How many of you are trying single plane swings?

[MountainGoat]

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > I'm more interested in what Bryson does or I should say used to do he now appears to have a lot more of a plane shift at the top where he gets a little bit steeper at the top and then tries to shallow it out

> >

> > Contrary to popular belief, Bryson's swing is not particularly upright. His setup plane matches his impact plane, and his hands set on the setup/impact plane at the top. In these photos, his plane is 65 degrees...pretty much the impact plane of a wedge. His driver plane is 56 degrees. When he first came on tour, his iron plane was 63 degrees, which pretty much matches the lie angle of your average 8-iron. **I can't explain why the lie angles of his irons are so upright.** That never made any sense to me. But, they do not match his swing plane.

> >

>

> Probably because he would stick the toe in the ground if they were any flatter.

The his situation is exactly the opposite. If he swings on a 65 degree plane and plays clubs with a 73 degree lie angle, then the sole of his club is 8 degrees upright at impact.

 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > I'm more interested in what Bryson does or I should say used to do he now appears to have a lot more of a plane shift at the top where he gets a little bit steeper at the top and then tries to shallow it out

> > >

> > > Contrary to popular belief, Bryson's swing is not particularly upright. His setup plane matches his impact plane, and his hands set on the setup/impact plane at the top. In these photos, his plane is 65 degrees...pretty much the impact plane of a wedge. His driver plane is 56 degrees. When he first came on tour, his iron plane was 63 degrees, which pretty much matches the lie angle of your average 8-iron. **I can't explain why the lie angles of his irons are so upright.** That never made any sense to me. But, they do not match his swing plane.

> > >

> >

> > Probably because he would stick the toe in the ground if they were any flatter.

> The his situation is exactly the opposite. If he swings on a 65 degree plane and plays clubs with a 73 degree lie angle, then the sole of his club is 8 degrees upright at impact.

>

>

 

Much closer if you measure straight down from the butt end of the club.

 

 

[MountainGoat]

I measured his plane using video analysis software. It is what I said it is. The protractor in the above photo isn't even close to correctly positioned. Believe what you want, but his plane is not particularly upright, and it doesn't match the stated lie angle of his clubs.

 

The point, however, is that high hands at address do not automatically translate into a steep swing plane. If the previous posters would put their videos into YouTube format, I'd demonstrate that for them using their own swings.

[Ghost of Snead]

> @MountainGoat said:

> I measured his plane using video analysis software. It is what I said it is. The protractor in the above photo isn't even close to correctly positioned. Believe what you want, but his plane is not particularly upright, and it doesn't match the stated lie angle of his clubs.

>

> The point, however, is that high hands at address do not automatically translate into a steep swing plane. If the previous posters would put their videos into YouTube format, I'd demonstrate that for them using their own swings.

 

I don't really care how you measured it - the protractor goes through the ball which is where the clubface is and the right angle drops from the butt of the club which it should.

 

[MountainGoat]

For a correct reading, the bottom "t" of the protractor (the intersection of the horizontal and vertical lines) would have to be positioned on the red line just inside the position of the ball. It's currently positioned just outside his left toe.

 

[Ghost of Snead]

> @MountainGoat said:

> For a correct reading, the bottom "t" of the protractor (the intersection of the horizontal and vertical lines) would have to be positioned on the red line just inside the position of the ball. It's currently positioned just outside his left toe.

>

 

I'll go with what I have ... your red line goes right up the shaft.

 

https://www.hirekogolf.com/how-is-the-lie-of-a-golf-club-measured

 

Tell you what ... Bryson seems pretty accessible on social media. Ask him your question about swing plane / lie angles.

[Soloman1]

shaft droop

[dasams]

> @efdeel said:

> single plane swing or one plane swing are the same.

 

Jim Hardy wrote a book on The Release in which he defined a one plane swing and a two plane swing. In a one plan swing, the club is on the same plane at impact as it was at address. In a two plane swing, the club is more upright at impact relative to the address position. Hogan's swing was a one plane while Bubba's is a two plane.

 

Hardy's one plane / two plane definitions are entirely different from the definition of a single plane swing ala Bryson.

 

[ChaosTheory]

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > For a correct reading, the bottom "t" of the protractor (the intersection of the horizontal and vertical lines) would have to be positioned on the red line just inside the position of the ball. It's currently positioned just outside his left toe.

> >

>

> I'll go with what I have ... your red line goes right up the shaft.

>

> https://www.hirekogolf.com/how-is-the-lie-of-a-golf-club-measured

>

> Tell you what ... Bryson seems pretty accessible on social media. Ask him your question about swing plane / lie angles.

 

If you are not going to put the center of the protractor at the bottom of the hosel, you can make it read any angle you want. Mountain Goat is exactly right.

[grantc79]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > I'm more interested in what Bryson does or I should say used to do he now appears to have a lot more of a plane shift at the top where he gets a little bit steeper at the top and then tries to shallow it out

>

> Contrary to popular belief, Bryson's swing is not particularly upright. His setup plane matches his impact plane, and his hands set on the setup/impact plane at the top. In these photos, his plane is 65 degrees...pretty much the impact plane of a wedge. His driver plane is 56 degrees. When he first came on tour, his iron plane was 63 degrees, which pretty much matches the lie angle of your average 8-iron. I can't explain why the lie angles of his irons are so upright. That never made any sense to me. But, they do not match his swing plane.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

I'm a few inches taller than Bryson and my plane on my irons is 66 so slightly higher than his.

 

Due to my back issues I'm basically setting up almost exactly like Bryson and doing my best to mock his swing. Immediately in my back swing I begin to wrist cock and bring the club up. I slide left fairly early and then rotate hard without an active release of the club. Basically just dragging it through rather than releasing the face.

 

When I struggle its because I lose my posture and begin to rotate with my back inside of my hips which leads to the pivot stalling and then I have to time the hands.

 

Looking at Bryson I don't believe his lie angle is anywhere near 72 degrees. He seems to have a bit flatter swing now than he used to. If you look at the ball position in relationship to his feet there was once a time when it seemed like the ball was very very close to his feet and his swing was crazy upright.

 

Now its just somewhat crazy upright.

[efdeel]

This is my footage of my first day at range with the "right" Moe's swing.

 

I swung single plane from years ago, but last week suddenly I watch again Mo's video and I try : "pull as hard as you can at the top of my back swing". Moe's said many things, but I pick only this one and try it. I am very happy with the result, it was Eureka moment!

 

 

I found out I swing easier with rescue club (Tour Stage 5 rescue/hybrid)

 

For better result (more more easier and more consistent);

I must swing with heavier swing weight, minimum the same as rescue/hybrid club.

 

Cheaper solution : put some lead tape to my woods and driver to make it heavier.

Ideal solution : get fitted for golf clubs (but...my biggest hazard in golf is...cash) :smiley:

 

[MountainGoat]

I'll step out of the Bryson argument for a moment and share my own experience. I've studied single plane swings for 18 years. I was a contributor to the old Single Axis forum. I've read all the books several times and spent upwards of $10,000 on lessons. Two of my teachers actually traveled with Moe Norman and supposedly got the inside story. Interestingly, they had different interpretations of the inside story. I once hit a set of Moe's irons, ones he actually used, not knock-offs. I also read TMG and wrote a review of it on a predecessor to this site. I've studied Hardy's books. I have gigabytes of video files of both myself and others. The only major teacher in this arena who I haven't consulted is Kirk Junge. Perhaps he has the magic sauce.

 

The result is that I never got any version of the swing to work. Furthermore, I've never played with or personally seen anyone who got any of the Moe Norman or Natural Golf versions of the single plane swing to work with the exception of Todd Graves, himself. There are several pros who employ Hardy's methods, however, and my current swing is closer to what Hardy recommends than anyone else. I've concluded that there is nothing particularly special about having your hands high at setup, other than that doing so promotes a flatter wrist position at the top. Regardless of where you start your hands or what swing plane you employ, your impact angle had better match the lie angle of your club or you'll never hit the ball straight.

 

In conclusion, I'm either the dumbest, least talented person on Earth, or the swing is not "easy to learn", and it will not "revolutionize" the game. There are some versions that are easier on your back, however, so there are some health reasons for going in this direction entirely apart from performance issues.

 

 

[dpb5031]

I think the allure of single plane is that our minds grasp the concept as a simpler and more efficient motion to execute.

 

In reality I dont think theres any advantage to it over other tried and true swing types.

[SEP1006]

As some of you have seen I swapped to the De Chambeau method probably 5 - 6 weeks ago and have had great success. I do also watch Kirk Junges videos and follow his theory on the "set up for impact" swing. This too has helped me when I get a little off from time to time.

 

MountainGoat - Don't know what you were referring to ( positive or negative ) when you mentioned Kirk but his method is pretty damm simple to repeat. Also just an FYI I'm not implying you were being negative either but just informative.

[MountainGoat]

> @SEP1006 said:

> MountainGoat - Don't know what you were referring to ( positive or negative ) when you mentioned Kirk but his method is pretty damm simple to repeat. Also just an FYI I'm not implying you were being negative either but just informative.

 

I was just saying that of the various teachers who work in this area, Kirk is the only one I haven't studied in detail. My understanding is that he worked at the Graves facility for a while and then returned to Florida to teach a method that is closer to Dechambeau than Moe Norman. I don't know if Kirk is simply branding his own approach or whether he had some fundamental difference of opinion with Graves. If I had the means and opportunity, I'd like to attend a Junge training session.

 

 

[efdeel]

MY 2ND RANGE SESSION

 

A video says more than words:

 

[HitEmTrue]

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > > I'm more interested in what Bryson does or I should say used to do he now appears to have a lot more of a plane shift at the top where he gets a little bit steeper at the top and then tries to shallow it out

> > > >

> > > > Contrary to popular belief, Bryson's swing is not particularly upright. His setup plane matches his impact plane, and his hands set on the setup/impact plane at the top. In these photos, his plane is 65 degrees...pretty much the impact plane of a wedge. His driver plane is 56 degrees. When he first came on tour, his iron plane was 63 degrees, which pretty much matches the lie angle of your average 8-iron. **I can't explain why the lie angles of his irons are so upright.** That never made any sense to me. But, they do not match his swing plane.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Probably because he would stick the toe in the ground if they were any flatter.

> > The his situation is exactly the opposite. If he swings on a 65 degree plane and plays clubs with a 73 degree lie angle, then the sole of his club is 8 degrees upright at impact.

> >

> >

>

> Much closer if you measure straight down from the butt end of the club.

>

>

>

 

Can’t measure it that way. Put a different size protractor on there and you get a different answer.