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TM Hi-toe = Extremely Unforgiving, but also...


manima1

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So it’s only been a couple months since the Hi-Toe went in the bag, but this club has me completely perplexed.

 

On one hand, this is thing is like cheating from the bunker. I’ve never left a shot in the bunker or thinned one since it’s gone in the bag. That is truly amazing, since I’m NOT a great bunker play by any stretch. It’s almost automatic in the bunker – even from a variety of sand conditions – firm, soft, wet… it handles them all with ease. Additionally, the flop/rescue shot ability can’t be stressed enough- I executed a 25y flop with a bush 2’ in front of the ball and was truly sold on the value of the higher toe for that type of shot right there.

 

On the other hand, this thing is seems to be extremely inconsistent on short pitches and chips. If you don’t strike it perfectly you are punished severely. All shots come out with PLENTY of spin, but trajectory and distance control are awful. Short shots that used to be routine with my SM5 60.08M, are now a challenge. I’m finding myself grabbing the 54.10S in spots where the 60 would work better, just because it’s simply more reliable.

 

However, the value of the bunker and rescue shots is undeniable. There are some rounds where I can never see a bunker and others where I’m living there, so I do need a reliable club from there. Just not sure if that value outweighs the downsides of the club elsewhere.

 

Anyone else find anything similar? With time, has anyone “learned” how to use this club on typical short chips/pitches and developed some consistency? Or is this club just unforgiving on those shots by design?

 

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I mean... I've become a better chipper from simply just grabbing less loft, period. Make a shorter BS and accelerate as normal.... The only time this becomes a problem is in late summer or early fall when the greens really start to dry out and the roll a little more.

 

I've gamed a Hi Toe since... meh idk maybe the summer? So like 3-4 months or so. I find that it was pretty good from more firmer bunkers but when the sand was very fine and fluffy... I'd have to open it up and make it a dinner plate to stop it from digging. I don't love playing really open faced bunker shots, I'm more of a low spin and let it roll guy, so I had to adjust a bit. I haven't taken measurements or anything but I find the sole to have a lot less camber than something like a Glide.

 

I'm not sure if it's more or less forgiving, but I'm sure the CG being moved up and toward the toe has something to do with it a bit.

 

 

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I dont chipnrun with wedges but need dedicated stupid proof get outa bunker wedges...and i sold the Vokey K everyone said ya got to have. Didnt work for me!!!!!!

sm6 58S works and old 2006? SM 54 is still a winner on longer bunker shots. With bunkers if all else fails

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Had a 50, 56 and 60 degree Hi-Toe in the bag, only the 60 remains. I use it almost exclusively for short green side bunker shots where it's been very good. I could never get the 50 degree dialed in on full swings (wanted to go left on me for some reason, the lie seemed off? no idea) and i found i was blading a lot of chips w the 56 (4-way sole) and getting inconsistent responses on chips that weren't thinned, so the SM6 went back in.

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My 60* LW is a Callaway MD/PM with the U-grind, and a high-toe type profile. For selecting my SW, I went back and forth between the MD/PM and the MD3, which won out. Basically, the two ties for sand shots, but the 54* MD3 gave me more consistent touch for pitch shots.

 

The 60* LW is great for certain shots, especially shots off fluffy turf or downhill lies, or quick-stoppers. The 60*, however, doesn't work as well off of shaggy, uneven lies. The 54* MD3 gives more consistent loft and distance from the junk.

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I found mine to be great out of the bunkers as well. After a lot of practice, I got used to my chips coming off the face with a lower trajectory. My chipping actually improved, as I got used to it.

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Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

 

My short game has improved a lot by just simplifying my approach in such a way.

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> @aenemated said:

> Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

>

Too funny. I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with anything other than a 60* wedge. I decided to practice and play exclusively with the 60* for everything 60 yards and closer, including every type of green side bunker shot. Not sure of the wisdom of it but it takes the uncertainty out of a lot of club choices. I think it’s got 6* of bounce.

 

 

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same idea really, just with a different club. I use my 54 degree on 95% of shots from grass inside 95 yards. Have a 58 hi toe that is beautiful from the bunkers, and an occasional shot over an obstacle to a short pin. Otherwise the hi toe is basically a high lofted sandwedge for me.

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> @miles2go said:

> > @aenemated said:

> > Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

> >

> Too funny. I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with anything other than a 60* wedge. I decided to practice and play exclusively with the 60* for everything 60 yards and closer, including every type of green side bunker shot. Not sure of the wisdom of it but it takes the uncertainty out of a lot of club choices. I think it’s got 6* of bounce.

>

>

 

I think that's probably the key - taking ONE and making it your go-to and putting in the time to learn how to use it.

 

When I had as many as 4 wedges, I'd spend so much time just trying to decide which one to hit and how that when I'd finally get to actually hitting the ball, I was so lost in the nonsense that I wasn't even thinking about executing the shot anymore.

 

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I had a PM 60* and the Hi Toe 58*. For short pitches both were good. On full shots, they always wanted to go left. Gone.

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I gamed a set of Hi Toes 50,54,60 for the entire season after playing Vokeys for many years and have a few thoughts on them. First off the 60 has been by far the best. I used to have a issue of having the ball rolling up the face of a 60 degree wedge shot anytime I tried to push it farther than 60 yards or so. The hi toe 60 lower the ball flight and I was able to pinch the golf ball much better on shots of 70 to 80 yards. With the vokeys if I had a 75 yard shot I would just grab the 54. The 54 and 50 Hi toes have been ok. Nothing really stands out to me with these two wedges that make them any better than my old vokeys.

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I put the 58 in my bag this year and around the green it's my go to club . It plays and looks very similar to the ping eye 2 wedges I carried around for decades, it was almost comforting the first time I looked at it. The struggles I had was on more full shots with it. Distance control was brutal, took a lot of practice to get that part dialed in with the wedge.

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I loved my 60* Hi Tor with the ATV grind around the green and in bunkers.

 

Wasnt a fan of it on longer pitches and half to full swings. Think it was the grind and leading edge. Id find it would sometimes want to dig and the leading edge being rounded would mess my alignment.

 

I had a 54 that i loved. So i was gonna get a 60* 4way sole to try but i actually found the tour issue 60* lowbounce grind ajd its fantastic.

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I have the LB version as well which has a c grind. Best wedge > @jasonp87 said:

> I loved my 60* Hi Tor with the ATV grind around the green and in bunkers.

>

> Wasnt a fan of it on longer pitches and half to full swings. Think it was the grind and leading edge. Id find it would sometimes want to dig and the leading edge being rounded would mess my alignment.

>

> I had a 54 that i loved. So i was gonna get a 60* 4way sole to try but i actually found the tour issue 60* lowbounce grind ajd its fantastic.

 

 

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IMO they are great around the greens, but I struggle with distance control on shots from 60+ yards. Just today I had 2 shots that were almost identical in distance and conditions. I felt like I put very similar swings on both and one was 10 yds short and the other was 10 yds long. I’m gonna start hitting those shots with my regular 54* wedge but haven’t had time to practice it yet. But can’t take it out of my bag bc of around greens. It also feels harder than my milled grind wedges

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I picked up a Hi-Toe 60 with ATV grind when they first came out, had my buddy reshaft it with a DG120 S400 Tour Issue and will not part with it.. granted it's my first 60 wedge (always played 50, 54, and 58 in the past) but this thing is like a weapon.. the rare times I get into bunkers I have zero problems getting out and close to the hole with it. I really think that the ATV grind makes a huge difference. Middle of last season I added a 56 Hi-Toe (also full face groves) I haven't had that one reshafted yet, but it seems to work as well. At some point I might replace my 50 MG wedge with a 50 Hi-Toe, but not in a hurry to do so.

But I will add, I've never gamed a Vokey in the last 5-6 years, so they might be good as well.. I had Ping Glide wedges before the Hi-Toe wedges.. and liked those as well.

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> @miles2go said:

> > @aenemated said:

> > Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

> >

> Too funny. I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with anything other than a 60* wedge. I decided to practice and play exclusively with the 60* for everything 60 yards and closer, including every type of green side bunker shot. Not sure of the wisdom of it but it takes the uncertainty out of a lot of club choices. I think it’s got 6* of bounce.

>

>

 

I did the same as you, with the exact setup. 60.06...definitely takes out much of the uncertainty in club choice, but the 6 degree bounce is most crucial for me since it allows me to play a plethora of different shots inside of 70yds and around the greens. The only time I struggled with this setup was when I didn’t practice my short game for a solid 2 months (I was playing so much, and out of pure laziness), that I then started to incorporate my 54.14 SW around the greens bc that 60.06 started looking like a butter knife lol.

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Good stuff here, it sounds like by and large my experience is not that uncommon with these. Still frustrating how inconsistent these can be on longer chips and pitches, but their versatility is really unmatched on the "get out of trouble" shots.

 

Gets me wondering how a similar sole grind to the hi-toe ATV on a MG2 head would work - might get best of both worlds.

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I game 64* Hi Toe and would agree even at 60* I wouldn't play as my regular wedge. That being said, as a specialty club, over trees, out of bunkers, out of thick penalty areas (places I am often) this club warrants a spot in my bag.

 

Sometimes I will try to use on 40-80 yard approaches with inconsistent results.

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From this Rory WITB from August : https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1786731/rory-mcilroy-witb-august-2019/p1 His Hi-Toe's were out. I haven't seen any comments from him since on why he took them out but several on here have commented on difficulty in distance control from 60yds and out. Also not sure if he's put them back in but just wonder if that was his motivation at the time. Wedge control for Rory seems to be a constant subject of discussion on here.

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I just switched this week from the PM Grind 56 to a Ping Glide 3.0. When I was testing for my new wedge, the PM Grind and TM HiToe were nowhere near as consistent for me as the more "traditional" style wedges. Around the green it just seems that without consistent perfect contact the trajectory and spin vary much more from shot to shot with the HiToe and PM grind than with the other wedges I tried. And I am not even talking about huge variances in strike location or poor strikes. The trajectory and spin differences I was seeing when the strike location was only 1/4" different was eye opening.

 

Then today on the course after leaving several chips with the Glide 3.0 short of the hole, I realized that I had been chipping somewhat timidly with the PM Grind 19 that was in my bag because I just never could trust it to always do what I was trying. As the round went on I got more aggressive with my short game and my chips definitely ended in closer proximity on average than they have been for a while now.

 

When I purchased the 56 degree Glide 3.0 I had planned on keeping the PM grind 60 in the bag just because of the versatility, but now I am not so sure. I really thought I loved the high toe designs, but if all of them are as unforgiving as the PM Grind and HiToe, then I just do not have the striking ability needed to consistently pull of the common shots, even if the design does allow me to pull off the occasional open face crazy flop shot.

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  • 10 months later...
On 11/14/2019 at 9:47 PM, 1Mordrid1 said:

I just switched this week from the PM Grind 56 to a Ping Glide 3.0. When I was testing for my new wedge, the PM Grind and TM HiToe were nowhere near as consistent for me as the more "traditional" style wedges. Around the green it just seems that without consistent perfect contact the trajectory and spin vary much more from shot to shot with the HiToe and PM grind than with the other wedges I tried. And I am not even talking about huge variances in strike location or poor strikes. The trajectory and spin differences I was seeing when the strike location was only 1/4" different was eye opening.

 

Then today on the course after leaving several chips with the Glide 3.0 short of the hole, I realized that I had been chipping somewhat timidly with the PM Grind 19 that was in my bag because I just never could trust it to always do what I was trying. As the round went on I got more aggressive with my short game and my chips definitely ended in closer proximity on average than they have been for a while now.

 

When I purchased the 56 degree Glide 3.0 I had planned on keeping the PM grind 60 in the bag just because of the versatility, but now I am not so sure. I really thought I loved the high toe designs, but if all of them are as unforgiving as the PM Grind and HiToe, then I just do not have the striking ability needed to consistently pull of the common shots, even if the design does allow me to pull off the occasional open face crazy flop shot.

What sole grind do you use in the Glide 3.0 56? The Eye2?

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