

 

Can’t wait to see what is next. I hope your brand can win me back. A true 750 replacement and new driver will be on my radar for sure! Can TaylorMade Golf get rid of this full Callaway bag I have ended up in? :0

[mrmikeac]

> @noodle3872 said:

> > @mrmikeac said:

> > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > >

> > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> >

> > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

>

> There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

 

 

Right, that’s what I mean...

 

[GoGoErky]

> @noodle3872 said:

> > @mrmikeac said:

> > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > >

> > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> >

> > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

>

> There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

 

When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

[EHolm]

IF they have the Ventus its gonna be a "made for" similiar to how there is Handcrafted and mass produced Hzrdus etc. Still gonna get the average consumer to buy into the hype thinking theyre getting the real deal but this isnt just TM this is every OEM

[GoGoErky]

> @EHolm said:

> IF they have the Ventus its gonna be a "made for" similiar to how there is Handcrafted and mass produced Hzrdus etc. Still gonna get the average consumer to buy into the hype thinking theyre getting the real deal but this isnt just TM this is every OEM

 

There is no difference between handcrafted and non in specs. All shafts from Px other than some small batch all come out of their Asia factory

[Bebsport678]

> @"TaylorMade Golf" said:

> Tiger seems to like the M5, shall we just run with that for another season? ;) Or do you wanna see what we got next?

 

Okkkkkkk I’m listening.........

[noodle3872]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @noodle3872 said:

> > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > >

> > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > >

> > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> >

> > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

>

> When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

 

So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

 

Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

[Valtiel]

> @noodle3872 said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > >

> > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > >

> > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > >

> > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> >

> > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

>

> So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

>

> Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

 

 

Fujikura has a couple times ended up as premium stock offerings IIRC. The Motore 8.8 Tour Spec was a stock Titleist offering at one point and the Atmos Black 6x was one with my Mizuno ST190. They could play the loss leader game to try to claw back some market share from Mitsubishi.

[GoGoErky]

> @noodle3872 said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > >

> > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > >

> > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > >

> > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> >

> > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

>

> So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

>

> Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

 

Don’t know but the even flow shaft aren’t made for and are stock offers in several clubs. The ventus is only a $230 upgrade for ping so it can be had for less than the retail aftermarket price.

[opus_mh]

There could be a revitalization of some sort of burner line. It would be nice if they put out a great bonded head sans adjustment under the $400 price point.

[SUPERG]

For the 2016 driver lineup the stock shafts were decent real deal shafts, then the went straight back to garbage made for > @opus_mh said:

> There could be a revitalization of some sort of burner line. It would be nice if they put out a great bonded head sans adjustment under the $400 price point.

 

THIS, would love a modern bonded driver head that's not a 800 dollar Japanese lightweight version (cough cough epic star). Makes me miss my burner TP

[TheMoneyShot]

> @"TaylorMade Golf" said:

> Tiger seems to like the M5, shall we just run with that for another season? ;) Or do you wanna see what we got next?

 

Got next please! T Dubs will convert:)

[Titletown]

feels like all these big time OEM's should put out new woods every two years. i just can't imagine there being enough of a difference year to year for people to spend another $500+. but they've been doing to for many years so i guess it's working...

[Bebsport678]

When golfers stop buying them, then they’ll adjust their release cycles, but until then...

[GoGoErky]

> @Titletown said:

> feels like all these big time OEM's should put out new woods every two years. i just can't imagine there being enough of a difference year to year for people to spend another $500+. but they've been doing to for many years so i guess it's working...

 

The market will dictate that. But from a brand standpoint yearly releases keep the brand fresh and relevant in consumers minds. It’s why some companies do woods in one release and irons in another, maybe add a color change in between, others release gi clubs one year and players type the next year.

 

 

[Bomber_11]

> @Titletown said:

> feels like all these big time OEM's should put out new woods every two years. i just can't imagine there being enough of a difference year to year for people to spend another $500+. but they've been doing to for many years so i guess it's working...

 

Correct - but the marketing tells you otherwise :D

[driveandputtmachine]

> @noodle3872 said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > >

> > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > >

> > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > >

> > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> >

> > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

>

> So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

>

> Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

 

So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places. So golfworks is making money on it, and is probably required to have a Minimum sales price. I am guessing Golfworks is not making 20 bucks per shaft they sell, for giggles lets say Golfworks pays 200 for the shaft. I am sure they sell a few shafts, but the volume is pretty low. Fitters and others can order factory/manufacturer direct and probably pay about the same price. TM in a stock offering is ordering a lot more. Not just golfworks orders 1,000 and TM orders 5,000. Probably in the neighborhood of GW orders 1,000 and TM orders 200,000 type of discrepancy. Even in an upcharge shaft variable TM orders way more than Golfworks.

 

When you are a manufacturer you have a few "main" costs to recoup. R&D, materials, machines to make product. Sure marketing and a few others are in there, but their marketing budget is way below that of TM or Callaway. Just like anyone else, the more time your machine is running the closer you are to paying it off/having money to order a new better/faster machine. Therefore someone ordering in that type of discrepancy is going to pay way less than half what the other guy is paying. The actual cost for materials for the shaft itself is probably in the neighborhood of 5 bucks, the R&D and machine to make it where most of your costs are sunk for a product.

 

So then the question for TM becomes.....do I want to sell in bulk or for a high price? Um, they want both. So the drivers continue to inch up in costs, 499.99 drivers now. Heads being made in china, at a small price(R&D needs to be recouped as does marketing and a few other items. So the average M5 costs TM (with a Ventus shaft) roughly 250.00(purely a guess). They have concluded through previous releases and market research that using a shaft with X name on it increases volume by X. Using an actual real deal shaft with X name on it costs X+X. Will people like the WRX community not buy enough of them if we know they are watered down, to offset the increase from average Joe golfer Y? I don't know, but I guarantee that TM knows.

 

I guess the long story here is, sure TM can offer a real deal Ventus for the 499.99 price and still make a pile of money. Does the research show they will be more liquid now with watered down shaft vs. real deal, and does watered down possibly hurt their market shares going forward? Those are the questions TM is worried about. The brand for future and the long game. Not only does TM have to think about this release and making money, they have to be sure this release doesn't hurt their market share for future releases.

[Rig14Port]

> @driveandputtmachine said:

> > @noodle3872 said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > >

> > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > >

> > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > >

> > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> >

> > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> >

> > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

>

> So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

 

It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

 

[Djuga06]

> @Rig14Port said:

> > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > >

> > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > >

> > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > >

> > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > >

> > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> >

> > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

>

> It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

>

 

I’m not sure if that’s the case or not, but I AM 100% certain the Atmos Tour Specs have been a $250 upgrade charge in the M3/M4 and M5/M6 lines.

[Rig14Port]

> @Djuga06 said:

> > @Rig14Port said:

> > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > >

> > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > >

> > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > >

> > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > >

> > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> >

> > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> >

>

> I’m not sure if that’s the case or not, but I AM 100% certain the Atmos Tour Specs have been a $250 upgrade charge in the M3/M4 and M5/M6 lines.

 

From other OEM's... Mizuno, Wilson Cortex

[SUPERG]

At this point we just have to live with the "made for", most of us on WRX don't ever by stock at all. Expecting an OEM to put a real deal shaft in is crazy. The days of that are over, adams used to be the champ in that realm. All of them are guilty of it, it may be painted like the real deal but its always weak. Titliest stock stuff is always higher torque than an actual aftermarket shaft, yet tity fan boys rave about the diamana ltd they got. Callaway laughs in ur face with a T800 shaft like people would actually think they got the 400 buck T1100 lol. TM has had crap in the clubs stock since way back, even the TP stuff was always some obscure spin off of a real deal shaft. I know consumers think they deserve to go into a golf shop and leave with a club stock that will blow them away, this aint the case for golfers who actually give a shit about gear.

Love TM, but I'll never hold my breath for the day I can grab a new head for 300 and figure out the shaft on my own.